SPEAKER_02 0:00

I don't know if you've ever done this, but on a regular basis, I find myself saying things like, a part of me just wants to go off and do this. Or a part of me is thinking that I should do this. And then there's another part that is thinking something in direct conflict, another part of me. Or um, a part of me feels this way, and then a part of me also feels this other way. And it's like, what are all these parts? Who are all these other people inside of me, or where is all this coming from? And today we are going to start scratching the surface of something called parts work. This is something that I'm just now really starting to even learn about myself. And we have an incredible guide to walk us through this kind of parts work 101. Katie LaSalle is a strategic coach. She's a leadership coach, and she is an internal family systems coach who runs her own company called Chrisana to help others create their own guide to what actually brings them peace and joy while still supporting their passions and daily responsibilities. So, in this episode today, we're going to learn a little bit about who what are all these parts inside of us, and learn about this model called the Internal Family Systems or IFS model and gain some additional insight and understanding about how who we are right now, how our past has impacted who we are right now. Um, give us some ideas for maybe parts of us to start with the growth work on, and then also looking at how does this work and information about ourselves and others also overlap with what we are learning about ourselves through the Enneagram. So very foundational episode into this very deep and complex topic. Um, we may end up leaving with more questions than answers, but the questions are going to be more meaningful, um, helping us get to a deeper understanding of ourselves. So I'm really excited for you to hear from Katie and to uh jump into this topic about parts work. You're listening to the Enneagram MBA podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm excited to be diving into this week's episode with you. I I think too, it's not just how does it impact our Enneagram type, but it's really how does it impact our our adulthood and just kind of our personality. So we're going to be talking about um, and I correct me if I'm wrong, is a a method or a theory called IFS.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah, yeah. So it's um it's actually an evidence-based therapy model. Um IFS stands for internal family systems. And I think one of the really interesting things about the model is um it's it's not just therapists who are kind of being trained. There are other practitioners that are that are also being trained. I'm I'm a coach, I'm not a uh clinician, um, but I've been you know fully trained in the model and and am able to use it with clients. And it's really amazing for things like building confidence and kind of shifting mindset blocks and um all these things that we kind of do in leadership coaching that are really important, um, especially professionally. Uh so it's a really great way to, really great tool to use for that.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

