SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, welcome back to our second extra Enneagram bonus episode that we have had in a row. This bonus content is specifically diving into the type six energy. And obviously, if you happen to be a type six, I think you're going to really appreciate this conversation. Maybe feel really validated just hearing some of the things that they talk about, the guest talks about. And then also maybe even putting some language to some things that you have thought and felt, but just didn't realize how to quite word them. And then if you are not a type six, we do specifically talk about what to know if you are not a six, about that type six person in your life, on your team, what are some myths, what are some misconceptions the rest of the types might get wrong about the type six. And we also talk a little bit about how to be supportive of a six in your life. So this is good for our sixes and for the other eight types as well. And coming back for this bonus content episode is the Enneagram Doctor from our episode on Tuesday. They had shared about Enneagram and addiction using the Enneagram Insight in a recovery process, like the 12-step recovery process, for example. So if you haven't listened to that one and that's a topic of interest, um, definitely go back and check out the episode from earlier this week. Um, but moving forward in this episode, we are specifically looking at um their own experience as a type six and what our other type sixes and the other types can learn uh from their experience and their insight on that type. So thank you for being here, and I'll see you inside. You're listening to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm excited to be diving into this week's episode with you. How did the Enneagram doctor come to be, Leora?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Like four years ago, I was introduced to the Enneagram, and I just got really into it. And then like a seed was planted in me. And um, like I met my partner at the time, and she had website development skills, and it sort of was just this like collision of oh, you have skills that I need right now to like bring this vision to life and to have a space to do this um practitioner work and coaching work with Enneagram. So it was uh just a combination of luck and circumstance and like a vision and a dream.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah. Well, um, well, we're always talking like in our Enneagram circles. It's like you want to do the work, you just want to jump out there and do the coaching or the teaching or the guiding. And it's like, oh, but but I need to build a bridge to get people from where they are to me. And so having somebody who has some website expertise and and some help with that um is a great pairing. So that that's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah, it really worked out. The timing was great on that.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

So I I would I I'd love to know just a little bit more about the way that you teach and practice the Enneagram. This season, we were just talking before we hit record. I've gotten to talk with other Enneagram um teachers and practitioners, and and each person kind of has their own style and take. And I'm just curious, kind of, how you teach or anything unique about the way that you approach the Enneagram?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, yeah. So um the way I approach the Enneagram typically, well, it's really dependent on like how much Enneagram the client has when they come to me already. And so far, both of the like a couple of clients that have come to me have been like in very much beginner mode. So we start at the very beginning, which is like, hey, what is this thing? What is this thing? Um, how can it help you? How how how might you fit into it? And sort of the I like to do like uh we get to type to get out of type kind of conversation. Um, I don't think that the end goal of Enneagram work is getting to type. I think that that's a good starting point and actually a super useful starting point, but um I like to like I like to see or like to nudge people to get through type, right? And to like use the skills of knowing the type to get beyond type, and to I think of the Enneagram as this energy system, and we have all have access to all of the energy points, and the goal of Enneagram work is from my perspective, is to embody the strengths of all those energies and in the in the ways that we're able to. And so I've done the work that I've done so far has been about like helping people see things that they just can't see yet.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yes, I love that. And I know that you also have um ten years in the in the academic education space, um, training and gender and sexuality. Um, so you know, that's also kind of a unique angle. I know that you also identify most as an Enneagram type six, and I'm always curious how you came to that realization as your dominant type currently. Um, what is it about that six striving to feel safe and secure that made you think this is me?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Oh, yeah. It was pretty clear to me right away. I think partly because of the work I had already done in recovery. And you know, like um, when you get into recovery, and we can get into some of this. My my side of recovery is like the Al-Anon space, like friends and family of alcoholics. And um, I'd already spent some time doing step work, right? And like fourth step in step work is this inventory, which is basically you can take that inventory and kind of like then look at Enneagram, and they're very similar. There's some there's pieces of it that are very similar. So when I got to Enneagram, it was because of the particularly the work I had done in the fourth step, which is about looking at me, see like allowing myself to see aspects of me that I hadn't um put a good put put a good look on. And then so when I got to the Enneagram and I started reading I my first Enneagram book was The Road Back to You. I was identifying really well in the sixth space and also in the five space. I think I do have a really strong five wing. And it just took a little um I mean I was I from the beginning I was pretty sure I was a six, but because of the six-ness of doubt, it did take me some time, even just this last season, like it even just this last season. I feel like I've settled into the like settled all the doubts. The doubts have been settled and it's official.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yes, yes. Well, there are a lot of sixes I know that listen to this episode or this podcast, so they're gonna appreciate that. Um, I know there's a lot that that don't identify with the six. Is there anything in your experience that the rest of us sometimes get wrong about the type six um that we should know about?

