SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Okay, we are back here on the Enneagram MBA podcast for another episode. I'm your host, Sarah Lynn, and today we are being joined by Demetria January, and she is joining us as a mental health licensed therapist, specifically here in the state of Kentucky and Indiana, which is where we are both from and where we met. And she specializes in anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, and trauma disorders. So we're gonna get into a little bit more of the work that she's doing. And she also identifies as an Enneagram type eight. So we're gonna talk about that. And the other reason why I wanted to have Demetria on is because we met and we will share that story in just a little bit. And when we did, she was doing something completely different in the corporate world. And now she has transitioned into what I'm assuming is a life of passion and purpose. And so I'm really excited to hear some of that and story story unfold. So welcome to the show, Demetria. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. I'm super excited to be here. Okay, so before we get into talking about the Enneagram, I want to know because this is really the first time that we have connected in the last three years officially. We've stayed in touch, kind of, you know, comments, messages here and there on LinkedIn. So give give me an update and the audience, our listeners, a little feel for the type of work that you're doing right now with your mental health practice.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, yeah. So right now I do I currently do independent contracting and it's all strictly telehealth right now. And I contract with two different agencies. Um, I work with ages um 14 and up right now in anxiety, depression, um, trauma. Um, I've been doing it since last February, actually. And um right now, I'm also currently working with a PhD. So a lot of um research is also involved. So I'm really excited right now um to be transitioning into this field um just because I really, like you said, feel like it's something that I'm passionate about and something that I can really um enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

And I want to dig in more to that actual work because I have some questions around anxiety and just, you know, mental health is very much um a I don't want to, is it like a trend or like it's just it's like very people have a lot of awareness around it right now, and which I think is amazing. And so I have lots of questions for you on that. But before we do that, I want to take us back to where we we met, not just because that's where we met, and I love to tell our origin stories, but because you were doing something completely different. So fill us in on what that was and then how you ended up where you are now.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah. So it's actually a really interesting story. So um when we met, I was working um for a financial administrator. Um I was in, I was in quality, I was senior quality actually. Um, and so it's funny, I tell people now, like I'm I'm super nitpicky. And so that's just that's just me as a person. But actually, believe it or not, that's actually helped me in in my field um now. But that transition actually at the time, I was just I honestly was miserable. You know, they wanted you to be like super robotic, and that wasn't something that I enjoyed. Like, I like to have conversations and I like to talk to people, and that wasn't very light, you know, it constantly like emails like, oh Demetria, get back to your place, come back to your station, give back to your desk. And I'm like, oh my gosh, guys, seriously. Um so um at the time I had my bachelor's degree actually in political science. And something that I enjoyed when I was on the political science track was the advocacy portion of it. And so um it actually, I thought I would go into something more political, you know. Um, but my mom was like, my mom actually reminded me um of a time when I was like 16. Actually, I was over a friend's house. I was staying the night, and her family had like a huge like blow up. Like it was like a family, like, like, I don't even know if you could call it a war, but it felt like like such. And um during dinner time, we were all um just sitting at the table and I was like, okay, guys, are we gonna talk about this or not? Like awkward. And literally, like at that moment, it was basically like a freaking family therapy session, you know? And um, and so looking back, I feel like it was something that was always kind of natural to me. Um, how those conversational, how those conversations could turn into um some like someone feeling heard that can turn into this transformative moment in someone's life, you know? And so, so for me, I realized that not only was it a passion, but it was something that came naturally. And so uh my mom actually got a flyer in the mail for for the for the grad program that I applied to and got into. And I was like, oh my gosh, shut up. So, so yeah. So I mean, then the rest was history, honestly. From there, um, it really felt like like a faded kind of situation because like I said, I I applied to one program, got into that one program, and then yeah, everything just kind of fell in place from there. Really?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Oh, I love that. Okay, so take take us back to that decision though, and maybe it was really easy. And maybe we'll get into that because as a type eight, very decisive. Like that is that is a gift. Um, but I I know that there are so many other people who have felt that way too, like describing like being miserable and just kind of unfulfilled, um, not really like going anywhere. And then at the same time for a lot of us too, it's like, well, I know that I don't know what I want to do. It's just like this isn't it. And so if to take the leap to into the unknown, into uncertainty can be really scary. So I'll just keep, I'll just keep doing this, I guess, until I quote unquote figure it out. So, what was that like for you to make that leap?

