SPEAKER_04 0:00

It's been a few weeks since we've had a guest on the show, and today's episode is special because not only do we have a guest, but we have three guests in a panel discussion where we're going to hear from Kara, who is a photographer and identifies most with the type three two. Sorry, type two. We have Riley, who is in the group fitness space and helps other group fitness instructors and identifies as a type three. And then we have Lindsay, who is a communications teacher and has her own coaching practice around that as well, and most identifies with the type 9. Lindsay has actually been on the show before in episode 11 inside an on-air typing session where we were talking about type two, six, and nine, which all do have some similarities and can be confused. So if that is one of your those are one of your some of your top results, that might be a good episode for you to go back and listen to. Today's conversation is around change. What does it really mean to change? The difference between changing ourselves versus growing, what needs to change? Is it habits, patterns, the way that we talk to ourselves, or do is there something about us that needs to change? And um, I thought this would be a really this is a topic that has come up in some different conversations. And I thought, you know, I'd love to hear from some other people. So when I put out the the request via email, I was so appreciative of Kara, Riley, and Lindsay to have responded and been willing to get on air and share their thoughts and opinions. And uh yeah, just kind of continue to use the Enneagram in really practical ways. And really what this episode is about is yes, change and more importantly, there's all kinds of advice out there for how to change or how to grow. Um but we're really looking at how to expand what's already there, not change ourselves, but expand and um remove roadblocks and filter out all the good advice out there. Um, it just may not be all good advice for us. So the more that you can learn about yourself, and I think the Enneagram, you know, I think that the Enneagram is a great way to help us do that. The more um, the better that filter can work for you to let in what you need and then to keep out what's just going to be clutter or sometimes even harmful or sabotaging. So um, without further ado, let's hear from this week's guests. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Okay, so we are here with a panel today, which is always so fun. I love doing interviews, and I I also love um when there's more than one person to interview. So today is really special. We're going to get to hear different perspectives, which I think is always really helpful. Not just me telling you textbook Enneagram theory, but we're going to hear from three different Enneagram types. And then we're going to center the conversation around changing and changing ourselves and fixing ourselves and just some kind of questions on that. Um, I I did um I'm working on something now and I was doing some research, and there were, I think I told you guys, 1.6 billion search result results that came back to the question, how do you change yourself? And so we're gonna get into that because I think a lot of people, you know, there's things out there that tell us what we should do, who we should be. Um, and one of the reasons why I love the Enneagram so much is because it shines light on who you really are. It's kind of giving yourself permission and um to kind of just be that version and not somebody else. So we're gonna get into all of that. It's a juicy topic. Um, but let me introduce our guests first. Um, and actually, I'm gonna call on you to introduce yourself. And what I would love, I'm actually gonna start with you, Lindsay. I see you at the top. Um, I'd love to hear um where what you do, anything that you're working on, and then what type you most resonate with and what what about it makes you know that this is my type.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Okay, yes. So my name is Lindsay Bennett, and I help women who want to be a change maker for themselves. Like whether it's about themselves and how they talk to themselves or think about themselves, then I want to help them change that and love themselves more. Um, and then I also help women who want to change the dynamics of their relationships currently and then for future generations. Like maybe they want to change communication patterns that have no longer served them and they want to adjust or improve. So that's what I do. And I most resonate with Enneagram Nine. And the part about it is all about the name of Enneagram Nine is Peacemaker. And so I seek peace. I teach compassionate communication at a local university and interpersonal communication. And I infuse all different ways of how you can bring peace into your lives and your relationships. And so I seek after peace a ton.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

And we're gonna hear a little bit more about the type nine experience and working. So I'm excited to get into that. Um, Kara, I see you next on the screen. Would you introduce yourself, tell us about your Enneagram type and what about that resonates most with you?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Sure. Um, I'm Kara and I live in Arizona. I'm a photographer and I photograph families and seniors, and I also do branding uh to empower women's businesses. And right now is my busy season, so a little overwhelmed, but um I'm an Enagram number two, and um I am constantly seeking approval, which of course, when I shoot images for people, I constantly want them to say how beautiful they are. And so that really drives me and my business, and I'm very service-oriented because I want to help people have the best experience.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

See that, yes. Um, thank you, Kira. Riley, what about you? Introduce yourself. What is your type and what do you resonate most with?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

So I'm Riley Shyat and I live in Richmond, Virginia, and I am a physical therapist by education. Um, but since having children, I have been staying at home with them and I teach group fitness at a local YMCA, and then in the past couple of years, have started becoming a teacher of teachers. So I educate other instructors on how to teach different programs. And um I am an Enneagram type three through and through. And it just like when you when I listen to your podcast and I I listen to uh the type three, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's just that's me to a T. And I think the reason that it resonates with me so much is that I love to achieve goals. Like that is that is who I am. And my husband lovingly makes fun of me for that because I'll finish one thing and I'm like, okay, what's next?

