SPEAKER_02 0:02

You're listening to the Enneagram MBA podcast, a show of understanding people at work, including yourself, usually talking about the Enneagrams, sometimes talking about other resources and methods, but always bringing value and having fun along the way. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, surf and Enneagram Coach, Speaker, and Workshop Facilitator. And I cannot wait to see you inside. If you are a regular listener of the show, welcome back. I'm so glad you're here. And if you happen to be new to the show, welcome. I am also glad that you are here. Either way, you are in for a treat, as always, but in for a treat as we dive into a special series for the month of September on different personality assessments that you can use to complement what you are learning and using with your Enneagram journey. And today we are going to kick it off with a tool called the 360 review. And I love, love, love this tool for complementing your Enneagram journey because of the additional insight that others that you trust might be able to give to you that it's just really hard for you to see in yourself. It's hard for us sometimes to notice our blind spots, hence the word blind spots. And then sometimes because things come so easily, we may not also recognize our strengths. So having something like this where you're asking people and we're going to get additional insight into exactly what is a 360 review and how to do it and when to use it from our guests today. So I don't want to spoil it, but I just want to give you a heads up that this is the start of this fun series. I'm really looking forward to getting into 360 Colby Strength Finder Disc and hopefully something that I hadn't ever heard about until recently called the Fascinate Assessment, how to be fascinating. So all of those coming your way. Without further ado, let's kick off the first one in our personality assessment on the 360, hearing from our guest, Tara Nesser.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

When people ask me uh what I do for a living, I say uh at its sort of most fundamental level, I do leadership development for emerging leaders. So what that looks like typically is a combination of leadership development programs that include some sort of like structural uh coursework along with leadership coaching. So I am a leadership coach myself. Um, I work alongside people that are kind of entering into a new phase in their career. So that's where this sort of emerging leader category comes from. So the the client that typically comes to me is somebody who's like stepped into a bigger role for the first time, or maybe even the second time, but they they aren't yet an expert in the new role. So think about it like first-time directors, uh, first-time VPs, and a lot of first-time founders.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Okay. Okay. And then have some questions about new and emerging leaders in just a minute, but to kind of set the tone and just get to get to know you a little bit better. Um, just out of curiosity, you have mentioned this type seven on the Enneagram, known as the enthusiast, sometimes known as the multitasker, kind of driven by the need to be excited and satisfied and adventure. What about that type specifically resonates with you the most?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Well, I think to do what I would to do what I do, you have to be an enthusiast, right? Um, so you know, it's interesting because as I think about myself, even as a leader, I've always described myself as the cheerleader. So I'm always um, you know, such an advocate for people, such an advocate for um topics that I'm passionate about. And I find that my sort of like mode of my mode of inspiration and my mode of motivation really does lie in uh not only expressing enthusiasm myself, uh, but really activating enthusiasm in others. So it it really does resonate with who I am as a person and who I am as a leader and probably led me to do what I do today.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the superpowers of the seven is their ability to cast a vision because they tend to be really future focused, planning for all the amazing things in the future. How do you, and which I think in general is a quality in leadership in general. Um, but for you personally, how do you see that that characteristic of being a visionary play out in in your own work in the business that you're running?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because I've always sort of described my leadership style as like I'm a dreamer. Uh, and so it's really important that I have executors that work alongside me. So as it plays out into um, you know, what I do, I'm always, I'm always visioning the future. I'm always uh envisioning um not only ways to move my own business forward, but I do spend a lot of time visioning the future of work in general. So, do we have to be doing things the way that we've always do them, done them, or can we be more disruptive in how we think about our relationship with work, how we think about um, you know, even how we uh execute our work. So so I do spend a lot of time in that sort of future-focused um thinking. And therefore, I always have to hire people that can then take those visions and you know help create the roadmap for making them sort of come, making those dreams come true.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Absolutely. Okay, so this is maybe getting a little personal. So feel free to share as much or as little as you want to, but the sevens are also known. And again, I think this is, I think our country in general has a lot of type three and a lot of type seven energy. So this might just also be kind of society influencing us, but it's kind of this like relentless pursuit to find happiness and fulfillment and to like live your passion. And I'm also a type seven. So looking back on my past careers and roles, it's really kind of interesting to see like I was never satisfied. I was always kind of looking like, how can I be more fulfilled? I'm not fulfilled in that grass is greener kind of stuff. Do you see that playing out or have you seen that play out in your own career?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Oh, absolutely. I would say that was um that is something that I've experienced at every stage, not just in my career, but in my life. Yeah. Um, I'll give you an example. You know, when I was younger, I would um try out for something, you know, uh make the team find excellence in it and then quickly need to go try out for another thing, right? Um, so kind of always searching for that, for that thing that is going, that is going to tap into my to my greatest passions. I will tell you that one of the things that I actively work on as an adult is getting more comfortable in the now, getting more comfortable in the present. And I think that probably from what you're explaining to me, I would imagine mindfulness work is probably really effective for sevens. Um, so I so I do spend a lot of time and I invest a lot of energy in to not always be um wishing for the next best thing, but being really grateful for the for the things that I'm for the place that I'm at today.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah, that I can I relate to that, Tara. Um, and it's really interesting. One of the things I love about the Enneagram is how fluid it is, because within each type, we have two other types that we're connected to through what they call arrows. Um, and for the seven, it's the type five, which is the really focused, um, also in their head, but really focused, more kind of introverted, okay with stillness and solitude. And then the type one, which is excellent at high producing high quality work, executing discipline structure. And so it's like, wow, those are two things that I really could use to kind of enhance what this enthusiasm, enthusiasm and visionariness. So um that's interesting that you you had mentioned that. Um I know you had also said the two resonates and that you, you know, enjoy kind of being that cheerleader to people. What just based on what you know about that two energy, what kind of felt relevant for you there?

