SPEAKER_00 0:00

Imagine if you could know right now what that recurring challenge or maybe challenges were going to be in your future relationship. Maybe you just met somebody, maybe you haven't even met them yet, but you could know right now what those problems were going to be, what those fights were going to be about, so that you could be prepared for them and also potentially prevent them from happening as often. Or what if you could better understand the repeat issues that keep coming up in your current relationship? And if you could predict what will trigger the next fight. We are not talking to a mind reader today. We are not talking to a psychic, but we are going to hear from a guest who's going to lay out for us using her relationship expertise paired with the insight from the Enneagram to help us understand what these recurring challenges are for each of us by type. My guest today is relationship coach and no freel's coaching founder Natalia Hernandez. She is back from last week where she shared all about her type 7 entrepreneur experience. Back this week to share a common challenge that each Enneagram type will most likely, not always, not for everyone, not every time, right? But most likely face in their relationships and what to do about it so it doesn't keep happening as often. So this was a really fun interview. If you happen to be a type 7 or want to better understand somebody who is a type 7 in your life, go back to episode 65, either right now or after this episode, and check that one out with her. It is very specific to working and living as an Enneagram type seven. And then in this one, we take that zoomed out approach and looking at all nine types. I'll also tell you, I did my best to edit this out, but Natalia and I were laughing at the end. We had thunderstorms and wind issues. We had internet connection issues. We had kids in the background. We had dogs barking. We had robots going off and talking to us. And I won't say her name, just in case you have one too. And she goes off. I think you know who I'm talking about. We had all the things keep interrupting us. Um, but we made it through, and I'm so glad we did. I think you're really going to enjoy this one with my guest Natalia Hernandez. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. What would you say is one of the most common challenges that couples that come to you are facing? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So the biggest one I would have to say is thinking that the relationship as a whole is the problem. Like there is some major problem that is either unsolvable or just out of their control, out of their hands, when in reality it's about the one person and then the other person. And then there's the team issue. So that's probably one of the biggest challenges that I see is that they come in thinking that everything is, you know, falling apart, or you know, there's no way around what their issues are without really realizing that it's actually individuals and the team, not the team itself that is the big problem.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

So interesting. Okay, so what you're saying is people are thinking kind of like all or nothing.

unknown 4:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Like it's throw it away, or it's the best relationship ever, and there's no room for gray. Is that what you're saying? That's exactly what I'm saying. It's all or nothing thinking when really it's like shades of gray. One of the things that you had talked about was, I think this kind of tees up some of the conversation that we'll have, is sometimes people might feel this way, maybe not about themselves, but maybe about their partner where they they feel like they'll never change. That's just who they are. You can't teach a dog new tricks. What would you say to somebody who just feels kind of like I just don't think that they'll ever change, or maybe I won't ever change? What do you say to somebody who's thinking that?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

So it might be a hard pill to swallow, but they won't. So a lot of times um I have the clients come in either separately or with their partner, and they point, and it's a very common thing to do is pointing fingers, right? Well, if this other person would change, then X, Y, and Z would be different. And what's really important to realize is that the only person that can change is ourselves. And one person can change an entire relationship. It really can. And it comes down to being able to resolve conflict, knowing where you're coming from and how you show up to the conversation. So instead of looking at someone and listening to them and waiting to reply back, you're not really listening to them. You're not understanding where they're coming from, you're just ready to jump, you know, jump in and say what you need to say to get your point across. So it's really learning to listen to understand and not really reply.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Okay. And you had shared somewhere that you might think that you have a relationship problem, but really it's a communication problem. And how have you used the Enneagram and the work that you do with couples, coaching to help navigate better communication?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah. So whether they're coming to me individually or with their partner, I break down in detail what their types are and I help them understand that it's not that one person is coming from a selfish place or in a place to hurt them. They're coming from this place because of all of their past experiences. So the way they may communicate something to you really comes from their prior experience. So for me, for example, if I'm in an argument, my initial reaction for me will be to want to walk away or to run away because I'm uncomfortable as a seven with conflict. I don't know how to handle it and process those emotions. The other person might think that I don't care for them or that they don't matter to me, but it's not about them, it's about me. It's because I don't know how to properly communicate. So I really bring that up to their attention that it's not that the other person is dismissing you or arguing with you or has a problem with you. It's that they have their own issues that they haven't figured out yet or solved that they're bringing into this relationship. And so you might think it's about you, but one of the biggest things I highlight is the good news is this isn't about you. It's about the other person.