SPEAKER_00 6:36

It was it was scary, it was really scary because for me, I I pride myself on stability. And you know, I grew up in a house. Um, my mom was a single mom. I had four sisters, I'm the oldest of five, you know, and so stability was something that maybe wasn't always there. So growing up, I I realized that that was a part of my character to want stability, specifically financial stability, and knowing that if I took the sleep, you know, I'm a single woman, so no one's gonna be able to have my back if, you know, financially if I fall. Um, so it was it was scary. It really was. Um, but what was scarier for me, honestly, was living a life where I felt miserable and unfulfilled, and I felt like other people had so much control over where I could go in my life, what I could do in my life, and and that I would never ever like, I guess, leave a mark. And I know, I know that sounds, you know, innocent. Yeah. But that's how I felt. And I wanted to give the best of me, not just a part of me, you know. Yeah, I'm this analytical person, but I'm also I'm also like joyful and I'm also conversational and I'm also in like I enjoy people, you know. And so for me, it was about it was about being me. And if I was ever going to be me, what better time than now? When I'm I was at the very beginning of my career, believe it or not. And and it was just kind of like I wanted to move, so why not move for me?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yes. And I think that's amazing that you did it when you did it, rather than it's like, well, I'll let like five years go by or 10 years go by. And then it's like, oh, I'm still at that same spot. And so, yeah, it is always scary, but just having um, I love what you said about like it's like the scariest thing isn't what's ahead. It's like missing out on the potential and like the what-ifs and the regrets. And so, um, yeah, that is that that's a great reminder. Is there anything else that you would offer somebody who is thinking about making a change? And maybe it, you know, probably like a job change or starting their own business, but it could be, you know, moving to a new city or starting a relationship, like any advice or words of wisdom to anybody who's kind of contemplating a massive change like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Okay, so those are a couple of different areas. So I mean, honestly, the first thing on like I always feel like if you are contemplating career change, talk to a career counselor. Most jobs, believe it or not, have that at like added bonus. It's part of their benefits. And you can explore different things, different avenues. I took a um Meyer Briggs assessment and I got psychologist, and I was like, shut up, guys, shut up. But but it turned out to be something that that I love, you know, and it it could be the the farest from your mind, but giving yourself the opportunity to explore it is is it's it's a joy. And honestly, I think you would regret it if you didn't. Um, if you're thinking about a relationship change, girl, I would say I really put you in the hot seat here. You did. No worries. Um, talk to the therapist. Um we love we love that. We let's talk about it. Why? Let's talk about the the the reasons why. What what what brings it up for you? You know, where does that come from in you? Um that that I mean, everyone is different, you know. That could be a a fear, a childhood block, that could be anything that that we're not looking at just yet. So yeah, I mean, explore it. Talk, yeah, become us. Yes, that's such great of us.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I know. I knew as like a mental health professional, you would have a good thought on that. Um, but I think that I think the theme is uh, you know, really just another great reminder. It's just like get curious about it, like allow yourself to feel that way. Um, question exactly like why what has happened in the past that's making me scared or resistant or or whatever, regardless of what it is. So um love that advice. And then just getting like another, you know, another opinion sometimes can be incredibly helpful too. Um, okay. I want to talk about this. Is the Enneagram MBA podcast? So I I do want to get into a little bit about how um you stumbled across the Enneagram and then how you discovered or felt like I this is it. I'm a type eight. This cannot be any other number.