SPEAKER_02 0:00

He T-Bone is already talking about how he wants to bring a little bit of the drama and make this a therapy session. And I said, I thought, oh, such a such a type eight. Bring the confrontation. Let's let's challenge me a little bit. So I I think I think you're on to something with that type eight.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

Which is so funny because he only wants confrontation with certain people, and it tends to be us.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Well, it's because I love you guys.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

I get to truly be myself and you're listening to the Enneagram at Work Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm looking forward to diving into this week's episode with you. All right. Well, welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram at Work Podcast. Today is an extra special episode because we not only have a guest, we have three guests. And this is going to be a really fun episode. Um, again, bringing kind of the real world to the Enneagram, taking the Enneagram out of the books and the theory and looking at how it kind of shows up in the real world, specifically in the real world workplace. And so today I am joined by uh the 3D team, uh the 3D dental team. And this was a group that I got to meet at their annual conference back in May 2025, depending on when you're listening to this. And I will I'll I'll say more about the group in just a minute, but I want to go ahead and bring in T-Bone, and I'm gonna have you share a little bit about yourself in a second. We have Megan and we have Meredith joining us. So um just so we can hear each other's voices, um, T-Bone, would you would you kick it off? Tell us what type you resonate the most with and what what role you play in this team dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Well, uh, I'm T-Bone. I'm a practicing dentist and owner of 3D dentists. Uh, and when I did the quiz, it says that I my go-to strategy is a type eight, striving to feel powerful. Eights have a desire to be strong and influential, to take action and protect themselves and others against injustices. So that's uh and and that's pretty accurate. You know, I I would tell you definitely it's accurate. And uh so I'm excited to have a little bit of open-air drama slash free therapy with my team. And let's, you know, let's I'm I'm all in. In all seriousness, I want to get better because what what I do recognize is that everybody has a different personality. And when you have people that you're really passionate with, that are in it to win it with you, that you do things day in and day out, they become more than just co-workers, they become like family. At least that's always been how I've approached things is to kind of be like family. So I love my family, and I I love uh both Meredith and Megan, and and we have a very unique dynamic in a sense, uh, because we have two businesses and different personalities. And so I just want to get better because I want to help, I want to, I want to serve them better and help uh make our businesses better, and that involves being like understanding what their languages are.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Well, and that's one of the things that uh we love about the work that we get to do is because we do spend so much of our lives in the workplace around our coworkers. So why not try to find tools like the Enneagram to better understand ourselves and to make those relationships um, you know, less stressful and you know, best case, more fun and enjoyable. So um, and then I I do have to, I'm gonna I'm gonna pick on you just a little bit already. But he T-bone is already talking about how he wants to bring a little bit of the drama and make this a therapy session. And I said, I thought, oh, such a such a type eight, bring the confrontation. Let's let's challenge me a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

So I I think I think you're on to something with that type eight, which is so funny because he only wants confrontation with certain people, and it tends to be us.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Well, it's because I love you guys. I get to truly be myself, and I get forgiven for some of the, you know, like you you have to be careful in a very professional setting with what you say or don't say to people. And it's always, at least for my personality, it's in my life, it's always been the ones you're the closest to are probably the ones that you overshare with or vent to and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

So yes, yes. Okay, well, we'll come back to some of that. Meredith, since um since we just heard your voice, let's bring you in. Would you share um what type you're resonating the most with um or types and um your role in this team dynamic?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Okay, so I am Meredith. Uh, I've worked at both the practice Raleigh Dental Arts for four years, and then I've been at 3D Dentists um as the business director for the last six years. And um my type, uh, according to this quick little test, is a type two. So um this this does resonate. They have a desire to be appreciated and deeply united with others, they're helping others shine. Um, superpowers or reading people and your unique ability to understand and emphasize with others.

unknown 5:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

So that's that's all fitting, but I've always been a three and past any of ground experiences.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Okay. And we'll we'll take into that a little bit more, but I think that's important to share. Um, we'll talk about those differences in just a minute. Um, it's not that crazy. Sometimes they're they seem kind of like opposites because you have the the type two who's sometimes known as like the helper, or ultimately they want to be connected. Um, and then you have the type three who's sometimes known as the achiever striving to feel outstanding, but there are a lot of overlaps. And one of those is kind of around wanting to be appreciated and recognized for all that you do. So we'll we'll kind of get into some some nuanced differences later. But thank you, thank you for being here. Um, and then we have last but not least, Megan. Let us know where you're at on the Enneagram uh and what your role is here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

So I am in the private dental office all the time. So I am a dental hygienist, but I um really just work with Dr. A in keeping his schedule full and perfect. Um so my my type was a type one, so a perfectionist. And as I was reading through this, I haven't done a whole lot of deep dives into this, but I unfortunately I feel like I see a lot of the negative traits of this. Um so like organized and disciplined, rational people, but critical and judgmental, um resentable. So like a lot of us rigid and uncompromising. Um so I don't want to be negative on myself, but I feel like that's why I got this category. We all have our own stuff. Yeah. So that's where I was at. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Well, and and right off the bat, I saw all the positives, and Megan saw the negatives. So that doesn't explain the two of us.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Okay, I'll make I'll make Megan feel better. Here's how I frustrate others being domineering, arrogant, stubborn, a my way or the highway approach.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Isn't that serious? It does track.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

I don't I I take offense to the arrogant word. I can 100% see how people uh can would can misconstrue that, but uh I I would say I'm hardly internally arrogant. Uh I would probably say I'm more unsure of myself than I am overly arrogantly confident.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

