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You're listening to the Enneagram at Work Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm looking forward to diving into this week's episode with you. In the workshops that we do here at Enneagram NBA, there is a common dynamic that comes up over and over again. And when I share this, I want you to keep in mind that the majority of our clients are in the corporate workplace or um growing quickly, large teams. And that is where we're seeing a lot of this. And when you think about, especially here in the US, that corporate culture, that workplace culture, this is going to make sense. This isn't to say this is the dynamic in all groups, uh, it's going to vary. And this isn't to say that in all workplaces, this is the dynamic, but based on the groups that we have worked with, so purely anecdotal here, um, this is what we're seeing a lot of come come up time and time again. And the dynamic is this we have a pretty heavy type 8 leadership team. And then we have a pretty large representation of type sixes among the various departments. And so this becomes really evident when we'll do our signature half day workshop. And typically in those workshops, we have time to break out by type or similar type where, and again, this is um this is something that we'll we talk through during the workshop about not getting married to the results. But it's just, hey, at this point in time in the day, what type are you resonating the most with? And you're you go to those groups and you're allowed to leave if that those aren't your people, but if you found those people, stay and and kind of feel validated that you're not the only one. Turns out you're not crazy. Uh so that's always a favorite activity, but we also really get a visual when we break out by the groups, and there does tend to be a pretty large group of sixes. And then when we look at uh the leadership team, when we're doing a holds apartment, um, the leadership team tends to gather around the eights. Not everybody, of course, but the majority of them based on what we see. As a reminder, our type eights are striving to feel powerful, to have the power to produce a result. They have incredible energy, they move things forward, they are not going to back down from a challenge. Um, they have the vision and they have the ability to move it forward, get it done. We talk all the time about if the type eight had a brand, it would be Nike, just do it. Our type sixes are striving to feel secure. So assessing risks, maybe being a little bit more thoughtful, therefore a little bit more slower to act is common. Uh instead of kind of figuring out along the way, or hey, we're probably gonna run into some problems, we'll figure it out when we get there, which tends to be the thought process of the eight. They're just let's move forward. Um, the six tends to want to have a plan. Hey, things, if things are going to go wrong, let's first understand what might go wrong. And can we come up with some contingency plans? Uh, can we make sure that this is the right direction before we just start steamrolling there and then have to back up or redo things? And so, just in that very brief description, you can already kind of see where these two types might have some friction in the workplace among teammates and then also among the leadership and the the team that the that's being led. And a very because this is a common dynamic, one of the most common pieces of feedback that we get in our pre-workshop questionnaires, probably I would say top three comment just varies where it where it lands, is something about I wish we had more information. I wish we knew what was going on, uh, I wish there was more role clarity, I wish there was more um communication from the leadership about what is going on or why they need what they're telling us they need, just some additional context. And we'll have all kinds of versions of that feedback come in. And so it takes up a big piece of the pie chart. And this isn't just one group, this is multiple groups that very common. And so when you think about the type that tends to show up the most on the team, the type of feedback, what they're saying that they need from the leadership team, what they're saying that they appreciate from the leadership team, what they say that might be missing, it makes sense that it is what it is. And then it also makes sense why there may be a gap in those types of things because you have the leadership team who isn't necessarily thinking about explaining things, slowing down to provide some additional context, um, checking in, everybody okay. Um, it's just full steam ahead. Hey, we have things to do, we we need to get things done. Um, and so it's like, okay, this feedback that the team is getting makes sense. They're definitely not alone. Um, and it's to think about uh, okay, this is we're getting this type of feedback. And then when we look at our team map and see um what types are represented the most or what people are saying they resonate the most with, well, this type of feedback absolutely makes sense that this is something that we would get. And so it's interesting, even when we start doing map analysis, analysis, analysis, I guess, uh, that you can even start to think, okay, well, of course you would get, of course, the team would be saying these sort of things. Of of course, when we are being led by this striving to feel safe, secure, risk assessment, risk, uh, minimizing risk, avoiding risk, planning, wanting