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Well, it's so funny. I don't I don't do things a ton, but I had a friend actually, and he we were sitting at dinner and he asked me my Enneagram type because I'm like super into like assessments and these sorts of things. I was like, I have no idea. I don't know. Um, I was like, I know I did it before, but I don't remember. And if we actually just took a test, so this is how I found my Enneagram type. And um I didn't really explore a ton of different ones. So I know that's you're probably like, ooh, a tiss tiss. But but when I read the eight, and then when he read the eight, he was like, that that explains a lot, actually, about about me and um a lot of the ways that I make my decisions, you know, um, and a lot of the ways that I interact with the world around me. Um, it just it just made sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Yeah. Well, here's a fun fact for you. Um, normally eights and sometimes fives are the ones where they don't, it's like not a question. Um some of the others, like um a type one and a type eight, are sometimes confused in my experience, but it's never an eight thinking they're a one. It's a one thinking they might be an eight. And so eights usually know, like, uh, this is me, no question. And I would I just interviewed another eight a couple of weeks ago, and she was saying, and this is so true, a lot of times the one that you're most resistant to happens to be the one that you are, because you don't want to see those parts of you. But she was saying, as an eight, she's like, Oh, I love all these things. Yes, this is so me.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, yeah. No, literally, literally. I mean, there, I'm not gonna lie, there were parts, there are parts in her. I was like, dang, am I really that? Am I really that put that past? I mean that pushy. Um or you know, but um, but I realize, I realized too that like as you read it, you I feel like maybe you can't take it like, I don't know, how the heck can I put this? You can't take it like at face value because I think some things can look negative, but for me, I'm also on a um like I'm on a self-journey as well, you know, and I'm highly self-aware. So I think a lot of those points give you room to evolve as a person. So while it can be baseline and superficial in some in some regards, it's also something that you can explore and evolve with in others. So I I did enjoy seeing that on on black and white because it made it real.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yes, it does. It's like, oh my God, like this is a thing, and like not everyone does this, or it's it's or sometimes it's like, oh, there's other types that that do this, or the others like type eights that also do this. I'm not the only one. Um so that is nice. Um, I know that you had said too, like you really identify with the drive of the type eight and the ability to kind of have these um hard conversations, which is really interesting how you shared that story that your mom remembered about you just being like, okay, are we gonna talk about this or not? Because I was I will not bring that, I would never bring that up. I'd be like, okay, let's not bring up anything awkward or negative or emotionally discomfort. Um I mean, and it's like, wow, I yeah, I do that. Do you see like how do you see that boldness, the the ability to have those direct, honest conversations? How do you see that helping you in the work that you do now as a therapist?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Well, you can't be hard, you can't be as look, you can't be scared of hard conversations when you're a therapist. Yeah. Um, like a lot of times you see things, you see things, and you're questioning your mind, like, how how do I how do I like give this to this person without making like crushing them? You know, and um it's funny. Um, growing growing up, actually, it's always been a like having four sisters. I grew up in a house with like a ton of different personalities. And my mom made us take like this bird, it was like a like a personality test with like birds, right? And all of my sisters were doves, and then I was an F and Eagle. And I was like, oh my gosh. This is why we argue so much. And everyone is always like, You're so mean. I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm just honest, stop, guys. Believe it or not, that has that really has like trained trained my tongue to not be as sharp as I as it can be. Um, because because I don't obviously I love my sisters, I don't want to hurt them. Um so so I can see it and I do point it out, but it's in a way that is that is easy to swallow now. And so that's part of that evolution piece that I was talking about earlier. Um, it's knowing that this, hey, this can be a positive and a strength, but how can I evolve this into something that is usable for me?

