SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gift and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. All right, you all, we are here for another episode of the Enneagram MBA podcast. And today is a little bit different of an episode. It's unlike anything I've ever done before, and I'm a little nervous, but I'm also feel really good about this conversation because I have Olivia Miles with us today, who is a grief coach and an advanced grief recovery specialist. And so, as a seven myself, the word grief kind of makes me feel anxious and like my throat is closing. And ironically, Olivia is also a seven. And so when we connected and she said what she did and that she was a seven, I was like, oh my gosh, tell me more about it. So I'm gonna go ahead and bring you on, Olivia. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Well, I am so excited to have you. And this, like I said, this is something that I have not really spent a lot of time in personally and definitely not professionally, but I loved when I was, you know, looking more into your Instagram content and your your website and how you help. And my initial thoughts when we talk about grief is like death and loss, which obviously that's such a part of it. But just before we kind of get into it, like what are some other things that are considered grief that I just think most of us don't even think about and we just kind of move on with our lives and try and go on?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Oh, yeah, there's tons of incidents. So grief is basically the normal and natural reaction to a change or a loss of any kind. So that could be a move, that could be a breakup, that could be a change in job, even a positive change. If there was a loss, like say you got a promotion, but you really liked your other job, that change is a that that's a loss, that's a grief occurrence because you have to adjust and you have to deal with those negative emotions and still be that conflict and emotion of positive and negative is a grief event. And so we don't realize that because there's a a sunshine side to it, that we don't want to recognize the negative side to it. Even sometimes getting married could be a loss event because you're losing your singleness, you're losing your identity as a single person. Now you're having to adjust to being a married person or um having a baby, you know, they, you know, post-prime depression. You know, I don't want to get into it. I'm not a counselor or a licensed professional, I'm just a coach. But that change in an event is a lost event because you're going from you as an individual not having to take care of someone to you as a person who now is responsible for another human being. And so that that conflicting feeling is a grief event. And so there is tons of different uh events in our lives that produce grief that we just chalk up as, oh, that's just life, you know, oh, okay, no big deal, you know, but even a pet loss, you know, especially if you're if it's a pet that you know you cuddle every day when you get home and then all of a sudden the pet dies. Yes. And it's like now you don't have that that change in your pattern of behavior is a grief event. That's a loss that you have to you you have to address, otherwise the emotions don't go away and your heart remains broken.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Okay, and I you gave so many good examples, and I yeah, so many things. And can I just can I just say two things? One, from my own personal experience, when you were talking about getting married, I hadn't thought about that before, but like losing my name and like merging things, and it is so interesting how happy that could be, but also like there's that flip side to it as well. So I love that, and then um actually something that I talked, oh no, um, I just dropped my camera, but that's okay. We're on audio, so we're gonna keep going. But something that I had talked with one of my friends is that I had always seen myself as like this single woman. Um, and I have a son now, so it would have been single plus plus plus one, I guess, plus a kiddo. Um, but uh like living in a high-rise downtown somewhere, living like this city life, and that's just like not where I'm at right now. And I've been in a relationship and that's not what our life would have looked like. And I was happy, but also kind of like almost grieving that dream, I guess, or that thought. And it felt so silly. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Is that is that it does make you okay, and that is grief because that's the conflicting feeling of a thought that you had of an emotional event, and that was the loss. It was a loss of what you thought you wanted, or you know, what you wanted and don't have, and that disconnect, that dissonance is the loss, yes, and that's that's the loss.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