more details and information, right? So right away, nobody's doing anything wrong. No team is, you know, messed up, no team is is worse than the other. It's it's just this dynamic comes up so often. And so it makes sense that that feedback comes up so often. And what I will hear from the different groups is that they will, the sixes will say, um, and sometimes we'll have groups like the twos chime in where they'll say, you know, you're telling us eights, maybe even three is just kind of this energy of let's get it done. You're telling us to come to you and just be brutally honest and just give it to you straight. But when we do, it feels like sometimes we get attacked. Sometimes it feels like now we're on trial, and all of a sudden, what was a question or a suggestion or a thought, we now have to sit in a meeting and defend it. And it turns out it was just a thought, it was just a question, and now the attention's on us, or um, we've we feel like uh we've upset you, or it feels to you like we're questioning your authority. And so that question, that word of caution uh gets taken out of context sometimes, or that that person that's giving it just doesn't feel like I just don't feel like I can be quote unquote brutally honest because when I am, I end up in the hot seat in in front of everybody, or I end up having to, you know, give you 10 points about why I and and justify my thought here. And an eight will say, just, you know, just tell me, just tell me what it is. And I'm not thinking about it like that. I I'm just I want I want to hear what you have to say if you have to hear, if you have to say something. Um, but I may not have time to explain it. I may not be able to explain it. Uh it, I may not even be thinking about it. I may just say no and move on. Um, and then the type six is feeling dismissed. Or they'll say, Well, I want to understand where you're coming from, so I'm gonna ask you some questions, but potentially the tone, the intensity uh can sometimes feel like you're on trial on the receiving end. So these are some things that will come back in our conversations where we have this dynamic. And uh the leadership team will say things like, um, or the type eight group will say things like, listen, I don't always want to be in charge. I don't necessarily have to be in charge, but I have to feel like what is being done is being done with confidence and it's being done right, it's being done well. And if you're coming to me kind of hemming and hawing, and you're giving me six different options and you're asking me, then I feel like, well, you know what, never mind. Let me, I'll just, I'll just do it. I'll just, I'll just do it. And meanwhile, the sixes will respond with something like, Well, you know, I'm not sure what to do. I want to run a few things by you and get your thoughts on which way we should go, what the right decision is here. And so there's just so much of this kind of the way that we see the world through our own lens, and then with that, we're interpreting each other's communication and intentions. And one outcome recently that came up, and I really liked this because I think this is something practically you can use if you have a similar dynamic, is the eight the the eight leader in this particular situation said, you know, I I truly do not want to be in charge of everything. And so what might be helpful so that I don't feel like I have to do that, and it gives you the confidence to practice your decision-making skills. It's like not everything is a level 10 decision. You know, what should we order for the team lunch isn't gonna have a huge impact versus, you know, maybe some details around this new product launch that we have spent the last year building. Yeah, that I want you to maybe run some things by me. Still, it would be great if you gave me a recommendation and why, but you could also say, or you know, this is an option because of this. But I want you to feel confident about what you're sharing with me. And then they'll say, I need you to be confident when you're presenting these options because you could be saying the same thing, but if you're like, well, this or um this or that, um, the eights are saying, I I I don't I don't feel good about that. I don't feel like you have it. And then that means I have to take it and so that I have it, but I don't necessarily want to have it. Um, and so that is something that the eights can work on, maybe developing that confidence decision-making practice in their teams, and then as the the sixth teammate, um, working on building that muscle, making decisions. And so what they said was there's gonna be some situations where you just make the decision. It's a low level, you know, maybe one, two, three level, you know, situation. And so if you mess it up, it's not the end of the world, right? The companies aren't gonna have to close their doors. Nobody's, you know, job isn't going to be in jeopardy. Those, those types of low-level decisions, you don't have to bring to me. And I I want you, in fact, I want you to start making some of those decisions. Now, if it is a level eight, nine, ten, it's gonna impact the company, it could impact your job, my job, somebody else's job. Um, yeah, let's let's talk through that, but I still want you to bring that confidence. Um, this is something that has come up often, and people are always wondering what I want to know more about the different uh type matchups, how they work together, that coworker compatibility. And this is one that I see so often. And in case this is in your uh organization or your department as well, hopefully some of this insight about kind of what's going on behind both of the types frustration. Um, because what the sixes will say is you're well, you're not making it safe. You're not making it okay. Like it doesn't feel like I could make a decision and mess up, regardless of the level of uh consequence. And so yeah, I'm a little nervous. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna overthink it a little. Yeah, I want to run it by you. Um, and I may not be super confident because of how you've reacted in the past. So it's not on one type or one person in this relationship. It's just, hey, let's understand what's going on here. And then let's come up with a couple of things that we can each do better and we'll just test that out. How is that going? How is that? Is that creating more competence? Uh in in both in both people, is that moving us forward? Is that helping with frustration? No, okay, what else could we try? Uh let's let's try something else, let's practice something else, let's let's uh come up with some other ideas, but at least we have an understanding of what is going on and where some of that frustration is coming from. And so I think that that's a good reminder for sixes when you're coming to your eights, whether it's your manager or a teammate, they want to feel that confidence. And so whatever you need to do to feel to be able to project that confidence, you know, work on that. And one of the uh the growth opportunities for a six is around looking for the evidence, looking for all the evidence that you have done things well, that you have gotten it right, that um you do make good decisions because they're thoughtful. You get the information, you talk to the people. And so remembering that because you can forget and just look to the future and think all that could go wrong, but remember and to look back and remind yourself of all the times things did go right. Now, of course it didn't go right all the time. You didn't nail it every single time, but I am guessing that our sixes have a bag full of evidence of things that they have done well, that they have a bag full of wins. So remembering that. And then the eight's work in this situation uh is gonna be around creating that space, um, that safe place, that um to encourage those teammates to be confident, to share. It's not enough just to say, well, my door is open, come in and share every time. You know, we're gonna have to, as eights or people with this type of energy, um think about your reaction when somebody quote unquote gives it to you straight or shares their ideas. What you know, how do you, how do you react? And that is part of uh the the space that you're creating to for people to be able to to want to come to you and that development of that person. So what we're going, what I'm going to do, because the other thing about this and that makes the Enneagram um so good, so rich, but also, especially in the beginning, can add to some typing confusion, is I'm talking very basic type eight, type six from a very basic definition, right? Um, when you get down into it though, we've talked about if you listen to this podcast before, we've talked about kind of that the flavor of the type. And each type has three flavors. We call those instinctual biases, according to um the awareness to action enneagram. And that also can play a part into this dynamic because we're not just looking at a straight six or a straight eight. There are multiple different flavors of each. There's three. There's three different flavors of each. And so that that adds even kind of more uh insight we need to be collecting, awareness we need to be paying attention to. So I have some notes here, and uh, I want to pull these up so I can get to you. Um, and I want to go through these three types of eights and three types of sixes, and then start to think, okay, what else might be kind of causing friction? And what else do I need to be leveraging with this person? You know, tapping into, um, leaning on, asking recommendations, asking for their advice because they're really great at this. And this is kind of where I'm at over here. So, as a reminder, our uh instinctual biases are kind of the the thing that we value the most, and then our strategy or our type is the way that we go about getting it. So, for example, our type eights, striving to feel powerful. If there's three instinctual biases, and we've done some episodes in the past on this. So if this is new to you, I will include some of those episodes in the show notes so you can um you can listen to those, but I'm gonna, I'm just gonna kind of jump in um for the sake of time here and talk about the transmitting eight, the preserving eight, and the navigating eight. And so our um type eights are focused on asserting their strength, avoiding vulnerability, they're striving to feel powerful. But each instinctual bias, when mixed with that, is going to express itself a little bit differently. So if you are a preserving eight, you are looking to find that power, that control in the preserving things by um having control over your resources, having control and power over your routines, your environment. So building that strength and security through control over the preserving resources um items in your life. Our the behavior focus here is going to be this person is probably going to be more practical, more grounded, um, maybe more focused on taking care