Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Hi there, Sarah Lanier, certified Enneagram coach and visibility consultant that gets to work with women in business on passion projects and leadership positions to help them use the Enneagram to know, like, and trust themselves and their decisions so that they can build a personal brand and get visible to people who know, like, and trust them. And today's question comes from somebody over on Instagram. So if we're not already connected over there, you can find me at Enneagram MBA. And the question was around what are the differences between a three and a five? The three is known as the achiever, the role model, the performer, more accurately, I think is a good one for that, versus the five, the thinker, the expert, the observer. So at their core, the three is driven by the need to be seen as successful and they're running away from failure. Anything that could put them in a position to not have the status, not have the money, not have the title can feel really scary because they get their worth from how successful others see them. At their best, though, they can be really authentic, really confident, and really motivating and inspiring to others, hence why they get that name, the role model sometimes. The type five at their core is driven by the need to be capable, competent, and self-sufficient. The worst thing in the world would be to be in, to be seen as incompetent or to be incompetent and to be reliant on someone else for something just makes them feel really uncomfortable. At their best, they are innovative, they are visionaries, and can be really perceptive. There are some similarities, which is why the confusion may happen. Really, two key ones that we're gonna look at. And there are some key differences, and we're gonna look at eight of those in this mini training video. The first similarity is that both the threes and the fives, along with the type ones, are in this competency group on the Enneagram, which means they really value competency, especially when it comes to problem solving conflict. So rather than get really emotional or even look on the right side of things, those in this group tend to use data and logic, analyze the problem, really go into problem solving mode when these situations come up. So a three is gonna kind of express that as a way, like, listen, I'm sure that there is an efficient solution. We just gotta get to work on it like right now. Let's put our heads down and get to work. And a five is gonna think, listen, show me the data, don't give me the drama. I'm sure we can let's analyze this, what's going on, let's do some research before we jump into a decision. Um, let's make a really solid, well thought out decision so that we can put that into action later. Um, the other similarity is that three sometimes think that they are thinkers, um, even though they're in that heart center of intelligence, the five is in the head center, so very much in their head. But the three sometimes think they are too because they are feelings repressed. It doesn't mean that they don't have them. It means that they tend to just not use them productively. And in this case, a lot of times shove them down because they're not efficient. They get in the way of the goal. And so they may they may think that they think a lot and and they do, but their initial reaction is that feelings, but then they're gonna put the feelings aside and then move into thinking. Um, and competency can be really valued, right? It can be a symbol for how smart you are, how successful you are. So there is a value on that. It's just the reason why they're doing it has to do with obtaining some sort of reward or symbol. Whereas for a five, a lot of times it's for themselves to protect themselves, and then also for the enjoyment of learning themselves. Um, the other that, so that's kind of the first big difference is they both value competency, but the reason why is a little different. The second one has to do with feeling. So a three, I just mentioned, is in that heart center of intelligence. So they will initially have an emotion, they will have a feeling, they may even recognize it, but they're gonna put it away because they're thinking, I'll come back to that later when there's more time. Right now I'm really focused on the goal. I can't let my feelings or the feelings of others get in the way of this project, this goal. We're we're moving fast and we're going far here. I'll come back to that. Whereas a five sometimes is so disconnected from their emotions that they don't even realize in real time that they're having a feeling. It will be maybe hours, days, sometimes even months later before they come back around to it and start to process it then. Um, the thing, the third thing to look at is around social skills. So threes are known as a chameleon sometimes. They're they will shape shift into who they need to be for that situation, for that event, for that client, for that meeting, for that person, whatever it might be. They know they can read a room, it's their superpower. You think of like politicians sometimes, who I need, who do I need to be, and let me be that person now. Whereas a five sometimes will experience social situations as more energy draining, even um with people that they really know well for long extended amounts of time, it eventually will start to drain them. Um, and so they'll need some space to recharge their emotional boundaries, where threes don't have that so much. That won't be something that they they're thinking about so much. Um, as far as taking action, a three is in that assertive or aggressive stance with the sevens and the eights. So they're thinking into the future, but thinking what needs to be done, what's the goal in the future? Let's jump into action and like make it happen, looking at what's the most efficient way to get there from point A to point B. Whereas a five is in the stance with the fours and the nines, as known as the withdrawn stance, they get their needs met by going within. It doesn't mean that they never take action, it just means they're going to be much more, um, probably much more slower because they're spending much more time analyzing, researching what the right action should be before they jump into it. Remember, competency