I I and I want to get into I want to get into to more of this and like what to actually do about it. But before we hit play, we just were kind of talking or record. We were also just kind of talking about like in Western culture, I think more so, and I think other countries and other cultures maybe do a better job of of mourning and grieving and allowing those feelings. But here it's like, all right, it's time to move move on. Um, it's like even after like a death, or I just feel like it's like, well, you've had that time, like let's get back to work. It's time to get back to work.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Right. You have your six weeks of or two weeks of bereavement time. Now let's get back to it. You know, you've had your time of mourning at the funeral. Now let's, you know, come on, pull yourself up by your root straps, let's get back going, get it together while you're still crying, you know, things like that. So yeah, there that is that cultural um challenge that we face, that if we're still in our emotions, in our, let me rephrase that, if we're still in our negative emotions, there's pressure to get out of it. Yeah, but I want to say I want to say this. Nobody says to you, why are you so happy? Yeah. So why would they say, Why are you so sad? So it's just a it's just a a perception that negative emotions are bad when in reality they're not, they're they should be treated as equal as positive emotions.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Okay, and I have so many things to ask you because that is like the life of a seven. So I want to get into this unicorn seven. Um, but before I do, I wanted to bring up one more thing, just in case like anybody else has this awareness too. And then if you have anything additional you want to add to it, I would love to hear your thoughts too. But as I was prepping for this, because again, like this is a topic that I'm not, you know, actively seeking out. Um, I was, I had a thought. Um, my sister recently just got a new car. And her car was so old, the heat was going out. It was like done. And it was kind of, you know, getting getting old over the years and just it was not a great car anymore. And it finally just died the other day, and she got a new car. And she was so sad about the car. And I'm like, get over it. You got this new car. And I'm like, oh my gosh, look, you have heat. Yeah, you got this. And as I was, it just clicked as me this morning. I have, I was like, I need to call her and apologize. And and like just allow like her to be sad about it. Because I want to be like, oh, look, it's good. You got something with heat, and not allow her to like feel the sadness for her old car that she does have so many memories with.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

That's right. We can't minimize the loss just because we replaced it. Yes. Because the loss is still the loss, regardless of if we replace it or not. The loss is still the loss.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah. And it's like, well, you can't ever replace, I guess, fully. It's always it'll always be different. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it, I think this is a great conversation, even if you might be thinking, um, like me originally, like, oh, well, I don't have anything to grieve or I'm okay. It's like, well, I I think that's probably not 100% true. I think probably something. And also it's just like, wow, I feel like now my capacity for my friendships and my all relationships has has grown just by that one little piece of awareness that there's all kinds of ways to grieve. Um, okay, so I gotta ask you, Olivia. So type sevens are known for being conflict or not conflict avoidant, discomfort emotions, uncomfortable emotions, pain avoidant. How how has that played in? Well, I guess first let me ask, how did you did you end up as a grief coach? Because I just feel like stereotypically a type seven, this would be the last field that they would ever get into.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