SPEAKER_01 15:41

That's good. That's good. Okay, I want to ask you about um, you had mentioned, oh, I forget what you said, but it made me think of emotion. So like each, there's like different types have like kind of a go-to emotion um based on your center of intelligence specifically. And for the type eights, nines, and ones, it's their relationship with anger. Um, and so how does like how do you express anger? Like, is is it like most of the times eights get described as like this volcanic eruption, but then it's like they move on with their life after that can be really scary on the receiving end, but then it's like, what? I that was so like five minutes ago. Um, is that true for you, or how do you experience anger in your own life?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Okay, so I I will say this that um unevolved Demetria, um, like specifically like teenage relationships and those sorts of things, I definitely experienced those type those types of situations where um if I was like triggered, it was it was just it, like I was ending you and and then I was walking away. And yeah, I'll just let it loose. Um now um being being where I am, just in my life, really, um I see myself also having to work with this with my clients as well. Like I don't see anger as an emotion. And so if I am exhibiting anger, then I'm not telling you anything. So for me, my drive is to be heard in this conversation. So I always say, let's look beneath the surface. Um, I always do like the anger iceberg, and I'm like, if you only, if you only exhibit anger, it's like 15%. Um but no, genuinely. So I try to dig deeper. So if there's an anger there or if there's a feeling of anger there, I'm like, okay, maybe that's hurt, or maybe that's me feeling disrespected, or maybe that's me feeling feeling unheard. And and so, and then trying to explain where that's coming from because like I said, I want to be heard. Um, and so so yeah, that I think it's it's a part of me wanting to be healthier. So, like I said before, that superficial portion of it, yeah, that's there, but but there has to be an evolution aspect of it. And so that's that's where I take that in.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, and and that is, I think, the beauty of the Enneagram and just being a human being is the fact that you're growing. Um, and it and and I I heard this like really beautiful TED talk talking about you're not changing, you shouldn't focus on changing, you should focus on growing. Um it's not like you have to change into like a dog, or I forget like the example, it was just like ridiculous, like a tree. It's like you're you're a growing human being. A tree is gonna grow into a taller tree. And um, it that that is so it's like, yeah, just because you're a type eight or a seven in my case, it doesn't mean that like we're putting people in boxes, especially ourselves. And it's like, wow, I used to do that, but like I've really come a long way. And then I think also you can like appreciate how far you've come.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, it's a journey, it's a journey, and life is a journey. And I think as as people, um, and I don't know, maybe I'm getting to my spiritualities portion of this. Oh no, we can go there. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah. I just I just really feel like like um when you look at the world around you and like even just the earth around you, um, so many things are constantly changing and evolving. You know, you plant a seed, you get a tree, or you get a flower, you know, you might get some grass. But um, irregardless of that, um, that seed, it has to, it has to dissipate in order for something else to to come from it. So for me, I'm like, okay, so as a person, there are moments in my life where I experience like a breaking point, you know, and from that breaking point though comes beauty. And so when I'm and when I'm in, when I'm having a breakdown, I'm like, I'm like, God, why? But I had a friend, I had a friend when I was at my lowest point, honestly, Sarah, that was like, why not you? You know, and and that those words stuck with me because whenever I go through something, I'm like, why not me? You know, and so so yeah, this is given to me for a reason. What do I get from this so that I can move forward with this as a lesson that I can take into whatever else life has to give me?

