SPEAKER_01 0:00

When I'm working with clients or workshop attendees and we're starting the Enneagram typing process, for those that land on a type three, sometimes, of course, you just you know that that's your type. Um, for others, I have found that the two most common kind of struggle pairings are the am I a three or am I a seven? And we actually have a special this or that episode in the podcast library, if if that happens to be yours. Um but the other one that that might come up even more is am I a three or am I a one? I want to look good, but I also want to be good. And that might come down to the fact uh that you have this self-preservation flavor to you as a three. So the three motive is still driving the bus, striving to feel outstanding, but you might have some more tendencies and behaviors and some values around uh this self-preservation, which might make you feel or look like a one. And so that might um add to that struggle as you type it down. So, what we're going to do today is hear from an Enneagram in real life, uh self-preservation type three. Vanessa Leguier is joining us today. Vanessa is an author, she's an editor, an indie publisher, and then a diversity reader. And she's going to be sharing how she realized that she was a self-preservation, sharing a little bit of insight into this self-preservation three energy to either help you decide, yes, I'm definitely a three based on what I know about this deeper understanding, or maybe not. Or if you already know that you are a self-preservation three, um, just to give you some additional insight, maybe some validation about how somebody else is also experiencing that. So this is some extra Enneagram content that we get to share this week to piggyback off our regular Tuesday episode that was more general Enneagram three at work. And with this one, it's specific uh for our self-preservation threes or anybody interested in learning a little bit more about that energy. So without further ado, I'll see you inside this episode with Vanessa. You're listening to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm looking forward to diving into this week's episode with you. All right, this is going to be such a fun episode for a lot of reasons. One of them being that my guests today, um, her and I actually connected over on YouTube. And so it's always fun, you know, social media, you know, the internet can get a bad reputation for a lot of things, but it also has introduced me to some incredible people. And um, Vanessa Legier is my guest today. She is joining us as a type three. And the other reason why I'm so excited about this conversation is we're taking it to the next level today and getting into subtypes. So we're going to hear from Vanessa on her experience as an Enneagram type three with that self-preservation instinct. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, that's okay. Hang with me. Uh, but welcome to the show, Vanessa. I'm so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Thanks for having me here today. Um, I'm excited for to talk about the Enneagram.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Well, I am so excited that you um watched the video on Insta or on uh YouTube, and then you just left a really thoughtful, insightful comment. And I thought, oh my gosh, I would just I would love to learn more about her experience. And I know others would find that helpful. So um I'm so glad that that all happened and our paths crossed and we're talking now. Um, okay, so I I am always curious people's Enneagram typing journey. And some people, it's very evident right away, and for others, it takes a while. And I just think that um, if you're still in that process of trying to sort it out, um, hearing other people's stories can be really helpful. So I'm curious um of your own Enneagram journey, how did you realize that the type three was your dominant Enneagram type?

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Um well, it took me a while to figure out that I was type three, um, because I a lot of my behaviors and actions are very much aligned with the thought with the type ones. And so for a long time, I thought I might have been a one. And I kept going back and forth on am I three or am I one? Am I one? Am I three? So um with the threes, um with the which we'll get into as well, but with the self-preservation type three, that's the counter type. So we actually don't look like the typical threes that you would think of. And so that's what confused me before I learned about the subtypes, because I was like, I don't resonate with the typical stuff that they're saying about a three, but when they talk about the core fears of a three, and that's how you determine your Enneagram type is the core fears. I was like, my core fears are three, not a one, but I look so much like a one.

unknown 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Um, and then I learned about the subtypes and how self-preservation is a counter type. And so we actually look a lot like ones and sometimes maybe sixes or eights.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yes, yes. And each type, um, I know that you know this, Vanessa, but for listeners who maybe some of this is new, each type um has three flavors of their type. So three flavors of a three in this case, and those flavors are called instincts. And then when you overlap it with the type, you get that subtype. And each one within each type, there is kind of that that type that doesn't look like the typical type, and that's called the counter type, which is what Vanessa is referring to. And a lot of self-preservation threes can get mistyped in the beginning as a one, a six, um, you said an eight, some maybe even a five in there. We'll talk about why. Um, just for anybody else who's maybe like, oh, I don't know, I'm going back and forth. How long did that take you?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

