SPEAKER_01 0:01

You're listening to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm excited to be diving into this week's episode with you. Welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram MBA Podcast. Today we are going to be learning about the Type 9 energy and what it's like maybe to understand if you are a type 9. And then once you kind of understand what a ha is, what challenges, maybe what makes you cringe as a type 9. And to help us have this conversation is Felicia Holmes. And uh Felicia and I met at an event um uh this year, 2023, and she was just sharing her experience as a type nine and how she uses it in some of her work. And I thought, oh, this would be great to have you on because I always love to hear people's real life experiences. So Felicia, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you. I'm excited. Well, I'm curious, just so we can we'll just hit the ground running with here with this uh question. Um you identify most as a type nine. What is it about that type nine energy that made you maybe finally realize or realize, okay, this is my type?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Um, it was a lot of that um the need for peace, just conflict avoidance at any and all cost, just laying low, doing what uh I had a lot of people-pleasing tendencies. And I always thought that I was a helper. In fact, I even typed as a helper before I really engaged with the Enneagram. Um, but when I really learned about the motivations, which the Enneagram helps you determine or see of what was driving that was more of a, okay, whatever we need to do to keep the peace here, I'll just jump in and and do do that. It was just I as a kid looking back, I you could often find me in a corner reading a book. I love to escape in like there's a lot of that escapism that I could see now too of the dreamer.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yes. Okay. And I'm curious because I know that you are not the only one who, as they are going along their typing journey, um, sometimes can get stuck between a nine and a two. Uh, we were talking before we hit recorded nine and sixes sometimes struggle. Am I this or that? And then there's a lot of two and nines. Am I this or that? So I'm curious, you mentioned people pleasing, um, and then really understanding the motivations. Is there anything else that you would add to some of just that process or your realization that might be helpful for someone else really struggling between those two?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Um so twos and nines do have a lot in common, but what uh some of the differences might be um how we show up in groups, like if you kind of want to fade to the background. The quintessential, I know we get a lot of um kind of ribbing about is you know, ask us where we want to go to dinner.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

And I, you know, we get the I don't care. And a lot of other people don't get that and they don't believe or trust it. But when a nine says it, like literally, I we don't care.

unknown 3:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Oh, that's so good. Um, well, I'm curious too, just to get a little bit more context and to learn a little bit more about you. Um, would you be willing to share uh what you do and then how you have seen kind of your own self-awareness or the type nine be a strength in in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Uh yes. So it has been definitely a journey. And I have really engaged with the Enneagram in the last few years. Um, like I said, I have been familiar with it, and just like with a lot of personality, I just saw it as another personality test. And I'm a real estate agent by trade or Realtor, and we do we love personality tests like the disc and the Myers Briggs, all the things. And so I um I actually found myself burning the candle at both ends, having no boundaries, the whole people pleasing, and in the world of real estate, where you know, and as anybody who um has been anywhere, the market has been just crazy the last few years. So I actually found myself at the end of myself. And I actually decided to um take a break before the pandemic and really evaluate a lot of my own habits and what I was doing because I something had to go. I was either gonna have to give up my career or change some some of my unhealthy habits. And in that process, I actually decided to um take a break from drinking. I was a regular, you know, just like a normal, what people would consider a normal drinker, just having a glass of Chardonnay at the end of an evening to wind down. But I decided to take a break from that. And then the through that process, I was reintroduced to the Enneagram. And then I could totally see that I was using alcohol. And once I realized that I was a type nine, the other thing that I realized was that nines have this natural ability to self-narcotize. So I was compounding my own tendencies. Like I didn't need to be doing that. It was like kryptonite for me, where other people might be able to have, because they would probably look at my level of drinking and going, that's not a problem. But for me, it was. So if any other nines are listening to this, and you even have what is a mild, you know, use of alcohol, social drinking, a little bit to take the edge off. What nines don't realize is that we're we already have that as sort of our superpower. And if we're not careful, it can really um do the opposite for us. And so, and we already struggle with energy levels, well, physical energy. We are tremendous. That's another kind of misnomer. And feel free to interrupt me anytime. No, this is great. Energy level of nines. That was another one of those telltale signs when I was engaging with the with the Enneagram. I was like, oh, yeah, my energy is totally matches a nine. Sometimes I would love to be a seven. I have a lot of seven-ish tendencies. I'm in that positive triad. So, but definitely my energy just gets spent constantly scanning the environment of seeing what's needed for harmony, for peace. So a lot of our energy is spent mentally and emotionally, and even in resisting the doing and the not doing, and just holding things still and steady.