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Oh, that's interesting. I don't know, like I think um so the ways in which sixes are talked about in generalities, those are not gonna apply to any person wholly, you know, in a full holistic way, because we are so much more than our type and we have cultural contexts and like family upbringing and different kinds of life experiences. So I tend to think that like the biggest misunderstanding for people who are looking at like sixes is to is to try to spend some time going a little deeper than what is on the surface level or the stereotype, because I think it can be really easy to miss yourself in the six due to all those kinds of factors.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, and I know with the sixes they say sometimes that you know you have kind of the widest range of variety because you have that fight or flight, counterphobic, phobic, um, and they can look very different on the outside. I just out of curiosity, uh, which subtype do you identify with? Self-prez. Okay, okay. Um any anything that we should know about kind of with with that, with those subtypes of sixes.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah, well, I think the thing that like the thing for me that was the biggest eye opener around my self-prez sixiness, like I think for the self-pressed six, the um the lens of fear is so it's so forward, it's so front and center that and like fear, fear, the experience of fear, but like it usually for me and for a lot of sixes, it translates into just a whole lot of anxiety. And I think the it's like really hard at when you're in that and like living in that, it's really hard to see there's uh other options. Like I lived a life believing that every single person walked around with those with those fear glasses. Like I thought that that was everybody's experience, and I thought that was human life, like I thought that that was how we do. So I think it takes uh it took a lot of unveiling and some just like really for me, I like to I'm I'm very curious, and I like that's a very much a sixth thing. So I'm very curious and I like to explore different of these different pathways of like how to do life in a more peaceful way. And I was already sort of in that process through recovery, but when I read about the experience of fear and anxiety for a six, it really did. It was like this key moment where my eyes, like my whole perspective on life, shifted.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

You know, um, I'm curious your thoughts on this. If you don't have anything to add or to say, that's okay too. Um, a couple months back, I did this series, uh, I think busting misconceptions of each type. And for the six, I had four um that they're all negative and Debbie Downers, that uh they have difficulty taking action because they're overthinking, um, that fear is a weakness. And then the last one is that if you're anxious, then you must be a six. And I think sometimes um I have seen people will say, Well, yeah, I got a lot of anxiety. So so I'm a six. How do you like what would be your advice if somebody's in the beginning of the typing process and thinking, Oh, yeah, I mean, I am, I do have anxiety. Um, so am I a am I a six or am I another type?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah, that's a that I think so. I think anxiety is universal. Like all people can and experience anxiety to different levels, but I think the thing for the six is the differentiation is that we're afraid of our own fear. So it becomes this loop where it's kind of unique to the six that like the fear cycle, the fear is cycling the fear.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Oh is there anything else that you would add? Um, maybe just in a professional setting or um, I mean, in life too, that the rest of us um should know about being with a six, either supporting them or things that really bother them. Um, just any other additional insight for us non-sixes about life as a six to to better get along with you all.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah, well, for me, like the the thing that relationally makes the most difference for me has to do as a six, has to do with like support. And it's a certain kind of support that really like heals the six. It's like it's like there for you support, but it's not um it's not it's not active usually, it's not like like nobody typically likes unsolicited advice, but like the six and me and me as a six, um like the best way to be in uh in relationship with a six, I think, is to be present and in like a supportive, I'm there for you, uh you make sense, you matter. Um, but like not in the like and I want to fix your problems kind of way.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

