SPEAKER_01 0:02

You're listening to the Enneagram MBA podcast, a show of understanding people at work, including yourself, usually talking about the Enneagram, sometimes talking about other resources and methods, but always bringing value and having fun along the way. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, certified Enneagram coach, speaker, and workshop facilitator. And I cannot wait to see you inside.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

I work almost exclusively with entrepreneurs, and uh we use the Colby to help understand how you most naturally use your time and energy. Uh, and there's so many great applications for it. Um, it can help you articulate your strengths and really identify like where you do your best work and uh even help you with your messaging of how you communicate that with clients. Uh, it can help you structure your day, your week, kind of set up that ideal week, ideal month, and um, and figure out how you work best. You know, for particularly for people who are solopreneurs or have small teams, it can help guide you in deciding what work you need to do and what would be better to outsource. And then when outsourcing, it can help you figure out kind of who to partner with, whether that is um hiring someone or just even working with um other people and where you might frustrate each other and how to communicate better to avoid the frustration.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Okay, and that's so good because when we read my results, I was immediately thinking, like, oh my gosh, like it would be great to have somebody who is kind of the opposite of this because I need some of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

So very that's it's funny because I feel like it's uh sort of a double-edged sword, you know, in some ways, the more you're opposite, the more you have a different approach, you can help each other, but it also creates um potentials for conflict. And so, like the more you can understand that, you can navigate those potential conflict situations too.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, such a great. It's like the same energy is fueling kind of the shadow and the the strength, but it's just yeah, how understanding that. And I love what you said about how it helps you identify your natural gifts and strengths and tendencies. Because I think um just kind of in the society that we live in, and especially as women in the in the workplace in these leadership roles, we feel like, okay, if it's well, I think there's kind of two things sometimes. If it's too easy, then it's like, oh, it's it must not be working because it's work is supposed to be hard or success is supposed to be hard. And then also there's kind of like stereotypes of what somebody in a role should look like or what an entrepreneur should look like and what their day should look like. But what you're saying, and also what I love about the Enneagram, is like it doesn't have to be so hard, it could be easy when you understand those natural gifts, strengths, tendencies, preferences. So I love that. Um, before we get into talking about the Colby though, just to kind of understand where you're coming from on the Enneagram spectrum, I would love to hear what resonates most with you about that type six energy.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yes. So I was first introduced to the Enneagram in 2018. Yeah. So I've been about four years into um really using it as a tool for self-awareness. And probably what uh I've I've mentioned to you offline, like the I resonate a lot with a lot of the one uh energy too, but kind of how I uh landed on the six is really probably the the self-doubt. You can actually hear it in me, me saying it of kind of well, it's this and that, but um that in that that uh the committee, you know, in terms of um and and like looking to external external sources, and for me often that's information uh and other experts. Um and that creating the the the security piece that creating security, particularly for others around me, is is a really strong drive for me. So that creating creating security, creating structure, creating a sense of safety is is a very strong drive.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Okay, okay, and there's something I want to come back to, but also if you're willing to share, what about the one also kind of resonates and and and is in the in the mix?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, so I recognize um, I guess I recognize the one most in myself when I'm not in a healthy space. So definitely, and maybe this is um maybe this is me going to a three, um, but it's that really wanting to control the details, wanting things to be just so um resenting other people that aren't working as hard as I am when I feel like I'm working hard, you know, that idea of like coming into the kitchen and um the dishwasher is clean and there's dirty dishes in the sink, and people are like sitting on the couch relaxing. And I'm like, can't you all see that the dishes need to be unloaded? And that that kind of resentment and and you know, thinking that um, so those types of things and feeling when I'm when I'm not in a good place, I'm like walking by the picture frame and adjusting it three times because it's crooked, that kind of thing.