So yeah, arrogant, confident. Um, well, and I know before we hit record, um T-bone and Megan were talking about um nine and one, and they're there or not nine and one, eight and one. And there are several similarities. And I would just love to hear if this is true for you, and then I'll share the differences and see if you if you notice these. So this is a really common um like typing confusion, like am I an eight or am I a one that comes up? But um, because they both have kind of a vision of what is the right way. Um, a lot of times the one will say, What does the policy say or the rule or the law or whatever? And like that's the right way. And I'm gonna like I'm gonna stand on that line that that's the right way we should do it. Sometimes, to your point, Tivone, uh, eights also have a vision of a right way, but a lot of times it's who cares what the process says, it's my way. I think this is the right way, my way or the highway. Um, and then the other little difference is that type ones tend to be really politically correct most of the time. Um, and they're gonna be a little bit more thoughtful before they say something to to kind of process how is this going to be received? Is it am I saying it the right way? Am I saying it the perfect way or writing it the perfect way? And an eight, obviously, as somebody grows, they're they're gonna, this is will evolve, but stereotypical eights just kind of say, Well, I said what I said, you know, it's kind of on you how you want to take that. And um, I can't help it, you know, I can't help that's how you felt about what I said.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

I probably trend more to that in communication.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

That I just I said what I said.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yes. Okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

We're we've we'll we'll we'll dig into that a little bit more. Approval. Yes. Um, and for the type two slash three, what about the three, Meredith, that you had originally typed as? What uh what pieces of that um do you think resonated with you?

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Well, if you want me to read the glimpse, uh every part of it, uh adaptive, excelling driven, and image conscious.

unknown 10:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Image conscious for sure.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

And but adaptive for sure. I mean, my job, my people, they change day to day. The roles, you know, we just gotta go with it. Um things are we're trying to stay up with the technology and everything. And I feel like if you're not adaptive in this industry, it's you're behind. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Yes. And one of the things about a three um that tends to be a core quality is their uh appreciation or desire for efficiency. And so this was sometimes the nuance between a two and a three. Um a two, you know, we'll typically take the time to how's your day? How you doing? Um, and really genuinely want to know. And not that threes can't do that or don't care about people, but they tend to think, hey, we have an agenda. Let's start on time, let's follow the agenda, let's make sure we end on time. Do you have um, is there one way or the other that that resonates more with you?

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Uh probably a mix of the two of those. Okay. But definitely um, we're here to do something. Let's get started, kind of thing. Or probably lead more till three.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Okay. Um, T-bone, so you lead this large conference. You have this group, you have the 3D group, you have the dental practice. I know you called yourself out with all of the overuse strengths of the eight, but there are also a lot of great strengths with the eight, the directness, the confidence, the ability to instill that confidence in others, um, being bold. A lot of times they're very um fun-loving and incredibly big-hearted. Um, out of your strengths list, I'm kind of putting you on the spot. That's okay. Um, what do you see? What are some things that you see that have helped you be successful in managing these different things? Um, and you know, along your career path to getting here?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

You know, I would probably say um the directness has been uh the biggest strength and a little bit of weakness as well. Uh, one, because sometimes when you you really want something or you know that this is the way to get there, you'll you'll hear a lot of differing opinions. And sometimes you just have to be direct that this is the way we're gonna go. You know, my saying, and I I don't say this in a mean way, but my saying is it's ultimately it's my name on the door. So let's just go with it's I'll die on my own sword, is kind of how I look at it. So let's go this way. But sometimes the directness can certainly rub a lot of people or some people the wrong way, because you know, I I do have a lot of feelings for people, and I do feel, you know, my what my mom says this is very therapy, I guess, but what my mom said to me probably in the six months ago, she says, your mouth uh doesn't represent what your heart feels. Sometimes your mouth speaks too fast, is really what she was saying. And and uh so my heart is very big and I do care a lot for people, but I I do care to achieve probably more uh than sometimes they care about people's feelings.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Okay. And and uh there's a you know, there's a place and time for that. It's uh somebody, uh another fellow eight was saying, you know, I I care about people, we just can't sing Koobaya every day. We have we have things to do. And so it is kind of just finding that that balance, kind of dialing it in. Um, so one of the things uh that we talked about in Nashville when we were we did the overview of the types was um how others drive us crazy, those workplace pet peeves. And um, I'm just curious if there's anything that you remember that stood out about what drives you crazy, or if there's just a a really clear pet peeve that you have, and we'll see if it kind of ties to your Enneagram type.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, I I have lots of pet peeves, and I have lots of things that drive me crazy.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

You don't close the doors and the hallways.

unknown 14:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Like this.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yeah, why would I need to be careful what I'm the can of worms I'm about to open?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Like it rubs off on all of us too.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