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Um, well, correct me if I'm wrong. Is the two the helper?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah. You know, I think I have like a little bit of a uh, you know, I have a I have like a a little bit of a wanting to save people, kind of, kind of deep deep down. So, you know, I am sort of always wanting to help the underdog. I have a real um passion for people that are potentially disenfranchised and you know, helping um, helping them feel like they are accepted and belong. So I don't know if this is related to the helper, but belonging is a really big value for me. So creating a sense of belonging, creating a sense of safety, and you know, creating places where people can really express themselves fully is uh something I care about probably more than more than most things. And I'm wondering if that corresponds to the helper.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Well, what's interesting, it does, but and what's also interesting is, and you can't write make everything about the Enneagram, but just what you've said um is maybe tapping into some of those wings on either side, because the type eight is very much focused on the underdog um standing up for themselves and for others, not allowing anybody to be taken advantage of. And then the six is really focused on creating safety, security. So those safe places. So that's kind of interesting. I think at the end of the day, what I appreciate is just it kind of gives you language to be able to kind of say, oh yeah, that's a thing, or I do this, or yes, I that's what I'm trying to explain to you that I need. Um, so it just yeah, it just kind of expands your your vocabulary and and language and explaining who you are and what you need.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, I think, I think that's so powerful. Having having language to describe who you are is and is incredibly powerful in how we express ourselves to others. So I I fully buy into that.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Okay, I want to, and thank you for opening up about some of that because some of these, you know, sometimes, and we'll we're gonna get into this actually in your interview too. Um, you know, it's I love the strength finder, the clips and strengths, I think now is what it's called, because it's like who doesn't want to know about their strengths um and and appreciate those, but sometimes it's also those blind spots um that are kind of cringy to know about, to learn about yourself, but can also be like such a place for for growth and opportunity. Um, I want to ask you, because you do work with so many new leaders, emerging leaders, founders, what do you find um is one of the biggest challenges or struggles that somebody in that position faces?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Ah, well, I have a I have a running joke with my clients that 95, and I just made up that number by the way, but um that 95% of the people that I work with have the exact same challenge when they enter into a new role. Um and they all call it imposter syndrome. Every person, every, not every, but let's say the vast majority of people that come to me say, I feel like, you know, I'm in this new role and I'm experiencing a lot of imposter syndrome. And what's really interesting is that when I, you know, sort of peel back the onion to discover what they mean, what I'm finding is that a lot of times it's not imposter syndrome, but it's what I like to call newness syndrome. So newness syndrome is what I'm learning, kind of this universal experience of entering into something new, having your confidence really shaken and asking yourselves a lot of questions about who you are and what you're good at. And that creates the feeling that you have when you're an imposter syndrome of will I be found out? What is the difference to me that I see is that newness syndrome typically goes away after you are not new, right? Whereas imposter syndrome tends to be a little bit more persistent. It tends to kind of follow you throughout your your whole career, and it is something deeper that you need to work through. So when people are stepping into these new roles, they they many times believe that they have imposter syndrome because a lot of those symptoms are coming up, right? Uh, what am I good at? Uh, what are my strengths? Am I going to be found out? And by the way, do I do I deserve a seat at this table? That's something that I hear a lot of new leaders say is, you know, uh, I don't even know that I deserve this seat at the table. I'm not sure I, I'm not even sure how I how I landed this. So there's a tremendous feeling of uncertainty uncertainty about your own capabilities that happen really within that first. I would say, I always call it like the first six to, I would say the first six to nine months until you're really settling in to who you are in this new position and you're feeling really secure about that.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Okay. I love what you said about um newness syndrome and just kind of that whole idea. And it's kind of like um, yeah, we expect ourselves to be awesome at videos or to be like live or writing, but it's like the only way to get better at that is is to make a lot of crappy ones first. Yes. It's kind of the same thing. Yeah. Um with that, I know that your methodology and your company specifically, you have four kind of a four-step approach for getting new leaders from kind of where they're starting into kind of maybe more thriving, um, feeling more confident. Would you walk us through just high level what that four-step approach is for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, so I think it's it's a few things. One, we really do need to assess what's happening, right? So um, and I think this is where like things like 360 reviews really play an important role, but we do need to understand um what are you excellent at and what where are your gaps? In this assessment piece, I do think it's really important to uh be really clear on the difference between gaps and then things that don't come naturally to you. So I'm a big believer that that people uh if things don't come naturally to you, oftentimes it's not a great use of time to like spend a lot of effort getting better at the things that don't come naturally to you. It can often be a better use of time to hire somebody to do those things. However, if there are clear gaps, right? So there are just clear um things that you have not learned yet or skills that you have not like sort of polished yet, those are the things that we want to look at. So, what I like to do is with this assessment, it's like, okay, what are your superpowers? How can we ensure that you're leaning fully into those superpowers so that they continue to be more expressed? Um, what are your gaps? Meaning, like, what are the things that you just haven't learned yet that we want to start learning? And then what are the things that don't come naturally to you? And how can we help you get the right people around you that can take over some of those things? So that's sort of step one is that assessment piece. Then step two is a little bit of soul searching, right? So um, you know, one of the things that I I say about my coaching style is it's a blend of mindset and skill set. We can, I can give you all the frameworks in the world, but if you have something happening with your confidence, it doesn't matter, right? So we really need to look at where your uh where your mindset is, where your demons are, uh, what are the inner voices that are in your head telling you can't do telling you you can't do things. So step two is like really exploring who you are as a human and uh how your how your mind is working to either set you up for success or how your mind is working to hold you back from success. So I would say that's step two. Step three is where we get more into the sort of tactical, tactical skill sets. So, what are the frameworks that you need? What are the skills that you need um more tactically to be successful? And then uh step four is really the sort of accountability system. So, how can we make sure um that either I, as your coach, am holding you accountable for growth, or what accountability systems do you have in your organization that are holding you accountable to the growth that you want to have? So those are kind of how I think about um optimizing for development in really any person.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