And what exactly what exactly is it that you're talking to clients about with that model?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yeah. So the model, kind of like the center of the model, says all humans have parts, and parts are kind of like subpersonalities. Um, and those different parts might have different jobs within our system. So, for example, like when you're at work, you might have a work persona that kind of shows up, especially if you're talking in a meeting or you know, giving a presentation. There might be kind of like a part of your personality that comes online in that situation to help you out. And um the way IFS talks about it is it says that all of these parts are kind of natural and normal. They're a part of the human experience. However, depending on what you experience while you're kind of growing up, some of these parts take on burdens. And that's where it kind of starts to relate to trauma and you know what we kind of carry with us. And I know in the Enneagram model, you talk about um, you know, core beliefs, and that's kind of another piece of what you talk about with parts is that some of them hold on to these core beliefs from when they were very young and they kind of get stuck. So um all developmental adaptations make sense in the context that they were developed. But when you get older and you have different experiences, you might continue doing the same thing, but it might not make as much sense for you anymore. Um, so the model is really about how do we kind of get to know these parts, understand what they're doing and why, and maybe over time with some self-trust, maybe get them to do something else.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Okay, I love that you said that. Um, really two things. One, what is that it sounds like what this model helps us do is bring awareness to maybe some thoughts, feelings, beliefs that are no longer serving us, that absolutely did serve us at one point. Um and so I love that. And we talk a lot about that too with the with the Enneagram, that there's no good or bad necessarily or strengths or weaknesses, even. It's just how you're using it. Yeah. Um, and then the idea of parts. I I I I love this. I I'm not versed in it well enough. So we'll have to talk a little bit more about it. Um, but that is another question that I get a lot is that, well, Sarah, I'm I'm a three at work, but at home, I'm I feel like I'm a nine. Or I was a, I was, I was a seven in my twenties, but now I'm a I'm a one in my in my 50s or whatever. And so it's like, well, part of me is this. And so um that that's interesting. We'll dig into that a little bit more about how that how that can happen and maybe how that can help us find our type. Did you tell me that you had identified with a specific Enneagram type yet?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Um, that's a great question because I think it leads really well into what I'm curious about. Um I have never really felt like I consistently, you know, get one type. Um, I've tested as a one, eight and a nine, which are kind of all different. And I know that I have like a very strong part who's a five, right? So, like this is where I get curious. There's this concept called self-like parts. Um so the self is in IFS, it's like the the wise internal system leader. So it's the only piece of your system that's that's not a part. It's kind of like your core um self that kind of holds that confidence and curiosity and clarity. There's there's eight C's, I won't list them all. Um, but kind of bringing that self-energy on board and and um getting parts to really feel that is part of that process of developing trust within your system. And my curiosity is, you know, do you test differently depending on if there's a part active, right? Like if you're thinking about a work context or if you're at home, like some of your clients have asked you. And also if we're all, you know, really grounded and kind of really in self-energy, would we all kind of test very similarly? Like what kind of what causes these differences? Is it just active parts or I don't know? These are kind of the the questions that I'm always asking myself.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah, it's such good questions. Um, well, what what's interesting is um I I don't know, I don't know what this means, but the one, eight, and nine are all in that body center of intelligence. And so they all have this relationship with um anger, either it's overactive or repressed or just completely ignored. Um and there's some issues around autonomy and control. So I I don't know, I don't know what that means. Accurate. Yeah, there might be there maybe something there. Um, and and you know, sometimes it's not even I I do think now that this is me. Um, as an Enneagram person, I'm I'm probably biased. Um, I do think that there's a lot of value in getting to understanding which one is driving the bus most of the time because there's a lot of fluidity, and so you can um do some deeper work once you identify that. However, I also think there's doesn't have to be a rush to get there. And I think you know, understanding these parts of us, like you're talking about, it is a way to maybe consider things that we hadn't thought about before or reflect on, and like you said, just get curious about. Yes, yes, and so um I'm curious, I'm curious. Um what about is there anything, and if and if not, that's okay. But is there anything at the top of your mind that's about the eight or the nine or the one that is jumping out at you or that jumps out at you that makes you think, oh, this like this really resonates with me at work, or I can see this showing up? What what does if if you're willing to share?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, absolutely. Um I definitely think that the eight is a is a self-like part that kind of formed as this is my idea of what I'm going to need to advance in the workplace, right? Like I'm gonna need to be assertive and I'm gonna need to be like very decisive and um, you know, never kind of show that I that I don't know what I'm doing or um and and kind of protect my team and protect my people. Like I think that was a very strong piece of who I was as a leader for quite a while. Um, honestly, probably until I started getting some leadership coaching, which started to kind of deconstruct that and get to kind of the fear behind that, you know, of like loss of control and not being able to take care of people and um, you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Okay. And this just made me think of another question. And this again, maybe I'm projecting or I'm I'm not I'm stereotyping people, but in my experience, um, in some of these like leadership trainings or like these corporate trainings, it's like, oh, let's not get too emotional or like definitely stay away from the childhood um parts.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