It's funny.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Like I like to be like I like to be, I like whole I like to hold to commitments. So if I say I'm gonna be there at 645, I want to be there at 645. If we say we're gonna start at this time, I want to start at this time. Uh you know, it's it's uh those things. Like, for example, I don't like I don't like us or any team members walking in and out of the front door of our practice. Uh we have a we have a team entrance, and that's where we should come in and out. The front entrance is for the patients. I don't like patients to see us coming in and out if we're late or if we're leaving early or make them feel like I hate it at restaurants when they start mopping up and I'm still trying to eat my meal. Right. Those kind of things drive me nuts. And so I don't I don't like the I don't you never go out to eat. I know I definitely don't go out to eat anymore. So for sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Well, okay, so here's something that's kind of interesting is um the the type eights are striving to feel powerful. And it's really sometimes that's like, oh, I don't know if I like that, but it's really the power to produce a result. And so as you're talking about whether it's the doors being shut or people being on time, um, you know, sometimes people think time management, you know, type ones have a monopoly on being on time preferences, but it it goes back to that core logic and it's hey, we have a result to get to. We have a goal that we want to hit, and so we need people to be on time. Um, and so as you were talking about that, that that kind of made me think of that. Um, it's it's it's kind of what is below that that desire, that that need or that pet peeve in this case.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, the other thing I I'm sorry, I apologize. No, go ahead. Um, the other thing that I would say that I I I kind of it drives you asked me what drives me crazy and what I struggle with is is one of the areas I struggle is when people don't catch on as quick as as me. And and I don't know if that's just by by cultural nature or I just like at some point I'm like, how can you not do two plus two equals four? It's a bad example, but you know, like like I can do math in my head and and I can see people like trying to figure it out. I'm like, oh my God, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yes. Okay, so that is very common. And you type eights aren't the only one that have this feeling, um, but that is common. Uh, I don't know if we talked about this during the workshop or not, but eights kind of have this just do it. Just just do it, like the Nike, like just do it. And if you don't know how to do it, try and do it and then fix it on as you go along. We don't need to have a meeting about it. Whereas other types are like, wait a minute, I have questions. I have questions, I have concerns. Did we think this through? And that can be incredibly irritating to somebody who just wants to get it, just get started. Just do it, just catch on the first time.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

Um T-Bone puts people on ticket systems that ask too many questions. Okay, that's a good example.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

I was just about to ask if you see that show up and do you have an example? Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Um, if people ask too many questions during a course, they'll be like, you have three tickets left, use them wisely.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

I'll I'll answer all the questions, but this let's let's get through the material. They'll probably get answered on their own.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Um, okay. The other thing I want to ask about an eight, and feel free to to chime in, Meredith or Megan, if you see it, um if you have any good examples of this for T-Bone, but one of the other strengths that um a lot of type eight leaders have is the ability to um thrive in a challenge. And not that they go out and look for drama or challenges necessarily, but it's if the food isn't right at the restaurant, they're gonna be comfortable sending it back. If a vendor didn't get something right, they have no problem calling and letting them know. Um if somebody didn't do something correctly, it's hey, it's not uh, you know, it's not an emotional issue. I'm just I just need you to fix it. Just, you know, do it differently. And so it's um whatever challenge is happening, they tend to just kind of keep going and have both the confidence and the the energy, the passion to to keep everybody else going through that challenge and and aren't afraid of difficult conversations. Do you see that in yourself, T-Bone, or Megan America? Do you see that in him?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

I'll let them answer.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Yeah, I mean, you you really have like two full-time jobs that you split into a regular week, and it's always like a fire over here, a fire over there. I mean, not so much Meredith, she's pretty organized, but um I I just think you really thrive in in a challenge. Like he stays engaged. Oh, I mean, yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Yesterday he had difficult conversations with a company that wasn't delivering, had no problem with it. And then today he's like, was I a little tough? I'm like, yeah, we're probably not at the top of their list.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Well, I said what I said, you know? Yeah, it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

But to to the point of getting better.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

But he just wanted to be clear.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

But the point of getting better is the reason I asked was I because clearly I felt I was probably a little too harsh, but I I just like I just I want to work with them, but I can't. I the the structure that we have created currently isn't win-win. And so I just don't want to keep doing things that that don't benefit everybody.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

I and and I think that some of us have a really hard time speaking up in those situations, and so we can find a lot of inspiration and you can be an example for having those needed conversations. Um, what's the saying? Clear is kind of versus nice. Yes, yes. Um, the other thing, and then we'll we'll move, I'm gonna move on to you, Megan. I have some questions for you. Um, there was a type 8 sales leader, and we were going um around after a workshop, and everybody had a chance to share like the strengths that they saw in their coworkers. And he had said, Oh man, I don't even want to hear what my team was gonna say about me. I don't know if they can say anything good. I'm so hard on them. But somebody said, Um, I really appreciate that when I'm having a hard time, a challenge, I can come into your office, I can sit down, I can tell you about it, and I feel confident that you're gonna help me take care of it with that confidence, with that, like, I'm not gonna back down, with the passion to get through a difficult situation. And that manager, he was like, wow, I didn't realize that they that they saw me like that. So there's a lot of benefits too that that kind of spill over into your team, having that ability to speak directly and to be clear and sometimes clear as kind, like you're saying, always clear as kind. Um, so Megan, okay, so we're here maybe a one or an eight. Curious, what are some of the workplace pet peeves? So I know for an eight, um, they're pet peeves kind of beating around the bush, sugarcoating the truth, um, being micromanaged, or having to micromanage others, um, overthinking versus doing. Let's see, what are some of the others? Um, getting perceived as controlling. And then some of the pet peeves as a type one are around people who break the rules, late to meetings, not following the process or the procedures, making excuses when a mistake is made, um, not being responsible or accountable for those mistakes. Um, those are some of the kind of the theory, Enneagram theory. Anything in there jump out at you or or what should we know about some of your top workplace pet peeves?