unknown 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

So it's really about understanding ourselves and how we can change and potentially like where those blind spots are. And the Enneagram gives us all this kind of stuff. What I would love to do is maybe run through a common challenge that you have seen in the work that you do come up with each specific type, knowing that this is not the only problem, that this is not everyone will have this problem, right? But just some common tendencies, um, kind of just for fun. And then I also do think that this might be be helpful and maybe start us thinking about both of ourselves and then better understanding others, maybe asking better questions, having that additional insight. So are you ready? Ready. Okay. So we'll start with our type ones who are striving to be perfect. Um, I know that they have a focus, a lot of time on doing the right thing, a lot of structure, a lot of routine. Where might a type one run into a relationship challenge?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

So I actually currently have two type one clients. And not to sound stereotypical, but type ones really are heavily focused on what's right and wrong and organization. And a lot of their issues, whether it be in relationships or in their career, right? In their workplace, is the same thing. It's learning, okay, not everything is going to go according to plan, not everything is going to be black and white. Let's find the gray, what's okay, right? Instead of looking at how can this be perfect, you know, sort of reframe that to how can this be good enough for now?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

So good. Okay. What about the type two who's really striving to feel connected and loved and appreciated? Where might they run into some issues in their relationships?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Oh, type twos are so giving and just so full of love, right? So the beauty of that is that they will always be there for you, right? Help out. They're they're great at just being there for you and loving on you. And also, one of the challenges can be is that if that doesn't come back to them, then they can feel slighted, right? Like it's almost then they will go above and beyond and do a little bit extra to see if maybe then you're gonna reciprocate the love. And then if that doesn't happen, then they can get really deflated and you know, not feel their best because what they thought didn't return. So it's just to keep that in mind that make sure when you're giving on the love and you're being there for other people that it's coming just from your heart, from that genuine place, and not because you necessarily want something back.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Okay, my boyfriend is a is a type two, and we have had it's just been really interesting how he's gotten into the anyagre, and it's given us this language to like say what we need or like what the problem is. And one of the things that he has coined with that energy is like giving with hooks and just like checking in like, am I giving to get, like you're saying, or is this truly just like giving unattached? Um, okay, so our type threes are driven towards this want to feel outstanding and successful and accomplished. And I think we can all fall into like workaholism, but threes especially kind of get that stereotypical rap for being hard workers, working all, all always working because they're driving towards that. So I could see how that could be a problem if you're in a relationship. Um, do you see that a lot? Um, what would you say to somebody who is is kind of dealing with that, maybe as the person or maybe in a relationship with somebody like that?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I think one of the things that they can ask themselves is if they're going to take on another project or if they want to stay later at work, right? Something simple that they can ask themselves is am I neglecting family? Or am I neglecting my home? Right. If I want to do this extra thing, or if I want to stay up working late, right, is this going to take away from my family? Because a lot of times the three can have sort of horse blinders on when it comes to work and they will just go, go, go, go, go. And then it's not at the end of the day that they feel exhausted and overwhelmed. And then at the same time realize, wait, I spent no time with people that I genuinely actually love and care about. So it's checking with that of where am I possibly neglecting if I take this on on top of everything else that I've got.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Okay. So we have our fours who are striving to feel unique and significant. And I have some thoughts on this, but I would love to hear like, does do you see a common communication challenge, relationship challenge with our type fours? And if so, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yes, I think um for me, I find two things. One, and it again, this might sound hard or harsh, but they really, because they can easily sit with their emotions, a lot of it can fester and become all about them. So it can be easier for four to live in their worlds and in their hearts and their minds of all the sort of things that are bothering them and then end up weighing them down. And that kind of segues into you know, watching movies or listening to music that's so emotionally charged, and that can really disconnect them sometimes from the reality of their work and their home life. So it's just that that delicate balance of loving that a four can feel their feelings and have no problems with it that helps them navigate really what they want to do in terms of goals and their desires and their home life, but just making sure to check in that it doesn't become wrapped up into who you are versus what you're feeling.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

