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You're listening to the Enneagram at Work Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm looking forward to diving into this week's episode with you. Welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram at Work Podcast. I am your host, Sarah Wallace. And if you're listening to this on the weekend when it's published, welcome and I hope you're having a great Saturday. Uh, regardless of when you're listening to this, I hope you're having a great weekend, week, day. And speaking of welcome back, I am getting back from another workshop trip, this time down in Dallas. And uh it was very windy when I was down there. There was a tornado watch the morning of the workshop. The electricity at the hotel went out, which was kind of eerie for a few hours. I was wondering how that was gonna go getting ready. Um, and then that night my flight ended up getting canceled multiple times. Uh uh, they tried rebooking it, got canceled again, which is fine. It made it back safe and sound. Um I always, anytime there are flight delays or issues, knock on wood. It's been on the way home, which most of the time there's a little bit more flexibility uh rather than coming in. So thankful for that. Thankful to get back safe and sound. And uh that group was like all, like all groups in their own unique way, was a really fun one because we were doing, we got to share the Enneagram with a group of emerging and new leaders. So rather than being a group that works side by side where we're really talking about um co-worker dynamics and and relationship buildings, working working through real life scenarios, um, there was a little bit of that, but really the focus in in those situations when it's used kind of for that professional leadership development programming is about self-awareness and self-management. And so we were we introduced the Enneagram through the lens of leadership styles, being self-aware of our strengths, and when we overuse those strengths as leaders, and then um looking at how we can use the Enneagram with different types, and then we'll look at some um specific growth path, growth goals, depending on um what type you are to work towards, or I guess along that leadership path. So that was a wonderful uh experience. That's always really fun. And um, it was an interesting too because we got to overlay this, the new emerging leadership map with the leadership teams map. And I'm gonna be sharing um uh an episode but maybe in a couple weeks, um, just things to think about and in that dynamic and how your own leadership team can use that. Um, and just kind of the common themes among the emerging leaders group versus the leadership team, how to kind of help the emerging leadership team grow, where the gaps might be for the leadership team. Um so just some things to look at. And again, all of this with the intention of how can we continue to be practical, um, useful with the internet, or not the internet, the Enneagram, and just letting it rather than just letting it be something fun, which I think and I hope that it is fun, but I also want it to be useful. So stay tuned for that. Um, today we're going to be looking at a specific meeting dynamic, and I will give the disclaimer that this is we are we are stereotyping here, okay? Uh these are general descriptions, ways to think about these types, um, common tendencies that they each have, but that doesn't necessarily mean that if you are one of these, this is how everyone thinks that you show up, or I think you show up, um, or that we should assume that our teammate is going to do or to show up in a certain way if their type is one of these. Um, so I'll I'll share that disclaimer, but we can look at it what through the the lens of these two types, but we can also just kind of think in in general, like there's kind of some like an energy regardless of what type you are that you might bring if you're relating to more of the type seven teammate that we're gonna talk about, or there's some some some energy, some things you might do if you're more in line with this type five energy, again, regardless of what type you are. So I think um no matter what type you are, you're probably gonna see yourself in one or the other. Um, you might see yourself a little bit in both, and each type, again, can take on different qualities, um, behaviors of of each other at times, depending on what's going on, stress, if they're do have done a lot of growth, just the day. So I want to be careful about saying this is how all sevens are gonna show up in a meeting, and this is how all fives are gonna show up in a meeting. Um and uh and and if you've been listening for a while, I think you know uh that that we're always cautious about that. But just as a reminder um and a disclaimer, if this happens to be one of the first ones you're listening to. So let's take a look at this type five, type seven meeting dynamic. So you may have been in a meeting, maybe either as somebody who is watching this take place, or potentially as being on the receiving end of one of these, or maybe you notice yourself in one of these and how you might feel. And uh we're specifically gonna look at a brainstorming meeting um and how each of these types might show up, might be thinking about the situation, might be