That's so interesting. Um, just a follow-up thought slash question, potentially on that, is that one thing um that sometimes we'll talk about with sixes is just kind of this really interesting relationship with authority, and that it's like sometimes sixes can struggle with self-doubt. And so it's kind of like looking outside themselves to find what they should do, but then at the same time, they don't want anybody to tell them what to do. And it sounded like you articulated that maybe a little bit better. Um, but uh as um a manager, someone leading a six, is there anything else that you would add? And you kind of touched on it, but anything else um under that? Because that's always kind of an interesting uh dynamic there.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

So the six wants like the so when I I know I'm in my six-iness when I'm making phone calls or um reaching out to here and there and everywhere, and the friends and the work colleagues and the to to like get information to get guidance or to gather, gather, gather. So like we tip like when I'm in my best, most confident space, in the space that self-doubt isn't running the show, I'm not looking to others for all of that. So I think as a manager, like there is probably some room to observe your sixes around how much do they defer to others and how much are they looking to others in their decision making, and kind of help kind of guiding or nudging or helping them to like tap into their own inner knower and their own inner guidance because that's really where the answers are, and and it and it can really scatter a six to so like be in that process of like you have the answer, you have the answer, you have the answer, you have the answer, but and there's little looking in, there's little of that.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Interesting. Okay, good to know. Um, and then last question around the type six, I think. Um, this is maybe more for our sixes listening. Um, you know, the other other types will sometimes express like the frustration um of the constant, what feels like constant questioning and skepticism and maybe maybe some of that Debbie Downer energy in a in a meeting, brainstorming session, uh, got a new idea kind of thing. And then the sixth comes in, we'll we'll have you thought about this. And so it can feel like, oh gosh, they're always, you know, kind of bringing the energy down when I don't think that that's true. But so sixes, I think sometimes can think like, oh gosh, I wish I wasn't like this. But would you be willing to share how you can see that or maybe just in your own life, how you've seen some of that really insightful questioning actually be a superpower um in the work you do, the the life that you have?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do think, and I have been in that space in life where I probably like, no, I know I came off very negative, like very like, oh, that's not gonna work. And but I think that over time and sort of progressing that there is a superpower there because we can see sixes can see like the we have a way to see all the different possible outcomes, many, so many, and it is really useful to a group or team or person to have that as like a like a it's a possibility, and and it's a lot of times it's the thing that comes to the six around what could happen is really useful. It's really some it's things that other people just can't see.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah, I had a friend who said, uh, I wish I wasn't like this. I wish I could just, you know, get on board and get excited, and I wish I didn't have this like inner voice, but I do, and I was like, Oh no, I'm so glad that you do, because otherwise, you know, I might be walking off a cliff. Um, but it's like, no, I I I appreciate that. And so it is just um as a teammate, you know, uh kind of maybe reframing the story that they're being negative when maybe really they're being caring and thoughtful.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, and I think it is the also the responsibility of the six to deliver that message in the in the tone of generosity of spirit, right? Versus like I'm gonna knock that down, I'm gonna knock that idea down. Um, when it's more it's from it's coming from more of a oh, oh, that might be a hiccup. And I I still I want you to get from here to there, but maybe there's like oh, there's some renegotiating, renavigating that needs to happen for you to get from here to there due to this potential hiccup.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, yeah, great, great tip. Just kind of rethinking the delivery as a six. Um, and that can make all the difference. Say this, say almost the exact same thing, just you know, with a different tone or a little pretext or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, yeah. I do think that like whenever you're a person is poking holes in pretend in potential plans or visions or ideas, like it's the delivery of that message is really important. It's really important, and it's really like also to hold respect and care for that person's plan and their idea. So, yeah, the the delivery, I think, is really a key part of getting that message across.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Okay, okay. Well, you know, that's always interesting just to hear about how the type shows up in in real life because all of us read all the Enneagram books and all the Enneagram memes, and we can relate to it, but it's always just helpful to kind of hear how it shows up in people's personal experiences. So thank you for being open and sharing. When I'm not planning for the next episode or getting to interview the next podcast guest, I'm probably out doing an Enneagram team training or a group workshop experience. Because while Enneagram MBA is a podcast, it is also a team training company, which means whether you have a team of four or 40 or are planning an event for 400 people, there is an experience that is waiting to be created just for you and your team or organization or event. And I'm going to invite you to start that process over at enneagrammba.com where you'll be able to check out some of the initial ideas and options and then reach out to get in touch to start planning your own.