unknown 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

And sometimes we can get real busy doing dumb stuff that we shouldn't be, or not necessarily dumb stuff, but stuff that we we avoid or might procrastinate on the thing that needs to be done. And you can find us over here doing lots of other busy work.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Right. The busy work, yes, yes. So you so you took a break from real estate, and then you now are um in the coaching world, correct?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

I am. So in that process of putting down the wine and getting healthy, I joined a few different online communities and um just really engaged with the world of self-help. And for years I had been listening to a lot of podcasts and you know, that kind of thing. But once I was actually involved in groups, I was getting a lot of uh reach outs for, hey, can you help me? Or wow, you really have a lot of insight. And so I realized I had a lot of encouragement then to maybe even take a look at coaching. And the real estate world is actually really coach-friendly and has been for a long time in the entrepreneurs in general, because that's a lonely road. And so you need a lot of coaching sometimes to help you stay on the path and not get sucked down by self-doubt and all the challenges of running your own business and just the special demands on real estate. So I um did become a coach in the sober community, and then I went to school and got my health and life coaching certification. And I do have my own program now that I call own it. And I think that's actually a lot of what um the Enneagram helps you do is look in the mirror. It holds a mirror up to you and uh doesn't let you get away with some stuff. So, and so yeah, that is so I use it a lot in my personal coaching and then even coaching, whether it's real estate agents or just people that want to take a break from alcohol or change another healthy habit. Um, so I do start with that practical approach of habit change a lot of times for that start. And if people are open to the Enneagram, I wouldn't call myself specifically an Enneagram coach, but if people are open to it, then we're we're gonna use it because I I think it's like Google Translator. We can shortcut a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about how you use it with your clients or if you do. Um, and just yeah, the kind of the benefits of understanding that. But Google Translator is a great analogy for that. Um, I'm curious, I want to go back to the energy level point that you made because I know that is a stereotype. Um, and also something that I hear about other nines' real life experiences, about kind of that sloth passion, um, the napping, the low energy, which is absolutely, to your point, a myth that all nines like to nap because some are very busy. It just may not always be on the on the right thing. So as a life coach, health coach, still doing real estate, and then just being, you know, a partner, a mother, uh just a human being, there's a lot going on. Um, how do you manage kind of you know that that energy level um and and being productive so that you're working on the right things? Are there any tips that you could share for fellow nines?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Oh gosh, yes. Well, outside of what I just talked about, even with the alcohol, even if you're a light or normal use out there, I would say evaluate that if that's a regular part of your life. Um and sleep. Sleep is so important. But you know, that's part of one of the side effects of alcohol, is it robs you of regular sleep, even if you're only drinking a couple on the weekends. So the impact that that can have. But honoring, you know, part of what the Enneagram really, and I'm married to a type one, and I have his permission to talk about this, but he's a literally, we are the yin and the yang. He's a one with a nine wing, and I'm a nine with a one wing. And but I was doing what a lot of nines do, where we kind of will try to merge to keep peace. So I was trying to live life as a one and constantly even beating myself up for not being able to do things the way that he would do things, or keep the house the way that he might want, you know, like everything, you know. So the Enneagram is beautiful because it gives you permission, I think, to, or it gave me permission to get out of that comparison game. Like God designed us all so differently. And then to be able to even see, oh wow, he he doesn't even see the world the way I do, or neither does my sister over here. We have a really fun family. There's three of us, and I have a seven sister with an eight-wing, and then a four sister. So we cover the whole, you know, between the three of us. And it's interesting to see that dynamic play and probably how that developed. But the energy, just being able to give myself permission just to be me, it was like I could just relax and breathe, and that I wasn't alone. Like there's a huge, like nines are a pretty common number. And um just to know that I wasn't alone, there was nothing wrong with me, I just used energy differently. So to even see that, um, and I'll give myself, start giving myself permission to do things in my way, and that there wasn't, it wasn't a wrong way. Um, it was just a, and then as I even engage with it further and learned about the wings, and then I am also, I have a lot of that eight energy available to me. So learning how, so the Enneagram is such a beautiful growth tool when you engage with it. And I I one of the language I use, it turned my stumbling blocks into stepping stones. And so things that I used to see that would that can, or when still, you know, I'm still learning about myself. But as those stumbling blocks make themselves uh apparent to me, it's like, oh, okay, there's another area for growth. How can we, how can I work with this now and even see it as a red flag to know when that I'm going to stress, when my energy does dip low. And I was like looking back, I was taking the naps. Like when my kids were little, when they were napping, I was napping. And then and then doing that quick cleanup before the sweet husband got home. Yeah, yeah. So I definitely have lived in that slothful space. Um, but now I rarely take naps. Um, and I know how to manage my energy better by even taking small breaks and just letting myself move at a pace that feels comfortable to me without being hard on myself. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, it does. It does. And uh there's a book, I don't know if you've heard of it. It's called Rest is Resistance. Have you heard of it? Um I think that was very nines would appreciate it as well as probably all of us can can gain something from it. But um, it's yeah, just kind of about, you know, a lot of times we'll rest and companies like and put in like nap pods, but there's always a so that you can be more productive, catch up on sleep so that you can get more done. And it and her whole premise, the author's premise is um, well, you could you're allowed to rest, just to rest. Like you don't have to do it for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Well, yes, and actually, I learned a term just the other day. There's actually a scientific term out there, and I don't know why it's not more widely known, but called oltradian rhythms. So just like we have a circadian rhythm, there's even a daily rhythm, which is why a lot of people do have sort of that mid-morning slump, the mid-afternoon. We all sort of know about these common type times during the day, and we might all experience them differently. But Western culture, um, you know, it's like suck it up, buttercup, you just power through. It's all about strength. And so that, you know, living in a three country, um, being a nine, you feel like something's wrong with you. And so it's that constant, and we don't have quite the inner critic the way that one would. I think we have an inner gaslighter that's always like, should be, you know, like, why aren't you doing this better? Or you don't really think that we're always talking ourselves out of our feelings, which is why what we need to do in order to find the harmony or what we think, you know, our ego or shadow self might be telling us.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah. Oh my gosh, inner gaslighter. I love that. Um, you know, I think sometimes too, it's maybe not as common, but but people will also sometimes struggle between the seven and the nine, I think because of the optimism and kind of going with the flow and pretty, you know. And one of the things that um you had mentioned around uh alcohol and and taking a break, um, I also did that a few years ago, and I did it um similar for similar reasons, but I noticed like anytime something uncomfortable or like I was bored or um anxious, which I know is a lot a lot of people, but especially for us sevens and nines, we have a tendency to avoid uncomfortable feelings and conflict. And and so it's like, okay, like you were saying, kind of fall asleep to whatever's going on to yourself, to those feelings, and just kind of ignore them. So I I feel that too. Um, as a nine and just as your personal experience, um living living the nine life, what what do you think is so um feels kind of hard about navigating conflict or or like facing it?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Oh man, um this is one area that I've really grown in intentionally and um leaned into and and practice a lot now. Um, but I would avoid that at any cost. But what I what the Enneagram helped me to see was that um, and a lot of wisdom teachings teach the same thing in their own way, which is anything that you're doing to avoid the short term, and that's like the lower self or the shadow or the lower levels of the nine, it's a short-term strategy. It's like avoid this at all costs now. But when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture, you realize there's no such thing as avoiding conflict. You're just making a trade-off for this here and now, but really it grows. It's like a snowball or an avalanche. When you delay that, you're you're just making it bigger. And then you're gonna have to face it sooner or later. So the nine sort of has that the falling asleep is so true, or to stick your head in the sand, that willful blindness and that rosy colored. Oh man, I was just talking about that with my husband this morning. It's like, boy, talk about it. There was willful blindness going on for a long time there. Like, no, there's no problems, nothing can be a problem. Like, and our parenting styles, that's when it was really when the kids were young, and he was the disciplinarian, and I was always swooping in the save and rescue. And and he would even try to tell me that at the time, but of course, I couldn't, I couldn't see it. I just couldn't see it. I was blind to it. And then when the Enneagram came along, it was like, oh, uh, sorry about that. And I could really see how I was, I was the problem in a lot of those times. Not that he wasn't, you know, there was always usually a happy medium between the two extremes. But yeah, even coming in and disciplining the kids felt violent to me. I don't, I would almost say like it, it was visceral. It was like my breath would be taken away. And it was probably my own childhood traumas being triggered, and you know, our family