thinking about each other. So you're in this brainstorming meeting, you might have one person who is rapid firing ideas left and right. Uh it's kind of like popcorn, it's exciting, it's energizing, um, there's energy going. But then on the other end, though, you might have somebody who is quietly sitting back, observing, maybe taking notes, maybe just sitting there. And you think, gosh, this person is aloof. They're not engaged at all. Are they even, are they even with us? Are they listening? Are they paying attention? Um, and again, we're talking about the five and the seven, but I think there are a couple different types that you could swipe in here, swap in here, and it and it would be very similar. Um, so we're gonna look at this dynamic between a seven and a five where you have the seven who I mean, brainstorming is their love language. Uh, we have type seven mugs, and on the back it says just that. Uh, brainstorming is my love language, and sevens love to a good whiteboard uh situation most of the time. Just putting all the ideas of what's possible. Um, what if we did this? Ooh, or what if we did that, or what would happen of this, or let's change this. And for a seven, what I hear f from other sevens is that many times they know that they're not gonna be able to do all the new ideas, or they might have a really exciting new idea initially, but it's like, you know, I'm gonna think about it a little bit. I'm gonna sit on it. And eventually I'm gonna realize, oh, you know, it's probably not doable. Or or the way that I was originally thinking it, probably, probably not the best uh for everybody. So I'm gonna get there, but it means so much if you can just let the seven kind of air out those ideas and it and it really even takes it to the next level. If you can kind of go back and forth with them and and what if, oh yeah, what if this, what if this? And uh I have a friend who we will we will voxer a lot. And uh sometimes we'll have these voxer sessions and we'll just say, hey, I'm just I'm just putting stuff on the table. Pick back up what makes sense to to pick back up on. I'm just gonna share some random, uh kind of fun at the moment ideas. But once you consider them, once you think about them, once you, you know, once time goes by, you may or may not want to pick all of them back up, but maybe there's a piece of something you pick up. So let's just put it all out there on the table and then we can figure out later what we want to pick back up. We don't have to, as we're putting it out there in real time, decide if it stays on the table or not. So that's how all our here are sevens approach brainstorming, where our fives might be a little more withdrawn. They're they might process what's being said, what's being asked, the ideas that are being written on the whiteboard. They might be processing them. They are processing them a little bit more slowly, though, in their minds, more thoughtfully, maybe more carefully. Um, as a reminder, our sevens are striving to feel excited. So it makes sense that this would be some common tendencies of our type seven teammates in a brainstorming session. They are looking for that excitement, that what's possible, what's next, the optimism, optimism. Um, and then our fives are striving to feel detached, self-sufficient, competent, capable. So it makes sense that they would maybe pull back just a little bit, observe before speaking. Like the this dynamic based on that core motive or that strategy that they tend to use most often, it makes sense why they each show up this way. Um now, if you're a seven in this meeting, you might be thinking to yourself, oh my gosh, you know, I am fueling the fire, I am I am fueling the creativity fire over here with these ideas. I'm really getting the energy going, I'm sharing interesting ideas. And if you're a five, you might be wondering, when is everybody going to stop talking long enough for you to share an actual good idea? And that might be that might be a couple thoughts that these two types might have. So it makes sense then, based on this, that there might be some friction, there might be some miscommunication, there might be um some challenges when it comes to collaborating because of these very different approaches, because of the perspective that each of them have, the lens that they're looking at the same situation through, but seeing it from a very different lens. So our type seven might think brainstorming is all about the energy. Let's just, let's just bounce ideas off each other in real time and just see where it happened, see what happens, see where the magic unfolds. Um, you never know because sometimes somebody says something and then somebody else says something, and before you know it, we're we're we've put these ideas together or we've come up with something completely new, but we would have never got there had we not had all this the bouncing of ideas. And a five could really struggle in a brainstorming session if if that's how it's ran. They're gonna want to see maybe a little bit more structure and logic and maybe some efficiency to this brainstorming session. So they might be thinking, you know what? Um, maybe it would be a good idea if we all brainstormed on our own before coming to the brainstorming meeting and write down the ideas that we have and then only