And you're absolutely right. I would have never thought that I would be a grief coach, even before I learned about the Enneagram and realized that I was a seven, um, that I would be a grief coach. But it was because I had uh a really bad loss event myself. I lost my son, my secondborn son, to death in 2007. And being a seven, because you know, regardless of if you know you're a seven or not, that's what you are, right? And so I didn't know how to deal with that. I didn't have the capacity to go there and come back, and I didn't, and I and I thought if I went there, I would never be able to come back. And I just kept reframing, reframing, reframing, reframing all the stuff. And finally I had a breakdown. Like it was really bad. I couldn't get out of bed, it lasted for more than way longer than I'd like to have to say, and it was in that place that I realized one, I I didn't die by finding my negative emotions, and two, I can go there safely and come back. I don't have to stay there. And um when I found out those two things, I I built the capacity to go to my negative emotions, recognizing that they're safe, and then I quickly come back to the positive side because I am a seven, let's be real, and then I I say, okay, I'm back to my I'm back to my positive, you know, with a smile on my face, and I can reframe all I need to. But the cool part about it is I can bring joy where somebody else is in their pain. And so um I've learned that because I can I have the capacity to go there, I can open the space for someone, allow them to be in their pain without minimizing their pain or reframing their pain because I'm uncomfortable. And then I can also say, but guess what? You don't have to stay here. And I can help them get out of that pain and get to the other side, which is what I found is my gift as a seven, and in bringing them to joy from grief, but wouldn't been able to do that had I not got to the dark side and experienced that pain myself because I wouldn't have had the capacity to hold the space for them and without trying to reframe their pain.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Does that make sense? It may like as a fellow seven, like that is I think that is why it is so scary to feel those uh difficult feelings because it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna be swallowed up by them.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yes, and I'm never gonna get out, like I'm gonna feel depressed forever if I feel a little sad now and trapped, trapped and like I'm stuck, you know, and I and I and I'm like I can't stay there, so I'm not going to go there. Yeah, and now because I've been there and know that I can come out, I recognize that I can hold the space for people and still be in my true joy. And that's been freedom for me because it it shows one that I'm healed from my grief, and two, that I'm it's not a superficial healing. It's not like, oh, I just reframed it. Oh, he's in a better place and I'm okay. It's like, no, I'm really okay, and I can hold space for someone and allow them to be okay as well. And you're right. When I learned about the Enneagram, I was like, and I and they said, I even read a line that said, uh careers you wouldn't find a seven in, and grief was one of them. And I just start cracking up. I was like, oh, they don't know me. You know, they they don't know me because, and it's true, had I not experienced that loss, I would not be a grief coach. That is true. Had I not experienced that pain and then realized I want to help others to get out of it using my gift of joy, um, then I wouldn't be here. So I get that, you know. And do I do I um what's what am I trying to say? Do I wish it would have been different? Absolutely. Do I wish my kid wouldn't have died? Absolutely. But can I change it now? No. So this is where I am, and so this is why I chose that path.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Okay. And yeah, what what I I think is so cool about what you're sharing too is that you know, sometimes we feel like, oh my gosh, my I'm this type, and this is just how I am. Like I'm just um I angry. I'm just, you know, reframing. I just like to look on the positive side or whatever, fill in the blank. I just like to help others. And it's like, well, that's just how I am. And, you know, period. But it's like, wow, like what an incredible um just testament to like the the ability to grow as a as a human and almost like grow out of your type. Um, you know, hanging on to some of the the beautiful, great things, but also, you know, growing out of like, oh my gosh, sevens can't handle, you know, hard feelings. It's like, well, yes, like with yeah, like with with work and things and with a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah. Yeah. Trust me, it was not without a lot of work, you know, counseling, you know, things that I had to go through in my own journey. Definitely. It wasn't without a lot of work, but it was worth it. I mean, it was, oh man, it was worth it. And as a result, my family is is healthy. You know, I'm still married to the same person. Um, we have more children now. I have five children total. Um, and at the time when my son died, I only had one son. And so now we have more kids and a full life. And I mean, it's joy, it's joy all around. But with I couldn't have got to the joy without experiencing the sorrow. Yeah, like truly going through and getting through the sorrow to the joy, the true joy. And because I have that, I can help other people get out of that now and be like, we ain't staying here. Let's go. You know, like, and when people come around, they're like, Why are you so happy? I'm like, girl, because I know you ain't staying here, you know. Like, I know you sad now, but trust me, you're not staying here. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah, you know, so you're right, like the the the like their sevens would actually make probably great grief coaches, like once they experience that growth for that reason, and then like very visionary and can see the possibilities. And so, like, I'm seeing, yes, I'm seeing all that, you know, you brings right, yeah, yeah. I I um I don't, you know, like I told you at the beginning, like this is like I might be awkward for during this conversation to listeners, and you'll just have to be patient with me. Um, but this was something that I am like very ignorant to, and I have absolutely made the mistake. And I wasn't really planning on asking you this, but um, there is um a woman that I follow on Instagram, and she lost her um her newborn at some point, I don't know exactly how old. And it's you know, she kind of talks about that. And um, she will bring up occasionally things that people have said to her um with I think good intention. And you had mentioned one of them that was like, I think it was like they're in a better place or something like that. And it's they're like encouraging her to move on. And then she gave a list of other things to say instead. And I was like, wow, I'm so glad she shared that because yeah, sometimes I probably have I'm sure that I've stuck my foot in my mouth and said one of those other things. Would would do you have kind of um like a list or you know, I I don't want to make it like, oh, a checklist, but maybe some things to like avoid saying to somebody who is in a loss or grieving of of any kind, um specifically something as, you know, something like a death, and then maybe some other things that we could say or ask instead.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah, like be strong for others. You can't be strong for others. Don't say that. That's that's that doesn't help anyone. It's like, what does that even mean? Right? Rip uh there's other fish in the sea, if for example, there's a breakup or a divorce, or you can always get another one, or you can always have more children if there's a loss in a child, you know, or a miscarriage, or things like that. You know, those are yes, those are all true statements, but just because they're true doesn't mean that they're helpful. That's the difference. They're almost insensitive because basically you're minimizing the loss and you're you're saying replace the loss, and you're not acknowledging that the loss happened, you're just trying to move on quickly without saying this is actually what happened to me. Instead, just honor the person. You know, just say, How can I help you today? Do you need anything from me? Are you okay? And then if they say they're not, let that be okay without trying to fix it. Yeah. You know, sometimes, most times it's okay not to be okay. Okay, to be sad, and then just say, I'm sad, and be like, okay, I get that, and just allow them to be sad without trying to fix it, because we're a fix-it kind of people, right? We want to fix it, we want to make them feel better quickly, but when you do that, you override the emotional journey that they need to go on to get to their healing, and so we don't want to override that. We want them to process that so that they can get to their healing quickly on their terms at their pace for where they need to be at. And if we're offering these kind of tangential statements, we're trying to rush them to get to where we are instead of us going to where they are. So as so as a person who wants to help, just meet them where they are and just ask them, you know, what happened? Are you okay? Do you need me to do anything? Do you need me to get you anything? And just be there for them as a person and not as a fix it, you know, not trying to fix it, but just being there as a friend, as a person, as a human-to-human connection. And that'll that goes so far because that opens the space that opens for capacity, that opens for emotional support, emotional honesty. And when we get to a place of emotional honesty, we can get to a place of healing. Yes. That's where we get.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah, it's like allowing yourself to go through those emotions and be honest with like, yeah, I'm not having a good day, or I feel really sad. And um, the thing that I always talk about with four type fours, and again, you know, every type is different or every individual is different, but it is so true that we live in this like reframed a positive or fix it type of culture. And the thing that I always note about the fours is that they're the only type that tends to be okay with just being like, yeah, that sucks. Oh gosh, let me sit here with you. Because everybody else wants to fix it or do kind of the toxic positivity thing. Um, and I think it's because it makes us comfortable, uncomfortable. It's like, oh my gosh, oh well, oh, I can't handle this. So like let me fix it or you know, reframe or exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Exactly. And so if we allow the space for them, then that that gives them the opportunity to get to where we where they need to be, which is some most of the times where we are, if we open the space, we don't have to necessarily pull them, they just draw. So you don't necessarily have to pull somebody out, you just open the space for them to walk to you. Does that make sense? Is that is that a better metaphor versus fixing, fixing, fixing? It's just like I'm just gonna allow the space for you to come. And you can come here or you can sit over there. Either way, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Yeah, yeah, because then it's like not about you. It's like I'm here if you need me, but if not, that's cool too. Like, you're not hurting my feelings or offending me.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