SPEAKER_04 8:11

So yeah, that what's next, future focused energy. That is that is the three. Yep. Um, well, thank you. I I want to, we're gonna get into talking about change, but I thought we could first kind of start with where we're all starting from. Um, and so I would love to hear a little bit more too about your experience. And you don't, I don't think anybody here feels like they have to be an Enneagram expert, um, but just kind of talking a little bit about what do you like most about your type? Like, what do you see in yourself that you like most? That is a question um somebody somebody had asked me, and I was like, that's such a great question because I never think about that. It's like, oh, all the things that I don't like. So I thought we could do that. And then um also maybe talk about where you see it kind of present a roadblock in your life, but if there is a work example specifically, whether it's overhelping or whatever that might be, um, just to share that as well. So we'll answer those two questions and Lindsay, I'll start with you again.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Okay, so what I like best about being an Enneagram Nine is that I look for the good in others. And it's just like um this is both gonna be what I love and kind of like the double-edged sword. So I love that I look for the good in others because I am trying to find ways to have peace. And so by putting myself myself in their shoes, or at least trying to um, or seeing things from their perspective and like what got them to where they are. What kind of life experiences did they have that would lead them to this moment in time with me in this interaction where perhaps there might be some conflict. So I'm trying to find peace, or just learning about people. So I seek to understand people and where they came from. And by doing so, I look for ways to understand them and I look for the good. The double-edged sword part of that is that um, and I'm working on this, is that I often am just quiet because or I'm asking like what I call open, honest questions. So I'm wanting to learn about other people, and so I rarely talk about myself. So I often play small or um, you know, always turn the conversation over to somebody else. And so that can be a double-edged sword because then I might not ask for my needs to be met or say what I'm really thinking, or decide where I want to go eat one time, you know. So that's um that's kind of the double-edged sword for me of both that I like it and that I don't, because I'm wanting to ask about other people and do what they want, but then I often will cut myself short.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Isn't that how it is? We do this, yeah. It's like the same energy can can be expressed in all kinds of different ways. I have a quick follow-up question if you're willing to share. So Riley was talking about her type three energy being kind of goal-oriented, the things that she resonates with that, being that a nine can go to a three when they're kind of living their best life and really in a good place. How do you see that showing up for you? Or do you ever kind of notice your that three energy play out in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Yeah, so being future focused, like you described it earlier, the way that I see that playing out for me is that I do something called future scripting. And so I get into this place of peace and calm for me, again, with the peace. I like I said, I'm constantly seeking peace. And if I if I get too stressed out about my goals or my future, or I'm not measuring up enough to my goals according to society standards, then that's where I can get down on myself as well. But where with future scripting, it's like all in a place of peace and creating the life that I love and that I want. And the energy behind that and the intent behind that is that I know that I can do that. And it's gonna be on my own time and in my own way, not according to what society thinks that I should be doing. And so that's how I look at my future goals and I can feel peace within them instead of feeling like I'm doing this with my body, so podcast is but like I kind of like scrunched up a bit and like felt like I was coming in on myself. Um, instead of just like opening up my arms and like putting my shoulders back and breathing in deeply, and it's just a totally different energy for me.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Yeah, yeah. And one last question, Lindsay, I forgot to ask you. What do you have a wing that you resonate more with?

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Um, in terms of like one or eight, but I don't. Uh well, yes, I do. One, I think I resonate more with one, like where I used to. I'm I'm like mellowing a bit more on this or softening up a bit. Um, where I used to be a huge perfectionist. And if it wasn't perfect, then it wasn't good or it wasn't good enough or anything like that. And I was bad, like I did it wrong, and it was all my fault. Whereas now, um, I do still want things to be perfect, but perfect just looks different to me now. Like perfect has a different meaning than what it used to be for me. And perfect now includes more of like that expansiveness. And there are a lot of ways to get from point A to point B. And it doesn't, it doesn't have to be a certain way, which it used to be have it used to have to be a certain way before.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

I love how you said that. Thank you. Um, Kara, what about you? What is something that you love about the type two energy? And then where do you see it potentially kind of trip you up or be a roadblock in your life or in the business that you're running?

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah, um, being a two and um wanting to be a helper for people, I do think it is our responsibility as humans to help each other out. Um, I tend to do it a little bit too much where I ignore my needs sometimes. And um trying to cut back on that a little bit more. But in my business, it really helps because I'm I don't just pick up my camera and go out and shoot a picture. I guide my clients through the whole process, um, help them with styling and um, you know, have conversations with them beforehand so they feel comfortable. And when I get out there, um, you know, part of me being a two and wanting affirmations and wanting compliments and wanting to be accepted, um, I naturally give that to people. And before I was a photographer, I was a teacher. And so you have to give that to kids. They have to feel good about what they're doing, you have to praise them on their strengths and so forth. And so, as a photographer, when I'm out there in a session, it really helps people relax and feel good because everybody feels nervous when they go out and they have to pull, they don't know what to do. And so, me being natural at that, I like to help people feel good. And in return, I also want to feel good too. I want appreciation for the things that I do. And so that leads me kind of into where it can be a hindrance. Um, you know, I'm in my 50s, so now I have more wisdom than I did in the past, and also being aware of enneagrams and um how it too really plays a huge role in my life all the time. I now can reason with myself. I'm just waiting for people to react about their pictures and how wonderful they are and the service I've created. And I just I'm like that, but I realize now not everybody expresses them the same way. And so, you know, it's a constant mental battle of okay, you just need to accept the little that they're giving you, and that should be enough and they shouldn't be so dramatic about it like I would naturally be. And, you know, I know that when I give somebody a compliment, whether it be a friend or whether it even be a stranger, I'm just one of those people that will go up to someone and say, I love, I love your shirt, or I love your hair, or you know, whatever. Um, I'm just naturally like that. And so um, and I think we need that in this world. And I wish more people did that, but the hindrance that comes with, okay, why aren't I getting more back like that? So I have to constantly think about that. That you know, not everybody's the same.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