of their inner circle. This is the, you know, if you mess with, if you mess with my team, you mess with me, um, they can be incredibly protective and fiercely loyal. So sixes don't don't have the the only title for being loyal. Um eights, especially our preserving eights, fiercely loyal, but it can come with a little bit of control. And as I go through the rest of these, um we'll we'll talk more about this in future episodes, but this is I think the subtype that often gets most confused with the type one. We have our preserving eight, or am I a or am I a one, eight or a one? And typically it's this preserving eight that might think, gosh, I could also be a one. Um how this might show up is managing their environment, the people in their environment with confidence, whether it's um money, property, Logistics, like they just they they they know what to do, they're confident with it. Um, they might act like the patriarch or matriarch, the person in charge protecting and providing. They feel like it's their duty. It's my duty to take care of the team, um, maybe my family in a personal situation. Um, they can be a little gruff but warm. They might think, you know what, I show care by handling things. And we had one of my favorite pieces of feedback, this was, I don't know, maybe two years ago now, but I remember it, is we went around and we're sharing strengths that we saw in one another. And there was a type A at the table, and uh he was kind of making fun of himself with his gruffness and you know, a lot of these qualities that we've talked about. And when we had the opportunity for everybody to share, not everybody, but some people to share a meaningful piece of feedback that they got, this person shared and said, I was really surprised to hear, but um, you know, somebody had shared that they feel like whenever they have a problem, they can come to my office and they know that I'm gonna take care of it for them. Um, you know, I they you know, we may butt heads, uh, but when it comes to it, if if it is us against a client or a vendor or a situation, they know that I have their back and they feel like I'm gonna go in that, I'm gonna go in their office, I'm gonna sit at that chair, I'm gonna tell them what's going on, and I feel like I can trust them to take care of it or help me take care of it. And uh that meant a lot to him. And I really like that. And that that's kind of that energy here. Uh in the workplace, they're gonna be incredibly loyal managers, leaders, very protective of their team, but they do expect others to pull their own weight. They may resist unnecessary changes, they value that reliability, that loyalty. Um, and their the their growth opportunity here is going to be around letting others help, letting go of micromanaging, um, opening up a little bit. When we talk about sharing emotional vulnerability, um, we're not saying you gotta cry in front of your team, you need to read your diary. It's just there are there moments, are there moments, are there specific people where it makes sense for you to, you know, to infuse a little warmth in the conversation, maybe a little, you know, hi, how are you? How was your weekend? How was your vacation? How are you doing? Um, or relate to uh a failure that they might have had. So that is our preserving type eights. Um, they are powerfully preserving. Our navigating eights are powerfully navigating. So here they are looking to use that power and control within a group hierarchy. They're looking to take care of their tribe, protect the group. Um, some behaviors here might be being very strategic, a little charismatic. Um, these this type's going to be a little bit more politically savvy with that navigating instinctual bias. They are often looking at and focused on who's in, who's out, what's fair, what's not, what's going on within the group dynamics, what's happening here. So this person's just a little bit more kind of relation, relationally aware. Um, you might see these people champion justice and fairness for the for the group or for the organization. Um, they are known to be natural power brokers where they're building alliances and protecting the marginalized. They can dominate conversations or groups, sometimes without even realizing it. And then at work, they can be incredibly inspiring leaders who fight for their team. And with that same energy, they can clash with other dominant personalities. So they have an opportunity for their growth to look at um stepping back from playing the power games and finding opportunities to allow space for others to share their perspective and their thoughts. And one thing that we'll talk about in the groups, and this probably applies to all eights, um, is to speak last. Some types, like the type nine, we've talked about looking for opportunities to be the first one to speak, to share your opinion. Um, for eights, it's the opposite here. Is there an opportunity for you? When are there opportunities for you to let the team share first? And then and then you'll share at the end. So then not everybody is, you know, agreeing with the first thing that you said, and then the whole, the whole conversation uh is a little is a little skewed. All right. And then lastly, our our last flavor of eight are the transmitting eights. And so they are powerfully transmitting. This type is focused on leaving a legacy. Um here they are looking to use their power and control in a very intense way to attract and impact others. Um, they want to leave a dent in the