unknown 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Well, I don't know what this says about, and maybe this is the this is my one, but I we are having the exact dishwasher issue. Like that just happened last night. And I was seven, and I think you know, it it does. I don't know what I feel like we could do a whole like episode on like people's relationship with unloading the dishwasher. Yes, yes, so that is like just the the the foundation for so many fights, I feel like. But yeah, I I absolutely feel that um as well, you know. So that's interesting, and I think it's just to be aware, like regardless of where you know you end up or somebody else ends up, it's just like being that that awareness has been so helpful to me and putting language to things, um, which the Colby also helps with. And we'll we'll get to that a little bit. Um, would you be willing to share a little bit about because I know you're you're very um, you've done a lot of personal growth. You're in this professional development, professional growth industry. Um, and if you're not comfortable sharing, that's okay, but I'm gonna ask the question anyway. One of the things for a type six, and we all can struggle with that self-doubt, but for a six, it is very kind of you said it, that inner committee can be such a challenge, like this or that. Who do I listen to? I want to listen to myself, don't want to be told what to do. How have you grown kind of through that to become more self-directed, more self-trusting?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Oh my goodness, yes, no, I love this question, and um it is absolutely a work in progress. Uh, the tools that help me the most are journaling, uh, for sure. And almost every time I find myself spinning, where I'm I'm just talking myself out of every, you know, because I I am so great at that analysis. So almost any idea I come up with, I can tell you like I can analyze it to death. And when I start spinning in that, almost always I've fallen out of journaling. And I don't know what it is. Something about journaling, even though it could seem like the same activity, it could seem like I'm in my head still and I'm thinking. Something about journaling is like an action for me. It's getting it out of my head. And if it's more productive thinking, it makes it more productive thinking. And then almost always like I'll just write and like I don't know where I'm going, I don't have the prompt necessarily, but by the end of it, I have reached some clarity. So that is my absolute best tool. Um, when I find myself like I've asked three different people the same question in a week, and it sometimes even like I'm asking someone who has no, like, I should definitely have more knowledge in this area. And that's when I notice, like, oh my goodness, I am asking, you know, her an opinion on something where she she this isn't her uh realm of expertise. That's when I notice that I've gotten um off track. And uh so journaling is my number one. The other one I'm really trying to work on right now, and I'll be just totally honest, this is um definitely the biggest point of growth or edge of growth for me still is even um is even listening, like knowing what it's not so much trusting my inner voice, it's more like letting her speak, you know, and kind of connecting um with that. So the other thing is just uh being quiet, you know, and whether that's um meditating or centering, uh, but really getting quiet. It's easiest for me to do it when I walk. I love to listen to podcasts when I walk, but I try to have at least one of my walks each day just be um more meditative, you know, noticing and um, but getting out in nature and walking. So journaling and walking are the two things that that help me the most.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

And with journaling, do you do it at like a certain time of day? And then how long do you do it for? Do you have a set time?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, so I have um it's it's a I'm constantly changing, but yes, I do it. So typically I exercise first, and I mean that might just look like some yoga stretches. Um, but then I I journal and um I've gone back and forth with digitally and a paper journal. And right now I'm doing a little bit of both. Um, my challenge is my handwriting is really horrible. So when I do it on paper, I can never go back and like see any insights or patterns, but I do like writing by hand. So I do one in my hand where I do every day, which is just literally brain dumping. But if I have something I really need to process, a decision I'm making, particularly in my business, I'll go. I use Notion and um because I can search it and um will journal there.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Okay, I just heard about Notion. Um, very cool. Okay. Um, okay, so let's talk about this tool called the Kolby. Um, what what is it? How do you describe what it is to people?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yes, so it's uh Colby K-O-L-B-E. Uh, and it's the company's been around for several decades. It's um it's not my intellectual property, it's theirs. They created this assessment. Kathy Kolby's the one that originally um has created it, and they've used it in corporations all throughout the world. And it is not a personality test. Um, it's not measuring your intelligence or your social style, it is measuring how you take action. Uh, and often what's really helpful is is the order, like how you start problem solving when you're um striving to solve a problem based on these like four action modes that it's looking at.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Okay. And then in your opinion, um, because I know that you are personally kind of an Enneagram expert as well, what do you see as being uh one of the biggest differences between the two?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, so um I I call myself an Enneagram enthusiast. Enthusiast, there we go. Yeah, I'm really into it, but I certainly have uh am not certified in it or you know, it's it's more just my own personal um process. But I would say the biggest difference is they really are measuring different things where Enneagram is why you do the things you do, like your motivation um for why you're doing it, and then Colby is how you're going to do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