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Yeah, so definitely the beating around the bush, you know, I I like direct communication. I don't enjoy most of micromanagement or giving it. Um I think I feel similarly to the T-bone and the kind of like let's go hurry up. Not run. I mean it is rushing. It's probably rushing others, but like catch up, let's go. Just let's just jump in in my big one.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. And then um Meredith. So as a type two, some of those uh pet peeves are around getting left out of meetings or events. Um people sometimes taking advantage of the the help uh that or the the additional work that they're willing to do for somebody, their generosity, um, making decisions without them being considered or the impact on the rest of the team. And this is a big one that I hear from a lot of twos is wait a minute, this is a huge decision. Have we slowed down to think how the impact on the people um so twos are usually twos, nines are asking those kind of questions. And then threes pet peeves are around missing deadlines, uh unnecessary meetings, very much this could have been an email type of mentality, uh wasting their time, being long-winded. I don't know if I said this also during the training, but I I say a lot of threes um out of all the types have the hardest time with like team building team training activities because it feels like this has nothing to do with my goal. I need to I have things to do I have clients to call on. And then expecting them to spend time dealing with your feelings. Those are just a couple from uh Enneagram theory anything in there stand out for you or what we should know about your workplace pet peeves.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Yeah um I I did a training the other week and it was about like taking clarity breaks. And so when you said, you know, it asked is everybody doing these weekly you should be doing them during the day and I'm like I can't do that. I have things to do. You know I can't I can't just sit there and have a break. I got I got things to be doing. So that really resonated um but then a lot of the the twos do as well um I I feel like I spend a lot of time with the people on our team training helping um staying engaged I guess I try not to micromanage but I try to stay engaged with what people are doing. And so I feel like that's uh but a lot at the same time I'm like couldn't you just texted this to me? Why did you need to call me for this?

SPEAKER_02 24:41

So yeah okay okay all right we're still we're still filling out the two and the three um I'm curious uh so T-Bone you have talked about your own growth and just some things that have shifted ways that you've grown is there anything that you would add to things that you've noticed that you know as we talk about an eight for example and some of those qualities um a lot of times people will say well I might I maybe used to do that um five years ago but I've been through therapy of you know whatever and and I'm I'm kind of I'm I've grown through that so that isn't true anymore. Is there anything like that for you and in big ways that you've seen that you've grown and we'll keep it we'll keep it to the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah um you know I I think as you as you mature in life you get you get a little bit more conscious of people's feelings and I know sometimes it may not come across that way but definitely you become more conscious of people's feelings uh you you take an extra half second before you talk so um so that that's probably for me the biggest thing and and I'm more conscious of trying to understand people uh uh and understanding their different types uh so that I can tailor my messaging or tailor my personality uh to them I'm not I don't want to say like I want to tailor to them but you I hope you guys what I'm saying is is I can't just be my there's some people I just can't be very direct with. You've got to you've got to add a little sugar coating to it. So so those are kind of things that uh over time I don't know if it's through growth or just through a little bit of age and experience uh that that comes along but that's probably uh the main thing and and you know the I I can't run as hard as I used to I'm not talking about physically run I'm just talking about work run but both yeah but both yes for sure I can't do that as as I I don't actually I might be able to run better today than I did 10 years ago but um yeah so that and so so I'm I get annoyed easier uh and I have less patience uh with people and I don't know if that's a matter of I don't tolerate it as well or I'm just so stretched and running two different businesses uh that would be full time probably and each business would be full time in most situations uh that that I just don't have time uh or the bandwidth to be able to to to to tolerate some of that.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Okay. Actually I have a kind of a follow-up question to that I I know as a type eight's leadership style is known as the commander and I know being the you know the the owner of these businesses leading these teams in in the role that you're doing I know that you can't do it all. So sometimes for our eights sometimes our threes sometimes ones um letting go and allowing other people to do things and to trust them to do it is really difficult um because you can probably do it faster you probably can do it better and it's just easier if you do it but I I know that's a great recipe for burnout. So what are some things um for others who are maybe struggling with that anything that you've done that has helped you let go some delegate a little better well um I would tell you that I in in I've done a decent job of what you're talking about there.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Okay I I would argue that I haven't done a good enough job of of uh of delegating and all those things it's still what holds our businesses back to a certain degree but for me trust is is so important and that's why one of the tendencies I happen to see around me is the people that I do delegate to have been around me a a good amount of time uh I develop that trust I I develop a a level of of um some cushion to where if it isn't exactly the way I want it I I know that their heart is in the right place. They're like Megan like Megan and I have been butting heads for a few days maybe a few weeks uh from different things but she said something to me yesterday that stuck out she says hey she said dude that's what I know she's she's she's uh she's angry with me she says we're on the same team I'm on your team uh like almost like I know that but I to in her case I did did need a reminder that you know we are on the same page we've been at this 14 15 years together uh that uh we're we're on the same team and uh sometimes and and I value that very much uh to be able to delegate I don't know if I answered your question or just did my own therapy session there.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

No, that's great. Yeah no that's great. And then we did that um well Megan let let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