share the ones that make sense. So, you know, maybe we're going to, maybe it makes more sense as a type five. Um, they might think, let's let's explore these ideas fully before we just start throwing things on the wall. Um, before we jump into the next idea, let's could we sit here and think about and explore this idea that brought up. It's a good idea. Can we explore it before we move on to the other 12 ideas? So again, you can start to see, okay, this is where some clash and friction is going to happen. Um especially around interrupting. And this is something that um I think sevens would do out of excitement. Um, maybe eights might also do, but it might be out, it could be out of excitement, but it could be more coming from a place of kind of wanting to control the conversation, the direction where it's going. Um, so they these you might jump in and interrupt, or what others interpret as an interruption. But you might see it, especially as a seven, as collaboration, as engagement. And so you might interrupt somebody else because you're, you know, you're just you're you're flowing, you're vibing, you got that energy. Somebody might interrupt you, but you don't see it as that. You see it as they are in, they are in it, they are excited to be here with you, and it's just like, oh yes, yes, yes, we're adding fuel to this fire. But a five, sometimes our nines might feel this way as well, um, might see interruptions as disruptive or as dismissive. You don't care about what I have to say, you're not even gonna let me finish what I'm saying. Um, and I I'm I'm still thinking. And this can happen sometimes. Um I think I think most of the time it happens on accident. I don't know that anybody's purposely trying to cut cut somebody off um just just to, you know, to be mean, to, to, to cause problems. Um but I also think that uh or and I also think sometimes you may not even you may not even realize that the person is still talking. Sometimes fives, um nines, maybe, maybe fours, uh, you know, we all we all can sometimes um uh be a little slower to to sh to share ideas to get words out. Feels like like I'm doing right now. Um and so there are others though that just tend to like thought pops in, words go out. And there are others that thought pops in, and then I'm gonna have another thought that is analyzing that thought, and then I might analyze it a little bit more before I actually say. And so I want to make sure that my land, my words land how I intended them to. I want to make sure that what I'm saying makes sense and that it is, you know, it's it sounds smart. I don't, I don't, you know, make a mistake or I I'm not just saying random things. I want to make sure before I talk. So sometimes fives and other, like I mentioned, nines, I I can see this happening too often too, um, is they will kind of pause. And somebody might think that they are done talking, but they're just processing and and going to say something else. And that can be really difficult for those of us who are a little more uncomfortable in silence or who get so excited and and do want to just kind of jump in when there is uh a moment for us to do so. We think, oh, they're they're done talking, or they've taken a breath. This is a great chance for me to to jump in, but they're not done yet. They're just they're just a little bit slower to get it out because they really want to be intentional with what they're saying. Um, our type sevens tend to really appreciate kind of that open-ended exploration of ideas, where our type five is really craving in these situations depth and clarity. Okay, like throwing 25 ideas on the whiteboard isn't exciting for a type five. But also, it's not exciting for a type seven to have all these ideas inside their heads and not be able to at least put them out on the table, so to speak, like we were talking about. Um, so sometimes some problems that might come up here is that our sevens um might be experienced as dominating the conversation and overwhelming others, especially in this situation, the type five, with too many scattered ideas. It's like, I don't know what to focus on. I what there's so many ideas, I don't know what to do with these. What do we focus on? What do we do? This might feel like a waste of time because we're not really getting into anything to even know if it's feasible. So what so what are we even doing? And that can feel frustrating. Um, our type five, when this happens, might really pull back, withdraw, retreat, feeling like the discussion is just it's too chaotic to contribute in a meaningful way. And so we lose out on the type five's really thoughtful, creative, problem-solving ideas. So it is uh, it is, it's just important. This is a dynamic that is really important to be aware of. Um, and when this happens, important insights from our type five can get lost. We need those that, like I just said, one of their key strengths is their ability to really be creative with the data, with the analysis, with the observations that they have been taking in. And then as they thoughtfully put it back out and make sense of it, it can really be insightful, powerful, really helpful and useful. So we don't want to lose out on that because they've withdrawn because they feel overwhelmed. Our sevens, on the other hand, that excitement may lead to rushed, maybe