I actually had some, I I've I'd share just a brief summary of something. They're like, we need to take that out. Um, so how how I guess I'm trying to think like what my question is here. How do you how does somebody like incorporate this like oh this kind of vulnerable piece with this maybe person they feel like they have to be or this energy at at work or in these leadership roles?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I can speak from my own experience and maybe it'll resonate with some other folks. But um, for me, I think uh, you know, employing that part, employing at work was um, you know, really just about not feeling safe and um really not, yeah, like really not having a felt sense of safety kind of deeper within my own self, which within my context of you know how I grew up, I I am, you know, a childhood trauma survivor, I do have complex BTSD. Like there, there are things that make a lot of sense why that would be a reaction of my system to like, okay, I'm not gonna let any of this in. I'm gonna project kind of this um, you know, really like almost bulletproof persona that just knows exactly what they're doing and is incredibly competent and um just kind of hiding behind that.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah, yeah. Is are there themes or like common challenges that you've noticed in your work that leaders will struggle with? Um, and maybe that's it, just the the need to, is there any, I guess, is there anything else you would add?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Well, so I would say that most of the people that I coach are not eights, which is funny. Or at least I don't think they are. I think, you know, a lot of the people that I'm working with are are really more on the one side, which I also understand. I have a very strong perfectionist self-like part as well. Um so, you know, when what I really encounter with a lot of the folks that I work with these days is more of this fear of you know not getting it right, anxiety of um, you know, what happens if I make a mistake?

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

That's more of what I'm working with. I honestly, a lot of my parts are are almost afraid to work with AIDS or people who I perceive as AIDS because um they're they don't want to be bullied.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

So you had you had reached out and about kind of this this working theory or just kind of being curious. Yeah. And what what I guess just what was it that kind of got you, what was it about the IFS and what you were working on and then what you were learning about the Enneagram that made you start to to have that curiosity?

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it came up because actually my my partner got tested at work. So we were having we were having a conversation specifically about the Enneagram. And he he's not someone that I would expect to be like all in on a test kind of like like this, but he was like, it actually made a lot of sense. Like I really he's a nine, by the way. Okay. Um he was like, you know, I could really see it in other people. And you know, they were saying, Oh, I don't know about this, but I was like, oh, I see it. So, so that made me really curious because I he surprised me, right? Like that he was really like, oh yeah. So it that got me looking into it a bit more and um, you know, thinking through my own really strong self-like parts. So I've got a scientist, I've got a perfectionist, I've got the like the powerful leader one, I've got like a a caretaker, I've got a um like a one I call the conservationist, right? Like, so I've got all these parts that I'm aware of in my own system from kind of doing that work and learning a little bit more about the Enneagram and just kind of thinking, huh, I wonder how this is showing up in uh in the systems of other folks and really that curiosity about are types always parts? Or is it somewhere along a spectrum? You know, if we all had self-energy, we'd be like right in the middle of the Enneagram circle all the time. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

I love the question. I think it's I think it's really well, and and um with the Enneagram, it does have that fluidity. I think that is it makes it a little bit different from some of the others, where it's like, you know, in stress, you know, this I could look like this other type, or when I'm really really living my best life, I could look like this other type. And then even within the type, there's like levels of development. I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's like you're gonna look like an eight in that stereotypical level or the average, but in health, you might look like completely different. Um, and so it's just interesting, I think, to to to question. And and I think that that is what I one of the biggest things I've gotten from it. Um, and what I love about this conversation is that it's just you don't have to know all the answers. I think there's like a lot of pressure to be like, I am a type, or this is me, or I you know, I know the answer. And it's like, well, I I don't know. I think this really resonates, uh, but why? And and then like having a conversation with your partner or your teammate, um, and just giving you some language around that. Um, speaking of of benefits, what are some of the benefits you have seen from your clients or just in general with people who and maybe yourself again, working through the IFS model?

unknown 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

So I just think it is an incredible way for developing self-trust, self-compassion, and self-knowledge. And to me, those are really like the cornerstones of being able to show up in your life the way that you want to show up in your life. Um I think we hear so much about oh, well, you really got to trust yourself. Like that's that's how you gain confidence. That's how you get the things you want to, you know, get. But how do you develop self-trust? Right. Like there's a lot of things we say, well, you need to love yourself, you know? Okay, how? And the model for me was really a missing piece from okay, I'm trying to, you know, when I was really stuck in kind of my achiever, like I was trying to achieve mental health, right? So I would go out there and I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna drink all the green juice and like I'm gonna go to bed early and I'm gonna exercise, but not too much. And like, you know, all these rules for how am I gonna achieve health. And the model really teaches you to meet yourself where you're at every day. Um, and have compassion for where you're at. Like it's not gonna change the things that happen to you. It's not gonna mean you're not sad or angry or sometimes even, you know, have despair. It's it's just means that you are able to have compassion for that, like to leave space for it, um, and to know that it's temporary and and and it'll change. Um kind of like going through your life with a best friend in your head, right? Like really developing that relationship between your system.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