So um and I can also one thing I do want to say I I would I want you to go where you're going but of of the two I here's what I want to say because I I want to some put some attention on on them a little bit because I think it's easy on these conversations to when it's a strong leader like myself to get the conversation there. But really it's the people next to us not even behind us that really get make us shine and and Megan and Meredith have done a great job of helping me shine but I the insight I would give is Megan and I butt heads like so like like she said something like uh one of her other teammates says are you going to get fired and I and in my mind like God that's like so far away from the truth. But but to externally to people they see us butt heads and I'd love us to unpack that a little bit and then on Meredith I have a tendency to hurt her feelings uh easily and and and and I'm like God you've been with me so long at this point like like and and she probably in her you know even though she's been with me less than Megan she's probably spent more time uh directly with me uh and and still at this stage I I hurt her feelings so I I you know those are the things that I noticed that I do want to get better at and also I think um people in my position should definitely understand that you you know I I'm the reason I bring this up is I wonder how many people I've lost along the way who could be Megan than Meredith because I didn't understand their personality type but they never got to the stage where we could work together in a way that created a positive environment.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yeah I mean that's very self-aware. And like like we were talking about I think Megan you were talking about your your uh overuse strengths list but we all have that and it looks worse when it's our own but we all have our own crap you know um so uh but that's very very self-aware okay Meredith I'm gonna come to you I got I got some questions about what he just said and then some additional ones but Megan I I want to ask you um kind of from two different angles I got some questions one kind of managing up and then your own leadership style. So um you know right now we don't know are you an eight are you a one? It doesn't you know doesn't matter right at this moment but I one of the things that I will hear from eights and sometimes ones um uh is that the the text will say a lot of times that eights are natural leaders and they're confident leaders and so to be led for them to be led is really difficult. But what I hear from eights is that no, I can absolutely be a team player I can absolutely be led, but I need to feel confident in the person that is leading me. And so I'm just is there anything that you agree with on that do you see that dynamic dynamic with the two of you it sounds like the story that uh Tivon was just sharing is that like hey we can I trust that we can have hard conversations and I'm not going to get fired. Um which is really important to people who value obviously direct communication because hey I don't have to like it but I feel safe if I know where I stand with you.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Yeah no I mean I I definitely think I feel like we have a safe space at work. I think the the problem um with my job and my personality is it so much of it is is just me. Like I can work by myself um my tasks are mine. I don't have to like mered it's so great with everybody, anybody any situation and I can kind of go in my room and like grind it out. And I do love our team like I love everybody. The directness hurts feelings and that's been something I've been working on for years. Dr. A made the comment we have a new manager in the practice that's a man and he said that I think you do better with male leadership, which I don't know if that's something that I need therapy. I don't know I don't feel like I don't feel catty with women um but I can see how that would I can see how the way I work could be a um room for improvement when others are incorporated.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

I have a I have another uh client who's a type eight woman in the corporate world and she has said something similar and she said it's it's not about like man or woman necessarily it's just I use so much energy during the day trying to say the politically correct thing or the soft thing or not hurt someone's feelings. And so when I'm in um a meeting or in a one-on-one with somebody who kind of communicates like me, it is just such a relief because I can speak freely and I don't have to use up so much brain power thinking am I going to hurt this person's feelings? So I don't know if you feel that at all but I thought oh that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

I do yeah I do I um I just would prefer super and it's we are a more female dominated profession and there's just a lot of emotion and um not saying what you need you know yeah yeah yeah just tell tell me what you need which is so funny because this is how Megan is with the team but with patience she is the exact the exact opposite which is what we always we always have a laugh about. With the patience she is just the sweetest most loving kindest person and we walk by her door and we're like who are you it's not real um no it's no no let's say that it's real it's it's your heart it's your heart yeah so I I also feel like we probably should have preempted our relationships a little bit better. So like we've all worked together I've been I joined them 10 years ago. So Megan and I have worked together for 10 years and I would say we have so many of similar qualities and then we are exact opposite at the same time. And we're like sisters.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

We're best friends um we like each other outside of work but man at work we fight like sisters I mean that's that's sometimes that's it's healthy you know you need to to say those hard things um because they're there anyway and they just create weird tension and awkward environment. So to be able just to hash it out real quick and you know move on.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Meredith I know one time uh I know one time sorry I know one time T Bone looked at Megan he said I know you did this you go apologize to her and make it right yeah oh that's great I think I think another unique thing about our uh the this dynamic is you know in a way we fight for each other's time uh at the end like it's two separate businesses but they're very they're somewhat intertwined and you know like like like again I'm not we both loved all the businesses and want to help the businesses but at the same time we're trying to do our role right yeah and and one business gets in the way of the other business. So sometimes Meredith's need for me gets in the way of me Megan being able to say yes to patients and me being at the office and some of course and then it often it's the very verse like Meredith wants me to do something and be available for something but then you know my my desire to you know sustain and fulfill you know our patient care uh kind of gets in the way as well and that's where I believe while even though it's two separate businesses those two have to interact uh and and coincide and work very well together and and that's that's where you know their clashes and or their personality styles become very important as well.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

It does okay and I'm so glad you said that because at the end of the day um the Enneagram is really a problem resolution framework. And so if everything's going great, then you know just it's a fun thing to learn about. But it really comes in handy when you're trying to figure out oh why did we butt heads or what happened at this conversation or what what's going on here to kind of dig into and see. And this is a really interesting uh you know dynamic. And then you add in that insight of the the types and it can be really helpful to understand where that other person is coming from or see the world uh kind of through their lens. Megan before we um move on I said I question for Meredith and I do, but real quick I had asked T-Bone about um his some of the workplace growth that he has noticed in himself. So as a type eight uh they call the the growth arrow um it goes to the type two which is really interesting because that tends to be the one that they neglect the most the striving to feel connected and um you know nurturing people and um you know sitting with hard feelings and that sort of thing. But the an eight can absolutely do that as they grow.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

And then depending on where you land with your type the type the growth for the type one is the seven striving to feel excited spontaneity joy fun looking for the best sometimes breaking the rules um and just figuring it out along the way um what what's something that and it doesn't have to be one of those two things but what's something what's a way that you've seen yourself really grow the most um or grow uh in in the workplace I you know I wish I had a great answer for that I um I would love to like be more connected I think it more is like a a work in progress like with the team but I kind of feel like both of those like find more joy together um it's just so easy to like yeah go what do you think there you know I I I think Megan's very hard on herself um number one I that I think that's a personality trait certainly for herself but here's what I will say as much as we give Megan a hard time for being direct and being rough around the edges with other team members because you know she like herself she said I just like get in the room and hustle and grind she'll be the first person to advocate for others. That's what I've noticed her growth area over the last few years. She's always she's willing to I say she's willing to give her shirt off her back for somebody else like she'll say hey instead of me getting a raise why don't we have somebody else get a raise this year or do things like that and and I I think uh I think those are the things that I've seen and Megan grow. In fact I tried to get Megan to be our office manager leader uh because I see that in her uh but you know she keeps turning she kept turning me down.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

But what did you say? What was your response to that?