half-baked plans, half-baked ideas, and it can feel a little scattered to the rest of the team, definitely to the five. So, what's how do we solve this dynamic? What do we do here? Uh, we want to make this this meeting, this brainstorming session work for both types. So, step one is we just have to recognize the dynamic. This is always step one in these situations where we just have to bring some awareness, some um, some recognition to what is going on. So, notice as a type seven, if this happens to be you or if you happen to be working or leading a seven, notice when they're rapid-firing ideas without leaving a lot of room for other people's responses. Um, type sevens, if you notice you're the only one that's talking and sharing these exciting new ideas, maybe just take a pause, take a pause, kind of check in. Um, I identify as a type seven and I can feel myself in workshops and sometimes in conversations, um doing this, just getting really rushed with my my speaking, um, getting really excited. And I I I sometimes almost feel my I almost feels like going off track a little bit because I'm I'm almost like my my thoughts can't keep up with how fast I want to get these things out. And so sometimes I don't know that it makes a lot of sense. And so I really have to be intentional. And you may even hear it on on the podcast if you've been listening, um, or in a workshop, I will have to really be intentional about slowing down the pace and sometimes even turning down the volume and just slowing it down as I'm describing something, just taking a little more time, get the words out, let my thoughts fully form before saying them. And sometimes that can actually help people pay even more attention um to what you're trying to say. So some sevens might really have that dialed in. You know that about yourself, you've done you've done that already, and and you can you notice when you do it, or or maybe you don't even notice, you've done it, you've just had to adapt, you've learned to adapt, um, and that is awesome. Others, this might be something for you to practice to just to just to just to practice. Notice when you're doing this, recognize, and then practice slowing it down. For our type fives in these situations, you've really gotta, you've really got to fight the urge to retreat completely, to just totally check out. If the conversation is moving too fast, you might just say, Hey, Let's just pause for just a second. Uh I'd like to add something. I mean, that is that is very attention grabbing. I'm, you know, slow it down, speak up, resist the urge to totally check out. Hey, let's just pause here for just a second. I'd like to add something. So it might be something you practice by yourself so that when the time calls for it, you're ready to say that. Uh step two is we've we've kind of gotten into this a little bit already, just slow down that brainstorming flow. And for our sevens, instead of blurting out 10 ideas, try sharing one and just letting it breathe a little bit before jumping to the next. Or you could have um like a flash brainstorm dump where, hey, everybody, let's just get things up on the whiteboard for the next five minutes. So just share everything you got. And then the rest of the brainstorming time, we can go through it and with more depth and thoughtfulness. So that's another way to potentially approach that because it's sevens are gonna want to get those ideas out. Um, but it will be the work of the seven to pull back a little bit to slow that down and and let those ideas breathe. Our fives, if you need time to process, don't wait until the conversation is over. Just use a quick verbal cue. Hey, I have a thought on that, to signal when you're ready to jump in or when you'd like to jump in. People want to hear from you. Uh, you know, make sure, again, just be cautious of feeling like, hey, it's it's pointless to even say anything. Nobody's listening. This is chaotic. Um, you could really have a very impactful, very influential, uh, very commanding really presence by just saying some of these things, slowing it down, speaking intentionally. I have a thought. Hey, I have a thought I'd like to add on that. All right, step three, uh, you want to structure the meeting to help both types. Again, here I am. I'm kind of getting ahead of myself. So um one thing you could do was kind of that that quick everybody share their ideas, everybody go around the room. We're gonna go counterclockwise. If you have an idea when it's your turn, shout it out, we'll put it on the board or we'll put it on the paper, we'll we'll put it on the the uh the table, so to speak. And if you don't have an idea, we'll skip you and we'll just keep going around and around until everybody is out of ideas or our time limits up, is one way. Um, that way everybody has an opportunity to speak. Um, another way to do this is you could have some sort of uh rule where no one gets to talk twice before everybody has talked at least once. And I really like that one. Um, I think that one can be beneficial for our type fives. I think it could also, again, be beneficial for our type nines. Um, another idea is everyone write down the ideas before the discussion starts. So this is one of the things we talked about that the five might wish people would do. Uh and so this might be a type five