That is that is really interesting. And it actually just made me think of something else um with the with the Enneagram. Um, are you familiar with um it's called Soul Child? Like, I don't know that there's a lot of science behind this. Um, one of my favorite Enneagram teachers, he's actually a therapist, um, Michael Shann, I believe, S-H-A-N, um, and he teaches Enneagram for therapists. And he had this really cool series that he took from the work of somebody else, but the way that he explained it was just easier for me to understand. But he was saying that each type kind of has this um this person who they wanted to be, or this child who they wanted to be, but felt like they couldn't for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

And so then they covered that up and then that's yes, yes, that that actually translates perfectly to IFS language. Um so IFS kind of categorizes parts, and we've got what we call protector parts, and those are our managers and our firefighters. So our managers are kind of like the proactive protectors. Like, um if you have a part that always handles scheduling, right? It's like I gotta be on top of it with the scheduling. Like, that's the part that would plan for the future to kind of like to keep you safe, keep your system running. A firefighter is gonna be a reactive protector. Um, so let's say that like you have a really bad day at work and you come home and like you're furious and you're in and um you're like, well, I just need a glass of wine to calm down. Like that would probably be a firefighter part that would be doing that. Cause it would, it's not, it's reactive instead of proactive. And underneath these protector parts are what we called exiles. And exiles are kind of exactly what it sounds like you know, you were learning about, which is typically these parts of us that are really stuck, that are stuck at a very kind of young age and that have this core belief like I'm bad or I'm not worth anything, or no one loves me. And the job of these protectors is basically to cover up that exile and to kind of keep that from coming out and spilling over into your life. So it actually sounds very, very similar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Oh, that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