SPEAKER_00 40:31

I said you gotta learn you gotta learn how to get along with people a little bit more you said if it weren't for your inner personal skills you could run this whole damn thing. I mean it's a fair but but the inner personal skills is misleading in a sense because she cares for people she just has it like she just it's it's they're just not ready to hear it from the way she says it. It's just no different than me.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Yeah is it what your mom said the heart and the mouth yeah yeah very similar.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

Yeah I think the way you said um they're just not ready to hear it the way she says it because I was thinking earlier like how T-Bone talked about how they butt heads all the time and we very rare like yes you've hurt my feelings but we very rarely fight or like butt heads I guess when I say we're fighting it's because I'm upset. Yeah because I've heard her feelings not because we're actually fighting like last week he didn't introduce a one sided fight. Last week he didn't introduce me to like a big company that came that like I'm taking all the sales for and I'm like you didn't even introduce me do you even I'm like I don't even think you want me to be good at my job.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Um I'm like I'm like how do they not know you're like you're the person that is my right end person that like like how do they not know that that you're you know but it's a new company and so I'm like you didn't even introduce me.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

So I just feel like I can say the same things that Megan says to him and we don't argue because I I'm not a confrontational person. And that that and he thinks about the way he gives it back to me is not the same way he would give it back to Megan.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah definitely not I I I do adjust the way I say things to Meredith uh differently than I say things like to Megan.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

And then he adjusts down even more like what always drives me crazy is I'll be like you would have said something to me and Megan or you won't say something to them and he's like well I have to wear my kid gloves with them and I'm like they're 44 years old. What do you mean? Or he'll say something like they're not part of the family they're a team member they're not family.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

I can't say that to them I'm like well I'll go say something to them because I care so much and I feel like he deserves the best of the best the best of the best of people and I'm like they need to know they just say it nicely yeah he's like I can't so the things just don't get said at all interesting interest and and um that is so true and uh something that a lot of people you know really struggle with and I I I'm sure you don't get it right all the time but just to be aware of this person needs me to speak to them this way this person you know needs me to give it to them in five words or less and to do that and it does take a lot of effort and um getting to know people and taking the time and it does take months years to get to that level of understanding of what what people need. And um the Enneagram is one way to kind of get a little sneak peek into there all kinds of other things tools are are available and then just just spending time with somebody. Meredith let me ask you um so for um your kind of growth in the in the workplace for our type twos it is around um being a little bit more direct um speaking up for twos tend to be really good about standing up for other people but when it comes to them themselves. They sometimes struggle to ask for what they need and sometimes expect other people to read their mind. And they want to be appreciated for the good things that they do for others, the work that they do for others. And a growth for a type two is hey, I'm going to do this because it makes, you know, it makes me happy and I may not get a thank you. Type threes, some of their growth is around delegating, slowing down a little bit, allowing other people to come along with them. Not to say that they shouldn't be efficient anymore, but are there opportunities to connect more with people? So those are kind of some of the highlights of those two types. Anything in there that I said resonate or just a general how you've noticed that you've grown over the years in the professional.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

Yeah. Definitely I've become more of a two, I think, as I've grown. Like I started more as a three and I've become more of a two. And that's kind of just happened over when we started, when I started with 3D, it was just me and T Bow. So we pretty much we just did it all. It was easier for us to just do it. So that was a hard mentality.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

There was nobody else to do it. It was just us.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

It was yeah, but it was just easier if we just did it all. So then as we brought people on, I was still like, I can do this, I can do this, I don't need them. Um, and just in the last year or so, we've grown even more. And I've really had to focus on helping other people. Like, we can't do it alone. We can't get, we've gotten to where we've gotten, but we won't get to the next step without. Um, and so that's taken a lot of time and training people um to take on the things, doing things the way we want them done, I guess, like the 3D way.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

So it sounds like Meredith, you work a lot with other people. And then Megan, you work a lot with the processes and operations protocols. Well, I do both.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Technically, Megan works with more people than Meredith does. Technically.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Okay, okay. Yeah, I just said that client coworkers. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Clients, they're people coming in to spend money and yeah, and I still deal with all the doctors and the sales and all of that too. But um I have definitely devoted more time to our people in the last year um than we have in the past.

unknown 46:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Can I make a comment on this real quick? An observation from you know, as a business owner leader, I think one of the things that that people like Meredith, and I'm I'm not I don't mean this in a negative way necessarily. One of the things I see that they that means that's my soft way of saying they're all right. I love you, but but um is it's a it's it's a compliment, okay, is that it's really it's it's an area of growth that people like Meredith have to overcome. Is like I I try to tell Meredith that as our organization grows, and we go from just me, like I go from one team member, Meredith, to now having six team members or seven team members, and some and many working all over the country, even like one of the things that they have to grow is is not being seen as the most important person or feeling like like, hey, I'm I'm not trying I'm not purposely trying to leave you out, but if if my business is only dependent on you being able to do everything, we can only get so far. So I I always tell Meredith like there's gonna be times in this next phase of growth where you feel irrelevant or not important or trying to get pushed aside, and it could be nothing further from the truth. It's it's that you've just got to believe, and that's to me where the family part, the trust part comes in that we've grown together over these last 10 years. They will always be continued growth for you. But step one for something bigger for you is to get everything that you do off your plate to almost feel like you there's you have no value, to only find out that now you have space to be even more valuable in things. And I would tell you that I have seen Meredith I've seen her struggle with this, but I've also seen her come to terms or come to grips with uh that part of it.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah, and and I will say that's a I will say that is a common um struggle for a three for sure. And I can see it for the the the type twos, um because you are so good at what you do, and it can feel weird to s have somebody else take the thing that you're so good at or the things. Um, and it can feel that way. But to your point, T Bone, it's like, well, now you have time for other things for you to get excellent at and great at. Um okay, so I want to just uh I want to talk about two quick topics real quick, and I would love any insight. Um, Enneagram, we can infuse the Enneagram in here if it makes sense. Um, one of the things the groups will say that this insight about themselves and others has helped them with is when it comes to having to make decisions as a group. So I'm just curious, um, and I don't know if it ever is the dynamic where the three of you are making a decision, but I would I would love just to kind of hear how um that that decision-making chemistry happens and anything interesting or things that you have learned to get better at making decisions more effectively, quicker, with less hurt feelings, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Well, I'll I'll interject. I I always have something to say. Um uh I've learned to listen to people uh more. That doesn't mean I that doesn't mean I've learned to actually listen, like actually take into account what they're saying.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