I think a lot of choos will resonate with what you said, Kara. Um, do you have a wing that you identify most with, a one or a three?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Um I would say I would probably well, and I'm I know more about three than I do about one. So listening to Lindsay about the perfectionism, I definitely resonate with that. Three, I do set goals and I need to be stimulated and challenged all the time, but I don't get down on myself if I don't meet the goals. I don't think three is really strong. But one, yes, I'm a total perfectionist. I know in my business, when I'm editing, I spend a lot of time trying to make everything perfect, everybody's session perfect, you know, just in every area of my life. Um I used to be more of a perfectionist, but I really think when you get in your 50s, you relax a lot in every way. It's nice. So I'm glad to be in this position, but I still feel like I have, you know, a little more work to do.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

You know, I'm just thinking, not that there's ever uh like the best career for any type, but just being a two. I know sometimes, like I've I've said, reading is reading people is your superpower. And so, like, what an amazing ability and a photographer. And then you have that one energy when you're editing, because that is another side of your brain, I probably that you know, you're in front of people one moment and then the next you're behind a computer. So that's just seems like a really great pairing with the work that you do. So um, thank you, Kara. Riley, what about you? What do you love about being a type three? And then where do you see it sometimes presenting a roadblock or uh maybe a recurring struggle?

SPEAKER_02 19:06

So I think what I like most about being a three is because I am so goal-oriented that I'm often the person that someone else comes to to get something done. And so that um, and I really love that. And I love being able to help others achieve things through whatever it is that I'm doing as well. So I think I have a lot of that um helper in me, that two side. Um, I really thrive off of being able to help others achieve their goals. Um, but when it starts to become a problem is I can't turn it off a lot. You know, like I have a really hard time when I have a day that's unproductive. That feels terrible to me. And I have to really give, I have to build in downtime for myself and really have some weird conversations with myself. Like, it's okay. You can sit and watch TV for a half of an hour. You don't have to be doing something right now. Because in my mind, there's just lists and lists and more lists than of things that need to be done.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

That is again spoken like a truthery. Um, so would you say that too is probably your wing?

SPEAKER_02 20:29

You know, I've been thinking about that some recently. I think so, but I think I'm not as familiar with the four as I need to be. So I'm not really sure. I do feel like there's a helping aspect to everything that I do, especially in my um function as a teacher, both as a teacher of exercise and a teacher of other teachers. I really what feeds my soul is that ability to help others grow, whether it's growth, you know, better physically or emotionally through exercise, or whether it's grow as an instructor. That really um, that piece of it really, really speaks to me and resonates with me. So I think it's the two, but I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Yeah, yeah. And wings can change and fluctuate. So it's just always kind of interesting. And I do like wings and subtypes because it just adds depth and dimension. Um, and there's even obviously more than that as individual human beings, but sometimes it's just it's just helpful um because you have, you know, three tens and or 10 threes in a room, and we all look different, or you all look different. Um, okay, so we have had, we've zoomed in on you as individuals. We're gonna come back to you as individuals, but before we do, I want to I'm gonna take a zoom out. And I would just love to hear kind of a general perspective, any thoughts, no right or wrong here, um, on people wanting to change and fix themselves. Especially women. And then especially when it comes to um juggling work and um some sometimes motherhood, being a friend, like right, we have all these jobs. And I think especially as women, we're trying to be like gold star amazing at every single one of them. And that involves like, oh, I need to be, I am I'm too much, so I need to tone it down, or I'm not assertive enough, I need to turn it up. And then it's constantly, well, that was too much, or oh, nope, still not enough. And then it's you know, there's all kinds of things about you know, the way we look, the um, you know, trying to be a good um mom and also employee of the year and you know, business owner of the year. So there's a lot of expectations. And actually, one of the reasons for this panel in the first place was um I was reading an article in Forbes and it said that there's 252 million female entrepreneurs in the world. But the reason why they still were not financially as successful as men is it came down to three themes. One was competence, one was networking, so being great at building relationships, but not leveraging them. And then the third one was trying to balance social expectations. And I thought that was really interesting. Because I was like, yeah, there is there is a lot going on there. So I'm just kind of curious on your thoughts um to kind of kick off this discussion. On I had mentioned, you know, how many people are kind of looking, how do you change yourself? Why do you think, um, in your opinion, like there's so many people wanting to be different than who they are? Lindsay, I'll come back to you to start.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah, I love this question because I think it boils to authenticity. I think it boils down for me anyway, from my perspective, it boils down to authenticity. And I'm I am a huge proponent of authenticity and being who you are because that's who you are, not because that's who you think that you're supposed to be. So it takes some time and um some reflection to get to that point. So I don't know, I just think that being authentic to yourself and not changing who you are to fit a mold that you think you're supposed to be, but changing who you are to come back to your core. So, like if you've gotten far off, like I have had this happen to me. Like you mentioned, you know, in business, I used to be in marketing for 12 years. I worked the nine to five and then some. I worked like 80 hours a week when I got out of the field. And it was, I was constantly trying to fit myself into the mold of what a marketing director, you know, that's what I ended up being, what that was supposed to look like. But along the way, I lost who I was. And I compare it to um, for me personally, when I was in that profession, it sucked the soul right out of me. And I was not who I was, I was not happy, I was not fulfilling anything that I really wanted to do. I was doing what other people wanted me to do, and I was not happy. And it was really starting to take a physical toll on me as well, as mental, emotional, spiritual, even. And so I thought this is not how life is supposed to be for me. Like, I don't want this life, and so I struggled with changes like changing where I live, changing like those big kinds of changes. I didn't struggle with changing me, but like where I live and all that, those big decisions. And so I knew that if I changed my career and my profession, that would be a struggle. And because there's so much uncertainty that comes with that. But I had to look to my core, like I said earlier, I had to come back to who am I? So I had to, it took some time to like strip away all these things that I thought that I was because that's what I thought I had to be. And so it took some time to get to know me again and who is Lindsay and and what makes her tick. And like Riley was talking about, what fills her soul, you know? And so that's why I wanted to change because I wanted, I'd gotten so far away from who I was that I needed to get back to and maybe even rediscover who I was because I had gotten so far off track. And now I shout authenticity from the rooftops. I like infuse it into my discussions in the university setting that I teach. Like I'm constantly having my students identify who they are, get back to that, like define um who gave them that identity. Is it you or is it your family or who? And um figuring out what your values are and really living in those values for you. So that I don't know that that really answered your question all the way around, but that's that's what I'm going with right now.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

So it did. It did actually have two follow-up questions if I can. Okay, so um, did you say that you had worked there for 12 years?