I don't remember because I wasn't like when I was looking into the Indiegam and reading about it, it wasn't a consistent thing. Um, it was mostly uh on my downtime whenever I had a chance. Um, I would see videos here and there on YouTube, or um, I'll see a book that I'll pick up and read on it. And so I don't remember how long exactly it took me from when I first learned about the Enneagram and started looking into it to when I figured out my type.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Okay, yeah, I was just curious because sometimes it does take a while and it is a process, and you know, like you have a whole life that you're you're living, and it's not just like finding your Enneagram type, um, but whenever you can just continuing to learn and self-reflect. Um, I also loved what you said about how it for you, you really focused on the core fear and the core motive. And for the type three who's striving to feel successful and outstanding, it's that fear of failure, feel of not having that successful image, um, striving to be seen as successful. Um, how have you seen that energy kind of show up in your life or or uh you know in the in the work that you have pursued? Um, I would just love to hear a little bit about how that has shown up for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Um yeah, it's uh it's interesting and kind of funny because I was actually talking to my mom this morning about the NACOM types and um telling her about my type three um because I I was reading through last night the guide that you sent. Um and I was reading the type three guide and looking through it and I was like, oh, this is spot on, this is me, this is totally me. And so I was telling her about it this morning. Um but just the I think for me with the whole wanting success or to be seen as a success and stuff to a certain degree, I kind of want that from like want to be seen as successful from um you know general uh population society, but I think I'm more the motivation for me is more so connected to my family and my parents and want and striving for them to see me as successful um and for them to acknowledge that what great insight.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Um and you know, that was really interesting what you said about looking good for your family versus you know needing to be in the spotlight and and looking good for others. Um, one of the notes that I wrote for today was that a type three, um, a self-preservation three may seem like a perfectionist because they want others to appreciate their work more so than there's a standard and I need to do it right for that standard or whatever that rule, but it it so it's a little it's it's similar, which is why maybe that one and three get confused, and it sounds like you had that as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Definitely the I think um when I was filling out the um, but yeah, I do have that, you know, hard time of letting go. Like, okay, I'll give you perfect example because happened yesterday one day. Um working on a project of mine. Um I was designing these worksheets reports in Canva and um it kept driving me crazy because I couldn't I was trying to insert chart or graph comparison graph. Oh, like a table? Yeah, table. Um it's like another word. Um but yes, table. And uh I was trying to do like the lines, but it kept looking slanted for some reason. It didn't look straight. And I kept I spent way too long, spent way too long just redoing, tweaking things, and like every time I think, okay, I think it looks okay now, and then I noticed something else, and I'm like, no, now I need to fix this. So um I spent several hours on that yesterday, more time than I should have, just trying to make things look aligned and look perfect.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

It sounds like that is a common theme among our self-preservation threes. Um, and why again that mistyping of a one can come into play because it's it's the behavior that you might expect from a one. But again, it's that core motive, what's driving that. Um, something else that I had down, and if you have thoughts, I'd love to hear them. But if not, that's okay too. But one of the other things about um self-preser self-preservation threes that I've talked about and read about before is that um sometimes they can struggle as a team player. And sometimes threes can in that average level of health, all threes can. But for the self-preservation threes, it's not so much because they want the spotlight and nobody else on their team can have the spotlight because they want it, but it's because it feels like others actually slow them down and they want to get things done quickly, and it just feels like oh, these other people can kind of be a drag. So does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Kind of, but not so much because um I think it'll slow me down. Um, because I already kind of work more on the slower side, but I think it's more so because I don't trust that they're going to do things to myself. Okay. So I like I said, I have pretty high standards. And if I think you're not gonna meet them, I'm just gonna do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, yeah. I could see that. I could absolutely see that. Um, I want to take just a quick step back for those who this might be something new. Um, I kind of introduced the subtype. I I just really quickly want to touch on how it overlaps with our type. Um, and I'm gonna give you a second to think, Vanessa, if if you need it. And if you don't know, again, that's okay. Um, but with our instincts, um, they will sometimes um like have say that they there's a specific stacking. So we have our self-preservation or preserving energy that we've been talking about. Um, there is a social or like teaming type of energy. And then there is what um you'll typically hear called in in Neagram books called sexual or one-on-one, or um, in the workplace, I use pioneering energy. Um, I'm gonna come back and ask you in just a second if you happen to know what your stack is, your dominant kind of supporting one, and and if there's a neglected one. Um, but the way that this works with our type is that our our dominant Enneagram type is kind of our preferred strategy for how we go about getting our needs met. And then the um the instinct is kind of that core value. So we have like the core value, and then we have our strategy for how to get there. So, as an example, as a type seven, I identify as a type seven, um, I'm striving to feel excited. That's my strategy, but I will use that to get to this instinct for me that's a social instinct. And so comparing that to like a type social, uh type six who is a social, they're striving to feel secure. So a social six will look for that security in the group, whereas like a seven, I might look for that excitement in a group, if that makes sense. So that's kind of kind of subtypes, um, instincts 101. And then specifically for our preserving energy, we're gonna come back and look at behavior clues. But I I want to come back to you, uh Vanessa, on that stacking. Is there one um type of instinct that you notice is kind of the most neglected or it's like at the bottom there?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, um, the teeming social one is the one that's kind of my bottom. Okay. Um so after self-preservation, my next one is uh the sexual one-on-one. I think I have some qualities of the sexual three as well. I always like to uh cheer others on. Um, I think that's part of the you know, wanting to be seen as uh um helpful and good, and so I uh always try well go above and beyond to try to help um whenever I can.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, yeah. Well, I will add that video to the show notes here so other threes or people who are maybe deciding between one and three can also get some of that information too and hopefully um add some additional clarity along their typing journey. Um our self-preservation type threes. And um, are you familiar with the Art of Growth podcast? No. Um, I I really like them. They started off as I think it was called like the Enneagram Panels podcast, um, and they changed their name a few years back, but they do a lot of this type of interviewing um with, you know, all different kinds of people to hear about how the different types show up. And um, I I enjoy listening to them, learning from them. But what I'm about to share is how they describe the types. There's no shortage of books and articles uh talking about the different subtypes and explaining them. Um, but I really like the way they talk about them. So just kind of audibly citing my sources there, these um key points came from uh the Art of Growth team. And they describe the self-preservation, like how would you know if you are a self-preservation instinct? Um, and they said there's a couple of behavior clues. Things like a fully stocked toolbox or a pantry medicine cabinet. We're gonna talk about why this is true in just a second, but saving money or creating a budget, um, keeping family traditions alive. Um, they're more into hobbies that are related to the home because home and family are very important to them. Um, they might you might find them um quickly scheduling a doctor's appointment when something's off, very hyper-aware of potential illnesses. Now, what I have heard from other threes, though, who tend to be very um workaholic and kind of self-forgetting because they feel like they need to be productive, um, they have this belief that you need to be doing and productive all the time, even if you're sick, even if you're tired. So sometimes self-preservation threes don't always relate to that one. But I'm curious, out of the this behavior list, um, are there anything, are there things that jump out to you as being like relevant in your own life that you see yourself doing?