I love that. And going back to that first step, um, that assessment, like understanding where you are, it's hard to know where you're going. It's like I think there's a subquote about it if you don't know where you're starting from. Yeah. And one of the tools, obviously, I love the Enneagram. It's like a map, it's like here I am, not where I have to be forever, but this is where I'm starting from. I know you use several other tools. And one of them being that 360 review that you had mentioned. Um, I had this is something that I took in my early days um in my career, and it was really helpful. It was also, I mentioned before we started recording, kind of painful because people are telling you all the things you're great at that they love about you, and then all the areas where like you are kind of lacking or have an opportunity to grow. Um, I want to just kind of lay the foundation for this. What is for anybody who isn't familiar or just heard it via text, like, oh, 360 review, what exactly is this and why do you use it? How is it helpful?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, it's a great question. And I have a lot of feelings about what you just said about your experience, which I could talk about for hours. But simply put, 360 review is an opportunity for the people around you, so above, beside, and below. So that's where that 360 comes into place. Um have an opportunity to anonymously provide you with feedback about what you're great at and uh what your gaps are. So the reason that it's really helpful is that it does, in fact, allow us to see our blind spots. A thing that's not mentioned a lot about 360s, that I think is also a really sort of important component of it, it also allows you to celebrate in the things that you're good at, right? So that's one of the reasons that I use it for a lot of reasons with my clients. But one of the things I get most excited about is that it allows people to really sink into and appreciate all that's going right. So I don't know, I think we're a little bit like appreciation deprived in corporate America. Um, so so yes, it helps with the gaps, it exposes the gaps, it exposes those blind set, those blind spots and gives us like a really nice map for what our coaching should be structured around. Um, but it also just like confirms that you're doing a lot right too. And and that can be really powerful for things like confidence, right? So if we're if we're talking about mindset coaching, um, so much mindset coaching really is around believing in yourself. And these 360 reviews can be useful for that.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Is there a way to do the 360 review wrong or like in a harmful way?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Oh gosh. Um, I think 360 reviews are done really poorly in organizations, um, a lot of the times. And they I think they're done uh poorly in organizations a lot of times for a couple of reasons. One, a lot of organizations have not adopted this sort of like concept of radical candor, right? People are really afraid of hurting each other's feelings. So by the time we so I would by the time we get to the review stage, they typically go, and I'm curious if this was your experience, but they they typically go wrong when it's the first time you're hearing this information. So I always tell my clients that are like, you know, if they're executing a 360 review for the first time, one thing I say to them is if any of this information is going to be a surprise to them, you have done your job wrong because feedback should be consistent, it should be persistent, it should be in the moment, right? So if you're just hearing feedback for the first time in a corporate setting, in a 360 performance review, there's some management work that needs to be done. Such a great point. So I think like that's one way that it can go wrong is if it's shocking. Um, and then the the second sort of thing that I'm I'm really on the fence about, and and quite frankly, like I don't I don't have a clear defined opinion on this yet, but I don't love ratings. Um so I think it it can go wrong when there's a very arbitrary rating system. And the way in which that rating is delivered is not. without context for what it means.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

