SPEAKER_00 0:03

You're listening to the Enneagram at Work Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm looking forward to diving into this week's episode with you. I'm so glad you're back with us. Or if you are listening for the first time, welcome. I hope to be say, well, be saying, be able to say welcome back at some point in the future to you as well. Today is a coworker chemistry episode, and this is where we take two different types and match them up and look at ways that they make a really great team. And then we'll look at some ways that they can potentially uh there can be some potential friction between these two. And as all as I say with all of these, uh, we are talking theory when we do these. Um there people are gonna have obviously really good synergy and really um potentially struggle um in their work relationship outside of just the Enneagram, but we're going to use the Enneagram to give us some perspective about each of the two types and then just to look out for things to appreciate about each other and also watch out for ways that you might rub each other the wrong way so that you can uh potentially avoid it altogether or expect it to happen and then be able to move through it a little bit faster or go back and have that repair conversation with both people kind of understanding what happened. So on the surface, uh if if you know anything about the Enneagram, these two might be seemingly some of the most opposite types. But when you really get into it, there are there are some similarities. And it doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen where in someone's typing journey, they might truly be struggling with am I a type five or am I a type eight? We're gonna talk about that today. We're gonna talk about um ways that they can work really well together, ways where there might be some friction. And then we're also going to bring in the instinctual biases to this conversation. So today we're matching up our type five who is striving to feel detached. Their leadership style is known as the strategist. You might also see them called the observer. They really are focused on being self-sufficient. They don't need a lot from anybody else. They don't want to need a lot from anybody else, and they don't want anybody else to need a lot from them. They are really focused and good at managing their time, their resources, their energy. They tend to have pretty healthy boundaries. Um, they're comfortable saying no if they feel like, hey, I'm, you know, I've used up my energy for the day. Uh, and one of the things that we'll talk about with our vibes is that, you know, they may not necessarily have the energy to go to a team happy hour after one of our workshop uh sessions or at a company off site or um just a random, just a random Tuesday. Everybody's going to the to the the place down the street. Um, and that doesn't mean that they don't want to be invited. Uh, they still like to be asked, is what I hear anyway. Uh it's just, hey, you know what? I'm done for the day and I'm okay with that, but I do want to be asked. So that's what I hear from the fives. Now on the other side, we have our type eights who are striving to feel powerful. This is the power to produce a result, to make something happen, the just do it, Nike energy. Um, we talk about uh each each type kind of has a brand motto, and the type fives is the the the more you know. Um what is that? The NBC, the more you know. Um, because they want the data, they want the information. We'll talk more about that in just a minute. But our type eight is the action taker. Uh just just do it. Just jump in. Just just just do it. Uh, they are focused on uh being in control or not being taken advantage of. Um and this doesn't mean that they can't be led. Uh I think this is a common misconception. This just means that I want to be in control and that I'm I need to respect the person who I'm being led by. I need to trust the team around me, the people around me. And that way I, again, I feel in control. I don't feel like I'm gonna be taken advantage of because I trust my leader. I trust my team. And so that that's what we're kind of talking about. And so that is one of the reasons why AIDS value that brutal honesty. They would rather disagree with you and um or you disagree with them, but at least know they at least want to know where you stand, even if it's even if they don't agree, even if they don't want to do what you want to do. But AIDS need that because otherwise, if you just smile and nod, but you're thinking something else, and then they find out that you said something else behind their back that was different than what you said in the meeting, that deteriorates that trust. And then that goes back to that. I don't know that I feel in control. I could I can't trust the people. Am I vulnerable of being taken advantage of? And uh, am I in a vulnerable position? So that's one of the reasons why that brutal honesty means so much to an eight because they can kind of they feel a little bit more in control. Um, our type eight leadership style is known as the commander. And uh they they really have probably some of the in a lot of Enneagram books, they will say that they have the highest energy, the most energy out of all types, even the sevens that you you might think have a lot of energy. Eights just have this push, this drive. And next week we're going to be, um, I think next week, I'm gonna be releasing an episode uh with one of our um coaches and facilitators, um, Demetrius Parker, who you have heard from before, where we are looking at um all of those assertive types, the three, the seven, and the eight. So we'll get into to more of the eights a little bit later. But that's kind of that's the groundwork. Um the reason why they can get confused with one another is one, if you have an introverted eight, they may also kind of sit back and take things in before they jump into action. And so that might look like the observation uh tendencies of the type five. So that might be one reason. Um, we're gonna talk a little bit more about instinctual biases later on, but our preserving eights are gonna be a little bit more reserved compared to a transmitting eight, for example, which is probably the the textbook eight that you think of um when you think of a type eight. And so uh that preserving eight can have a lot of um maybe behaviors similar to the type five. So that can be another reason why you might be stuck between am I this or am I that? And then what was the other one? Oh, and then the relationship with anger. So eights tend to be pretty comfortable with their relationship with anger. Um again, hey, if I'm angry, you're gonna know about it. And, you know, we might go toe-to-toe, but tomorrow, if we were able to kind of go toe-to-toe, you know, hash it out, um we can cut back tomorrow and it's fine. I'm not gonna hold a grudge necessarily. We got it cleared. I feel like we talked it out, that brutal honesty, we're good. Um fives a lot of time don't uh don't show their anger, or really a lot of emotions in general, uh, until they've had some time to process and to reflect. So they definitely feel emotions, they have emotions, um, and they definitely feel anger. It's just it may not hit them until later. They might not get angry until later that that night when they're sitting at home reflecting on what happened. Um, but that's one of the key differences. I'm kind of jumping ahead of myself. That's one of the key differences is the relationship with anger. However, there are some fives, um, and maybe more of the transmitting five, or just a five who has maybe gone to therapy, had some sort of life event, um, really done a lot of um