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I like a lot of the home decorating and organizing stuff. And at one point I was even um I had thought about wanting to do some type of like uh home organization slash interior design. Um business uh career. Um so that was one of the uh one of the things that I thought about because I have fun doing that.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Okay, that is yeah, that's interesting just to hear kind of how that has shown up for you personally. Um some of the priorities of this preserving energy is that we talked about focused on well-being. You're kind of tuned into what your body needs, um, giving yourself a healthy balance of activity and movement and rest, and um, maybe even, you know, on the cutting edge of self-care practices and vitamins and whatever that might look like. Um, maintenance is another category where you're focused on fixing, improving what needs to be done to keep your security and well-being possible. So this might look like what they said as feathering the nest, maintaining traditions and ensuring that repairs get made. And then the last one um is called security. And um they actually have nicknamed they, the Enneagram people, um, have nicknamed the self-preservation three as security. And they say they will keep themselves, their loved ones, and their resources safe. And this might look like safe and supportive relationships, maybe avoiding risk. Um, and I think some of this energy is why it's that countertype to the typical three or that stereotypical version of a three you might see. Um, are there any Categories that really hit home with you from this list.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Can you repeat what the security one was as well?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah, it says um that they'll keep themselves or their loved ones um and resources um safe. And so this might be safety in supportive relationships or risk avoiding avoiding risk. And I think for the threes, too, this this kind of manifests itself in working hard, not so you can, you know, buy a new luxury car or you know a million-dollar home, but instead working hard so that you know you are going to be taken care of um monetarily resource-wise.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, and that sense I I would say yeah, I do relate to that. Um because a lot of what I do, um anything I do um is to have that stable security, financial security. My working hard hamster wheel.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