universe, like Steve Jobs, uh go big or go home kind of thing. These people tend to be uh charismatic as well, incredibly passionate. Um, often they have this larger than life personality, and they are focused on expressing that strength and energy outward, letting people know. Uh, some typical behaviors that you might show up is just a really high-impact presence. And at times this can feel um and be seen as incredibly magnetic and inspiring and motivating, and other times that same high-impact presence can feel intimidating or domineering. They are focused on influence and attention, and one of their uh sub-subtypes, uh descriptors is uh around the concept of seduction. And this doesn't necessarily mean romantic seduction, it's just kind of that magnetism that we were talking about. Um, they can be confrontational and at times maybe even a little provocative. Uh, you'll see them in the workplace taking big risks. This is go big or go home, right? Um, challenge, they will challenge the status quo. Uh somebody might say, well, this is the way we've always done it, and they're gonna push back on that. They may dominate the conversations or can be seen as too much. So their opportunities for growth are gonna be similar to what we just talked about is is listening more and pushing less, recognizing how their intensity can infect and practice balance, restraint in certain situations. Now, we always have to be careful with all of these because um if we dial that back too much, you lose that spark, you lose the thing um that makes this specific type uh great to be around, right? A wonderful leader, an impactful leader. Uh and so it's just a matter of of dialing it in. And and a lot of times it might be the situation, and other times it might be, okay, this person in front of me, how you know, what do they, what what what sort of dialing in or dialing back, dialing up does this person call for? So from what I just said, what we know about sixes, you can already kind of start to see how, you know, some of this might be making them break out in hives. Uh, some of this might be causing a lot of stress. And you can see why when they ask questions, maybe some of these types of AIDS, uh, or just kind of the eight in general, might feel frustrated, might feel like it's slowing down progress already, right? We can already see that. Um, also, though, what I hear from AIDS or what I hear from sixes, it's that they can also find all three of these types of eights incredibly inspiring and motivating. And that confidence and boldness and decisiveness will spill over to them if they hang around them for very long. And so there's a lot of good that our eights can can pass along to our sixes too. So when we're looking at our sixes, um, they're striving to feel safe and secure. And we're gonna look at the three, the same three flavors, the same three instinctual biases, but when we match it up with the six energy, what does that look like? How does that get expressed? So the first one is we are securely preserving. So we just kind of double down on uh the the this is probably your stereotypical six, much like the transmitting eight, the last eight that we talked about was probably your stereotypical eight. It's the one that you most likely read about whenever you see descriptions of eights. This probably gonna be um very similar here with our preserving sixes. They um core driver is staying safe, doing so through preparation. Do I have enough resources? Um, staying safe within a routine, feeling safe with predictability and putting themselves in as much certainty as possible and avoiding uncertainty as much as possible. Um, they will they tend to be pretty practical, pretty loyal. I think any type can be loyal, but um you'll see this type being very responsible, very much for the common good. Um, the group tends to worry about safety. And worst case scenario, what might go wrong? What might go wrong and am I prepared? Um, at work, you might see them doubting their own judgment, um, but they will be deeply committed to the team, to the leadership, to their teammates once they feel like they can trust these people. They tend to be prepared for all possible outcomes. They can seem a little overly cautious. Maybe it's like, all right, all right, you're prepared. You don't need plan C, B, you know, C D E F. You got you got plan A and B. Um, and then they tend to bond with others on the team through shared task or a service to others. Um, at work, you'll find them being very reliable, tend to follow the rules. They like to work behind the scenes. They prefer not to be in the spotlight, and they may resist change the most. Uh, I don't think any six necessarily loves six, but especially our preserving sixes may resist change unless they, or I should say until they are convinced thoroughly, until they can trust that person or trust that this new plan is going to work. Um, this is another one that I think people go back and forth between am I a am I a six or am I a one? And oftentimes it's this preserving six that can also look like that one. Next is our navigating sixes. And here they're looking for safety and security through the group by um that social belonging, shared norms. And so they will orient towards the group um and look for people, groups that they can trust, that they have shared values. And once they feel that, hey, I can count on these people, they are going to be fiercely loyal as well. They want to maintain that loyalty and they they expect the same from