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Oh my gosh. And this can be one of my clips for social media. That was good. That was so good. Um, now I there are so many, there are so many um like beautiful and honestly things that I'm like I can find myself like getting jealous of. I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish I was just this like this decisive, or just like exuded this like confidence. And so I'm as a seven, sometimes I'm like, oh, I it's time to channel my eight wing. Um and at the same time, I know you had mentioned too that kind of the flip side. So the same energy that like gives us our light and our gifts is still the same energy that's fueling some of those shadow parts too, and the things that might drive other people crazy. And I know for you, you had mentioned like a struggle that you have is go, go, go, work, work, work, um, kind of overachiever, which yeah, type threes can also get dubbed that. But um, eights also have this very massive energy. They have the greatest energy of all on the Enneagram. So they can act, you they can do it, right? They can go, go, go longer than anybody. Um, how do you see that showing up for you? Like maybe like with a like in a productive way. And then when do you know that you need to pull it back? And I'll remind you if you need to know this question, and also what do you do as a type A, as somebody who is on the go to actually rest and recharge?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Okay, so many questions. Okay, so first of all, um, how has that shown up in in my work? So I am really early on in my career, believe it or not. And um, like I'm already independent contracting, I'm all I'm already assisting with supervision, I'm already in my second year of my PhD program. Um, so honestly speaking, I think that's um reminiscent of that go, go, go mentality because like I I'm constantly like, what next, what next, what next, what next? It's always there, you know. Um, so for me, that balance is it comes from me. Being tired as hell. Okay. Um, honestly, um, I think I think a lot of the times um you can find yourself in a position where you're like, okay, just give me a little bit more, you know, and that that's that's literally my inner self-talk. I think just a little bit more, just one more thing. You can do just one more thing. Um, and I had to tell myself, like, no, girl, no, you cannot. No, you will not. You might be able to, okay, but you will not. Um, so for me, I got tired of being tired. Um, so it's really like this whole evolution piece that we've been talking about, really, that was a part of it, that self-awareness journey. Um, so listening to myself and to my body when it's just ready to be done and not wanting to give me another, another piece, another paper, another sentence, you know, another email. Um so um my rest and recharge. So, first of all, I had to get organized. So I don't know if this, I think that's part of my do it, do it, do it. But uh, I had to find a schedule that worked for me. I pushed all of my appointments to that schedule. And I I don't, I don't like go away from that. Um, and then on my off days, I I listen to myself. So I give myself permission to do whatever I need. So if that is just like just be lazy and watch Netflix all day, then that's what I'm doing, you know. If that's um, if that is like just signing charts today and and and doing discussion posts for class, then that's what I'm doing. I mean, granted, there is a checklist in my mind. I know it needs to be done by due date, so those aren't gonna get missed. However, however, for me, it's just it's just about giving myself what I need. And and that's what it is. And two, as I've gone through this journey, I've also developed a strong sense of spirituality as well. So that that is also part of my recharge piece. I mean, I'm wearing crystals right now, right? So um, so for me, it was just it was really developing, just yeah, developing, evolving, and giving my per myself permission to do that. Um, that that's that's my rest and recharge.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yeah. And you know what I love about what you said too, it's just like it's it's um really intentional. It's not like, oh, I'm just numbing out, I'm zoning out, always watching Netflix. It's like, no, I'm checking in. Like, what do I need to do today? And it's like, I'm gonna rest. So like I'm intentionally going to rest. Um, I I brought this up on another episode, but I just think it's such a great example. I have a friend who um pulled up TikTok and then for Christmas, they screencasted it on the big TV and like their whole family watched TikTok videos for two hours. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, how beautiful, like how intentional. It's like we're we're gonna laugh for two hours and we're gonna just, you know, we're gonna do this on purpose. And it is just like, okay, checking in, like, what do I need? And then taking yourself off default mode, whatever that is for you, because some of it's like work, work, work is the default mode. And checking in, like, I need a rest. Like, what does that look like for me? What does that look like for me today? Um, and it might be different. So thank you for sharing that. Um, I know that you do a lot of work. Well, I know one of your areas of focus was around anxiety. And I just feel like we I cannot have a conversation without somebody talking about, you know, some type of fear, anxiety that they're having about um, you know, work, life, money, relationships, the, you know, the pandemic. You know, we're we're living in this interesting time right now. Um what I guess, first of all, how do you define anxiety?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Girl, that's a good question. Well, you know, I I I will honestly go straight to the DSM. That's how that's how we uh that's how we build. That's how we define things really, just in this, in this um field. So it's it's restlessness, you know, it's it's the inability to focus, it's it's feeling uneasy, you know, it's really feeling overwhelmed. It's feeling like there are so many things going on and I can't be still, but I also can't do it, you know? And so um, yeah, that that's anxiety, really. It's it can be sometimes at its worst, it can be very debilitating and it can go into something like panic, you know, where you're in a state where you're where you where you can't breathe and you're having chest pain and you feel like you're gonna literally like die and lose control. And some a lot of those times people end up like in the ER, you know, in the emergency room. Um, and it's like, well, the prognosis is we don't know what it is. It's probably just the panic attack, you know? And so um, so that's how that's how I define anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