But I it's still a man in one ear and out the other.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

No, no, it's in there, it's in there. Uh but I I have I have learned that, and for me, this all really boils down to trust. Um, I have learned that uh when people are on your team and they're on your side, uh they they're giving you insight that has tremendous value. They they're seeing things from your blind spots or seeing things from their their lens or their personality types, if we look at it that way, because not every one of our customers, in fact, the majority of our customers in both businesses are not my personality. You know, uh so I have to I have to understand and learn that the personalities around me see things in dip from a like I see things from a very black and white direct level. Meredith sees things in color and from a very emotional level. Uh, and so you have to understand, I have I've learned that you gotta learn to take that insight that they bring to the decision process. But at the same time, I've I've also learned, I'm learning, this is one thing I'm struggling with as we've as we get bigger, is that ultimately the decision sometimes can't be democracy or democratic uh because there's too many different personalities in the room and they all see everybody sees it through their own lens.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Um, one of the uh I was I was telling you before we hit record, I was talking to one of your members of of the uh 3D dental group, and uh she identifies most as a type nine, and their leadership style is known as a consensus builder because they are so good at bringing everybody's voice to the table, allowing everybody to be heard. But on the flip side, to your point, uh T-bone, that can really slow things down. You can never get, you can, it can be hard to get things done because you're so worried about everybody having a voice and weighing all the decisions. So it is just a constant, you know, dial dialing it in kind of thing. Um, Megan or Meredith, anything that you would add to your kind of decision making process or how the how you all work together to make decisions?

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Yeah, I mean, I think you go ahead. You go. Megan, go first.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

I I think um Meredith's level of considerate, like anything she says to me is really valuable because she isn't confrontational and um like I know she needs it, so quietly lets me steal a lot of his attention when I need it and take up days that would typically be hers. Um so it's a goal of mine to let you have your time. Um, I don't know, I feel like I step on it.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

I think, like he said, we're we know we're family. So like I look at it as like I'm like, well, if she's taking him, then it's a good case. She really needs him. Like she wouldn't just bring him to sit there. I don't think we're ever like against each other or anything like that. Like she just doesn't want him to come to 3D, so she brings him in the office, kind of a thing. Like that's never crossed my mind. Um, I'm surprised she doesn't send him to me more often just to get rid of him.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

But um, this week she probably wanted to.

SPEAKER_04 53:06

I think that we all I think make this when it comes to decision making, because we do still work together um pretty regularly, even though we're in separate companies technically. Um, when it comes to decision making, I think we all don't really have an issue there. We know each other so well.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Yeah, yeah. That I that definitely helps um having having that time. Um sometimes groups will talk about, man, I they you know, they just jump into a decision and I need some more information, you know, exactly what are we doing? How are we gonna get started?

SPEAKER_04 53:41

We have one girl, we have a girl on our team like that.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Okay, okay, yeah. And it can it it can really bother the people who are like, let's just jump in. But on the flip side, it can really bother people. I'm like, well, we can get there. We just we just gotta go. Oh okay. So as we wrap it up, um we talk a lot about uh using the Enneagram and the team dynamic, creating your own organization or or business's version of a dream team. And uh I'm just curious how you would define a dream team. What makes a really effective team and ideally an effective and also happy team that gets along? Um, what it what do you think are some important parts of that?

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Man, I I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I'd probably want a bunch of eights, you know, and and let's just go and get it.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

You'd kill each other.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Probably, but I've never worked with lots of eights, right? So I don't have that experience of what that's like. Uh, but I would be like, let's just go to work, let's get the work done, let's and then we can leave and you know, we can be family after work. Like, you know, my personality outside of work is very different than my personality at work because when I'm at work, I just want to be at work, you know, I just want to do the work. And um, and so like I I'm probably not the best person to ask that question to. But what I will say in some insight is a great team kind of has uh a great, let me say this differently. A great leader surrounds himself with people that have some that tolerate or put up with the their personality, but have have the missing components of their personality. Like I'm I'm not necessarily the most organized person, so I have a Meredith who is more organized. Uh I I'm not necessarily, you know, I'm not necessarily the most detail-oriented person, but I have Megan who is more detail-oriented than me. Uh, so you have to you have to build that around you uh to to actually accomplish more. Uh so probably that's that's one of the things that I've noticed over time is that that if you if you do have too many eights or too many XYZs, similar personnel types, you kind of almost in a way repel each other, or you just don't get enough done to to build a meaningful business.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Like that. Anything else you would add to that, Meredith or Megan?