So good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

And similarly, but uh sorry to interrupt, they they both of them like don't change over time, just like Enneagram Colby, once you take it once and you have your four numbers, those are your numbers. They have done lots of research over time to uh show that it is valid over time. It doesn't change, it's um it's instinctively how you take action.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Okay. And one of the other things that I've noticed as I've been just doing a little bit of research for this with our interview, is that the Enneagram is more kind of well, it's not more, it is kind of an open source assessment. Like all kinds of people can teach it different ways. You can make you can rename things, and there's no Enneagram police, right? Um, but with the Kolby, it's a little different. Am I correct? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Absolutely. So this is uh like I mentioned, if you go to Colby.com, that is uh their website. It's their uh they certify people to teach it. So I'm a certified consultant through them. And as part of that, um, you know, I went through their certification process and their things I do every year to um, you know, keep up with the information. Anytime I'm uh sharing about it, um, I go through like I just wrote several blogs about it that are in uh I've sent to them and they're in um they're pending approval, you know, for them to them to read. There's definitely uh because it's there, they have put all of this research behind it. And um, that's one of the things that drew me to it because it uh is it's been validated with all of this research. And um uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Well, I was gonna say, so depending on your Enneagram type, you might prefer or you know, the Colby because of some of that. So um, and then I want to ask too. So uh how do how do you see it being used? Maybe let's start with an individual and then how a how a team or a leader could use it. So, how could an individual use what they learn? And we're gonna get because you mentioned the four numbers, there's four colors. We're gonna get into that in just a second, but just to kind of again lay the foundation, how could somebody use the cold Kolby in their career or just personal development?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, um, great. And it's definitely uh has applications for both that are really powerful. So for the individual, uh, I think it can help you make decisions, particularly as a um most everybody that I work with, they're entrepreneurs. So it can help you decide. It's not so much like what kind of business you could create, because that's going to depend a lot on, you know, the the your cognitive skills, you know, all of that. Um, but it's how you'll grow your business. So it might inform, for example, if one part, like I was meeting with someone last week, and um well, I'll actually, this is even um right before this call, I was meeting with um an entrepreneur who he's just two months on his own and he does financial advising. And he, his numbers, he leads in fact finding, and then his next is um called implementer, but it's how you deal, it's how much you demonstrate or show what you know. And I went to his website and he had a YouTube, I mean, video where he specifically said he takes complex information and makes it concrete and tangible for people. And that was just a beautiful way. He didn't even know Colby, but he was using it beautifully in his business to really leverage his strengths. So you can imagine, as a financial advisor, there's all of this complex information that he is um helping people understand, but then he uses his implementer to really demonstrate it. Like he even had a one page on his site that you could access that gave you a demonstration, a model of what a financial plan could look like when you work with him. And that was just such a great way of leveraging his strengths to help him grow his business in a way that's gonna look different than another financial advisor who might have a different Colby.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

So good. Okay, so let's go ahead and get into those and we'll come back to how teams can use it because um I want to, and that might actually make more sense. So you mentioned the fact finder and the implementer. What let's go by each one, but just real quick, what are the four? Do you call them types or categories? Action modes. Action modes. Okay, so what give us a quick summary on what those four are and then we'll dive into each one.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, because it's the way uh it's your approach, how you take action in each of these modes. So the first one, fact finder, is how you gather and share information. So the there's a continuum in each of these modes. So your number shows where you fit on that continuum. Uh, the second number you'll get is called follow through. And that is your way, your best way of organizing that's really related to how much structure and process that you need when you're solving a problem. The third number is called quick start, and that is your method of dealing with risk and uncertainty. And then the fourth is implementer, which um Kathy Colby has since said demonstrator is really a better word here. It's she meant implement as in tool. So it's not whether or not you implement, it's all about how you deal with physical space and tangible items and your need to demonstrate something.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Okay, and we're gonna get into example and example for each, just to kind of make that a little bit more how to use in real life. Um so let's start. And just for clarification, the scale goes is what what are the numbers? Uh yes, one to 10. Okay, one to 10. Okay, so I'm actually gonna pull up my results. Okay. Um, and um, I'm gonna have Elizabeth kind of share what that means, and then maybe what the opposite end of the spectrum is and where me and that other person might have some great synergy, but then where we might run into maybe a communication challenge of just a how we work together type of challenge. Um, so the first one is fact finder. I had a number two. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, so um, so that means when it comes to information or data, your approach is going to be to bottom line it. Uh, it's not that you don't care about the information, it's just that you don't need as much in order to take action. Like you can go to get, you can get the gist of something, you could read a summary. Um, one thing I like to say is like uh you could probably read the if you if you were given like a 400-page book that you needed to do to learn to you do your job, you could read the cliff notes and you would you would honestly be able to apply most of the concepts from reading the cliff notes, like that would work for you. I mean, does that does that sound right? How do you see this one? Because we have talked about it a little bit, so you'll be able to explain it a lot better than me because I'm an eight in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I was gonna say, I was gonna ask if you'd be willing to share. Yeah, okay, yeah, as an an eight, we'll come to that. Yeah, I I absolutely feel this one because one of the examples that I had used was like, I have so many books and they're all behind me. And when I go to the library, I just get like a huge handful. Like I get like six. And um, my boyfriend the other day was like, like, you're not gonna read all these books. Like, why do you have all these books? And I know that I will not read them cover to cover, and that's not why I get them. I get them because I like to look at like the chapter titles and get ideas. I like to skim and like I have them laying in every single room. And just like when I'm waiting for my coffee or you know, wherever I'm like, oh, here's this book. I'll just pick up and like read a few sentences and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And I'll just kind of think about that. And I'm not worried, am I gonna finish this book or not? Um, for nonfiction or for fiction, that's a little different. I I like to get through those. Um, but you know, that's just one example of that. Whereas it sounds like on the opposite end of the spectrum is where you are. So what what is somebody, what does that look like for you or or somebody else in a similar position?