SPEAKER_03 27:11

I'd worked in marketing for 12 years. So I worked one for a little over nine and then another one for a little less than two.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Okay, so I'm just curious, and I have my own experience, so this is where this question is coming from. But what was the time link between you realizing because sometimes I think we're in like these soul-crushing places and we don't even realize it, and then we're awake to it, but then to actually change for some of us takes time. What was that for you between when you kind of woke up to that and then when you actually made that change?

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Yeah, it was years. So the first one was, like I said, a little over nine years, and that toward the end of that one, I was starting to feel my soul crushed. But I thought if I just change the environment, like I did, I did um, I did just like I can't remember if it's first order change or second order change. I think it's first order change where you just change the environment. It didn't really change anything. I was just in the same environment again, and so at first it was like new and fresh, and I was still doing marketing, but I was doing it for a different type of product and with different people, and so it was new and fresh and invigorating, and then it quickly became not that. So um I was there for a little over two years, close to three, and it's probably about six months in, it was back to soul crushing again. But it took me a while to realize I have to change. So, second order change is changing um more than just the situation. It's like changing internally, and so I had to change internally, like I said, to get back to who I was and what really fueled me with peace, like you know, where I could be at my best and thriving and also finding peace. Like I was thriving financially, but I wasn't thriving in all the other ways before.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm gonna come back to you for my second follow-up question. Okay. Um, Kira, what about you? What do you think? Just kind of big picture, what you notice, see in the world. I mean, at this point you have, you know, life experience too. Like, why do you think that so many people are wanting to change themselves, fix themselves in some way?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Um, and it's a lot different now than it was. And having, you know, almost grown children, I mean, they're 19 and 21 now. I see, you know, they're exposed to social media and watching them struggle with what they should do to fit in to that whole world as opposed to, you know, when I grew up and I was a young adult and didn't have that. Um, you know, I've actually tried a lot of careers, I've experienced a lot of things in my life, and I've never wanted to conform to what those jobs wanted me to conform with. And I would leave because it wasn't fulfilling and they weren't accepting me who I was. You know, I went to college to be in the movie industry, and I was a professional editor, and being in the industry, you know, it's it's what we all think. It's just a lot of schmoozing people and your connections, and that's not me. I'm very honest and down to earth, and I don't need to schmooze people to get my next job. That just wasn't for me. And it was um a let down and it was hard, but I left and then I became a teacher, which was so fulfilling. Um, and you know, it used to be where you could teach to fit your personality. I mean, there's certain standards you have to cover, right? You get to have those children learn, but now it's changed so much. It's it's pleasing certain people, and it's not the best for the kids. And so again, that wasn't I finally did early retirement because I, you know, it just wasn't, it wasn't me. It's not where I needed to be. It was um very hard to be in that kind of environment and people do things and education to meet other people's needs, to please other people, and that's not how it should be. So um now I'm finally on my own um with my own business. And um, you know, of course, you have your own business, right? It's uh you do need to please people to a certain extent, but I don't compromise my values. Um, you know, I have certain things that have been asked for me, and I am okay with saying, no, this is how I work, and um this is my client experience. And if they don't fit into my business, then I am okay turning down that business. So I, you know, I've never felt like I needed to change myself to fit into any sort because I there's so many opportunities out there, and I always felt like I grew up with a lot of skills. I did a lot of, I had a lot of experiences, and I felt like I could always go back to school or you know, which I've done twice. Um, I could find something else because to me it was more of um something fitting my personality um and my goals in life rather than making a bunch of money.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

So you were pretty clear on that from the beginning, it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I was that's one thing that I might say that I wish I could fix about myself. I wish I would have learned that lesson earlier.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Um for my kids, you know, I just see their focus on money because they're seeing all these people in social media rise to fame and they're struggling with, you know, they're both in college or struggling with trying to find that thing. And, you know, my husband and I have always said just choose something that you're passionate about. Every job is gonna have its ups and downs. There's always gonna be something you don't like about it, but do something that you like, and um just focused on too much money, you know. So um I think that has changed because we've never, you know, focused on that as a family.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