dysfunctions that would come in, you know, the ghosts of all of that, and um take it very personally. So there were a lot of eggshells that got created in our household in our marriage. And luckily, I really do feel like the Enneagram is, you know, what we needed at the time. And still, like it helps me all the time with parenting. And um our family has totally changed because of the Enneagram, and not because any everybody else in the family also got Enneagram crazy. It was just me doing my own inner work and being willing to see my behavior and the shadow side of even some of these really sweet, nice behaviors that get a lot of praise out in the world. You know, it's a lot of you know, praise for being the nice one and the one who's always helping and doing all of that, but the shadow side of all that. Behavior and the and even the motivations that drive it um can be very toxic. I was a I'm a classic codependent in recovery. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yes. I think um there was somebody else that I have an interview with that was recommending the book Codependency in Me. Have you heard of that one? Okay. Um, so I have reserved it on my library app. We'll have to check that one out. But yes, um, so yeah, something a lot of us.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Anything with boundaries and codependency, um, probably nines and twos, especially.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah, I could see that. Yes, I can absolutely see that. Well, and what's interesting is um at some of the events where we have time to do uh we'll do type-specific breakouts. And one of the questions for the nine is what do you consider conflict? Kind of like what you were saying with your husband and just your different parenting styles, what maybe seemed like a you know, a best practice parenting thing maybe felt like violent to you. Are there other things that come to mind that you um consider like, you know, maybe high tension or conflict that you know other people may just seem as like common, common things?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, the so the Enneagram has oh gosh, it's such a helpful tool for this. And now when I and I and even being in these different online communities and in a career like real estate where I get to meet a broad the broad spectrum of personalities, and where I used to just automatically say, What is wrong with you? Like, because I saw things just like you use with your analogy with your own glasses. I was seeing everything through my lenses. And so that helps me now to not take things personally. Um and also even I lean into conflict now. It's like, let's knit this in the bud because I remember, you know, I I know now that if I don't, I'm creating a bigger problem for myself to deal with later. And I'm I'm kind of done with that. Like I don't, I don't have time for that. Um now I don't always do that well because sometimes I'm just not always aware enough to see, you know, I'm human, so there's still a lot of stuff in there. As much as I've been willing to see that, you know, I'm just not there to those levels yet. But I really do try to have those difficult conversations now. And I take a deep breath. I feel, you know, so I'm not denying those feelings because it is, and I'll even acknowledge it with the person. Um if they're if they're familiar with the Enneagram, um, and if they know me well, they're probably at least familiar, at least familiar with it, because I talk about it a lot. But I might use that, or I might just acknowledge the elephant in the room. Like, I don't like having these conversations, but I feel like we need to have it. This is gonna be hard, it's gonna be hard for me, you know, but let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah, yeah. Um I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Just like with anything, the more you practice something and you give yourself those experiences, yeah, it just gets a little easier each time. But so I just try to remind myself of this. That usually with my ego and my strategies are trying to tell myself as the the nine is just not true. And even if it is, we can handle it.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yeah, I love that. And you know, I think that's a great um like a great strategy or just way to kind of approach difficult situations, regardless of your type, is just addressing it because I think it it's like, well, this shouldn't be this hard, or I need to have this conversation, like why do I feel this way, or why is this so hard? And just saying, like, this is hard for me, and then kind of getting into it. And or um, one thing that I have taken from um a friend of mine and and have started using it myself and then share it with others is like this this term, it makes sense, and it's not an excuse, but it's a way I think, like you've been talking about to kind of give yourself like grace and and nothing's wrong with you. It's like people with this type of personality maybe struggle having difficult conversations. This makes sense why I'm feeling this way, um, based on that. Um, I'm curious, is there it sounds like uh, you know, you've done a lot of your own work, um, processed a lot of things, really have grown a lot as a human. Um, and I'm curious for those of us who maybe in it, regardless if you're a type nine or another type, who still find it difficult to have those conversations or face those fears, whatever it might be, what do you feel like if you if you have a personal example, please share. But what do you feel like is a consequence of avoiding that kind of looking through the rose colored glasses regularly? What might we missing out on?