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, uh, so I'm an eight in this mode. So this is where I start and this is where I spend the most time and energy. Um, so it's funny that you say that because in some ways we look similar in terms of uh my favorite activity, like to pass the time would be to go to the library or the bookstore and and just look at all the titles and like imagine learning about all these things and just I don't even have to learn them all, but just like imagine being able to uh to to read all these books is is really fun for me. But um what so what it looks like for me, and again, it's when I'm it doesn't mean I'm gonna do it in everything, but when I'm really into something, like when I first discovered the Enneagram, for example. I found every podcast there was to listen to. I found all of the books, uh, a couple of the books I've read multiple times, like all the details. I'm going very precise into the information and really wanting to like go very deep and precise and justify. Like if you asked me, um, you know, for example, how'd you decide you were six? Even you started to hear it a little bit in that. Like I'm saying, well, there's this and there's that. And I could have gone on and on. Like I have uh I'm con I have a pro and con list, I have, you know, a lot. There's never like a quick answer for me where you're more likely to be able to answer off the cuff, uh, to be able to um to give a quick answer. So in communication, um, where we could frustrate each other is I could overshare to the point that like I have to watch and make sure you're not your eyes aren't glazing over and uh kind of wait to see uh what other questions you have and not go too deep in the detail. On the reverse, if I didn't know this about you, I could mistakenly think you didn't care about something if you weren't asking me more questions. I'd be like, oh, well, that didn't interest her that much, which may not be true. It may just mean I gave you enough information, you got it, you can move on. So that's one of the where you can have a communication breakdown, um, particularly if you're working to another communication tip with this one, is if you're working with someone who leads in fact finding, you really want to give them time to ask questions or gather the data they need before moving forward, even if you don't, because uh, and it could frustrate you if you see them like they're it doesn't look like they're doing anything yet, but they're gathering data that's gonna help them move into action. So kind of knowing that's where they're starting, they and they are working towards solving that problem, but that's that's where they're starting can help reduce that frustration.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

I'm kind of laughing because this I'm thinking of this situation. Um, when I was on a team as part of another someone else's company, um, you know, we'd be given like a directive, like, okay, here's the goal, and you know, that this is what you need to do today. And I'm I'm like, okay, let's let's do it. And then there's somebody on our team, he would just have so many questions. Yes. I'd be like, oh my goodness. Stop asking too many questions. But like you said, um, that's what they need. And so just understanding, especially as that, as that team leader, um, to work more effectively with each other, um, just really important to keep in mind. So you're not probably not going to be perfect all the time, but just at least having that awareness.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, and that's a great segue to talk a little bit about team dynamics, because the idea is if everybody on the team uh was like jumping right in and getting started, you might be far down a road on the not necessarily the best strategy. Like you may have you've taken action really quickly and started, you know, making progress. But if you haven't stopped to kind of establish the criteria or set the priorities, you may be take making a lot of progress in the wrong direction. And if everybody was like me that you know was spending a lot of time in the setting the priorities, you could get stuck in that analysis paralysis and you know, so the combination of partnering together and knowing, knowing who which people should be in charge of which part of it, you know, so that we could work together will help the whole team make progress a lot more effectively with a lot less frustration because you have the right people doing the right the task that come most naturally to them.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Yeah. And I will say, like his questions were sometimes, like you said, like we would be like planning to go to a trade show. And he would ask like some really important question about like, well, like how are we gonna set up the booth or like what are we putting on the booth? And everyone else is just like, let's get there. So, you know, exactly what you said. You, you know, you need both of those dynamics very much. So okay, the second um action mode is the implementer. No, second is follow-through. Follow through. Okay, sorry. I'm like, I'm gonna just let you say this. Um, okay, so mine, so I had a five follow-through, which kind of is in the middle. Maybe we could talk about like what are the extremes or like what what would somebody yeah um on the extremes be look be looking like.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah, so uh the continuum is either you uh if you start here, this is people who really their word at their strength is systematized, so they need a lot of structure and uh process, and and that's what they naturally do. So often those are like the project manager types, the people who really can build out the workflow or the timeline really naturally, and that's what they do first. Like they might start by um creating a checklist or or mapping out a plan. Um, and people at the other end, their word is adapt. They're people who are going to kind of look for the shortcuts or do things differently each time. They have a there a lot of flexibility in their approach. Um, so where you are in the middle, that can look like one of two things. That can look like that, depending on the situation, uh, that like whether the other people you're working with are just whatever it is you're doing, sometimes you may um you may create some processes or work with the process. And other times you're more kind of winging the process, depending on what's necessary in that situation. And um, your so your word is maintain. If someone gives you a system and says, this is how we do it, this is the workflow, uh, you very naturally maintain that system. You're not like resisting working within a system, but you don't necessarily need it to be, you don't need it necessarily to take action, and you don't need it to be like fully uh, you don't need a fully baked plan before you're gonna get started.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Okay, and this is one that I found actually most eye-opening now that I'm like looking at my notes. I had started this because um we had this, we had talked about the difference between like what comes most naturally for me as an individual, and then like what I know my business needs. And so I would the the kind of the winging it, yeah, more resonates with me. But then as I'm looking, like I actually want more freedom. And in order to do that, I need to probably bring in people in the future, and in order to do that, I need to get all this stuff out of my head. So I'm looking at how I can make processes and systems. Um, so that's maybe where that middle ground comes from right now, anyway. And then the other thing that I found interesting was the the idea of maintaining. And I loved what you had shared during our reading because you had said maybe it it'll it might be a little bit more difficult for you to like create your own tracking process spreadsheet. But if you're given one, like you would have you're okay with maintaining it. And that resonated with me so much because I'm like, yes, I just need a template. If I can get a template, I'm good. But like it's so difficult for me to see a blank page and like understand the steps without somebody pulling it out of me, I guess. So that was like, okay, I guess if I have to do that, then I may need to work with somebody to pull it out of me. Otherwise, I'm just gonna continue to struggle and procrastinate on that project.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yes. And the idea again, it's not that you couldn't do it, it's just not gonna be the best use of your time and energy. And uh, so partnering with somebody else is uh is would be a great option for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Very difficult. Okay, so the third one is called quick start on mine. I had see yeah, okay, mine was a nine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yes. Uh so this is all about your method of dealing with risk and uncertainty. And so you start here. Um, so I I would love for you to share how this shows up for you in terms of um your innovating and experimenting and brainstorming. Like, how does that show up in terms of helping you in your business or in your life?