Yeah, that's maybe coming from the outside, um, for sure. And that's I mean, that's real, especially when you can see it so so easily with social media. Um, Riley, I'm curious on your thoughts as a type three, um, especially at the last part about what Kira said. It sounds like, you know, she's never felt like um she she's always had very clear kind of valve, like what are her values and money is not important and not not important, but that's not been the focus. Um, just curious how that sits with you as a type three.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah, I mean, I feel like my type is the type that likes to change a lot, right? They like to change so that they can, you know, meet everyone's expectation. Um, but I actually thought about this word a lot. And I feel like change is a word that I really don't like as much because I feel like it hints at I'm not good enough, so I have to fix myself. And I tend to want to think of change instead of instead of thinking about change, I like to think about how can I grow so I'm making myself better, but not fixing myself. And um, it's funny because the fitness industry is extremely youth focused, which wasn't a big deal until, you know, I'm almost I'm I'm almost 49 years old. So I'm someone just told me the other day, they're like, oh, you're almost in the active aging population. I'm like, what? I'm not that old, but I am, and it's and it's kind of it's a hard reality to kind of um or a pill to swallow, especially in the fitness industry, that where they're what they value is um how young you look and how thin you are, and how you know, just it's all about that type of thing from the outside. And that's that's who gets the attention. But what I've had to really like focus in on is how can I grow and how can I become more valuable to them without changing who I am. So, like you said, Lindsay, like being very authentic to who I am, I'm I'm not gonna go get plastic surgery. I'm not gonna starve myself, I'm not gonna do all those things so that I look younger and look, you know, it's it's not who I am. I feel like I have a lot to offer without all of that. Um, so I just I just kind of had to figure out how can I still be valuable in this industry and how can I grow as opposed to changing. And I feel like that is a lot of what our kids are focused on. Like they they want to just they want to change to to do whatever it is that they need to do to be as popular on social media and with their friends and all of that. And um, like you said, Kara, I think some of that has come with getting a little bit older. Like my kids, I have two in college now and only one at home, and starting to realize that it it really is about being who I am and not changing myself to fit that mold that I think I need to fit into.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

So good. Okay, so that's actually one of the questions that we're gonna get into in a second, the difference between change and growth. But just as a follow-up question for Lindsay and Kara, if you have anything else to add to this, um, just let me know, pipe in afterwards. But one of the things, so Riley was talking about, um, kind of in her industry and in her past experience, it's been about how young do you look, your your weight, your image, that kind of thing was kind of the ideal image. And, you know, whether you chose to like fully fit into that or not was kind of the the question for you, Lindsay. I'm curious, and Kira, again, if you had anything else to say about the teacher experience potentially, what was a like a trait or a quality that you felt like you needed to be, but it just wasn't who you were.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah. So I was thinking about this too. I've thought about this for a while, but I don't know if this is a trait or not, but a way to be was that I felt like I had to be in the nine to five grind. Like I had to be like, I don't know, I had I pictured myself as having to be in this like suit. I never wore suits, but I always felt like I had to wear a suit, even though I never did. Like to be the right kind of marketing director or marketing manager as I worked up, I felt like I had to be in like certain clothing and like love getting to work at nine or even sometimes showing it before because I was so excited to be there and like get going into this corporation, you know. And oh my gosh, it just was never me. Like I was the one in the meetings where, you know, like they're trying to be very professional, and I was still professional, but I was like, can we can we like get to know each other for a minute before we like dive right into the business at hand? Like, you know, whenever I would go into another person's office, I would want to sit and chit chat with them for a minute. And and it wasn't like people sometimes looked at me like, we are here to make money, time is money, like we do not have time, and this is weird to me. Like the time, like that you want to chat with me for a minute and get to know me. This feels unprofessional. Like I don't have relationships with people at work, and it wasn't that I wanted to be like be your best friend, but I wanted to have a rapport with you that was more than just like the brass tack, so to speak. So that was hard for me. And I felt like I was constantly like hitting up against this wall in trying to be me, but like, like, so now again, I'm like visual. So podcast listeners, so sorry, but I'm like, um, I'm acting like there's this clear box around me, and I'm trying to hit against it to break that box open and be me. Like, so that was a real struggle um to try to fit that mold and be so energetic to just be there and um and like fit all the expectations that a quote unquote businesswoman is supposed to look like. And that wasn't, I had a hard time with that.

SPEAKER_04 40:43

I okay, that's real. I'm gonna come back to you and ask you what you think a businesswoman does look like now. Okay. Um, but Kira, anything come up for you as like a specific quality or trait that was kind of presented as the way to be, the successful way that you just felt like you couldn't get on board with.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah, I have a real problem with how the society is changed with external rewards. You know, every sport that my kids were in and they've been doing sports since they were three years old, they get a trophy just for being on the team. And in my day, it was internal rewards. You know, we didn't get, oh, you know, you know, you got all this what whether it was verbal praise or you got a new toy or whatever, just for doing little things. Um, I think that we have gone too far off the deep end with that. And as a teacher, it was trying to fit into this mold of, well, we need to make our kids feel good. Well, that's not you shouldn't be doing that with giving them candy just because they were good that day. No, they need to be good because that's the right thing to do, or they should be getting an A just because they've tried hard. No, they're not an A student, they're a B student and that's what they're gonna get. And I always felt like some teachers and bad releasing this information in a way, but it's sad how parents and administration expect us to give good grades so that there aren't problems. And some teachers are giving easy grades so they don't have problems from the administrations and from the parents. And there's people like me who are being authentic and giving the grades that they deserve so they know to work harder for that other grade, what they need to improve about. It's not a it's not about praising the smallest little thing, it's about working towards a goal. And we've lost that sight.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

You know, that reminds me of like um like toxic positivity, like we're always have to be happy, we always have to be feeling good. And I'm sure things like that don't help that that mentality. Um Riley, anything else for you on like a is and because I didn't want to skip over that, I didn't ask you specifically, I just kind of took that, but any any specific trait or quality in your past life that you feel like, gosh, that was a that was a threshold for success, but I just didn't really feel like it was me.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Um no, I really, I mean, I think I kind of talked to that earlier, but I would just like to say that I think Karen, I probably parent exactly the same way. She's speaking my language. I wish you lived closer.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Um, I saw this funny meme. Uh I follow This guy, he has it's like rival dad. He's hilarious, but he's like, What's the trophy for like picking um four-leaf clovers in the soccer field and chasing butterflies? He's like, That's the trophy my child got or deserves. Um, okay, so Riley, I'll I'll you had mentioned um growth versus change. Um, I'm gonna come back to Kara. Actually, I'll start with you, Kara, after this and then hit up Lindsay. But I would love, since you kind of already touched on that a little bit, to hear as we start to wrap this up. Um what how do you define success now? Like, how do you define, like, how do you know when you're growing? I guess that's my that's what my question is going to be. How do you know when you're growing or when someone is growing?