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Oh man, that's a really good and deep question. Um so, and I'll just give you a funny example. And actually, I've turned it into a tool that I use in my practice because most people of my age, some of the younger ones might not have heard of this, but the there's a TV show called Seinfeld. You know, most of us are familiar with it. And George Costanza in that one is um, you know, usually nothing's going his way, you know, he's always grumpy, can't get always having problems in his life. Well, there was one episode um where he decided to do everything the opposite, and all of a sudden everything was going his way. And to me, that's kind of what the Enneagram is showing us. In order to get above the line and start living into your virtue, because in the Enneagram language, we focus a lot on the shadow work and the lower self, but there's a whole other part of it and who you truly are. And for the nine, it's right action or holy love, depending on if you look at the spiritual version of it. But when you can see your mind doing what it is and this ego and the strategies that it's come up with to get you to where you are, but now it's like, okay, this helped me. Thank you, self, for doing all of this. But we're gonna do things a little bit differently now. So I call this even opposite Georging, just because most people, you know, in at least in my age group, have seen the show, are familiar with it, even if they haven't seen that episode, they can understand it quickly. So it's like opposite George yourself or opposite, you know. So that's what I really try to remind myself, even when my monkey mind or ego starts freaking out and wanting me to um take the nap, avoid doing things, avoiding the hard conversation, like, okay, this worked, thank you. This worked for us up till now, but now in order to get to this nevel next level and to keep growing, we've got to keep leaning into and doing the literally, you know, and simply just do the opposite of what you've done. Um, for a seven, that's probably, you know, maybe not going to as many places, you know, calming yourself down with um, you know, the experiences and you know, going out to find the the entertaining solutions to distract. And the nines can do the same thing too. So it's learning how to um lean into the possibility of who I can be, and knowing that it's gonna be an uncomfortable journey. Like I embrace discomfort now versus especially for a nine, if you can do that, because we're known as the comfort seekers, but and not that I and I don't do it everywhere in all the ways. I kind of part of what I do and what I even help with my clients and and coaching strategy is to really focus on one area at a time and also start small. If you're listening to this and you're like, wow, I want to go do that. And uh well, it started with even going back to the beginning about the restaurant decisions, asking for help. You know, I would ask my husband, okay, give me a couple of choices. Don't just ask me where I want to go. And then, but maybe help me by offering a couple of choices and then honoring it, what it is, which restaurant it is that I want to do, go to. Because that can also just starting where you are and starting to make decisions or whatever the thing is that's hard for you, if you're six, learning to trust yourself, or you know, um, we all have our challenges, and the Enneagram just helps you understand your own motivations and understand that everybody, if you can sort of remain in that place of not getting sucked into the personal um drama of the moment, everybody's doing something for a reason.