The context. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Okay. You got a three. Okay. Well what does what does that mean? Right? And and how does that how does that reflect upon who I am as an employee?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah, I think the things that I remember most about mine, one was um it like you were saying was kind of vague, like, oh, she's great or awesome. It's like, okay, not sure what to do with that. Yeah. And then the like the the kind of the negative side or the gaps, I think, were helpful. Mine was around um like assertiveness and um and some of that I think was just being, I mean that was like my first or second year in this huge corporation. So like that kind of made sense. It's interesting too to kind of overlap because I pulled this up like maybe six months ago. I was just kind of curious. And it's interesting how much of the feedback actually overlapped with some of the the qualities that the like my type seven energy has has, yeah. I'm like, okay, this makes sense like this makes sense for somebody who maybe identifies as this type seven like kind of not finishing things all the way through, getting really excited and that kind of tampering off. So it was really interesting people pleasing, um, which I think women in general probably have um can all relate to that a little bit. What if what if somebody is, you know, I know that this tool is used in very large corporations. A lot of this audience is a part of a team um maybe just two or three kind of starting out as that founder, um, maybe a part of a small business, 15, 20 people does is it still useful in that type of setting if we do have a smaller team, are there out of the box people that we should think about asking?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Oh great question. So yeah, when I do, when I facilitate 360 reviews for my clients, um, because I work with so many startups, I would say almost all of my clientele is startups, um, we almost always go outside of the organization. So my um guidance to them is who knows your work intimately, who knows you intimately I've even had husband and wives on the 360 review list before because what we want to pull out is like the the people that know you best and you've created trust with so that the feedback is going to be written in a way that is constructive because there's there's trust and there's trust and respect that's there. So um I usually tell people to pick people within their organization for sure, right? But also who have you worked with in the past uh who's somebody in your life that you feel really understands who who you are as a as a person and a professional.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