So, can I give you an example? Yeah, and if you want to add on to it. So I was reading, um, and this kind of sounds like maybe this achiever in you. Um, a lot of groups that I go into have a lot of sixes on the teams. That seems to be one of the top topics. Or sixes are known as the troubleshooter, the skeptic, and their kind of core driver is to feel safe and secure. And so they're always not always, but a lot of time spent planning for the future, like you were talking about that manager. Um, ideally, so the firefighter doesn't have to come out and they have a contingency plan for a contingency plan, and they're always prepared. Um, but in the series, and the the concept, I guess, of the soul child is there um is the type nine. And it says within every six is just a lazy little one who just wants to stay under the covers, doesn't want to get out and face the world, and just wants to be comfortable and entertained, but they feel like they have to push themselves to make sure that they can be safe and secure so they don't allow themselves the luxury of sleeping in or napping. Um, and so I thought that one was really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yes, yes, that makes so much sense. And definitely part of my achiever's job in the past, like before I worked work with that part a bit, was to cover up the fact that, you know, there was this core belief that like if I stop, I'm not worth anything.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Right. Like, and that part also really gets triggered. Like my partner has a better relationship with rest than I do. So, you know, if you come home and the house is right a mess and your partner's like laying on the couch relaxing, like who hasn't had that experience where you know, you blow up at your partner, like, what are you doing? Must be nice. Right. And, you know, just speaking for me, not speaking for anyone else, like that is coming from inside. You know, that's coming from there's a desire within me to be able to just lie there and relax while things are a mess, right? But that part saying, well, we can't do that. Um, so absolutely, definitely, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, I thought I was like, that is really good. Um, the one, so I identify most as a type seven. And um, the soul child, by the way, for those that are listening, um, is also known as kind of the the growth arrow. Um, but it says, so for a seven, it's type five, which is kind of the most one of the more introverted energies. And it was saying, um, you know, you felt like you had to be kind of put on the positive face and be entertaining or, you know, don't be recluse. And um, it just made me reflect on my own childhood. My dad was a preacher, and so just as a preacher's kid, like being visible all the time. And I thought that was really interesting, but um learning about that, and if you want to add anything to this, please do because I'm curious. It's been really, it's almost like um like a permission slip. It's like, oh, okay, I can just be, I can just read a book and not talk to anybody. Like that, that's okay. Um, like, oh, okay, well, I'm gonna do that then. Or maybe like the six, feeling like, wait, I could just sit on the, I could just nap. Like it's two o'clock. Could I is that could I do that? It's like, yes. And so it's almost like, yeah, a permission slip. And it just feels really good when you when you have the language and the the understanding.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, absolutely. And like really understanding that makes sense why you would, you know, feel like you needed to put a performance on, right? And be on and maybe do some masking. Like, I don't know, I'm putting that on you. I don't know if that's been your experience, but you know, here's the person that I need to be in order to show up in the way that I'm expected to. But what's underneath that? Like maybe, maybe I'm really tired, or maybe like I want to be a little more quiet. And that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah, it feels so good. And it's like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm almost I'm 38. And so it's like, oh my gosh, I'm just learning this. Um, there's a lot of talk these days, and granted, I follow a lot of um therapy accounts on Instagram. So this is this is me too. I don't know. Um, but there's this whole idea of like reparenting yourself. Yep. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Yeah, so that's actually a big part of um what you're doing with the IFS model. So um in that language, it means for me finding a part who is stuck and who is very young. Like I've got, you know, parts in my system that got stuck at 14, I've got parts in my system that got stuck at six, I've got parts that got stuck at two. Um, and really meeting that part where it's at. And this is this is maybe kind of embarrassing, but might be interesting to people. I've actually like Googled before, what do you feed a two-year-old? Because I don't have children. And um I had a two-year-old part that like really wanted to be like nourished in that way. And I was like, how do I care for this part? Like, how do I show up for this part and give it what it needs? And so I found myself, you know, Googling, like, what do you feed a two-year-old? Um, so to me, it's like really meeting like what what's developmentally appropriate for whatever part you're you're dealing with. Cause like in in IFS terminology, it's not just one inner child, it's it's many. And they all might have different needs. Like the teenager might need, I don't know, permission to go, to go to a rage room and like hit things safely with a baseball bat, right? Like I think reparenting means like meeting them where they're at and doing your best to kind of give them the things that they were missing or that they kind of need to to move on or to let things go.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

What is your what are your thoughts on nature versus nurture? Like, does that come up in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Hmm, that's a great question. I don't it doesn't come up much in the work that I do, but it is something that I personally think about a lot. And I don't think I'm gonna have any good answers for you. I mean, we know, we absolutely know that nurture is critical. I think that the thing I would say about nature is that it is my understanding, not being a specialist in this area, but it's my understanding that like in epigenetics and kind of fields like that, that they're discovering that like, you know, intergenerational trauma can actually be in in the genes and that there might be some relationship between that and diseases that you develop or don't develop, and um, you know, all these different things that can kind of be encoded, but was that because of someone else's nurture? Right. Like so I feel like it's kind of this chicken and egg question of if we're always changing based on survival, right? Based on our this organism as a human trying to survive, then we're gonna adapt however we need to. We're gonna do within the context whatever we think makes sense, what what we're gonna need to survive and whatever we pass on for the next generation to survive. And I'm curious if again, the issue comes in when it's appropriate at the time when it's encoded or at the time when it's like passed down in a nurture way, but then it's no longer working because the context has changed.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Again, just like, oh, I wonder, I wonder about this. And I'm curious too about like birth order. Yeah. Like, how does that impact how you show up? Um, just had a really good conversation about culture and race impacting um, well, the Enneagram, but also just your your personality and the way that you show up. And yeah, um, so there's all kinds of different things for somebody who is into the Enneagram, just kind of personal growth, self-awareness. Um, where is a good place to start learning about kind of childhood, the IFS model? Just like what where listening to this podcast are like, oh, this is interesting. Like, where what's a good step next?