others. Um, at work, you might see them really attuned to the dynamics on a team. Um, they're gonna be suspicious of authority at times, um, especially if they don't know a lot about that leadership team, they don't understand the um what's behind some of the decisions. Um, you might also see this person incredibly skeptical when a new manager or a new um executive team member steps in. But once they build that trust, they are deeply invested and loyal to that person. They might question your motives, they might question the policies and potential disruptions. Why have things slowed down? Why do we have to do this new, you know, HR policy? What what's really behind this decision? What are they really? Is this self-serving? Is this you know manipulative? So they're gonna question. Um, and it can seem like this person is doing it to be difficult, but when we remember, hey, their core strategy here is striving to feel safe and secure. And so they are trying to understand the motives behind some a decision, the motives behind that person, what's driving that person. Once I understand that person, whether I like it or not, whether I agree with it with or not, is less important to me. Um, what is important to me is that I know it. And so eights and sixes have that in common and that um it may not be as easy for sixes, certain sixes anyway, to just give it to you straight. But what I hear is that they do appreciate that because now I know where I stand. I feel safe in knowing the truth. What doesn't feel safe is when I feel like you're, you know, gassing me up and telling me that this is great when it's not great. Um, that does and that erodes trust. That feels like, okay, well, now I can't trust anything that you say. So both of our sixes and our eights, I hear often that they appreciate that honesty, even if they don't agree with it. They respect it and it and it builds trust. In the workplace, you'll see this navigating six, being incredibly team-oriented. Um, they tend to be really good at troubleshooting and spotting risks. And they may kind of, you know, test the leadership, test that new manager, um, maybe test the new teammate a little bit, you know, kind of push back on some things before they fully buy in. So their opportunity for growth is to develop independent thinking, uh, you know, very focused on the group. So there's an opportunity to kind of step away from that group. What do you think? What do you believe? And build confidence around that. And then there's some opportunities around balancing questions, because those are important, um, with trust. Are there opportunities? Are there situations? Are there people where maybe you don't have to ask as many questions? Maybe you don't understand it all, but because you trust that person, or because you trust this team, or because whatever, um, wherever that trust comes from, you you want to know five more things, you got 10 more questions, but could you just could could you just go along? Could you just say yes and move along? And again, you don't do that every time, but there may be opportunities for the benefit of your relationship with a particular person, for the momentum of the team to look for opportunities. Hey, I don't have to understand the ins and outs here. I uh I can go along with it. Um, and avoid over relying on group consensus, which kind of goes back to that develop independent thinking. Okay, and then our last type six is the transmitting six. So they are looking for, um, they are, I should say, securely transmitting. Um, they are looking for safety through this is kind of an interesting one, strength and assertion and visibility. Now, this is the type six where we might say, gosh, am I a six or am I an eight? I really feel this is the type of six that might feel like hey, I'm an eight. And sometimes, you know, people will say, How do we six and eights get confused? This, this is the flavor of a six that will often get confused as an eight. Um, I might have said that wrong. The flavor of a six that often gets confused as an eight. Um, so they're achieving that safety through strength, assertion, and visibility. You might see them a little more defiant. They're gonna push back a little more aggressively. They might be more comfortable taking charge because, hey, I trust myself. I feel safe and secure in my own decisions and ability to lead. So I'm gonna take the reins here. Um, at work, you might see them really challenging others, going toe to toe with the people, with the systems that feel unsafe or that feel unjust. So we have some of that justice energy here that a lot of times you'll see with our AIDS. They can appear very bold, very confident. Um, we talked about confrontational, yet it's not the striving to feel powerful that's driving them. It is the fear uh of not being safe and secure that is driving that behavior. So, same behavior potentially on the outside, but what's driving it can be very different. And then they may be drawn to causes um or ideologies to really rally behind that really gives them that that that push to keep moving things forward. Um, they tend to look very courageous and protective in the workplace. They may speak up when others don't, and they can be incredibly inspiring and sometimes maybe even be a little intimidating themselves. Um, so their opportunities for growth here is going to be to slow down, turn down that reactivity that can come up. Um look for the inner calm, maybe a little looking to be a little bit more grounded before