So it can be anywhere. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Anyway clients potentially could be clients it just depends on the nature it depends on the nature of um the nature of the review right so if you are if you are fully truly who you are with your clients I'd say yes but oftentimes when we are working with clients we aren't there to really bring our full selves because we're there to serve them.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

So um if you're doing a review to understand how you can better serve clients better then sure ask your clients uh but if it really is to kind of I don't know dive into who you are as a as a professional and what your true superpowers are and what your true uh gaps are I would I would just want to make sure that the clients are people that you have been authentic with great great point okay last kind of I think it's my last question on this um with these 360 reviews working with the type of um client that you typically do the founders kind of those emerging leaders what is I know we talked about imposter syndrome that the person maybe identifies as struggling with but what do you see as some of common feedback or is there common feedback that you see your clients getting from others?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

That's a really good question. I'm not sure if I see the only that's what I guess I guess the only sort of common feedback that I might see for emerging leaders is is really around confidence. So um I'll give you an example I hear a lot uh the feedback is like this person should feel confident making the decisions. They don't need to get they don't need to ask a lot of people for permission anymore. Like they should own the decision. They should own the plan. And that does come up a decent amount but I I think outside of the reviews there are a few other themes that I hear from just working with emerging leaders that are really challenging. And I think that transition from I call it the you know the transition from player to coach is one of the most common things that I hear because a lot of our validation as a player comes from our ability to execute right and so we've built like our whole careers on maximizing for getting validation on this skill of executing and then we're thrown into this leadership role. And now not only are you not getting validation for executing you are the giver of validation of executing and oftentimes you're getting no recognition no praise no validation for delivery because it's not your job anymore. And that causes a tremendous amount of insecurity the quote that I hear from my clients so often time and time again is like what is my value? Like I don't understand what my value is in this role as a leader. Like I feel like I'm just you know kind of directing people and uh pointing like pointing the direction that they should go but I'm not like delivering something and we really have to shift their mindset to feel validation in the directing.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Okay that's so good. And let me just say I work with a lot of um just even you know peers, friends who are solopreneurs or maybe have you know a VA. And that is something that we have all talked about struggling with it's like when you're in that role at a company at a large company you're always getting gold stars. But then when you're by yourself like there's nobody to be like great job on getting those posts out today or doing that live video.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yes, yes. I always tell my clients you have to learn how to give the gold stars to yourself because no one else is going to give them to you.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yes. Oh my God that is that is the truth. Yes okay as we start to wrap this up I want to ask you um just kind of a personal I personal slash professional question on um sharing your kind of going back to that authentic self. And I know because I follow you on on LinkedIn um you're pretty vocal about your opinions, um you know current events um kind of playing the contrarian on some certain thoughts out there and on leadership how and I know that that sometimes that can be scary. That might come more natural for you but I I really do think that it's so important as a leader to let people kind of know where you stand to be to be out there step out from behind that company logo with your face what advice or tips or recommendations would you have to somebody who is maybe in that emerging leader role um maybe a solopreneur who is ready to kind of start getting more vocal but it feels a little scary.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah it's such a great question and it does come more naturally to me and I've I uh so it's hard it's sometimes it can be hard for me to put myself in the shoes of a person who it doesn't come naturally to but I will I'll I'll say a couple of things. I have a rule for myself when posting if it takes me too long to write it I don't care about it or I don't mean it. And so I don't post it. If I feel like it really comes from my gut and it comes like it just kind of spills out on spills out of me then I want to post it immediately because it is a reflection of something that I authentically care about. So that's kind of like a measurement that I have like if I if I'm having to redraft and redraft it's not the right message. I it's not one that's it's clearly not one that's important to me or not one that I have I've thought through well enough to have like a a real opinion on. So um that's number one is what comes from your gut like what what is it that you actually want to say if you have this sort of visceral pull to say it then say it. I would say like maybe that's my my advice um if you want to say it say it.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