You know, um that that is really insightful too. It's um and I I think that that energy um I think is sometimes too what might confuse some sixes um or threes thinking, am I a six or am I a three? Um and it turns out you're just maybe a self-preservation three, but that security is is really important to you. Um, so that that is really interesting. The last thing I wanted to ask you about that was um just kind of uh I guess a descriptor for anybody else looking to get a little a little more clarification on am I a self-preservation three or another type, um, is that uh threes have this passion, um, emotional kind of struggle or or vice, sometimes known as um around vanity. And so I know some threes, you know, maybe it maybe it stings a little or maybe it's uncomfortable to admit, but they'll they'll think, yeah, you know, I I do enjoy the spotlight. I'm comfortable, I like the attention, but for the self-preservation, um they don't love that um spotlight uh attention and and they are almost like a one can be more focused on um being virtuous rather than um you know looking like they are focused on their vanity, but in the background, they they kind of are, but they want to look like they're not. So their their behaviors will look a little bit different. Does that ring true for you?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yes, exactly. Um the that was one of the the things um in the video I mentioned earlier when you talked about the self-preservation threes, you said we are the threes that um we have the um the vanity of no vanity. Um and I was like, oh, that's things, but it's true. Yes, it's um it we we still we're a three, so we still want to be in the spotlight and have that attention. We just don't want you to know that we want you to give us that attention, yeah. So we you know we'll try to appear humble and um like yeah, I don't need the spotlight, but really I'm like you can you can still give me attention.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, yeah, I know. I think I think that's interesting, and that might be one of those like really key aha's for for some of our other uh self-preservation theories. Um, well, Vanessa, I really appreciate you jumping on here. I mean, I I know we basically we just met through a comment on YouTube, and so um I know it took a lot of trust and also making time on your schedule to um come on here and open up about your personality and and uh which can be very personal. So thank you for being willing to share. Um, for anybody who is thinking, oh, I'd love to get in touch and just talk about our self-preservation three or have some questions. Um, where is a good place for people to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Well, online, um I go by Vanessa Marie Books on all my platforms. Um I'm a writer and self-publisher. So um you can find all my uh all my stuff at Vanessa Marie Books. Um I'm on YouTube. I have my website is Vanessa Marie Books, and all my social handles are that so okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

We will absolutely connect all of those. And then as we wrap up, I have a couple of rapid fire questions that I'm gonna do my best not to reply to and just allow you to answer. Um and uh the first one is um, and this is very, I think, applicable for our threes, but there's a lot of talk about being successful at work. And this is a podcast for you know helping us understand people at work and um success is one of you know is a is a measurement, you know, of how how well are we doing. But I also think that that success measuring stick is so varied among what's important to us based on our Enneagram type and based on a million other things. So I'm curious for you, what does success look like?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

I was thinking about this a little bit earlier, and I think it kind of goes back to um what I said earlier on about wanting that um different perception or different view from my dad um and my family, and I think success for me would be having them see me as successful.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

And then what is a book that has meant a lot to you or that you might recommend to others that are listening to this and also into personal growth and self-development? The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Okay. Um so I read that one, uh like I said, several years ago, and I really liked it. Um I need to revisit it and see how what I'm sure I've forgotten a lot that's in there. Um but I do remember at the time when I read it, I did recommend that to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

The last question I have, Vanessa, is around what has been um one of your biggest takeaways from learning about the Enneagram or learning about your type specifically?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

The biggest takeaway I've gotten is learning and reflecting on why I why I do things the way I do, why I have um the motivations and uh views that I have, because um and connecting that back to uh messages I got in childhood growing up um and seeing how that played out. Um that was something I told my mom this morning, and I was like, see, be careful what you say to kids. They internalize these things, these messages, and yeah, so um connecting that to my uh type three, I think has been one of the big takeaways for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

I love that. Yeah, it's interesting to know just where where did these things come from? Why why am I the way that I am? Um well Vanessa, like I said, I I really appreciate um just the oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

I forgot. Um there's one more book that I want to mention. I forgot about it. Um it's called Talks Too Much. It's about being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. Okay. So knowing uh your whole life not not knowing you have ADHD and then coming to realize it later in life. Um, and how that it's it's the author's personal journey of how that affected her. Um, and if anyone's interested, I did get to do an interview with the author. So that's on my YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Oh, so fun. Okay, yes, talks too much, a candidate of an adult ADHD diagnosis, the good, the bad, and they caught chaotic. Um well, I I appreciate all that you have shared, Vanessa. I appreciate your time. And uh we'll definitely um as I always say to the to the listeners, um, definitely get connected with Vanessa on whatever channel you prefer and just say hi, let her know what you're taking away, let her know what you learned. Um, and with that, Vanessa, I look forward to staying in touch over on YouTube or Instagram, wherever it might be. Thank you so much for being here. When I'm not planning for the next episode or getting to interview the next podcast guest, I'm probably out doing an Enneagram team training or a group workshop experience. Because while Enneagram MBA is a podcast, it is also a team training company, which means whether you have a team of four or 40 or are planning an event for 400 people, there is an experience that is waiting to be created just for you and your team or organization or event. And I'm gonna invite you to start that process over at EnneagramMBA.com where you'll be able to check out some of the initial ideas and options and then reach out to get in touch to start planning your own.