That's right, that's right. Because it's not about you, it's about them and their pain and their emotional health. That's what it's about. And so when you want to be there for somebody, you want to get you out of the way and take care of them.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yes, yes, I love that. I love that. Um, I I want to get into a couple of myths that you had addressed. And then what what I think we'll do is maybe kind of just talk about each type, what each type might struggle with or what they might need. We'll just kind of see how it presents itself. And then you can kind of talk about how what you do and how you help, maybe through that lens, and then we'll absolutely make time to fill in the gaps. But first of all, one of the things that I I hear all the time that I was like, oh my gosh, this is so true, is that time doesn't heal the wound. And you had talked about what does. Would you expand on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yes, absolutely. So it's just like um action in time heals, not time. Um, so it's like when you go, when you get, it's like when you when you get a cut, when you get a cut, you you put something on it, right? Like you rinse it off, you you you high, you hold it so that it stops bleeding, then you wait for it to heal, right? You don't just leave it because then it gets infected, and then it just it gets all nasty. And like you don't just leave it, right? The same with if you get a flat tire. If you get a flat tire, you don't just say, oh, okay, I'm just gonna sit here and let it inflate. You know, time is gonna make my tire inflate. No, you action in time, right? Action, you either put air in it or you get a new tire, right? It's the same with our emotional health. Um, we think because we can't see it, that it doesn't exist or that we don't have to take care of it, but we do. It does exist and we do have to take care of it, and we can't ignore it. And so what I do in the brief recovery is help with those actions in time. It's a it's just a four-step process where we address the loss, we go through, we we address the loss, we actually address the loss. So we say, this exists. Like this is this exists, this is happening, and this is how I'm feeling about it. We give it voice at every step. We give it voice. We honor the loss, we don't ignore it, we address it, and then from there we say, okay, this is how I'm feeling about it. And then from there, this is what I want to say about it. And then from there, this is how I'm this is how I'm gonna complete it. So we go through these four action steps, if you will, for each loss that we experience, not just the death, the divorce, but every major loss. And we actually come take it to completion so that we're not just dusting it under the rug and you know, oh, that's it and that's all. Oh, it never happened. Oh, I'm just gonna let time happen. Because then um it's like this before I found this method, um Josiah had been uh passed away, um I think like 10, uh no, like six years. And so in six years, nothing had changed. I still felt the same. I'm like, how can time heal if in six years it feels like he just died yesterday? Yeah, right? Like if you think about that, it's like if you think about an event that you hadn't come to completion with, emotional completion with, and you think about it, you can be like, dang, it felt like that happened yesterday. It's because you haven't dealt with the emotional loss. And so that's how you know that's a myth that time does not heal it. Because if it did, if if something triggered that memory, you could remember it without the pain, you wouldn't go back to it and it'll feel like it happened yesterday or it's happening right now. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