That's good or don't another thing that I and Sarah you follow me like I don't care about grammatical errors I don't care about um having the most well written post out there uh the only thing I care about is having a voice that is authentic and makes people think so good um I would say that spoken like a true seven on the grammar on the grammar piece I I am awful at it um and I'm okay with it too I do get visited by the grammar police sometimes which is okay um I the thing that I think about is that um one it's kind of that Brene Brown like you're in the arena so of course you're gonna like have typos if you're writing the amount that you're writing then of course you're gonna that's just gonna happen the amount that you're doing and so it's somebody who doesn't ever write well then they don't have to worry about ever making mistakes. So um I think that just comes with it I love such a great reminder there.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Well I think that's an example of like something that doesn't come naturally to me therefore I'm not gonna waste a lot of my energy getting good at it. I have I have bigger fish to fry.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Yes or and and in my case like I've had to hire somebody to the things that are important like a workbook it's like okay yes I cannot see it. I don't know where yeah yeah so yeah exactly understanding those um before we get into have a few kind of rapid fire questions before we get there would you tell us a little bit about what you're working on what you're focused on where we could learn more about you and keep up with you on social media or or wherever you're at.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah definitely so uh my business is level up talent you can find me on Instagram at levelup.talent or my website leveluptalent.co so um what am what am I working on? What I am my main focus right now is really bringing leadership development into the the world of small business and startups. So uh startups are incredibly challenging for leaders um they move super fast there's change that's happening constantly you live in a constant state of turmoil and a lot of times what we see is that the leaders in those companies are homegrown. So they've been promoted into leadership roles. So they're really, really new and there's almost zero development that exists for leaders within startups. They don't invest in it, they don't know what they need and there's just not a tremendous amount of focus on it. So my big goal right now is to bring leadership development into startups in a way that really connects with the way those organizations run. So I just recent recently launched a program called when you uh when you realize the adult in the room is you which I think really speaks to really speaks to that leader of waking up and going oh crap I'm a leader now and I have to learn how to do this. And it is a program that is designed specifically around the challenges that startup leaders face. That is such delivered in a style that connects to them. So not these like stuffy corporate trainings right it's delivered in a style that I think really speaks to uh speaks to the audience that it's serving.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

So good. I saw that the other day and I was like what a creative fun name thanks it's like that is going and that's going to speak to the type of person that you want to work with right um it's like oh yeah creative fun open new innovative love it um okay and then I I follow along with you a lot over on LinkedIn and would you just tell us where you're at over there?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Yeah um gosh what is my you can just find me at Terranesser. So a lot of the um a lot of the content that I post is on my personal account uh not on my business account so please follow along and uh correct my grammatical errors let her know let us know let me know please don't yeah yeah I know that's how I feel sometimes there you go just what people focus on what's important uh um what is so I have a couple of quick questions as we wrap this up what is we people love a good book recommendation what is a leadership personal development team building workshop uh or team building book that you would recommend to the listeners my favorite my favorite sort of like uh leadership book is culture code okay um it really it sort of follows some of the world's greatest leaders and pulls out the trends that they see in the world's greatest leaders and puts that into sort of like a comprehensive package it's really well written it's really easy read and it tells you it exposes I think it exposes a lot of um or challenges some of the conceptions that we that we might have about world leaders okay I'm adding that one and um you know you hear this word successful just gotta be let's go let's be a successful leader what does that mean to you personally what does that look like well uh um let me ask you um is the question what does success mean to me or what does successful leader mean to me oh good um let's do what does success look like to you oh great question and i i already know my answer so success to me uh I define my success by freedom so um how much how much freedom do I have in my life that is my measurement for success however I would say everybody's measurement for success should look differently based on what you care the most about and it's a really great exercise to set your own sort of metric for success uh and let that be the measurement. I feel like for you know our whole lives we've been told that there's sort of this one measure of success and it looks like this one thing. And we've all been chasing that one thing for so long. But when we feel empowered to choose our own success metric, life can really change. And it did for me when I realized the thing I actually care about optimizing for is freedom. All of the decisions I started to make about my life and my business totally changed.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Okay Tara I just have to say I try not to chime in on these but that is the ultimate it's like the ultimate type seven answer is the is freedom. I mean that is mine and yeah yeah so so on point. That's that's kind of funny. And then the last question I'm just gonna let you take this but obviously we have had some massive changes just kind of as a whole after COVID and just all life um whether it's remote working um kind of putting on clothes again and getting back out to the world um also kind of having that awakening um like is this really what I want my life to be whether it's relationships or the job or whatever um what have you seen as kind of the biggest change or shift from before COVID and then where we're at now and it you can answer personally or from your client's perspective, a leadership perspective just curious what your thoughts are on that.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