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Well, I one of the things that resonates most with me as an Enneagram 7 is the ideas part. Like I have a lot of ideas. I have a whiteboard over here that's a whole wall. I also have a really full idea graveyard of just ideas that never got executed on a lot. Yes, a parking lot. There you go, there you go. Just a parking lot. I like that better. Um, and so I do like I see ideas all the time. And I think brainstorming, my coffee mug actually says brainstorming is my love language, and that very much resonates. And then when it comes time to actually do it or do it again and again, it's like great. So I think I had shared with you like one of the things that I struggle with as a business owner is sticking to the plan because I want to do all these different ideas. And so over the course of my own journey um having a having a business, I realized like I'm constantly like having new ideas and shifting gears. And then I'm like, why did I do that? That was a good idea. Why did I change it? So I change for the sake of change sometimes, or it's like not exciting versus it's not working. And I would not know that it's not working because I haven't I've I did it one time. And I'm like, oh, did that move on. Um, so that is something that I don't know that I'm I need to to change about myself, but just be be aware of and kind of question, not be so impulsive about gear shifting. Sometimes it can be a good thing, but also it can you know be a detriment.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

That was a great, I knew you would would uh would illustrate it better than than I could. So yes, that's exactly so many of the things you mentioned are things I hear from people who lead in quick start. So that would be if you're seven, eight, nine, or ten in quick start, that means that's where you start with that problem solving. Uh and yeah, so the idea behind it is is not that um I do hear a lot of entrepreneurs say they kind of beat themselves up about it, like, oh, I have all these ideas, but I haven't, you know, stuck with them or and um feel this kind of uh shame around that. And the idea behind understanding your this through the Colby lens is recognizing that this is where you're making your greatest contribution and really figuring out how you can set up your business or your life that will allow you to capture those ideas and really allow you that space to have the ideas, but then build some structure around you or some accountability around you that can be a sort of a guardrail to help you um identify the ones that are the most practical given your resources or your timeline and help you um stay stay focused on the ones that that are most important for where you are right now. But it's it's not to I hear a lot of people who lead in quick start say, I want to rein in my ideas. And oh, that just makes me uh I don't love, I don't like that word because we don't want to rein them in. Like that's where your your ideas is where uh you're really able to uh make the greatest contribution, but there are ways and strategies we can figure out how to create some support around you that allows you to still be in that idea space, but you know, stay on track as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Okay. Um, and and you know, that's a that's such a great point um about like shaming yourself because there's that book, like the one thing. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. And I have just like, I'm like, oh, I will use that book to shame myself all the time. I'm like, oh, the one thing. Um, so that's interesting. But what about somebody who is maybe on the opposite end of that spectrum? What does that look like for them?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Yeah, and I'm glad you asked this because this is something I definitely want to bring up in terms of entrepreneurs. I hear uh people sometimes think, oh, if I don't lead in quick start, I can't be an entrepreneur. And that is absolutely not true. I have worked with so many entrepreneurs who are at the opposite end of that continuum. Now, it does inform how you will grow your business. You are much more likely to um probably embrace a slow, deliberate growth more than a um a rapid growth strategy. Uh so there are some, I mean, that's being very general, but it can inform how you grow your business. But anyone can be an entrepreneur, it's just gonna show up differently. So at the other end, their word is stabilize. And so where you innovate, they are are stabilizing. And so they are, when it comes to risk and uncertainty, they are creating a lot of um standards, they are uh protecting what's already working, they are removing uncertainty and and minimizing risk. Uh, so they're gonna be clarifying deadlines, they're gonna be the people that might feel like the Debbie Downer in terms of to you, when you