It does, it does. I think for especially for our three sevens and eights who love action and you know, four versions like, yes, okay, something to do.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

And this is why I love this method because for a seven, especially me, I said, okay, this is something I can do. Like I saw, I saw the completion, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna try this. And if I can actually feel better, then I'm I'm gonna be on board because I was already helping people with grief. I love the joy part, you know, the joy is my go-to, that's my strength. And so I was already kind of doing that with my church and other organizations, and I was doing it in and I felt I still felt like something was missing because I was like, yeah, people are feeling better, but then they keep coming back, and so it's like it was like something was missing. Does that make sense? Like it, I don't know. So then when I found this method, I was like, this is the missing piece, this is what was missing, this is where the completion happened because you get to give voice to all the things that were unsaid that you didn't get to say related to your emotions and your emotional health, and then you're like, Oh my God, there's like now I can remember without the pain. Now I can talk about Josiah death and not cry. Now I can help other people who've lost children and not get triggered. Now I can go sit with someone who's dealing with the loss and help hold space for them and bring them out and not feel like I have to grab a hold of their loss too and carry it on my back. I can actually do that. Yes, because I become emotionally complete. And I've seen it over and over with my clients. I've seen it, and they call me, they're like, girl, I can't believe it. I did this, the thing that I said I would never do again. I went, you know, one lady she said she could never go back to the park. She finally went back to the park, didn't have any problems. It's like, what? You know, it's like that brings you so much joy because people can live. It's like you can live again, it's like you're no longer in emotional jail. It's and it's a jail that you put your own self in. Now you decided I don't want to be in this jail no more. And so you just decide I'm out of here. Enough is enough. And so, girl, we we make it work, okay? So we get we make it work, and so I put we it's an eight-week process. We go over the myths, we go over all the things that they were taught. We kind of unearthed, if you will, all the negative because that's important. We want to make sure that we're starting on a clean slate. We want to make sure that we know these are the tools that we're using, and then once they learn the method, here's the cool part. Once you learn it, you can use it on every single loss. This is the beautiful part. So I just had a recent loss, and I'm not in emotional jail because I use the tools, and it's like that's the beautiful part about learning this, and it's for everyone. It's for everyone. This it's not a secret. It's not like, oh, you can only learn this if you go to school or if you're the master's degree, or if you, you know, it's none of that, it's for everyone, and that's my goal, and that's the goal of the institute, is where I was trained, is to um for every griever to know the method, for every every human to know the method, so that when an emotional loss occurs, they have the tools to use so they're not in emotional jail, and you can be free. Like that's that's the mission. Every griever has the tools to use so that you can be free.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