And it's so interesting, like how powerful your mind is that it can do that.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah, yeah. No, seriously. Um, you know, actually, I one of the one of the um theories that I use in my in my practice, like specifically like psychosomatic, um, the way that your emotional state can present itself in in your physical being, like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm super stressed. Oh, I have um like a crimp in my neck, and this is my body taking on that stress, you know, that I'm not verbalizing. And so, so yeah, your mind is very powerful. And so checking in with that, yeah, it's important.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Yeah, yeah, that that is crazy. And there I I've I've read articles too on just like the impact of like your thoughts to like your physical well-being. Um, I think like shingles is one that I would I had read about like you somebody like had caused themselves basically to develop shingles because they were so stressed and kind of in that high panic stage. What what are some things that you uh maybe it's like a specific modality or a favorite modality, or just I don't know, like homework or just theories to help kind of overcome or not even overcome, maybe navigate through the that anxiety. Like how what can we do if we have it with a work project, with a family, like anything like when that comes up, what should we be doing or thinking?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Be aware. Yeah, I would say be aware. Um, something that I've talked about a lot today is that self-awareness journey from myself. And um, when I'm working with someone in practice, a lot of the times you realize that all of these feelings are there, they're just not being looked at or expressed, or we're afraid of exploring them. And so I just say I say be aware. Um, at the very beginning of like working with me a lot of times, I'll be like, let's do a body scan. Um, or if someone's telling me a story, I'm like, like, I'm listening, I'm listening, I'm listening. And then I'm like, and where do you feel that? Where in your body do you feel that? Um, and they're like, oh shoot, that's that's interesting. Um, but um, but no, it's real, it's real. And um, so yeah, I would just say be aware. And then if you find yourself in a place where you feel that it's something that maybe it's too much to handle, reach out. Um, that's why I'm here, that's why my colleagues are here. And and sometimes that's why your just your simple support system is there, you know, and and building that colony around you is important as well. So yeah, just be aware and then and be present and then be communicative.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

And you know what? Not to be a total Enneagram nerd, but as you were talking about like where do you feel it in your body, it's really interesting because eight nines and ones are in that body center of intelligence. So, like very in touch with how their body is feeling and they have like very strong gut reactions. I don't know if that feels true for you, but it's like, I don't, I can't explain why I did this. I just had a feeling and I did it. Um, but with that, so you know, if you're one of those types, um nines, maybe you gotta check in more too with the rest of us, but um that is so true that that we like we have a heart, we have a head, and we have our body. And I think so many times, um, especially like when when I'm working with people and we're looking at your center of intelligence, it it does tend to have like this over-reliance on one. And there's one that's kind of supporting that, and then there's one that is just kind of completely repressed. And for um, for me, it's feelings, but for I think all of us who don't have that gut instinct, it's like, yeah, get in touch with your body because I can get so in my head. I just had this chat with a friend, and it's like I am I've been walking around for weeks like a brain. Like I don't, I don't not even pay attention to my body, I'm not exercising, I don't, you know, feel anything. And so I just want to say personally, I got a lot from that reminder. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yeah, yeah, no problem, no problem. I was gonna say too though, girl, when you when you did say that there are people who might look at the other side of things as well, like believe it or not, that's that that's that awareness part too, because like you can be so emotional that you are out of touch with everything else. Yeah, you know, and so so I I pride myself a lot of the times on being like I feel like in my position, I have to be the logical part of your emotions. And and so sometimes, sometimes I'm like, I'm like, okay, so let's let's think about this. Because people are so feeler, feeler, feeler, feeler, feeler, feeler. And they used to annoy me, but now I understand them because I I'm trying to get to, you know, this is my job, right? But but yeah, so so so yeah, if you are strong in one, tap into the other because believe it or not, that's what balance you balances you, you know. My strong analytical logic brain, you know, is great in corporate America, but it's also great here too. Um, so so yeah, so yeah, uh thank you for that reminder.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah, it it's just kind of cool how things kind of show up. And then again, it just puts like an idea or a language or words to like how what you do, how you feel. And it's like, oh my God, yeah, I I get people can't people get frustrated because I can't explain how I did something, just because I just know it's the right way to do it or just know that's the right decision. Um, and um for me too, being in the head, it's really funny because I didn't realize how much I was, but it's it's very common for five, six, and sevens to be very much in their head. And so when somebody's like, um, how do you feel about that? Or like there's a situation and it's like some conflict, and they're like, Well, how, you know, my boyfriend's like, Well, how are you feeling? And I'm literally like, How am I feeling? How am I feeling? Like, let me think about how am I feeling? How am I feeling? And um, so I do have to remind myself to, yeah, get in touch with my emotions and like again, like feel it, yeah, where am I feeling it in my body and like what is that emotion? And um, because it is, it can be, yeah, like it serves a purpose to have like a you know, a strong gut instinct or strong, you know, mental capacity to be rational about things. But then there are places for the heart and whatever it is, you know, to bring that in, um, to grow, like you're saying, to grow and be more aware and ultimately have you know compassion, empathy for yourself and others.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

