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You're listening to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm excited to be diving into this week's episode with you. Can you still use the Enneagram with people whose type you don't know? Or what about, you know, with people who don't even know that the Enneagram exists? How, if and how can you use the Enneagram? Um, some version of this question will come up sometimes during our team trainings or workshops. And I think a lot of times it's because you know, we've spent a day or an afternoon together and we've dove deep into the Enneagram and we've dove deep into learning about each other. But then people start to think about using what they've learned outside of that room beyond just the day. And so clients start to come to mind. Um other teammates and departments in other departments come to mind. Um, maybe your manager is not in the room, or maybe you're leading people who are not in the room. Um, how do you continue to learn about and use what you know about the Enneagram in those kinds of relationships with people who are not also learning about the Enneagram with you? Um, it is possible, and we're kicking off a series um to as one of many ways to help you do that. And the series is around how to know if you're working with a specific type based on some common qualities, some some characteristic clues. Um, and then if you're you're getting a sense of of somebody uh who's kind of aligning with some of that, those characteristics, um, what to know to get along with them at work, maybe either improve a relationship or just maintain the one that you have. And so we're gonna keep these short and sweet and just touch on one um at a time. We're gonna start with type five uh in this episode, and then we'll just kind of go around the Enneagram from there. Um, but you know, we don't ever want to label anybody. And again, there's myths and stereotypes, and at the end of the day, the Enneagram is about motive and not behavior. However, if if that person isn't, you know, identifying with their particular motive, there could be some outside clues that could get it, give us some direction, could that could give us a starting point for how to navigate a relationship with them. Um, I will say, and I'll probably say this again, that even though we're gonna spend the next, you know, the the series on really focusing on our other's awareness, the number one biggest bang for your buck, the best place to start when looking at your work relationships is yourself. And that's because you're the only person that has control over that's the only thing that you have control over, actually. You know, you can't control what other people do, if they trigger you, if they frustrate you, if they annoy you. Um, there's some things that you could say or recommend, but at the end of the day, it is up to us to know our triggers, um, our reaction to those triggers, what our impact on others might be, despite our intentions. And some of it's cringy sometimes. It's it's hard to look at, it's hard to admit. Uh, but that's the very first place to start in improving our work relationships is really being honest and and and and you know, self-aware and looking at what's ours to own and take responsibility for. So that's the first place to start. And then as you continue to grow and learn, and you'll probably always be learning and growing with your self-awareness, um, bringing in that other's awareness piece can be helpful too. And so to kick it off, we're gonna start with our type five in this series and look at how to know if you might be working with a type five and what to do about it. So, as a reminder, um, our type fives are striving to feel detached or self-sufficient, capable, competent. Um, I have in the last year or so moved to Mario Socorro's. He has uh awareness to action Enneagram. I have moved to his definition of the type five because I was finding that a lot of times people were getting caught up on the I want to feel capable and competent. And there are there are several types, sixes, threes, ones, um, especially that would be really drawn to that language, to that motive. And it was it was kind of causing some confusion. But when we use detached, it's it's not necessarily a negative thing, even though it can come across as that way, but it's I want to be detached from needing other people, from other people needing me, from people taking uh my energy, my time, my resources. Um, and so that's where I think that self-sufficient piece comes in. Um, and and and I don't know that we'll go through uh all the motives this much in detail, but this is one that I've I've just been explaining a little bit more. Um, so that's where this person is coming from that's striving to feel detached. Um, one of their superpowers, many superpowers, is figuring things out. Um, they absolutely thrive and excel when they have the opportunity to analyze or to research, um, to bring some sort of innovation or problem-solving um skills to a complex problem, a situation, a research project. Um, they they really are gonna stand out in that situation. Um, sometimes they their struggles at work uh can be thinking too much and not enough doing, uh, which, you know, we can all kind of get caught up in that. Um they can struggle with nurturing relationships. They are so focused on data and logic and research and statistics that they can sometimes forget, oh, we're talking about people here, which this there's a human being in front of me, or the this this is about a human experience. Um sometimes they might need to feel like they have to kind of show off how smart they are, how intellectual they are. Um, and it can come across either as um, you know, too much, whatever that might look like. Um, and sometimes it can come at the expense of making others not look as competent or as capable. Um, and then sometimes they may not, may not uh be as open or transparent when it comes to sharing their information or or uh yeah, being transparent with what they're finding. They kind of want to wait until they have it all, until they understand it all, um, so that if they get any questions, they know what they're gonna say. Uh, they won't be stumped. And uh so the so those are some struggles of our type five. Um, how to know if you're working with a type five. Um, some clues might be they don't say much in meetings. Um, even though you can tell that they're listening and intellectually engaged, they may not say a word in a meeting. Um, and it is because they are taking in the information, they're thinking things through, they're processing what they're hearing, they are not disengaged, they're probably very much engaged, uh, but could come across that way in meetings. You might be working with a type five if when they come into the office, they shut their door and just don't come out very often. They're definitely not hanging around in the break room or chatting about the weekend or the vacation or definitely not engaging in in much uh office gossip or or you know just chit-chatting in that way. Um, they they tend to keep to themselves and they appreciate it when others leave them alone as well. You might be working with a type five if they can talk forever about mental challenges or puzzles, theories, um, data, things that they're learning, um, but rarely reveal anything