questioning, before that confrontation starts. Um looking for ways to feel safe without needing to be on the offense. And that, I mean, that is deep. That's deep right there. That's some that's a probably a conversation with your therapist uh type of uh growth. Um, but that is a great point just to start to reflect on and and uh you know look for those again situations with particular people where you don't always have to be on the offense, the aggressor to feel like, hey, I'm gonna be okay. Um I'm safe, I'm okay. So um you can see from those, there could be even some clashes, and there are, there absolutely, there absolutely is um friction with among the types because of these different flavors. You can see how there might be some friction between the transmitting six that we just talked about here and the preserving six that we talked about first. Um, you can see how there might be some friction between our navigating eights and the transmitting eights, for example. And, you know, the the layer under that is your background, your culture, your gender, your socioeconomic stat uh status growing up and now, there's all kinds of other things that will also impact, right? Um, your beliefs and how your personality is expressed. We're only we're only two layers in uh here that we're talking about. So there's still so much complexity. There's so much that we're not talking about, but for the sake of using the framework, using the language, um, and I think I'm gonna have to sneeze and I cannot find my pause button. See if I can keep it down. Okay. Um, I think in the last episode, I had to pause it, probably paused it like 10 times, um, because I kept coughing. So I don't know what I don't know if it's allergies, I don't know what is going on, but I have been having um some sore throat, sneezing, all just some weird things. So anyway, um So I wanted to get into that level of depth today because I think that this is such a common dynamic that comes up. I wanted us to be able to understand it a little bit more and to have some insight about ourselves and potentially the person that maybe we keep butting heads with. And hopefully this will give us a starting point for what to ask them, some conversations to have. Hey, I learned this today. Um, I I could kind of see this in you. Do you relate to this? Does this feel true for you? This is what felt true for me. This is what I'm working on. Here's here's something that I realized that might be helpful if you did um more of, less of, instead of whatever that might be. And so even if the person doesn't know the Enneagram, hasn't listened to this podcast, regardless six or eight or whatever type you are, um having some of this to kind of bounce to kind of prompt those conversations can be really helpful. And uh like I said, it's such a common dynamic. We'll look at at doing more of these matchups. There's a couple others that come to mind. Um, but as a group, what the eights were had talked about um during a recent workshop is letting the sixes in on more information, on more why we're doing something when possible. And then the six understanding that, hey, as a leadership team, we're going to try to do that as much as we can, as often as we can, but we can't always do it. And so we need you to trust us um in those situations. And we talked about that being a growth opportunity. You know, we've we've hopefully built trust, we've showed you we care, we showed you that we're, you know, we want to do the right thing, we're always trying to do the right thing. Um, we're gonna take care of you. And at times we just may need a quick answer, we may need your help with something, we may need your buy-in with something. And uh to the extent that we can explain it, we will, but at times we're not gonna be able to. So um that was something that came out of that conversation as well that might also be applicable in your own dynamic. So if you happen to have this type 8 leadership and six teammate dynamic, heavy six team dynamic within your organization, department team, um, anything in here really resonate or anything additional that you would offer, I would love to hear from quote unquote the real world. Uh, I can share my experiences, I can share what certain books say, uh, but it's always just that much richer, that more helpful if we can pull other people's experiences and insights and and examples um from their from their situation and add to the conversation. So let me know. Um, there is a on our website, there's an easy mess way to message. Just it's enneagrammba.com forward slash contact. And then um, you know, we spend a lot of time, uh the whole episode, talking about this dynamic, but these are the sort of conversations and insights that come up, especially when we have time to do our group breakouts, whether it's a half day, a full day, um, some extended programming. Obviously, the longer that we have together, the more these conversations, um, the deeper that they can go, the more insight we can pull from them, um, and then the more ways that we can talk about applying them to your specific team. So I'm gonna invite you to check out those options over at enneagrammba.com. And with that, thank you so much for being here. Would love to hear any insight. If there is another dynamic that you uh would like to hear about sooner rather than later, you can also uh reach out, message us about that, and uh I'll try and get that on the calendar, enneagrammba.com forward slash contact. And uh, I'll see you in the next one.