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think it depends on what you how you like to consume media. So I'm a huge reader. Um, so I really like for for IFS, um, the founder of IFS, his name is Dr. Richard Schwartz. He wrote a book called No Bad Parts. Um, it's a really phenomenal, it's written like a like a self-help style book. It's not written like a clinical manual, it's definitely approachable. Um one of the first books that that really cracked things open for for me personally was actually adult children of um emotionally immature parents. It's Lindsay Gibson. Um, if anyone is suspecting, you know, not to demonize parents, but if anyone's suspecting, oh, there might be something there. I found that to be a really like good way to kind of crack the door. Um and I don't have specific recommendations for podcasts, just because I another true confession, I'm not a big podcast listener, even though I really I love being in conversation. Um, but I know there's a lot of really amazing, um, I know there's an IFS podcast out there. And um yeah, I my scientist wants to make suggestions, but I think a lot of the things my scientists like, unless you're somebody who really likes to read hearty clinical, meaty things, is probably not gonna be super approachable.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah, well, I think that book is a great place to start your website. We'll we'll link that here in just a second. But I I want to ask one more question. I um I think before we get into the rapid fire, I think it's one more. Um, is uh and this is kind of a leading question, but what like what does having part like different parts rather than just like, oh, this is you, one thing, like what are these the parts idea or the idea of having multiple parts do? Like what's the benefit or or how does it help us?

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Yeah. So it's an interesting question. Um, I think each part is suited to respond in different situations. So, like for example, think about coming home, right? And you're really tired and you might hear like a voice in your head, and one says, Oh, I should go to the gym. And another one says, I'm so tired, I just want to lay on the couch. Another one says, Oh, the house is a mess, I should clean it. And another one says, Oh, I should cook myself a healthy dinner tonight. And another one says, Let's binge Netflix and you know, drink wine and order delivery. Um so I'm not saying that, you know, each one of those parts is like separate or distinct, but that's kind of how they show up. So if you if you start thinking about what happens, like how when you are reacting, like what are the different, if you hear them as voices or however you you know it works in your system. What are they advocating advocating for? And like getting really curious about why are they advocating for that and where's that coming from? And it's like being self-led is kind of like being a CEO in the middle of a boardroom and you've got like your chief marketing officer and your chief people officer and your chief sales officer, and they all have really good information, but it's siloed. So when you get to the point where you're self-led, you can kind of take in all of the information. Your parts have all these really great specific pieces of information. And then your kind of internal wise leader, your internal CEO can take that information and make really informed decisions rather than a part just being in charge.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