have a lot of ideas, they're gonna be the kind of, oh, but what about this? What about this? Uh, where they can make you really contribute. Yes, you're laughing. And so the idea though is once you both recognize that, like this is the space I sit in, I'm a three in this mode. So now that I, and I feel this one very much, uh, but now that I know this about myself, it helps me when I'm working with other people who sit like where you are. I also know, like you're gonna help me think of things in a way that I wouldn't have thought of before. And you're gonna help me maybe spot trends that I might have not spotted so we can support each other and where I might be able to point out some watch outs or some things that could some um some uh places where your ideas could go off track and cause problems, you're gonna like I might be able to point out the best, the worst case scenario, you're gonna bring out the best case scenario and help me see that. So by partnering, um, you can see how in a team, uh, particularly if you have someone in the middle to help uh mediate and navigate our conversations, uh, that we can, when you have someone with all the approaches, it can really help move the team forward.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

So interesting. And not, I know that the Colby doesn't necessarily complement or overlap with the Enneagram, but as you were talking, um, I was thinking of one of my good friends who also has her own business. She's a type six, and she um is so great at all those things that you were just saying, you know, kind of seeing the blind spots, the potential potholes, what could go wrong, and then also just offering additional ideas around like how to actually make it happen. And so we've talked about hosting an event together, and she's like, you can name the things, you're good at naming, yes, exactly. And so, you know, that feels like a good partnership, and I would feel really good about that. Um, but I could also see we could how we could maybe frustrate each other in that process. But um, again, just kind of understanding how people see the world differently than us.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yes, but that was such a great illustration of exactly how you could use through use Colby to help you divide up the task. And on that, just um one suggestion there for with your friend, if there's a number, if one of the modes that you're in the same, um, you're more similar, that can sometimes be a place where you can find common ground. Like for you and I, we are both uh in the that maintain and follow through. And so if we were working together, if we could agree on a plan, and neither of us are going to be too rigid about the plan, but that could kind of be our common ground that we could come back to to help us with some of the other um modes where we might have have uh more potential for conflict. We could solve them through that planning mode.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Okay, okay. Um, and then lastly, Elizabeth, we have that fourth category, and that is around the implementator, implementer or demonstrator. Yes. And for me, um, I had a two. So maybe we can talk about that and then what the other end looks like.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah. Um, so people who lead in this, so like seven through ten, they really have a need to demonstrate uh with physical or tangible. It's like concrete versus abstract at the other end. So people who lead in this, which um in the online space, I don't meet many people who lead in this mode because part of leading in this mode is wanting to be like using your hands or being physically in person with people. So you don't see as many in the online space in that seven through ten. Um and then people at the other end, they envision. Uh, so they create uh, they can conceptualize, they conceptualize solutions, they envision they're not as uh, they don't spend as much time and energy with um the physical space or the tangible items. This would show up a lot more if you had a product-based business, uh it where you would really want to either have yourself or partner with somebody who's in that seven through ten space to make sure that the product is like, you know, gonna um have good quality parts and the equipment, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Okay, okay. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Um, I I know we've touched on this just a little bit, but one of the questions that I get asked one most often, um, especially talking with companies and teams, is okay, this is really interesting about the Enneagram, the different descriptions, but now how do I use it? Like, what do we actually do with it? So I'm gonna ask you the same thing about the Colby. How, like, where in the company, where in the process, do you see the Colby being most effective for application?