So good. Okay. And then what I will also say, like I have a four in my family as well. And so just even what you're saying, I think is maybe you don't have a significant other. Maybe you're um, or maybe that's great, but there's you know, family challenges or friend issue. I just haven't finding all of this like so insightful and helpful for really any type of relationship, better understanding where that person is coming from. Um, okay, Natalia, what about our type fives who are known as the observer, the investigator, really wanting to feel like capable and competent, really focused on being self-sufficient. Where might they run into a challenge? And I know your husband is this one, so you probably have some personal stories for us. How long is this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Um, so you know, I think with them, the biggest thing would be to step out, learn, right? Learn, try to step out of being in your mind and more into how you're feeling. And it's easy for a five to say, I don't know how I feel, and just leave it at that, versus really taking the time to sit with something to tap into how they're feeling. Because when it comes to work, that was lightning. I don't know if you heard that, but um, so they're very good at researching for um, you know, their jobs and their hobbies and the things that they're interested in, right? Great at that, they will spend all their time on that. And then when it comes to interpersonal relationships, they sort of check out, right? Not so much effort is can be put into trying to get to the bottom of what the problem is, right? So they'll just check out mentally and not and they'll neglect what they're feeling. So I think for them it would be to try harder at paying attention to how you're feeling and not so much of what you're trying to rationalize with your mind.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Okay. And then our type six is wanting to feel safe and secure and supported. Where might they run into challenges in a relationship? Oh, just not knowing what to do.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

The the the the type, and I've had a couple of clients that that is their number one go-to line. I don't know what to do. And I say, yes, you do. And so then we will go back and forth. It's their inner knowing that they don't want to trust, right? Because they have that need for support and guidance. So it's almost as if no matter what they choose, they're not going to win. The outcome won't come out good. And so for sixes, is always to remember, let's say you have plan A and a plan B, you're always going to be losing one thing. So if you choose option A, great, but you've lost that in option B. And if you've chosen B, you've just lost that in option A. So either way, it doesn't matter which way you go, because you're never going to know 100% that you can do both because you can't. So just tap into knowing that whatever it is that you want to do, you do know, and you don't really need anybody else's support.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

All right. So then we have our sevens, who we have talked about a lot already. But for those of us who are striving to feel satisfied and excited and constantly stimulated and happy, where might somebody like that run into some relationship challenges?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Again, how long is this podcast? Uh, thinking for a lot of sevens that everything should be roses and daisies all the time. And if it's not, then there's a problem. What's going on? Right? That feeling of being unsettled, like this isn't it. There has to be more, there has to be something different. Why is it just this way? And I think it's really important to again bring it back to it's not about them, it's not the the relationship as a whole. Now, granted, there are some, you know, situations. I'm not saying it's a blanket for all, that that relationship maybe shouldn't work, right? There are those cases, but for the most part, it's remembering you can be okay and happy in your relationship. You don't have to jump ship because there are bumps in the road. It's learning to tap into the five energy and being happy with what it is right now because this too will pass.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

You know, sevens get that reputation for being like the happiest, most positive. And I actually was in a conversation with somebody else who um does a lot of work with the Enneagram, and they said sevens have actually are probably the most likely to be depressed out of all on the Enneagram, which you wouldn't expect because they have such a high bar for satisfaction and happiness that is just almost unreachable. And so they're constantly disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Absolutely. It's unattainable almost.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, that's the word unattainable. Yeah. Okay, so our type eights are striving to feel strong and powerful. Where might they run into some challenges and their relationships?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