I like that analogy.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, because the COO, you know, they might do a great job, right, with operations running the company, but you know, what about what about the people in the career development? Maybe that falls by the wayside. So you don't want a part to just be in control without you knowing that that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I have one other question, and maybe the answer is this is why you need to hire and I have coach, but is is it how do you know where the parts get stuck? Like how do you know it was six or a teenage where they're stuck?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, so that I'm not gonna say you have to hire a practitioner, um, although I do think it sometimes is essential and can almost always be really helpful. The beautiful thing about this model is like you can self-educate. And there isn't a whole lot of gatekeeping about that because everyone's encouraged to always be doing their own IFS work. All of us practitioners, like we're always doing it. Um, so you absolutely absolutely can do that exploration on your own when you kind of get into your system, and this is where it can be really useful to have another human to help you hold space, is you are really you're getting in touch directly kind of with that part. And sometimes that part will tell you directly. Sometimes you'll know because you ask questions like, How long has this part been with you? And a client will just say, It's five, or like when I was five, like this is what happened. Um because it's usually a there's not always, but a lot of times there is like kind of a moment where it was like, okay, this is when this part picked up this burden. And this is why.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Oh okay, and then we just kind of carry that carry that on.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Yeah, so there's a there's a process, there's a process kind of called unburdening, and um, you know, not every part is ready to do this right away. Like different parts are gonna take longer to trust that it's it's okay to go through this process. But when you when you build the trust and you hear directly from the part about that part's experience, um, you can can do an unburdening process, which is kind of where you witness, you know, what happened and you hear from the part what it needed to be different. Like, you know, let's say that you got bullied really badly in school. Like that part maybe needs a do-over where someone comes in and says, hey, like you need to stop. You need to stop doing this. And then like that changes, or the part might just not want to be stuck in that situation anymore. They might want you to kind of like take them to a safe place within your mind of their choosing. So it's it's kind of personal and different for um each human, and and also it can be different between different parts, but um, you learn directly from the part and um they'll tell you what what they need you to know. And my scientist would like to add that this is what's called a metacognitive model. So it's how do we think about how we think? And um people ask sometimes, well, are parts real? I don't know if parts are real, but it doesn't matter because the neural rewiring process is the same.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

So good. You know what I really like about this is that um I I think I think I think it's just humans probably nature to like want a quick fix. Like I don't have to think because I'm thinking all the time. So, like, what's the best advice? And so let me go to TikTok or Instagram and like see the workout or the soup or like the self-care idea. And then it's like, okay, I'll I'll do that. And then it's like, well, that's not helpful, or it's not the right time. And so what I and I think the Enneagram can help you do this, but any type of model assessment, you know, framework, I think that helps you look at where you are now and maybe where you've been, yeah, where you want to go, and kind of the best way for you in that moment to get there is well worth it, but it takes time and probably emotional draining, I'm sure, as well to kind of go through that. Um, but that seems from what I'm hearing, um, and and what I've seen too in my own life, that seems to be kind of the the best way to actually like grow or get to the results. Um, because it's not you're not doing what somebody else needed and it worked for them. Right. So then it's like, oh, then I'll do this now. It's like, what do I really need and how will that work? Um and we didn't talk about it a lot, and I I thought we would more, but um, just the the idea of you know traumatic events and and trauma. And I think that um I don't have a lot of personal experience with that. I I I know um that is something that you have experience and do, you know, work with in your own with your own clients. Um but I think that's important to be aware of. Um and maybe you can just touch on it really quickly. And here's what I'm curious um to hear. Um, I think it's important to understand that about ourselves. I also think that understanding each other. Um and and maybe I'll just let you comment on that. But I, you know, sometimes we'll um and I'm I'm blanking on like a specific example, but we'll just say, oh, just do it. Like, what are you afraid of? Or what could happen? And it's like, well, something happened, you know, potentially. And so, like, as as a as a boss, um, as a teammate, is there anything that you would offer us to keep in mind um when thinking about that trauma and past experiences?

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah. Um so I think the more that you can kind of do to be grounded, present, and kind of compassionate with yourself, the more other people are going to feel safe in your presence. And to me, uh trauma-informed care means a lot of things. Um, but the most important part for me is am I someone that someone feels safe with? Because these protective parts and potentially, I don't know, but maybe even some of these like enneagram types that activate at work, like these protections come up because a part of us doesn't feel safe. You know, whether it's because we have childhood trauma or there's, you know, systemic racism or whatever it is that's making you feel like I can't let my guard down here. Um, so I think especially as a leader, as a manager, like genuinely doing your own work to be a person who is safe, who has that compassion available in their system. And for me, the more compassion I was able to give myself, the more I had available for everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

That is so good. And that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Cause if you don't give it to yourself, then there's gonna be parts of you that are saying, Hey, what about me?