So um I want to get into just touching on this before we start to wrap this up. I have some rapid fire questions for you, Demetrio. But I want to hear about your PhD project. And I don't, is that what it's probably not it's that's something? Okay, yeah, yeah. I was like, that's what it was called. Yeah. See, so it shows how shows how like out of touch I am with the academic world. But um fill us, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you're working on with that?

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, so I'm still in the very beginning stages. I actually just got my I got my topic approved and my theory base approved. Um, but uh, but yeah, it's I'm looking at first generation college students um that have experienced microaggressions and how mental health providers um work with them. So like best practices and and those sorts of things and looking for like holes, right? So is it supervision, is it, is it education, um where where, if any, are are the um are the areas of improvement. Um my theory, my theory base for that is the intersectionality theory. And honestly speaking, I'm excited about it because I've already had to uh defend it. You know, you don't have to defend it to the end, but I've already had to in the class where I was looking at getting my theory approved. Yeah. I was like, I'm not changing this if needed. Yeah, decisive, yeah, as hell. But but yeah, girl, I um and um so yeah, the intersectionality theory though, it looks at the whole person. So cultural backgrounds, age, um, gay, street lesbian, like sexuality, those sorts of things. Like it looks at everything, you know, spirituality, all of that. And um I think it's all important because I think what I was finding a lot of the times um was that, you know, in my research, going up getting up to this point was that when you look at first generation college students, a lot of the times it was all, oh, they're poor and they're from this specific background. Um, they went to this specific school. But what we're finding is that that is an ever-growing class of people and ever-growing population of people, and it's super diverse. And so I want to look at that diversity and look at ways that we can work with that diversity in the counseling field. So growing that research.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Oh, I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. Um, before we get into the rapid fire questions, for anybody else who is interested in what those findings might be or how to connect with you and just kind of you know connect with you on social media or learn about working with you. Where are you hanging out? Website, social media, tell us.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I'm very new. So I I'm on LinkedIn right now.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

I mean that's it. Yeah. Yeah, you can you can catch me on LinkedIn. I'm working on um getting my uh Facebook page going. So within the next couple of days, you should be able to follow me on Facebook. Um, under just Demetria, January. Um, so yeah, so uh looking on there. Um I'm also working on getting my own personal podcast going on uh Spotify and Apple Music. Um what is it called? Oh, let's be clear with Dimmy. Yeah, oh my god, I love it. Yeah, yeah. So I'm looking at mental health and all those topics and really just having conversations. So yeah, I'm working on building that. I have like, I think two, two uh episodes up right now. Okay, you're it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

I mean, as soon as like an eight sets their mind or something, like it's happening. So yeah, keep an eye out for the Facebook page and the podcast. Um, and depending on when this comes out, I'll I will circle back with you and we'll throw links in here if they are available in the show notes. Um, okay, so I always like to ask just a couple of questions at the end, and they don't have to be rapid fire answers, but I just will do my best not to respond. So they're rapid fire questions. Um the first thing is what is something new that you are learning right now? And it can be work-related or hobby related, literally anything.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