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Um, well, I know when I feel like when that's a hard question to to answer. Um so I used to think talking about success, I used to think success was um the most people in my classes. Um could I be everything to everybody? So, you know, could I be the best teacher for the beginners and for the advanced people and for the people in the middle? And I felt like I was kind of um spinning my wheels a lot, and I really wasn't making anybody happy. Um, and so what I realized like over the almost 30 years that I've been an instructor, that I had to be who I was, which is not the beginner instructor, and that was okay. And what has happened is I've had to kind of let go of, well, this person doesn't like me very much, and say that's okay. Um, so I've kind of tried to redefine what I feel is success. Um, and and now a lot of what I feel is success is if my students, whether they're teachers or they're my students, um are they are they growing? If that makes any sense. Um that's what that's what I feel like success is at this point. Can they do more? Are they better instructors? Are they able to achieve more in the gym? That kind of thing. That's really how I feel like I have classified my success.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

Okay, I know that you're more than a textbook um chapter, Riley, but I just have to say I was reading this Enneagram and leadership book over the weekends, and that they act, they that's exactly how they described a growth for a three is that like the stereotypical three is very focused on success and working hard and getting their worth from money and titles, all that. But then you're at the next level when you are helping others get those things and and being successful. So I just reflecting that back to you, but I, you know, I know you have your own experience that just jumped out at me.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Um, no, I mean, I think that's um that's how I that's how I've grown, I feel like over the past few years. It used to be the success was more about me and and now it is more about others. And and I realize that that's actually what feels better to me. Not not all the other stuff. Like it's it's it's about me, but it's not about me, if that makes any sense. You know, that that makes me feel good and feeds my soul, like I said before.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

Yeah, I absolutely love that. Um Kara, do you want, would you be willing to go next and share like what when someone says growth versus change, what does that mean? Like, what do you see as the difference? And then what would you how would you determine if somebody's growing or what does success look like to you now?

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Yeah, I've thought a lot about that question. I think that's a really complex question. Um I do think well, I think growth is more of changing to make ourselves better. I think um we don't change completely. I think we can change a lot in a lot of areas, and I'm not talking about the physical sense and the mental growth and the um you know psychological and all that. Um I have grown a lot over the past few years, and for me, um, growth for a number two is more realizing. Um, and I'm so glad that I found you, Sarah, because I've heard of Venigruns before, but I never dove into it that deep. And it has really helped me to just realize why I feel the way that I do. And of course, there's other factors that go into it, you know, genetics and the way you're raised, environmental factors and all that. But um, and there's some thinking to be done with all of that as well. But you know, the basics are knowing how I am and how I strive for people appreciating me and listening to me and understanding me. That's that's a constant battle in my life. Um, it helps me to realize that, okay, this is the way I am. And although I still am that way, um, I know not to expect it to a certain extent. And sometimes I'll even joke about it and say, well, could you just let me know how you feel about this? Because I'm an enigram too, and I'm excited tonight. Um so, you know, I'm still growing in my 50s, and I hope I'm still gonna be growing, you know, to the very end. I think it's so important, and um I'm constantly seeking ways to grow, you know. Um my kids are not as much in my life, right? They're in college. Um so I think now is a really good time to focus more on the growth because you're so overwhelmed with just raising your family and working and all that other stuff and social stuff, that now I get to focus a little bit more, you know, on me. And um I think what comes with that is being more social. So I'm trying to reach out more there because it's different in business than it is socially. I think we learn a lot about ourselves being in a social situation. Um I I have changed a lot since I was a young lipper snapper, I'd say. So I do think change in a big way is possible, but we really have to work on it. And I have always been reflective and uh, you know, I have a lot of anxiety, and that plays into it. But every day I do reflect on the day. How could I be a better person? What do I need to do to be a better person? If I've wronged somebody, I need to apologize. Um, I need to nurture certain relationships more. And I think that reflection on your Enneagram number and just who you are and how you interact with everything, business and personally, really does help us grow.