is really important. So, in order to, whenever you put yourself out there into action, you're you are putting yourself, um, you're putting yourself out there. And so they don't want to, they're not ready to do that yet until they've made a solid, sound, well-researched, well-analyzed decision. The other thing to to look at is kind of fun to think about or just kind of a different way to look at this is what each tends to be hiding. So a five or a three tends to be hiding who they really are. Um, their core emotional struggle being in the heart center of intelligence is around shame and hostility. Shame and that they are not actually who they are presenting to be. If people knew the real them, what would people think? They're maybe not as successful, they don't feel as successful as they are, have it together as much as they look like on the outside. And then the hostility can come in when listen, I have worked so hard in creating this perfect image, and when it's not recognized or accepted, they can feel hostile. Whereas a five, um, maybe more secretive, not about who they are, but maybe what they're working on. Because in order to share that or to put that out there involves some vulnerability that they may not know everything just yet. And then also it involves energy. So it can feel draining for somebody to have somebody come in mid-project and start to question them, or even if it's like, hey, I'm curious, what are you working on? Um, and so it's they're gonna, they're going to maybe hide what they're working on so they can avoid having to share it and then also having to put themselves out there before it's ready. The thing that gets a three stressed out is by that feeling that they need to be accomplished and they need to be doing everything. They need to be working towards the status symbol, this level of success. So they have to keep their guard up so others won't actually see their vulnerability and their insecurities, which can be incredibly draining and what and why they sometimes get the the um the reputation for being workaholics because it's constantly working, constantly working. They don't have to deal with thinking or looking in the mirror. Who am I really? What do I really want? I'm just working towards this goal. Um, but all at the same time, that can be incredibly stressful. Um, the five will get stressed when they have emotional demands put on them. Somebody's wanting their time, somebody's wanting their energy, and that can feel stressful because they feel like I only have a limited amount here. I can't be giving you all, giving it all to you in this emotional situation or for your problem or for this situation. Um, so that can feel really stressful when someone's making demands on their time and the energy. Um, the coping mechanism, the go-to coping strategy. We we have multiple ones, but for a three tends to be hard work. And we just throw myself into my work and then also adapting or reinventing themselves to be who they need to be. We've kind of talked about that chameleon way. Um, a five coping strategy is going to be to be, okay, I'm self-reliant here. I don't rely on anybody else for help. And really, I don't offer a lot of support for others. I want to minimize my physical and emotional needs so that I can survive, right? So that I can maintain um I can maintain my energy, make sure I have enough to go around. So that's an interesting consideration. And then the last one to look at is when they exhaust their own coping mechanisms, defense strategies, they will move to a different number. For a three, they will take on the stressful qualities of a nine, which will look like kind of numbing out. Um, maybe they're working all the time and then all of a sudden they just crash and burn. And then for um, or or they may continue to be busy and continue to be working, but at it it is the the what's the law of diminishing return where they're not prioritizing what they need to prioritize in. They're busy, but they're not actually accomplishing something. And then for a five, um, they move to a seven in stress. So they take on those frantic qualities, the scatteredness, the inability to focus. And so you have all these ideas going on in your head, all these things you want to look into, but it becomes rather than focus, strategic, um, visionary, um, perceptive, it's oh my gosh, there's so many things going on, and you're you're all over the place and unfocused. So that's something to consider. How does stress look to you? So there's lots more things to get into, differences to get into, but hopefully that will help. Remember though, at the end of the day, it comes down to that core motive that makes a three of three and a five of five. You can have the qualities at any time. You can harness those of others, and it's not necessarily who you want to be, but it is who you are or what is actually driving you, not what you wish was driving you. Um, because then you can get on the right path, the right growth path for you, and eventually grow out of those stereotypical tendencies anyway, and be really intentional with who you are, what your behaviors are, um, and and and not have to fall into that stereotype. So if this is something you're interested in, still not sure what your type is, I have a know your number sessions that you can find at Enneagramba.com forward slash knowyournumber. We'll dive into all these things and help you uncover what type you really um that's really driving the bus. And then if you're already getting clarity on what it is that you do, but you're still not sure how to actually use it. I have a really fun new program called Around the Enneagram in 80 Days. And you can check that out at Enneagram.com, um, Enneagram MBA.com forward slash around the Enneagram. And there we'll work for 80 days to go through specific key pieces of your Enneagram type and actually talking about how to apply them in the work that you do, the projects that you want to bring to life, the relationships that you have. So would love to see you in one of those. Until then, if you have ideas for a future this or that, drop them in the comments below. And if this was helpful, I always love hearing um from you what was an insightful, funny, or maybe even a cringy takeaway. All right, I'll see you.