suggestion. And this can really be helpful. I think it's um, I don't know if it's Jeff Bezos or where I heard the story, but uh he requires everybody to whatever the meeting, however the meeting is gonna go, you got to type it up, you gotta put it on the paper. If you want to propose something, you gotta write it out rather than just verbalizing it because it really forces you to be thoughtful and meticulous and understand, you know, how things are gonna impact each other so that when you are presenting it to the group, it it makes sense, it is ready to do something with if it makes sense to move forward on. Um, and so writing down can be really helpful, especially for our sevens who might have so many ideas and you might see right away as you write them down, you're like, oh yeah, that's kind of that's probably not gonna work. Just scratch it out, but you you were able to get it out. Um, and so this idea specifically with the writing helps fives organize their thoughts and it helps our sevens kind of focus that energy. And then uh we talked about the timed uh system where each person gets 30 seconds, 60 seconds to present an idea before moving on. And this can be really helpful for our sevens to keep it to keep it tight, to keep them from dominating the the brainstorming session while also encouraging the type five to participate. And so, you know, whatever that time frame is, um setting setting some sort of time. All right, and then step four is appreciating each other's strengths because both of these types are bringing a lot of good things to this brainstorming meeting dynamic. Our type fives um insights add depth and practicality to the type seven's big ideas. So for sevens, the things we really want to appreciate about those fives is that depth, is that practical uh practicality, is the logic, the rationale, the data that they're using to back up to hopefully be able to bring all your big ideas or at least some of your big ideas to life. So you can lean on them for the how behind your what if, what's possible ideas. And then our type five, the thing that you can keep in mind that the uh to appreciate in your type seven teammate is that sevens really can spark a lot of energy. They can be um incredibly magnetic, um, they can also be incredibly innovative. And so be willing to allow some flexibility in the brainstorming process. You you want to have a process so that it gets done. Um, things are appropriately vetted for efficiency, for um practicality, but just allow there to be maybe some room, some space for going off the rails a little bit in a brainstorming session. And it doesn't have to be an hour, it's just like, oh, okay, let's just let them talk, you know, off the rails, maybe for 30 seconds kind of thing. And so um, those steps again were just recognizing the dynamic, step one, step two to to help improve this uh workplace dynamic collaboration is to slow down the brainstorming flow. We talked about a couple ways to do that. Step three is to structure the meeting to help both types. We talked about three ways to do that, and then step four, making sure you're appreciating each other's strengths, and that can really help. As someone might be frustrating to you, um, it can take that frustration down just a notch if you can also remember, you know what, this this is frustrating, but that same energy is also fueling these things that I really appreciate about this person or really appreciate what they're bringing to this meeting. So, with that, as we wrap up, we want to thank type sevens, one of their superpowers is expanding what's possible. And our type fives are really great at refining and focusing on those things that might be possible. So the best brainstorming sessions really happen when both of these types, when both of these energies are coming together. So in your next brainstorming meeting, you could try this. Start with two minutes of silent writing, maybe before speaking, or you could assign everybody to come to the meeting with their ideas, having set aside two minutes on their own time or however long before anybody speaks. And then that can really help the type five, like we said, organize their thoughts and it give this type seven a chance to focus their excitement. So brainstorming isn't just about who talks the most, it's about making space for the best ideas. So whether you are the idea machine or you're the deep thinker, we need everybody to be heard. And we need everybody to participate in a way that um allows others to also participate and and and brainstorm in this specific situation. So with that, uh I hope that there is something that you can take away and either use yourself as you go into a future brainstorming meeting, or if you happen to lead one of these types, that you can have some specific ideas for things to work with them on. And um, these are the sort of workplace dynamics that uh we talk about inside our Enneagram Dream Team workshops, inside our uh Enneagram Dream Team Certification Workplace Program. And if this is something you are interested in bringing to your own team, I'm gonna invite you to start over on our website at Enneagrammba.com to uh see what options are out there, what track might be best for you. And with that, thanks so much for listening, and I look forward to seeing you in the next one.