I'll give a funny answer and then I'll explain it a little bit because actually somebody asked me this question yesterday and I said in a sort of joking way, I think that the thing that has changed is that people are just far less ambitious. But I mean this in a good way. So what I actually mean by that answer is I think our relationship with the role that work has that the role that work plays in our lives has changed and people are sort of uh coming to coming back to a desire to be a whole person.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

So they're not just ambitious about work anymore they're ambitious about connection they're ambitious about creativity they're ambition about they're ambitious about balance right so I think the um instead of uh having this sort of singular focus people are opening up to having more of a well-rounded focus on what life is supposed to mean and uh that has been the most exciting shift that I have seen I would agree with that I would absolutely agree with that I love that answer it's such a great way to end um I appreciate you for being here for opening up about yourself and then just sharing some of your expertise and experience um around leadership self-awareness all the things I know our listeners are going to get so much out of it definitely get connected with Tara over on Instagram or LinkedIn say hello let her know that you listened before we wrap up is there anything else that you would like to share that I haven't asked you in order to kind of make this episode feel complete?

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Well I think it's been very fun so I I appreciate you having this conversation with me.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

I guess that you know because I work with so many emerging leaders what I would leave everyone with is if you are thinking about stepping in to that next thing and you're nervous about it rip the band-aid off you're gonna experience sort of a moment of discomfort that discomfort will ease and you'll find sort of a new version yours a new version of yourself uh in that next level so good I appreciate you Tara thanks so much for being here yeah thanks Sarah I appreciate it big thank you to Tara today for being our guest for opening up about her experience and sharing her expertise and giving her time so appreciative of that I'm also so thankful for you being here today listening tuning in um if you do have a moment reach out to Tara let her know what you're going to be taking away from this episode two of my biggest takeaways today was the idea of the gaps versus the weaknesses. I absolutely love that so often we think it's either a weakness or it's a strength versus it's something that we just haven't learned yet. We haven't had an opportunity to practice and polish and get better at. So we don't actually know if it could be a strength or maybe it is a weakness that we ignore but but we don't know. And I love that idea rather than just saying well it is what it is. I am who I am I just I'm not good great on video I'll never be good on video. It's like well maybe but maybe it's just a gap because you haven't had the the practice the opportunity to get better at it. So I absolutely love that I'm gonna be thinking of my own possible gaps that maybe I've considered weaknesses but potentially are just gaps. So I'm gonna encourage you to maybe reflect on the same. And then the other thing that I love in general is just the 360 the idea of the 360 review tool that Tara shared. Obviously if you have an opportunity to work with an official guide like Tara to take the official assessment um please do it would be I'm sure incredibly helpful. I know that I have taken it in the past as I mentioned on the show um it's things that I still you know think about some of it I I don't but others I'm like yeah you know I see that in myself I don't love it but yeah I see that. And then I also think that in addition to that you could start using the concept as soon as today especially if you already know your Enneagram type so you know taking that description of the type that you most identify with and sharing it with a few people that you really trust and would value their feedback and say, you know, I really identify with these things about this specific personality framework. What do you see in me? What do you see that you agree with what might I be missing in order to get some additional feedback? That's one of the biggest questions is how do I use the Enneagram? And so at this point you have probably been doing a lot of self-reflection a lot of reading looking in the mirror and so now this might be a great opportunity to you know take it outside and ask some others what do they see? Let them kind of be the mirror those that you are close to and obviously trust. So um love those takeaways and again would love to hear what resonated and what takeaways you're leaving the episode with let me know let Tara know. And um until then um I'm looking forward to seeing you back here next week for part two in our series of assessment tools outside of the Enneagram where we'll be talking about the Colby assessment. So I'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Thank you for listening to the Enneagram MBA podcast. Sarah offers Enneagram assessments for employees and entrepreneurs and workshops for company teams and women's groups to learn more about how Sarah can help you or your organization better understand people at work, visit EnneagramMBA.com