unknown 31:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

And it's not just because they don't know what they're doing, you know, it took a whole lifetime to get there and motivations of their family, what they've learned, cultures, beliefs. Um so giving grace to yourself and grace to a lot of other people, and then conversations are just conversations. They don't have to be, you know, that um that big of a deal. And the other thing that the Enneagram has really, really helped me with, and I think in particular for those of us that might identify as sort of the people pleasers and the nice, the nice ones, is that a lot of that behavior is not really so nice. Um it's really kind of self-serving, it's very ego satisfying, and that's hard to look at that. Um, but it there was that was really helpful though, to really see that my um, you know, that everything I was doing, even though it felt very nice, it wasn't very nice.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah. Yeah, we'll talk a lot about that with not a lot, but we'll talk about that with twos. You know, why do you want to help it? That's interesting. And you're and you're right, just again, regardless of the type, that people please or energy, um, just understanding where it's coming from. Um uh you had shared uh one thing that your husband can help you do to make better decisions or not make better decisions, to get in touch with your opinion. And um is there anything else? Because I know this is one of those kind of core things that a lot of nines will struggle with, is not even that they don't want to speak up because they're afraid to rock the boat with their opinion. It's at some point they do uh many can tend to lose touch with what they do believe. And so it's like, I truly don't know. Um, is there anything else that you would add to either somebody who could support a nine better or as a nine, how we could get more in touch with our own thoughts and opinions?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Oh, that's such a that's a really good question. Um and asking for support from your loved ones is definitely a good way to start. And even with smaller things like that are sort of inconsequential, the you know, the dinner decisions, television watching, movies, where you're gonna go, how do you like to spend your time? Um, but I have really um gone deep with meditation. My morning routine is like it's always been important to me, but the mornings, um, especially the last few years, I've really used it more intentionally to um learn about myself and journal a lot. So if you're not a journaler, that's okay. Maybe grab a guided journal. There's even some good Enneagram journals out there, start listening to Enneagram podcasts, um, like like yours is such an awesome one. And um, but there's a a lot of good resources out there. Um, but really start to um pay attention to and document and journal and pay attention, but that aside morning time when you're fresh, when you've been able to sleep on it. Um, if you notice some things in your life where you're just like some weird energy is coming up, is there tension? A lot of times, nines we feel kind of stuck or asleep, like there's a lot of like held energy. I don't, you know, our way of doing is not doing. So is there something that you're putting off? Like dig into that and see what that's about. Um, so I like the the practice of journaling and meditation. And even if you need to start off with a guided meditation, but really start the other thing that I that has really helped me is really paying attention when resentment pops up or frustration or some of those feelings. And I can't, especially if I can't quite put my finger on it. There's that's an invitation to go, okay, there's some gold here. Like what's going on here? What and maybe even you know, really doing a timeline because sometimes we might not notice this for like a week, you know, or it can be later, and you're like, but there's this underlying sense of something just not being right, or because nines are also just to throw in another aspect of the Enneagram, is you know, our we're on the withdrawn, you know, stance. So when you notice yourself withdrawing, we can tend to give the cold shoulder, be a little stubborn, you know, like any of those red flags that start to pop up, or you mentioned, you know, we're on the line of six of stress with the six. So if you start noticing a lot of fear, what if, like catastrophizing, any of those things, to me, stress or any of those more negative feelings are really the that's there's such wisdom in that because that's just your desires and your ambitions wearing different clothes or a mask. Um, so setting aside time um to even sit with yourself, like when, and then even comparing that, like when things are going well and you're feeling good and productive, like what's different? Compare and contrast what's going on there. Like, what are you doing? And one example for me, and because this is what you asked me for a specific example. Um, I, merging with my husband, was always waiting for him to make decisions or doing things. I was always making myself available even on the weekends. And he had uh for years, he had a standing basketball game on Saturday mornings, and uh, which is fine. That's great for him to do. Like he knows what he wants, he has no problem doing it. But there was a lot of underlying resentment that I wasn't acknowledging about that because there were some things that I wanted to be doing, but I wasn't, and I was using that as an excuse. I love to get out and explore, go to farmers markets, you know, doing all these things. But I was