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Yes. So I think the uh most powerful ways to use it are in job alignment uh and in communication. So Colby, we've been talking all about the Colby A index, which is usually the first introduction to Colby, people have, uh, but there are several other assessments that they have available, including the Colby B, which you take on your role. And it shows when you compare the two, it is going to highlight places where um you're likely stressed out. And then the idea is you're a risk for burnout. Because uh if you if your job is requiring you to behave in a way that doesn't come naturally to you, again, it's not that you can't do it. And sometimes really uh qualified, capable people can do it for a long time, but they're feeling it on the other end, you know, they're coming home drained and eventually um it could either lead to burnout or leaving. And often there can be a way, once you understand um where the point, you know, what's causing that problem. Sometimes there are ways to rework the job that they can still um, you know, get that result, but in a different way, doing it in a way that comes more naturally to them. So it's just a great tool for leaders to kind of initiate those conversations with their team members in an objective way. Because what I love about it and what I think is so powerful is without Colby, things aren't working, right? And you know there's frustration and you can tell something's not working, but you could mistakenly think, oh, I hired the wrong person, like they don't have the skill set, even though everything on paper looked like they do, or they they they do seem to know how to do it, but they're just not doing it in the way that that you want. Or you could think it's a personality conflict. And you know, if you don't have ways to tease that out, um, so often, like people part ways because they just think it's not a good fit, and it might have been, you know. So I would encourage people if they think they have the right person, you know, they went through all the steps in hiring, but something's not quite right. Colby gives you another tool and it's objective, it comes with a report that like helps, you know, I can come in and facilitate those conversations. So it kind of um equips the leader with an a way to have those conversations that that um Feels like there's this third objective party in the room, you know, this Colby analysis that can identify some points on what's not working about that role for that person based on their strengths, you know, not based on faults. So that would be the job alignment. Any questions about that before I go into the communication piece?

SPEAKER_01 44:21

No, that sounds, yeah. I mean, that sounds incredibly valuable and needed in a lot of situations for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah. I mean, yes, there are times that it might show it, it might show this person isn't the best fit for the job, but more often than not, there's a way you can rework the job or the expectations, either from the person or the um supervisor, you know, to make that a good match. And then the other piece of it is the communication. You know, once you know where you sit, and then especially if you know where the other people in the room their approach, it can really help for more productive communication. Um, like for example, on the fact-finding mode. Um, for everybody, no matter where you sit on fact-finding in a group situation, it's always going to be more productive to go to the bottom line and provide all of the detailed justifications in like support materials that people can read on their own. Or, you know, so even if I want all of that detail, I don't need to, we don't need to discuss it in a group situation. That's not going to be the most effective. So there's a couple of things like that in each mode that can help, or just even in um in a whenever conflict comes up, there's definitely uh understanding the approach in each of these modes can help you uh appreciate where the other person's coming from.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Absolutely. Absolutely. Now I know that you work with individuals and teams specifically for these issues, entrepreneurs, job alignment, communication, conflict, that kind of thing. I want to um have a couple more rapid fire questions. But before we get to that, tell us a little bit about how you are specifically working with people, where we can find out more about you, connect with you on social media, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yes, thanks for asking. Uh, so the two places, well, the main place to start, I would say, would be to do a Colby interpretation, uh, which is what you and I did. It's so funny because you called it a reading, and it does feel that way sometimes. I've I've actually started to say to people, if I sound like a fortune teller, please stop me. Like I want to check in. And you know, this is this is what this report's saying. But the main goal of the interpretation is to check in with you and see validate it. Is this, does this feel accurate for you? How is it showing up for you? And and and see if these numbers um see how they are showing up. So yeah, so that would be the place to start. I would say probably for everybody. If you've never sat down with someone and had an interpretation, we do it in a 15-minute call. And um, that really gives us a chance to to validate the results for you and get into some of the ways you can apply them. And then um working with teams. And this can be a even a small team, um, you know, even two people. If you're working with that person regularly in your business, it can really be powerful to uh understand this about each other. But coming into you know, a team of eight, a team of 10, I can do it virtually, I can do it in person and helping you um, you know, everybody on the team takes the colby. So I have all that information and do an analysis of how your team can communicate more effectively, work more productively.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

And then where where are you on on the internet?

SPEAKER_00 47:47

How do we learn about it? Thank you. So um ElizabethCook Consulting.com is my website, and I'm most active on LinkedIn, just at Elizabeth Cook, and I love to connect with you there. So I um am showing up there pretty regularly. So that's a great place. If you just want an introduction to Colby and how you might can use it as a place to dip your toe in, that's a good place to start.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

I think that's how we met. I usually like to share how we got connected, but I think we just yeah, randomly met on um LinkedIn. So that's really fun. And I think the reading shows like my wooness because sometimes I'm like, oh, my psychic reading, my energy reading.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Um, so that is too funny. I'll go with personal, and this kind of brings me back to my Enneagram six, but um Finding Your Own North Star by Martha Beck. I read it several years ago and found it really powerful for connecting with my inner voice, like we were talking about earlier.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

So good. Okay. And then as an entrepreneur, um, or just somebody in their career who wants to stay organized or be more efficient, what is a tool that you use to help you do that?