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Like that's that whole, not to go down another rabbit hole, but that's the whole like unspoken people-pleasing transaction, right? Like, I will go out of my way for you. I'm gonna overextend myself, and in return, you're gonna make me feel like loved or wanted or needed or whatever. And then that resentment when that doesn't happen. Um, but when it's coming from a place of true compassion, it's it's it's agendaless.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

And I was even thinking, like, I'm guilty of like, well, I I can push through. Like, why can't they push through too?

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Like, right. Um I'm guessing a part of you doesn't want to push through. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

And like, you know, how do we give compassion to that? How do you say, okay, I get that? We've done a lot. You're tired. That makes sense. Why don't we go, I don't know, go for a walk or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

And it's like that that's okay. Like, that's okay. Yeah. Um, I've really enjoyed this. Like, I've learned a lot, and I I feel like I have even more questions, which is the point of this conversation. Um, but for anybody who is like, Katie, I'd like to learn more about what you do, where where's the best place to learn more about your work? Um, and and yeah, how can we get connected with you?

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Yeah, so definitely get connected on Instagram. It's at Krisana L C. Um, I think that'll be in the show notes. But it's C-R-E-S-S-A-N-A-L-L-C. Um, and you know, look at the feed. And if you like it, follow, send me a DM. I'll follow you back. And um, the website is just Chrisana LLC.com. And I've got a a free guide to finding your moments of peace. So, along that theme of like not just what did everyone tell me I should love, right? Like meditation and massage, and like, but you know, massage might not work for you if you don't like to be touched by strangers, right? Meditation might not work for you if your brain's so active that you just can't kind of get to that state. So, how do you really find what works for you? And it's a kind of a five-day invitation to just like really pay attention to that in different ways. Um, and yeah, that's that's um I'd love to hear from anyone, you know, and um so excited to have this conversation with you.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah, well, I'm so excited that you're here. I know that I usually ask for a book recommendation. I know that we talked about that. Yeah. Um, I'm curious, just a couple of quick rapid fire as we wrap this up. Um, one of the things that gets uh talked about a lot is is this idea of success. I think, especially here in the United States, we're obsessed with being successful. Yes. Um, I know that you've had some experiences in your own life that have maybe redefined that. So now, what does success mean to you or what does it look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Success to me now means how safe I make other humans feel in my presence.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Is there anything that I haven't asked you today that you want to add on that would make this episode feel complete?

SPEAKER_00 44:41

I think I agree with you that there are just so many other questions. And um, you know, if it works out, I would always be open to doing a part two. Like I feel like there's a lot we didn't even get to. And um I love what I've learned about, you know, how how IFS and the Enneagram kind of intersect and understanding more about it. And just thank you for sharing all that with me.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yeah, you know, I I feel like you could be a great person because there's not a lot. I I don't know if there's even anything out there that overlaps the two. There's a lot that overlaps like Meyersberg in the Enneagram, um horoscopes or your astrology in the Enneagram. Um, but this would be kind of really interesting. So we'll it'll be interesting to follow along with you and kind of see what comes from it. But we'll definitely have to have an another conversation because I think what you the work that you do just so nicely like aligns with the Enneagram conversation and um any tool. Like we want all we want all the things to help us see different pieces and parts and understand ourselves. Um, so I'm excited to have gotten to learn about this model and to have connected with you. Um, I appreciate you being here and please do um connect with Katie. The guests love it, as you would imagine, to hear like even one thing that you're taking away. It it means the world. So reach out, let her know. And uh, Katie will probably be seeing you back here. Yes, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Um, this was just so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

When I'm not planning for the next episode or getting to interview the next podcast guest, I'm probably out doing an Enneagram team training or a group workshop experience. Because while Enneagram MBA is a podcast, it is also a team training company, which means whether you have a team of four or 40 or are planning an event for 400 people, there is an experience that is waiting to be created just for you and your team or organization or event. And I'm gonna invite you to start that process over at enneagrammba.com where you'll be able to check out some of the initial ideas and options and then reach out to get in touch to start planning your own.