like, well, but I don't have anybody to go with, and or he's not, he never is available, so we can't ever do that. And then with the Enneagram and doing all this inner work, I was like, well, girl, you can go, like, just start going. So I made a very intentional um, you know, date with myself on the weekends that I was gonna just start going places, even if it was by myself, if anybody wanted to go, great, or for my kids. Like I didn't make it about, I was making it all about the kids, their activities, and him. And so I started giving myself permission, like, but it it was through, you know, it was like the back door through those resentments. And then I started sitting with myself of with those complaints that I was having and the excuse and the blame. So if you've got any of that victim stuff going on, like look at that and you know, own it and then do something about it. And now, guess who really loves to go exploring too? And sometimes doesn't do those basketball games anymore. Um, but it and now, and it's a genuine, he's not doing it to please me, like he enjoys doing it now is something we enjoy doing together. But as soon as I took ownership of that and honored myself and what I liked doing, and just started making those dates with myself, and then my whole life just started changing. And then all my other days, because I was starting to um do some things like that that for me were self-care. Now I see so self-care, healthy boundaries, all the things. But um, yeah, if there's something that you've you've been wanting to do that you're not doing, or that something that you like doing, but for whatever reason you aren't, maybe start there too.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah, just start. Yeah, start, start there. And like you said, kind of get curious and question. It's like, oh, this feeling, what what's behind this? So I love that. I think that's a great tip for all types. Um, I'm gonna have one, I have lots more questions, but I'm gonna keep it down to one more question about the type nine energy before we start to wrap it up. Um you we talked about the stress arrow to the type six, where they can they normally kind of go with the flow and can be really uh not so good with the flow, flow, need a plan and all that. So we have that, and there's also there's also growth within that arrow. Um, the other arrow um is the type three for the nine. And we'll talk about that one as being sometimes the neglected arrow or or the growth arrow because threes are striving to feel outstanding. And for a nine who has that withdrawn energy, just kind of wants to kind of be behind the scenes, kind of go with the flow, don't rock the boat there. Um, that that three energy can be like, oh no, I don't, I don't want that. However, there's so much growth within there. So I'm curious, again, you can use your own experience or just kind of what you've seen among the nine community, but how do you see nines holding themselves back from being as powerful and maybe even as successful as they are capable of because sometimes they're they're neglecting some of that kind of outstanding energy?

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Yeah. Um, well, I know the feelings and the words that come up for me when I start thinking about um that three energy in particular, because I experience a lot of that now, but still what comes up for me and what I struggle with is oh, but if that happens, what's going to be demanded of me? You know, there's that fear that it's gonna be too much. And and and for me in particular, that's even going back to some of my real estate days or my busy real estate days where I was trying to be everything to everybody at all times. And, you know, this whole notion of wanting to be available all the time to anybody and for for what anybody else needed, versus going into where you can still be of service and doing things without and trying to let go a little bit of, you know, because we're also past-oriented, we're withdrawn and we're past oriented. So it's like that PTSD, I think, might be a good word that a lot of nines might, or a feeling that some nines might identify with when things have been too much, and then we go to six, and then it's like, ah, freak out, cat catastrophizing mode. And that's a scary place to be. And so we're almost afraid that if we go over here to three, that it'll end up back down here. So it's like this constant like, so, but in my experience, experience as I lean into that and I even just breathe through it, like you know, doing some nervous system practices, like just breathe. Just okay, you don't know what's going to happen. Even the opposite George, it's probably and just, you know, you can and and one decision doesn't have to be permanent too. That's another thing I think where I lean into go trying to move from the one to over to my eight wing is like, okay, what if we let go of the right and the wrong and things having to be perfect and lean into like okay if it doesn't work out, that's okay. We can just pivot and do something new or we can get out of it. It's not a permanent and I think that's what in me being and I'm also a social nine so I'm like a little bit different than some nines but um being between that perfect energy and that fearful where leaning into my eight really helps me maybe go into the land of three a little bit more. And just pace myself too. So just remembering like that holistic approach that those wings and arrows and really engaging with the Enneagram and as a spiritual growth tool as well and just practicing a lot of deep self-care and honoring how you know I'm made and how other people are