SPEAKER_04 51:51

I love everything you said, Kara. Um, and that, yeah, and that is even you asking um for feedback because you say I'm an Enneagram too. Can you tell me what you think? That's you're just asking for what you need. So I mean, that's kind of you're kind of doing that. You know, I consider that that growth for the two. So thank you. Um, okay, Lindsay, I'd love to hear your thoughts. And then I got the final question for us.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Okay. So my thoughts on growth versus change for me personally is that I feel like I'm growing in who I am if I'm like thriving or blooming, so to speak, if we want to keep it in the grow um metaphor. But I feel like I'm living my fullest life to my core. So putting it in my in perspective of my business. So I teach at the university, but then I also have a business where I teach online. And in both of those instances, I used to, like in the past, I would have compared myself to um other teachers. Like, is my classroom like it's supposed supposed to be, quote unquote, um, by comparing it to other teachers? Well, I had to figure out what's my teaching philosophy to my core, like even down to that, like what's my authentic teaching philosophy to who I am. And I so, so figuring out, so going back to the teaching really fast, like I, the conversation that Kara and Riley were having earlier. I'm I'm sort of one of those teachers that wants to give everyone an A. Like, I the way that I conduct my classroom is it's a very cozy, warm, like this is college. Okay, I teach college. Um, and so, but my students are like, this is a different space. Like they can, they we do breathing activities, like we do self-care at the beginning of every class. We do three minutes of self-care, and I have like a gentle teaching style. And one of my students the other day said, you know, I don't know if you have beef with any of your students because I cannot tell. The way that you run this classroom is that we are all like he didn't say lovely, but I would say lovely. We're all lovely people and you like us, like you want us to be around. And he's like, So if you have problems with someone, I cannot tell. And that's because I want their inner teachers to learn. And so I have discovered for my classrooms that if I want them to learn, then I'm not going to conduct my classroom like another teacher does. That's their style. And my style in my classroom is I want you to come, I want you to be there, I want you to like being there because then your inner teacher is not going to be on guard. It's peace in the classroom, like through and through. I have peace in the classroom, and I want them to feel at peace when they're in my presence. And so that's how I do it. And it it just stabs my heart when I have to give someone a failing grade. I had to do it the other day. And I'm like, here's your grade, here's all this feedback. Can we please talk? Can we talk after class? I want to like soothe any struggles that you might be feeling internally about this because I know that they are much more than a grade. And so I want them to leave my classroom, not thinking that they're a grade, but knowing that they can do better and um because that's who they are. And like I can see it in them. And so that's my philosophy on that. And so, like, that's me thriving in my classroom, not feeling like I have to be somebody else and enforcing their roles in my classroom. No, my department head said, Lindsay, your student reviews are like little love letters to you. What are you doing? And I'm like, I am teaching with compassion. I bring peace into the classroom. It is a thing, and everyone needs to be doing it. So that's how I can know that I'm growing because I'm thriving in my classroom and my students are as well. Like Riley said, I can see light bulbs going off in them, and they're having a different experience than they do in any of their other classes, and they're remembering it and they're learning, and it's becoming who they are as well. Like I teach interpersonal communication, and so that is that's a huge skill that they need to learn how to do for the rest of their life in every way. And so, and that's what I do with my business too. Like, I used to compare myself to other business owners, and I'm like, no, that I'm gonna be authentic to me, and that's where I feel like I can breathe better and I am growing and blossoming.

SPEAKER_04 56:38

Yes. There's so much, yeah, there is a lot of type 9 energy in that. I love when you said uh gentle teaching style. I was like, oh my God, yes, so good. Um, but you know, we need we need all of it, and it's like that that's what I and I think it really just comes down to intentionality. I think it was Kara who was kind of talking about being aware and and doing things more purposefully, taking inventory on a daily basis to kind of be aware and and bring that. Um so I love that. Okay, last question is a two-part question. Um, there's a lot of talk about, like we've talked a lot about changing to be successful, kind of a little bit about what does success look like for you. But just on a even zooming out, there's also a lot of talk these days about oh, living your best life, the your best self. Um, I would be so curious to hear what your version of a best life or highest self is. And then would you follow up with how people can connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Sarah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 57:45

This is so I don't ever forget to pick up my son. Alexa's joining us. She's joined us before on the show, so I'm sure you've heard of her. I forgot that it was right at two. So luckily today I don't have to pick up my son, so he's not getting left behind. Um, but well, in the second part of that, and we'll start with you, Riley, is um, where where are you hanging out? Where can people say, loved what you said, learn about what you do? Um, so follow up with that.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Okay, so living my best life. That was your first question, right? What does that look like for me? Um, I set goals and I achieve them. That is my version of living my best life. I need to do, I need to do um a little bit more um intentionality, probably like Kara was saying. I need to probably sit down with myself and think about what I need versus what I just externally want to do. Um, so that would be also a way that I could live my best life is to being a little more purposeful about what it is that I'm doing as opposed to just trying to achieve the next goal. Um, so you can find me in a couple of different places, but they all kind of have the same name. Um, I am on Instagram and Facebook as Riley Shia Fitness. Um and I don't know if you're gonna put this in the notes because you my name is not a very common name. Um, and then I also have a website that is also RileysiaFitness.com. So you can find me in all of those places.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

Okay, and then we'll just say Riley R-I-L-E-Y and then Shia S-H-A-I-A. And it will be in the show notes, but just in case anybody's listening and just wants to look it up right now. Yes, thank you. Yes, you're welcome. I do that. That's I'm walking and I'm Googling sometimes and listening to podcasts. Um, okay. Um, Kara, what about you? What would be your definition of your best life? And then where can people learn more about your photography work?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

Living my best life means balancing between everything. Um, and I feel like the past few years have been a lot better for me. Um, I do have the the listeners can't see it, but I do have a schedule that's color-coded. And I literally put my work hours, my relaxation hours, you know, I take lunch, I watch a little TV, I take a nap every day, I do meditation every day, I work in my social activity during the week. Um, you know, things sometimes change and are spontaneous, but for the most part, I try to balance everything. And I tell you, it really has made a difference in my happiness and other, you know, meeting my own personal needs and meeting others' needs, you know, especially as women, we wear a lot of hats. Um I wish I would have thought of this sooner, but at least I'm doing it now, you know. But I feel I am living my best life. I'm um I know that we always need to keep growing and accepting ourselves first of all, but growing in the way that we need to grow for ourselves to feel happy and fulfilled. And um, that's what I'm doing. Um, people can find me uh in a lot of places, but I'll limit them. Um I'm on Instagram and it's Kara Hendricks Photography, K-A-R-A, and Hendricks has a CKS. I do have a website, same name, Kara Hendrix Photography. I'm on Facebook, Hendrix Photo, and um you can find a million things under my name if you just google my name. So I've been doing this a while.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:56