SPEAKER_00 48:56

So for productivity and efficiency, I'm all about clickup. I uh I mean it's it's great for large teams, but I just absolutely love it for myself. And uh I have everything in ClickUp and it's I feel like it's the boss of me. I sit down and just open it up and it tells me what to do that day.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Is well, I should say, how do you define success for you, Elizabeth Cook? Because there's all this, you know, all these articles and tips and advice for how to be successful. Um, but then interestingly enough, we sometimes get to that place and it's like, well, gosh, like I don't know if this is actually how I would define success. And then we kind of have to take a re a re-look at that. So for you, how how have you defined success? What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Uh it's interesting you should ask this because I have um on my own personal development journey have really just been looking at that and uh considering redefining it. So I um in the past, I would have always said it's when my um my time and my like activities on my calendar match my values. Uh integrity is super important to me and like being in alignment um is definitely a high priority. So I that that's the answer I used to always give to that question. So that sounds a little one-ish, doesn't it? But uh anyway, as I've in this next stage, I'm and I'm in a uh my I have three adult daughters, and last year the younger two started college. So I feel like I'm in this very like dividing point in life where everything up to this point was, you know, with them at home and very focused on on them. And now I have like the rest. Um, so I've it's just kind of caused me to take stock. And lately I've been playing around, I'm not quite ready to commit to it, but I've been playing around with this idea of like playing full out. And yeah, it feels a little scary, but when I think about now um living my best life, when I think about the second half, like approaching the second half, I want, I really want to play full out, and I feel like so. This might be where the six creeps in. I feel like I'm often, and I am naturally good at kind of um guarding my time and energy or reserving my resources and making sure I have enough for for this and that, but it it can make me feel a little bit like I'm not playing full out, like I'm leaving something on the court sometimes, that kind of thing. And so I I want to feel like at when I reach, you know, 80, when I I want to look back and say, I really played full out, full out. I was I was all in, I wasn't like holding back. So that's what I'm teasing, I'm playing around with. I I I can't uh to be honest, I can't say that I feel like I've I live that now, but that's what I'm thinking of living into.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I love that. So would you say like full out is just like you get an idea and you just pursue it, or like what what else what would you add to that?

SPEAKER_00 52:20

What does that look like for you? Okay, I'm glad you asked for clarification because that would very much go against my Colby. Okay. Okay, that that wouldn't be, I mean, my that was my initial thought. Yeah, no, and it I think that's why that is um, yeah, it it doesn't really jive with kind of my my um Colby. I'm always going to um be methodical in my approach, you know, because based on that's what my Colby shows. But I I suppose what it means for me is that um I am spending most of my time in in the present fully engaged and like really not holding back as opposed to um either anticipating, you know, what might be the consequences of that in the future, which I spend a lot of time in that kind of energy, or um thinking about, you know, how did that go? How did that sound? What could I have done differently? Which I also spend a lot of time in that energy. So really applying doing it in my Colby way, uh, but but just um, I don't know, like playing full out, going all in on things.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Yeah. Well, and I like that you said that it can it can be because there might be like a stereotype idea of what going all out means. And then it's like, well, how can you take that idea and then like apply it to like your natural tendencies so that it it kind of flows that you're actually able to do that? Um, okay. My last question is, and thank you for being um so open and sharing that. And I think so many of us have those ideas that are still like kind of a work in progress. And so um appreciate you just sharing where you where you are. What we have we have covered a lot today, Colby, Enneagram types, personal development growth. Um, is there anything that I haven't asked you today that you want to share with us in order to make this interview specifically feel complete?

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Just that I guess just from my perspective, at least from the um that the time spent in self-awareness, I think is so worth it. And I think I could imagine from an Enneagram perspective, you could probably explain why everybody struggles with it in some way, you know, or or might, or it's because even for some people, maybe they they indulge in it, but it can be um not necessarily there's probably watch outs for everybody, but I think it is uh just such a powerful whatever tool you're using uh to do it. And and honestly, I think a combination of all the tools for me has really it's like I think of it like a um maybe a diamond, like having, you know, Colby is like seeing one side of it and um the Enneagram's like another. The more facets you can see, like the richer uh you'll know yourself. And I just think that's a worthwhile endeavor.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Absolutely. I love that. What a great way to end. Um, well, Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here and for all that you shared. Definitely get connected with Elizabeth over on LinkedIn. Let her know that you listened and any of your takeaways. I know guests always really appreciate hearing from you. So thank you so much, Elizabeth. Thanks, sir.