made and giving myself plenty of time. There's the perfectionistic and the sick that energy that wants it to be all right now. And where I try to like really pace myself and give myself and that's a lot of my coaching practice too where I um for those of us that aren't as fast paced and like you know all of that tons of physical energy um learning how to access it more by going slower. Like for me I still have some weight you know I've still got a whole journey you know I'm only like halfway to sort of where I want to be and I made it I made a deal with myself a few years ago it's okay if it takes you five years. It's okay if it takes you 10 years as long as when you get there, like the changes that I'm making are at such a deep level they're at such a fundamental like identity level that I'm it's not going to be a struggle anymore. Like I'm just going to make that change and it's just going to be who I am where I think a lot of people are stuck on the hamster wheel of 30 day challenges and oh yeah do it quick and the whole versus but this way is not the fun way which is why a lot of people don't do it. But I do think this is the more rewarding way and to really change at a at a deep level and I think that's what the Enneagram helps show you is so I keep reaching towards that virtue of right action. Like if that's got who God says I really am and that I have that potential in me and it's all this other stuff that my ego and lower self and shadow self whatever language you want to use that is trying to keep me down here like that doesn't work. So just always going back to sort of some more objective truths and not listening to my mind freak out. Like just let it freak out. It's okay. It's trying to help me like seeing that inner part of me and all of that as my friend that's really tried to trying to help me and serve me. But I have my higher self that's woken up now and she's going to be in charge and she's taking over slowly but surely and then that lower part of me will still freak out but it's sort of learning to trust the higher self a little bit more like that trust is developing.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah and like you said it's a it's a process it takes time and sometimes we want like those overnight results but I love it's like well this might take five years. But when everybody else is saying oh overnight or four weeks or six week or whatever it's hard to kind of get out of that for anybody who is interesting and interested in maybe getting some you know life coach uh life coaching health coaching maybe interested in uh stopping drinking I know that that's something you also help with um where is a good place to connect with you and learn more about how someone might work with you oh thank you for offering that up well I'm a fairly new coach so I'm still getting some of those things in place you can always reach out to me um I have a Facebook profile Felicia BishopHolmes um ownitcoach at gmail dot com or if you can remember all of this it's ownit for good at coachesconsole or dot coachesconsole dot com is my like coaching platform where I have my courses and where you could book a free call with me.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

But yeah if anybody is wanting especially you nines and twos and fellow codependents are overwhelmed, exhausted scattered if any of those words resonate with you um life doesn't have to be that way you can get out of the overwhelm and get back in the driver's seat and life is just amazing now. I am so excited I hit the ground my feet hit the ground every morning and it's like life is an adventure so and the Enneagram was a big part of my mindset switch.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

What a great way to wrap this up shout out to the Enneagram and self-awareness and and even others awareness. So we'll put all those links in the show notes as usual. I do think people will appreciate your approach because I think there's a a lot of kind of that that like go go fast get there fast. And for some like you're saying that's just not going to work or it's just it's going to be exhausting. So I think a lot of people are going to resonate with what you shared and how you helped. So um I've been I've learned so much myself and I know whether you're a type nine or or have a nine in your life and listening to this you did as well. So definitely get connected with Felicia. Let her know that you listened to this and let her know what you're taking away. And with that Felicia I appreciate you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

All right thank you Sarah it was a lot of fun and thank you for what you're doing to bring bringing the Enneagram even to the business world it's applicable everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

It is yeah we can all understand that people aren't driving us crazy on purpose it's just it's just how how we are we're just different. So um I appreciate you and I will see you around thank you Felicia when I'm not planning for the next episode or getting to interview the next podcast guest I'm probably out doing an Enneagram team training or a group workshop experience because while Enneagram MBA is a podcast it is also a team training company which means whether you have a team of four or 40 or are planning an event for 400 people there is an experience that is waiting to be created just for you and your team or organization or event and I'm going to invite you to start that process over at enneagrammba.com where you'll be able to check out some of the initial ideas and options and then reach out to get in touch to start planning your own.