SPEAKER_04 56:05

No, I think I I like working with different people. I like um that I think we need all different types of people. We need people that you know want to get down to the nitty-gritty and and can't move forward without it because otherwise we would, you know, we wouldn't have workbooks and all these little things that we need. Um so we I think as we've grown and we've gotten a bunch of different people, it's been really it's different. Sometimes because what's funny is T-Bone and I are still totally different people, but we tend to like, I don't know if these numbers have anything to do with it, but we tend to like the same people. Um and we tend to friends, everything. Um, we tend to like the same type of personalities, the same people.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

You know, when we have what she's saying.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

And then you that means you do too. But no, but like when we have a group of 30 doctors come in, we could pick two people that we like in the group. We'll probably pick the same two people. Um, which is just kind of funny. But we can, you know, we can look at each other just like they're so weird, but we but we need some weirdness in our group because we're you know, like because we're not we're gonna need some weirdness. Uh so I I like working with different kinds of people. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

I mean, I just I think it would be it would be interesting to do this. I think I would love to learn people's growth paths. Like, what are we on, you know, not from a weakness standpoint, but I think that's a good thing to know, like where we fall short.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

Well, and uh what are the do you guys ever use strength finders? I'm sure you've heard of it. Um, or the big five. It it focuses on your your strengths, which is so wonderful because I think uh sometimes we can be really hard on ourselves. So it's great to be reminded of those strengths. Um, but it can also be really beneficial for our our growth professionally and personally when we understand those blind spots. So to your point, it's like, oh man, it kind of sucks facing those things sometimes, but it's it can be really valuable in the long run, both for our own development and then our relationship. So I love that you said that. Um, I'm gonna give you a chance to for anybody who is either in the Raleigh area looking for a new dental practice to be uh served by, I want to hear where people can learn more. If we have any dentists that happen to be listening that aren't already a part of the 3D group, I want to hear where people can learn more about that. Um before that though, is there anything that you would like to say that I haven't asked you about that would make this episode feel complete?

SPEAKER_00 58:56

You know, I I I would just tell people that that uh when I first learned about Inea Graham, and I I read more on it, uh, you know, I'm a Cliff Notes guy. I'm not read the whole book guy. Um, is it was it really was insightful and impactful to me to understand where I failed and where I've succeeded in life and and and where I'm where I'm short to achieve some of my dreams. Uh so personality, as much, as much as I hate this stuff, as much as I I consider it foo-foo and all that stuff, it's it's so important as you're building a more meaningful business or meaningful family, even to understand that even like we even within my family, my the my kids are totally different from each other. Uh and understanding their personality types uh will help me be a better father at some point in time.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

I think it answers so many questions about people too. Um, like, you know, T Bundle be like, oh, they're asking so many questions. And I'm like, well, yeah, they're uh two or whatever it is, you know? Um so, or they're doing this. Well, duh, they're a so-and-so. Like that just it tracks, it makes sense. And so I think it answers a lot of questions that we have about people and understanding who they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

Yeah, I I think I was telling you, I was just talking to somebody earlier, and they're um, the person that runs their practice is a type seven, and there was some frustrations among the team about you know all the overused strengths that this person had. But then they realized, oh, this is where this person is coming from. And actually that they have all these good things that we didn't notice, and we wouldn't have, you know, XYZ if that wasn't their personality. And so it does just offer kind of a different perspective and an appreciation for the strengths that they do have. Um, and still gonna drive you insane, I'm sure, sometimes, but just a deeper appreciation for those good things. Um, okay, so let's see, Megan, since you're running the practice, where where can people learn more about um the practice if they happen to be local to the Raleigh area? Yeah, so Raleigh Dental Arts.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Um, we've got a great website, Instagram, all the things. Um, but our our website's phenomenal. We've got great reviews, uh, almost all of them. It's just it's been a great practice.

unknown 1:01:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

She's the direct connection if you want to get to see me. That's that's right. But my family's like, how do I get my my friends to see you? I'm like, just call me, just contact Megan.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

Contact Megan. Okay, okay, good to know. Good to know. And then Meredith, what about um getting involved with the 3D group? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

So we train dentists, we do clinical CE, business coaching, uh live patient implant training, and we're at 3d-dentists.com. And my email is Meredith at 3d-dentists.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

Okay, and I I have to I have to make a plug for the summit. I know it's uh a ways away, but that's how I that's where I saw you all is at the summit in Nashville. And I have told so many people, I said this was probably the most fun group I have ever been a part of. And it just started immediately. You know, I think my session started at 9 a.m. You guys were going, you were popping champagne, you were sharing fun photos from the night before. So, you know, get it. I'm telling you, you know, get in. Look up this 3D group. You saw us on day two. We were serious on day one. You are serious, and I'm sure that you I'm sure that there is a lot of value in addition to just being a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Well, Sarah, you fit right in uh for you know, again, not try to blow smoke, but for others looking for an amazing speaker that connects with the audience, that delivers it professionally and fun. Uh, Sarah was fantastic. Uh one of our you had great reviews. And uh so you were fantastic. Like it's it's nuts that uh that that you know that people uh have that opportunity to get you to, especially you you live close by to Nashville, so uh you should definitely have Sarah come speak at your event or even in your practice. Uh it's well worthwhile.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Well, I received that. Thank you. Thank you for that. You guys were you guys were a great group. Um, and I appreciate your time today. I know this is at the end of a long workday, so thank you very much. Um, listeners, please reach out, let them know what you're taking away from this episode, let them know if you can relate to anything they said about their types, about the work dynamic. I know our guests always enjoy hearing from you. Um, with that, thank you. And listeners, thank you for being here, and we'll see you in the next one. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

Bye.