I know I'm talking a lot.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

I'm no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

I mean, you are my guests, and I want to hear everything that you're saying, and it's all so good. I was just gonna piggyback off that. And something I I and I'm not gonna quote it perfectly, but something that you had shared on your website was that kind of when you started to learn this and and um heal, what it looked like was you were able to start enjoying your life again and living while still remembering your sons. And so you're able to do both. And I was like, gosh, that's so good. Um exactly. And you're you're talking about, so you're talking about a method, and immediately I'm like, okay, yeah, this sounds like okay, we can do this. And also, I know like type one, who loves like structure and like organization, um, is probably gonna like get down with a method and a type three, very goal-oriented, it probably feels like, okay, like, okay, I can do this. Here's A, here's B. You said it takes about, or you it's an eight-week process.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

If you work with the specialist, it's about a seven to eight week process. You can also do it on your own. I'm gonna share the book. The book is called the Grief Recovery Handbook. Okay. This is the book. The book walks you through it. You can walk through it on your own. I don't recommend it though, because you need I would recommend you do it with a partner, which is with the specialists. You can go to the Grief Recovery Institute website or you can go to my website and I'll walk you through it myself. Um, there's specialists all over the U.S. So you can do it in person or via Zoom if you want to work with me and you're not in the local area. But I recommend you start with that because it goes through the myths, it goes through all, it unearths everything that you heard about grief, all the losses, all the crap, right? You get it all out, then it walks you through the method, it's a four-step process at every step. Like I every step is a chapter. So, and it is so simple, it's real simple. And and it it's a simple book to read. You know, if you can read, you can do this process, is what I'm saying. And the book is in multiple languages. There's an audiobook, it's on Kindle, and it's on Audible. So even if you can't read, if you can listen, you can do it. Is what I'm saying. It's available for everybody in 40 different languages. The goal is that people don't hurt. That's the goal, right? Like the goal is that we get this into every single person so that they have these tools so that they don't hurt. So if you get this book, it's the action program for moving beyond death, divorce, and other losses, including health, career, and faith. That's the book, okay? Now, with the specialists, you can walk through it with the specialists because we're trained. We and you know, there's tons of specialists. There's specialists that are counselors, there's specialists that are coaches, there's specialists that are just specialists. So you can choose whatever you want to do. I'm a grief coach, and then there's also where you can just choose you and a friend. Say you you and your partner want to work through it, you work through it, but it's but let me tell you this don't give up, it's hard work when you get to some of the steps. You ain't gonna want to do it. You're gonna be like, I don't want to face my loss. Yeah, I'm gonna tell listen to this podcast over and over and hear me say, don't give up. Trust the process, trust yourself and do the work because it's worth it for your emotional freedom.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

You know, you had mentioned miss, um the the the book and the program, the method kind of gets into and like unlearning. And one of the ones that stood out to me, I think just again, like as a culture, and then especially I know our type eights who have that core value of um vulnerability is weak and being sad, grieving is weak. Um, what do you say to somebody regardless of their type, who you know what what's the what's the truth to that myth?

SPEAKER_00 40:30

The truth is that all emotions are created equal. That's the truth. And if you're sad, it's the same, it should be ideally weighted as equally as if you're happy, and your emotions are is your body's way of saying we need to address something, whether happy or sad or angry, or elated, or excited, something in us is wanting to address something, and so don't ignore it, because when you ignore it, you're ignoring yourself, so don't ignore yourself, treat yourself with dignity and respect and honor every emotion that comes, it's a form of self-care.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

It reminds me of that Brene Brown quote quote that just popped into my head. Like it's on you're not able to feel joy and happiness if you're if you're not willing to feel sadness and you know the the uncomfortable. It's like you can't numb out some emotions and only feel others. It's like when you numb out emotions, you numb out all of them. So like your capacity for joy and all those other good feeling ones is you know, it's greatly minimized.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

I think, I think there's some truth to that for sure. I think you can still feel it, but I don't think you can feel it to the death. So, like when I talked about joy earlier, like I'm a seven, right? So I I can be joyful even if I'm feeling like crap, right? I can feel it. But when I did, it was when I realized that when I go into the dark and I cannot have to be stuck there and I can come back out that I really felt true joy. So it's the capacity and the depth of the feeling that I think you miss out on when you don't take care of all the feelings.