about themselves. So they'll share all the information about all the things they're learning about. Um, but you you might realize, you know what, I don't know anything about this person. You might be working with a type five if they do good work on a team and are a key member of that team, but maybe don't always want to join in the social gatherings afterwards. So, you know, you might you might have a big a big project you're working on and time is is up for the day, and you all are gonna go, you know, grab, grab a drink to relax, have happy hour, whatever. Um, they might head home. And it's not because they don't care about the team, that they don't want to be a part of the team. It's just they have a certain amount of energy for the day and they are very aware of how much energy that they have. And so they know when it's time to leave and go recharge. So they're, you know, they're rested and recharged to come back and hit it again um the next day. You might be working with a type five if they procrastinate because they need more time to look into it. And and you know, this is especially um well, as a teammate, but also as someone who's leading a type five to know this could be a struggle for them. And so to help them know when enough is enough, as far as when do you have enough information to make a decision? How will you know? What will that look like? You might be working with a type five if there's someone that can be relied on to offer deep insights and an objective perspective. So one of their kind of stereotypical mottos in life is show me the data, don't give me the drama. This isn't somebody who's going to, you know, co-sign your bad decisions or uh, you know, agree with everything that you say. This is not a yes person either. Um, they're not gonna get overly emotional, you know, maybe something really terrible happened or dramatic happened. They're not gonna get wrapped up in the emotions of it, but they can bring some really helpful insight and perspective that can be a just really valuable to have in a teammate. You might be working with a type five if they're able to focus on what's important and always act like an adult slash a professional. Um, and this kind of piggybacks on what we just talked about. Like they're they they yep, they're gonna be pretty uh they got the the adult professional hat on, be pretty objective, pragmatic, uh data driven, information driven, and just not get caught up in in you know all the rest of it. How to get along with the type five at work. Um, if you're getting, if some of the these qualities, these clues are coming to mind for somebody that you work with, um, a couple ways to get along with them are one, make sure that you respect their time and their space. So you want to avoid busting in on them as much as possible, or if you're a remote team, you know, bombarding them over on Slack. Um, if you need something, giving them a heads up of when you're gonna need it, not just say, I need this in an hour, or uh, you know, coming in with the latest work gossip or whatever it might be. Um, just really being aware and respectful of their time and their space. When you communicate with them, you want it to be very direct. You want it to be clear, concise, and as efficient and thoughtful as possible. So again, they're not gonna love kind of the flowery background story leading up into to you making the point. Just go ahead and make the point. They're gonna appreciate that a lot. Um, anytime that you can really, you know, I think we're all kind of professionals and absolutely can be professional. Um, just making sure that you're bringing that energy to your conversations, to your interactions of a five, um, because they are very sensitive and can sometimes have a fear of people getting messy or what they might experience as over-emotional. Again, this is something that as a leader, a type five might need to work on uh to really, you know, to be there for for their teammate to respect the the people are humans and not robots. Um but as a teammate to a type five, this is something or leading a type five, this is something to be aware of and and when you can do your best um not to to be overly emotional. And then uh the last one kind of ties into that that point before this, and not not bringing your personal life in as much as you can. Just kind of leave your personal life out of work matters. Um for some people that's really important, that that's a way for them to feel connected and they need that. And it and it can feel almost like this person doesn't care about me, this person um is mean, uh, you know, this person is a good teammate uh because they don't want to hear about you know my vacation or my weekend or you know the new puppy that I got. And I don't want to say this is true all the time, every time. Um, right? Some fives will say, Oh, I absolutely love to hear the office gossip, or I I I enjoy hearing about people's, you know, vacations. Um, but I would just be, you know, aware of this and kind of kind of see how they respond when you do share something and just being aware of, okay, how is this person receiving the story that I'm telling about my vacation? Is this a person to tell my vacation to? Not everybody at work is gonna be that person, right? We have different people in our personal lives that we we have different, we come to with different problems and different and different situations and same thing. And the type five just maybe not may not be the most comforting in in a time of a crisis or the most excited to hear about, you know, yeah, I don't know, some something exciting that happened at uh at home or on the weekends. Um, it doesn't, it doesn't mean they're bad, they're wrong. Um, and some again might it, these are just some things to be aware of, to reflect on, to consider. Maybe um, depending on how much you work with this person, this is a great place to start asking questions and being curious. Hey, I'm I'm learning about this thing called the Enneagram. Uh, there's a type five on there, and this is what the type five kind of stands for. And these are some of the recommendations that they they say to work better with this person. Like what's true for you, or what else should I know? What else would you add to this list? Right. I don't know that you need to do that with every single person in the workplace, but if it's somebody that you are working with often, um, this might be a great conversation starter. So with that, uh, we will be looking at type six the next time we do uh a solo episode in this uh how to know what type you're working with series. Um if you happen to be a five and have additional thoughts or um things that didn't make it to this list that are really important to you, or maybe something that I got totally wrong, um, let me know and I will uh be sharing audience or listener feedback as we go through these. So whenever you're listening to this, let me know and I'll somehow we'll share it in a wrap-up episode to this series, or as we go along, I'll bring it up. Um you can email me, Sarah, at enneagrammba.com, or find me over on LinkedIn or Instagram and let me know about your personal type five experience and what the rest of us should know about um getting along with you and being a good teammate at work. So thank you for being here and uh I can't wait to see you in the next one.