Now let me ask, do you just do the Arizona region or do you travel?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

I just do the Arizona region. Okay, but I'm open to travel.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:07

Okay, okay, yeah. Um, you know, you just said what I'm currently working on. Um, well, not currently, but probably will forever be working on as a seven. Um, just being content and satisfied with where I'm at. And I I just love what you said about you're living your best life now, because for me, I when I think about that, I'm like living in Paris, eating chocolate somewhere, and I'm like kid free. Yeah, Lindsay's like me too. Yeah, let's go to Paris together. Um, but it's like, well, I balance, you know, wanting to have those things and those experiences with also like being content and satisfied and believing that I'm living my best life today, even if it's boring, quote unquote boring, you know. So um I appreciate what you said. That was really good. Um, Lindsay, what about you? What does living your best life look like? And then where can people learn more about you?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:03

Yeah, so living my best life, I would define it in two different ways. And one is in a word from Denmark called hoogah. If you've heard of that before or not, it's spelled H-Y-G-G-E. Hooga is how you pronounce it. And it is a word that means like you're living your cozy, comfortable, content, peaceful life in whatever place you are, whether it's in Paris at a cafe eating a chocolate croissant, or I'm down here in Utah somewhere, you know, walking across campus. So it's or in my home, it's wherever you can create those spaces and whatever that looks like to you. And so when I'm in my hookah, is when I'm living my best life. The other part is when I'm communicating with care. And that to me means compassion, authenticity, reflection, and emotional intelligence. So that's what care stands for for me. Um, and so that's what I do, that's what I create. Those are kinds of the spaces that I create online as well. And so you can find me on TikTok, Instagram, and my website is all the same name with Lindsay Bennett, and it's with an AY for Lindsay and two N's, two T's for Bennett. So TikTok, Instagram on my website. And then you're you can also find me on Facebook. I have a group called Fierce Self-Love with Lindsay Bennett, and I do things in there to help you love yourself more fully and fiercely and create the life that you love, whatever that looks like for you, whatever Enneagram type it is, whatever the life you love looks like, I'll help you create it because you'll love yourself fully and fiercely.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

I love that. So just to recap, um, and if you this will be kind of the last like final final. If you guys have anything to add to this, just let me know, raise your hand or just speak up. If not, no pressure. But some of the things that I got from today about kind of how to change slash grow and be the best version of yourself. Um, Lindsay, you had talked about values, and I think you that's kind of been a theme for you is identifying what do you believe in. I think Kira mentioned that a little bit too. And we'll really all three of you. Um, just like identifying what is going to be your code. What is it? How do you call it haiga? Hooga, hooga, hooga. How does yeah, what is your hookah? Identifying that. Um, you had also talked about that future kind of casting, like what do you want your life to look like? Loved your taking inventory of the day, Kara. And then um, Riley, I just love what you were saying about just the feeling of success that you feel when others are successful. And I I think that it's different for us all, but especially there's a lot of us who are service providers, um, teachers, coaches, consultants, and we Have clients that we work with in a group or one-on-one. And I think so many times we can get on a call or even get on a live video or a podcast and think it's all about me. Oh my gosh, what am I doing? Am I doing this right? You know, how how do I look? And then when you kind of shift that perspective to like, how could I help? And just reminding that I think we all have that intention, but it gets clouded kind of with our ego and not wanting to look ridiculous. Um, so that is something that I'm going to take with me as well, that that reminder. Um, any other last words or anything that you want to share that I haven't asked you about or any of your own recaps that you want to you want to share before we call this episode complete? I would love to know as a seven, how do you live your best life? Oh, that's such a good question. I mean, that is something that I'm really having to work on because for me, um, I think that it I don't have it yet. And so I'm constantly, I really I mean, it's so true. I hate to be a stereotype, but I mean, it is like I'm living in my head, I'm planning, I'm like dreaming. And then even when I get there, um, I don't know if you can relate to this, Riley, as a type three with goals. Um, I then am like, oh, this is like so underwhelming. This is not at all what I thought. So for me, I will say like my best life um is like hiking in the woods with my dog, walking on the river, um, just like yesterday walking around the zoo with my son. And those type of moments I'm I'm appreciating so much more than I have before I really become aware of how much like I was just I was missing my life really, because I was so living in the future. Good question. Love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

I would just like to say, I mean, and this is Enneagram podcast, so yeah. Um, but I think that there's so much value to figuring out what type you are, because I feel like that has really helped me grow. Because if you know where you're starting from, you can figure out where you want to be and how to best achieve that knowing who you are and staying authentic to yourself. So I would just encourage anybody who is listening to do that so that they can grow.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:27

Yeah. It's a lot of times people say it's like a personality assessment, and I can see why it would be that, but I like to think of it as like a development map. And it is like your type is where you're starting from, um, but not where you have to stay. That's great. Well, I appreciate you all so much for giving your time and all that you shared and your thoughts. I got so much from this. I know the listeners will will definitely put all the links at the bottom. Um, as a listener, you know, I know that it's not um easy to come on and share your thoughts and your opinions with people who you who you don't know. So if you got anything, which I know that you did, um, reach out to the guests, let them know what you loved. I know that it means the world to the guests when they hear from you. So um take the time to do that if you will. And uh, ladies, I appreciate you being here. And I will, I'm sure, see you around social media. All right. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:25

Thanks.