unknown 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

That's what I think. That's okay. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Um, the other thing that I wanted to touch on is, and you've mentioned it, like this idea of self-care. And I know that's like a very big buzzword right now, but when we when I was kind of looking at the myths and you know, kind of how to navigate through this, self-care came up. And I think you actually had shared a post with a couple of ideas. And I thought of, you know, a lot something we can all use, but a lot of times like our type two specifically came to mind because it's they're very others focused, you know, outward thinking and in a season of grief, you know, I can see them um pouring into others, still not looking at their own grief. And so I could see, you know, self-care taking care of themselves and not 100% focused on everybody else around them. What are some other examples of You know, self-care specific in these situations.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

I would say journaling because they can go internal without actually having to spend any money or do anything that's wild and crazy. Yoga is a good self-care activity because it gets them out of their head and into their body. And again, they can do it in their living room. They don't have to go out to the yoga studio to do that. Also, a good fiction book. Sometimes we think of you know self-care as bubble baths and nails and things like that. And that is true. That can be self-care if you don't normally get your nails done or take bubble baths. But sometimes getting a fiction book and having a good laugh, you know, watching a comedy, you know, laughter is great medicine. And things like that, we tend to think are like, oh, I don't have time for that. I gotta read a self-help book, you know, I gotta read a, you know, uh a business book or a a book on my craft, you know, or even a new hobby. Maybe you want to take up something that you haven't done before. And it's like, oh my gosh, I want to do this. That's something that you want to do, go try it before you buy it, you know, if you will. Like, especially for me as a seven, I have to do hobbies because otherwise everything is a good idea. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

It's like you're gonna have 25 businesses. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Oh, yeah, I can make some money on that. Let me do that. No, Olivia, no, girl, sit down, you know. So it's like, oh, let me do this as a hobby first, and see that's a form of self-care for me because I'm taking care of me as a seven without squishing my ideas and squishing my thoughts, honoring myself, but still not um going off the deep end. So finding ways for them to honor themselves, all types, finding ways for you to honor yourself if you like to do so. If you love cooking and you normally cook for others, cook a meal for yourself and say, okay, I love to cook, but today I'm gonna cook something for me and I'm gonna sit down and eat it. That's a form of self-care because now I'm going inward and I'm taking care of myself as a two and not taking care of everybody else as a two. And then I'm gonna say, y'all figure out what y'all are gonna eat for dinner tonight. I'm eating this, y'all on your own. You know, yeah, yeah. That that would be a form of self-care for it, too, because they take care of themselves and everybody else can can wait. Yeah, put your feet up and and watch a comedy while you eat the meal that you cook for yourself. Yeah. Oh I love it.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

I love it, I love it. You know, one thing I just heard from um a friend over Christmas, she said that her family um, what is it, casted her TikTok to the big screen and they just like watched hilarious TikToks for two hours and just laughed. And I was like, I love that. And I think with like intention and being doing it on purpose, exactly, not using it as like a zone out kind of thing. It's like, oh my God, I love that idea. That's so fun. Um, I you know, I this is there's so much more I know that people get into and talk to. And I I know that you have kiddos at home right now, so I don't want to um encroach on your time more than this, but I I really appreciate you having this conversation. I wanted just to ask you a couple of questions as we start to wrap it up. Um, and one is um one the woman that I told you that I follow on Instagram, kind of the talking about her son, she said like one of her favorite questions was when somebody asked her about a memory of her son. And so I want I was wondering if you would be willing to share one um of Josiah for for us.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Okay, yes, I would love that. Thank you for asking. Um Josiah, he was two when he uh when he passed away. So I remember when he was about one and a half, we went to Olive Garden. And we at the time I had two kids. It was me, my husband, and my two sons. And you know, at Olive Garden, you get the breadsticks, right? Oh yeah. And you get, oh, they're so good, right? And you get, you know, the pasta and all the other stuff, right? All the goodies. Yes. And the breadsticks came, everybody's sitting down, we're all kind of chit-chatting, no big deal. Josiah climbs on the table, crawls on the table, grabs two breadsticks, okay, and is just like chomping away on the breadstick, standing up. The lady on the other table was like, Oh my god, he's so cute! He could not wait. I said, girl, he was hungry. He could not wait to eat them breadsticks. And I said, just sit your butt down. And he just started cracking up. And I mean, it just brought so much joy to the people, even the tables around us, they saw him and they were laughing. And he he just had a huge personality, even at, you know, two years old, one and a half, two years old. And so he just was a joy, if if that makes sense, to be around and his his light shone even as a little baby, you know. So that was a good memory. And we actually recorded that. So we have a video. So every every so often, about every couple years, we'll watch it and we'll all laugh and just enjoy him. And it's just sweet. It's just so sweet to see it. So thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Yeah, and I'm smiling so big because I'm just like imagining that little two-year-old, one and a half year old laugh. It's like so infectious and it is just so happy.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