So, Steve. Um, something new that I'm learning. Maybe, maybe it can be emotional intimacy. Emotional intimacy. I'm learning it. I'm still I'm still like evolving with that. So yeah, I'm learning it.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Okay, love it. What about what is something that you are unlearning? Having to be strong. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I just have to say that that is like the core of an eight. That is just the core of an eight. And I'm not trying to put you into a box, but it is just really interesting. Yeah, that is like that's the work for the A is to allow vulnerability, to not see emotions, talking about emotional intimacy, anything other than anger and that stereotypical um eight level, it's like, oh, that's weak. Um, and so I love that. I love it. So, okay, and that's again something that we can all work on because it's not just eights. It's like we all have that kind of like there's something in us that's like, oh, that's weak, or I don't want to be weak, or I don't want to lose control.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Um, so yeah, you realize how much fear is attached to that, and and how how how you learn it too, you know, like for me, like it was childhood, it was trauma, it was all of these things. And and then too, like sometimes it's generational, so it might not even be your own. It was passed down to you, and now you're dealing with something that your grandmother gave your grandmother that gave, I mean, your grandmother gave your mother that gave it, gave it to you, you know, and so uh so yeah, I yeah, I'm I'm learning that.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Yeah, and and you know, that is that I'm so glad you brought that up because a lot of times people ask, like, like how is my type formed, or you know, talking about personality. I know this is like your area of expertise too, um, outside of the Enneagram, but it it it is, it's like we have developed like something happened early on in life. We all have something, and then we developed defense mechanisms, coping strategies that kept us safe and got our needs met at that time, and now we just are using them on default without intention. And again, it can it can be remedied the more awareness you bring to it. So I love that you have kept hammering on the awareness piece because that that's the first step. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, literally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah. Um, and then last question, I uh I love a good book, and I know we have a lot of listeners on here too who are bookworms. Um, do you have something that you are reading right now that you absolutely love? Or is there a book that you would recommend um in the mental health space in the work that you do around anxiety or you know, mental health, anything? It can be fiction, anything you want to give us. We want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yeah, yeah. So I'm a poet actually, and I love poetry. Yeah. So um self-love poetry by Melody Goffred. I read that a thousand times. I give it, give that recommendation to my clients. It's a beautiful book. Um, read it. Yeah, it actually, so it's for thinkers and feelers. So it has both sides, believe it or not. And so, and I and I like that because I think it speaks, it speaks to everyone. And and then two, one side might be super abstract to you, and then you read the other side and you're like, oh shoot, oh shoot, okay, this is totally me. So yeah, I yeah, I like that book.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

What a great recommendation for thinkers and feelers. I just pulled it up here. Um, thank you. Oh my god, I'm like put that in my cart right now. Um, well, listen, Demetria, I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule. Thank you. And it was so fun. Selfishly, it was fun to reconnect with you. And then I know that the listeners are going to get so much from your own journey and the work that you do, and just um channel our inner eight when we need to. Is there anything else before we come to a close here that you would want to say about finding your purpose, doing work that matters, doing work that lights you up, um, that we haven't already covered that would just kind of make this feel complete?

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Yeah, I don't even know if it's that we haven't covered it, but it's really just like hammering in, right? Because that's that's me. Yeah, that that you're not stuck. Um, I think a lot of times people feel like, oh, I'm too old, or or I'm not smart enough, or or whatever it might be, but you're not stuck. You can evolve, you can grow. And if you feel that that stuckness is from pain, you can heal. Um, start the journey, don't be afraid, just do it. And that's what I got.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

The best words to end on. Thank you so much, Demetria. I appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

No problem.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Thanks again for hanging out and being here with Demetria and I today. If you have a moment, definitely get connected with her over on LinkedIn or Facebook. Let her know, say hello, let her know what you enjoyed about this interview. I know it always means so much to hear from you. And if we are not already connected, let's also connect over on Instagram at EnneagramMBA or over on LinkedIn with Sarah Lynn. And say hello, let me know what you're up to, let me know what you do, let me know what type you are. If you happen to not yet know what type you are, you're stuck between a couple. I also want to let you know about a free resource. It's a very juicy, meaty workbook on how to find your Enneagram type. You're gonna get an overview of the driver behind each of the behaviors, each of the types. Um, you're gonna understand their repeat issues, what they desire most in life, and the one thing that is unique to each type so that you can really start to discover and more accurately narrow down your own Enneagram type and ultimately start to better understand yourself. You can find that at sarilynco.com forward slash Enneagram types with an S Enneagram type. So until next time, have a great one and I will see you back here soon.