So the directness is a big one for an eight. And I think it's really helpful to know maybe not necessarily what any type your partner is, but what their soft center is, what really triggers them. Because it's easy for an eight to just go right there because they can be direct and and for the most part, they are right in what they're saying and what they're saying is accurate, but to just keep in mind that not everyone appreciates that bluntness, that honesty, that you know, it's to have a little bit more tact when you're sharing things, and it's not about um dimming your assertiveness, it's just being mindful that not everyone takes it as easy and as direct in the positive way that an eight usually means it for.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Okay. Um, and then our type nines, who may actually be on the opposite end of that spectrum where maybe find maybe they find defensiveness or not defensiveness, directness, offensive, like you were saying, but our nines are really striving to feel at peace and everybody to be getting along and just kind of this overall harmony. Where do they run into problems in a relationship?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

So that's interesting. I have a type nine client now, male. And one of the things that he says so much out loud is, you know, I'm just going with the flow. I like this to be easy and just chill and go with the flow. However, underneath all of that boils the anger that he has, the frustration that he has in the relationship. And so instead of working, working towards the issue and saying what they need, right? Let letting themselves be heard, instead of doing that to avoid really boiling up to the point of no return, and then they just everything erupts like in a volcano, instead of getting to that point, it's helpful for nines to remember I have a voice too, I can be heard. And this sort of conflict that may or may not occur if I voice my opinion, like nothing is going to go wrong. A little bit of conflict, a little disagreement doesn't hurt anybody. What's more important is for nine to be heard so that they can feel comfortable continuing feeling relaxed and easy without harboring sort of the anger and resentment.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And then what would you say, like understanding somebody's core motives and core fears, I think is like just eye-opening, which is the basics of the Enneagram. Is there any other pieces of the Enneagram that you find to be really helpful in these kind of communication relationship challenges?

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah, I would say knowing if somebody moves, um, looks to the future or If someone focuses on the past or if someone's stuck in the present. I think that is very, very helpful for issues that come up in relationships that are ordinary and everyday. If you're planning a vacation, for example, someone like a seven, we look forward to that because we our focus is on the future. So we get excitement out of that. Someone who is focused in the present might not jump on board with you in planning all these things in the future because that's just not their cup of tea. They're more focused on, let's figure out what we're doing right now. And then with some research and some time, we can plan forward. So I think that is just a quick example, but it's really helpful in the everyday sort of way of life in relationships to know if someone is focused in the future, if they're focused right now, or if they're heavily focused on what's happening in the past. And you'll know that if someone brings up a lot of things from the past into the relationships, that that's where their mind usually tends to focus on.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Okay. I have a personal question. And if you don't want to answer it, you don't have to. We'll edit it out. But where do you see kind of looking at this question through the lens of the Enneagram? Where have you seen your, you and your husband as a five, you as a seven, have the most growth? Like what how have you used the Enneagram to grow in a specific way together? Oh my gosh. So he has that's okay. Uh we have dogs on this podcast. We have Alexa, we have Thunder, like it's it's all okay. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Good. Okay. So uh he's really grounded me. It's uh one of the things for Sevens, I feel, is to have both feet on the ground at all times, right? So we don't like fly away with all of our ideas and thoughts. And uh one of the biggest growths for me in in my marriage and in him being a five is knowing that I can have an argument. We can disagree. It doesn't mean anything about the relationship, doesn't mean I made the wrong choice, it doesn't mean that there's something better out there, it doesn't mean that um, you know, we we need to be fixing things all the time. No, it's just it's two people that are having a disagreement and that's okay. And it's really helped me settle in as a seven to not always be thinking of more and better and being happy and truly satisfied with where I am and the decisions I've made. Because if I were to just jump ship, it's going to happen in the next relationship. It always does. And so this is the very first one where the Enneagram has shown me the pattern that I've had in the past. I've always left every relationship I was in. Um, and then a lot of times not in the best way, just sort of cut and dry. And that has hurt people. And so I've learned a lot because of the Enneagram what my pattern was to just take off because I was afraid of feeling, you know, sadness or anger or any of that. And my type five husband is okay with feeling those things, even though he doesn't share them openly all the time. And sometimes I have to ask and ask. But he's not overwhelmed with those things like I am. And so it's a good balance for him to just I can rage out, and then he's like, okay, we're good now, great. Right. And then you know, to hash it out that way, as opposed to immediately going to you know, doomsday in our minds as a seven when it's not sunny and roses.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, yeah. I've oh gosh, that doomsday. I feel, I feel that. Um, well, thank you for for sharing that. I think a lot of people will be able to resonate with that regardless of your type, maybe on either end, being on the receiving end of that or or the that person. Um, as we start to close this episode, what for anybody? I know we've just scratched the surface of your expertise and your knowledge with relationships and using the Enneagram in those situations. For anybody interested in learning more, where are you hanging out online? Where can we learn more about the services that you offer?