And everyone around was laughing, and we were just eating the breadsticks, and it was just a great moment. It was so good. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

I love it. I love it. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing that. Um, lastly, I want to ask you where can people connect with you? I I mean, uh, we are there's so much, even just I and we didn't have time, but I wanted to get into if you want to say anything else to this, please do. But I wanted to get into like individual grief and then kind of like collective grief, because I I know what you know, um just politics and pandemics, and that you know, there's our our lives are never going to be the same. So um I'm sure there's lots of that. So we are dealing, everybody is dealing with this in in some way. And so I, you know, to have a resource um, I think is going to be so helpful. So I know that you recommended the book. You mentioned that you are kind of a guide, a coach. Where can we learn more about what you do? Where can we connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Yes, you can go to my website, iamolivia miles.com. On there, I have my grief groups where I have groups. I usually have a group group once a month. Um, I do them either on on Zoom and then local in McKinney, Texas. So if you are not local, we can still get together. And I also have one-on-one. So if you can't make the group times, but you love me and you want to meet with me, then we can do a one-on-one time, and that's fine. Um and as far as the collective grief and the individual grief, it's real. Don't dismiss your feelings. That's the most important thing I want to get to you. If you feeling like something is not right, if you feeling off, if you like, I'm feeling sad right now, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling some kind of way. Acknowledge it. Acknowledge it. That's it. Just acknowledge it and reach out to me. Reach out to me, and we'll get you set up where you need to be. Because it's no reason for you to put yourself in emotional jail. Yeah, it's no reason for that. There's resources, there's people rooting for you. I'm if nobody else is rooting for you, I'm rooting for you. Okay. And trust me, I'm a good cheerleader. Okay. So we got you. Okay. Um let's get this done. Like, that's what I'm about. Let's get this done. So go to my website. Oh, also Instagram. Instagram. I'm on Instagram. I am Olivia Miles, M Y L E S. Um, so you can find me on Instagram too. And I post on there you pretty regularly, and you can DM me there if you have any questions or concerns, or you want to know more about the grief recovery and or get into a group and we'll get you set up.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Yeah, definitely get in touch with Olivia and just yeah, you know, let her know what you're taking away from this, how she could be a resource. Yeah. Um, before we jump off here, I always um try and ask too, you know, I know we've covered a lot, and if there's nothing else to add, that's okay. But is there anything else that you would like to share um about being a seven, about the work that you do, about your son, and literally anything to kind of consider this episode complete?

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Um, I think it's good as it is. I love being a seven. Yeah, I do. When I first learned about the Enneagram, I thought I was a three. And so I know, right? And then I said, oh shoot, I'm a seven, hot dog, you know. So I had to come to terms. I had to do the rumble and come to terms with being a seven. And that was a good, that was good for me. And so now I'm recognizing that the joy that I have and the career that I chose is a perfect match. And I said, I'm just gonna accept that and live in a place of acceptance and bring people from grief to freedom, and that's my mission. So I'm telling you, if you hurt me, hit me up because I'm here. Um and I'm I'm here to help. I'm here to help. Yeah. So thank you, Sarah. Yeah, well, thank you. For real. Thank you, because I was honored to be here, and this was a great conversation.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

It really was. I made I made it through. Thank you so much for for I was like, oh man, grief so heavy, and I just don't, but so I want to get into it. So you made this so accessible and just so um uh you know approachable. And and so I appreciate you, I appreciate you having this conversation with me. And um, like I said, there's just you know, there's a lot of changes letting things go um in in the world in general and and you know, individually too, I know. So um please connect with Olivia, reach out, let her know how she can help. And uh with that, I appreciate you, Olivia, so much. And we will see you listeners back here for another episode next week.