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah, so uh you can find me predominantly on Instagram. My handle is at nofrillscoach. And you can sign up for my newsletter there. I send out a couple of emails a week. I love emails. And um also on my website, nofriscoach.com. I help individuals and couples heal, mentor, and their relationships if it comes down to that. And then my type 7 is at type 7 coach, and that is strictly on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Okay, I love that. And then what is there a book that you would recommend that's either yeah, relationship Enneagram book that has helped you um in your journey or with your clients?

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah, so The Road Back to You by Ian Crohn is a pretty simple, straightforward Enneagram book. So if anyone's new to it, and even if you're a little more advanced, it's such a great refresher. It's a really quick, good read. And it's always really good to have handy for you know anything that you might that might pop into your head that you think, hmm, I could really use some help with this in my type. You can reference that. And then also for relationships, the state of affairs by Estelle Perel, uh who's one of my mentors, really turns the way people think of affairs uh right on its head. And it's eye-opening and it's it's insightful for anyone who has been the one to have the affair or on be on the receiving end of that. You really do see affairs in a different way, as individual people making choices out of their fears and their own past childhood experiences versus having affairs to you know blow up an entire marriage or family.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Okay, talk about juicy, like all of her stuff is so interesting. And sometimes it's like, no, I that's not right. But then you're like, wow, like interesting. She also has one about um captivity, like monogamy, and I forget what that one is called. That was really good too, but um, such a good one. Okay. And then um, you know, I'm gonna kind of tailor this to relationships. A lot of times, you know, we talk, I hear this term like, oh, just live your best life. And so I ask an individual, like, what does your best life look like? But because we are talking about relationships right now, what would you say, like, is the like quote unquote perfect relationship, the ideal relationship in your world? Like, what does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Honestly, learning to be pretty satisfied, um, feeling calm and really centered. And when I mean that, I mean like an internal body feeling of stillness because positivity and happiness and creating the feelings of love and all those emotions come easy for me. So for me, the perfect relationship would be one where I feel just calm and peaceful and at home. And if I want to tap into extra happiness, it's right there, readily available. But really, just the peacefulness that a lot of people feel that for me and as a seven is hard to. Um, that is my perfect thought of a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

I love that. And then before we go, and you have shared so much. Um, is there anything else, just kind of final words, advice, anything that I haven't asked you about that you would like to share before we call this episode complete?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

The more you know about your past reasons for doing things, the more you understand why you've made the decisions that you've made and where that even came from, the more you really understand that, the better you'll be with your careers, the better you'll be at home, the better you'll be with planning out your future and just your overall everyday, you know, enjoyment and pleasure and satisfaction is really knowing where you came from, why those decisions were made, so that maybe you can continue making them or make some changes.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

So good. With that, Natalia, I appreciate you so much, all that you share for taking the time to be here and um definitely get connected with her, find her, follow along, learn from her. I am I always am. Um, I appreciate you, friend. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me.