self-development, professional development work where they are aware of that tendency. And so they are extra intentional about understanding their emotions, how they feel, checking in and expressing those emotions. And so a five who has done that might be more comfortable expressing anger and they might end up looking like that type eight. So those are some reasons why they get confused. Now, um, before we jump into the coworker part, real quick, if you are struggling between these two, um, one thing to think about is how much um how much kind of how much space physically, but also just kind of energetically, you feel like you take up. Um, our fives tend to not take up a lot. Um, they're sitting, they're they're still, they're observing, they're collecting the information, they're analyzing the data, they're thinking things through, and they're not, you know, that they're that energy isn't isn't being pushed out. They're they're pulling it inward. Whereas the eight, you know, they might physically be taking up a lot of space and energetically, you just feel this kind of this intensity, this passion, uh, this boldness. And so that can be something to consider. That's not the end-all be-all, but just something to consider. Um, the other thing to consider uh is, and we want to be careful, but but each one has some where some place where they lean to. And this is around decision making. A five is going to collect all the information. They're gonna research, they're gonna research some more, they're gonna make a pros and cons list, they're going to think about things, they're going to um, they're gonna, they're just they're gonna do a lot of thinking, okay? And they they will eventually take action. Now, the eights, on the other hand, most of the time when you talk to them about their decision making, they're not jumping into bad decisions. They're not bad decision makers. It's just they tend to be really in touch with their gut instinct and know this is what I want to do. I can't explain it right now. I can't explain why this is the right decision. Um, the data might actually say something completely different, but I know in my gut that this is the decision to make and they tend to really trust themselves. And so that is something to consider, you know, how you make decisions. And then the other one was the uh your relationship with anger. Um, you know, it is just kind of swimming under the surface and it will come right out like a type eight, or you tend to um not realize you're really mad, maybe until you've replayed the scenario, you've processed what happened, and then you're thinking, oh my gosh, I'm actually furious about this. But by that time, you're home by yourself and nobody saw you blow up, maybe like they did with the type eight. So those are some things to think about if you're stuck between the two. Now I want to talk about if you are one of these types, um how to understand yourself a little bit better and then how to work and collaborate and and get along better with the with your counterpart here. Um, so let's see. First thing is first. Um, like I said at the very beginning, this can be such a powerful type. They really can complement each other well. And one of the interesting things about these two pairings is that they are connected on the Enneagram. So um when a five is really um looking for some growth goals, their growth path is uh the recommended growth path, there we go, is towards the type eight to get out of your head, to step into, you know, kind of that the gut trusting yourself, taking action, um, making decisions, creating clarity by action instead of just ruminating in your head. Um, and then our type eights, um, they will say sometimes can maybe take on some of the stress behaviors of a five where they um will withdraw, they become kind of distrusting, maybe a little secretive, um, and they kind of go inward like a five does when they're stressed, when they're not, you know, maybe living their best life. But there are also some really great um things that an eight can pull from that in their own growth path, that slowing down, maybe being a little bit more thoughtful before you take action. So they're connected on that arrow, uh, that line on the Enneagram as well. So when they're on a team, the eight can really bring that boldness, that ability to jump into action, uh, the decisiveness to this team dynamic. And then we have our fives who are going to bring the analysis, they're gonna bring the thoughtful process problem solving, they're going to maybe slow things down a little bit just to make sure, hey, we have everything. Um, okay, yep, this is great. Now let's press the go button. It's go time and we're gonna let that eight run. Um, and so together they can make some really big moves and it can be backed with a really smart strategy. Um, I was actually talking to a type eight earlier this week, and they were talking about the people on their team. And they said, you know, people are always um saying, Oh, we're so much alike, we're um, we're uh and they had just hired a new person. And he said, you know, a lot of my team members will say, Oh, we're just so much alike. I'm just like you, you're just like me. And he said, you know, that's good, but he said, I don't necessarily need another me. I am, I'm me. I have me already. What I need is who they had just hired, this person who sounds a lot like a five. I don't know, I have no idea what they are, but from what he was sharing, they were bringing that thoughtfulness. They were observing, they were noticing things that needed to be done, they were putting spreadsheets in place, they were um making checklists and making their life easier so that that action um could they could just go. They can the path could be paved smoother because there weren't all these little speed bumps along the way that was um caused by not thinking things through and having to go back and redo something or jumping in before they realized what actually worked. So that that smart strategy with bold action can be um so, so powerful in making big things happen. Um, the other thing that I have for these two in a in uh their coworker chemistry uh on the synergy side, the spark side, is that they have a mutual respect for one another. Um, they both tend to be really competent and they notice that in each other, they see that in one another. Um, fives appreciate that honesty in the eights, and and fives tend to be pretty honest as well. They tend to be pretty, you know, don't show me the data. Um, don't, don't, don't give me the drama, show me the data. There we go. It's the opposite. That's opposite of what they want. They say, I just want the data. I don't want the drama. And um, you know, I'm I'm gonna deliver bad news, I'm gonna deliver good news, and I'm just it's just gonna be facts. We're not gonna go off feelings, we're gonna go off the facts. And so eights will really appreciate that because they're not getting things sugarcoated. Um, and but also they're not getting too emotional if something is really hard or difficult. It's just, you know, hey, here's what it is, and eights will really appreciate that. So um eight eights really respect the fives' expertise, appreciate their independence because they too want to be independent. Um, one of the consistent pieces of feedback that we will hear from our type eights who uh in when we do breakout groups in our workshops by type, I don't know what the stats are for sure, but a lot of times there's some version of I hate it when people complain and don't have any sort of solution to bring me. And fives are are known for their creative and complex problem-solving abilities. So eights really respect that in the fives as well. And then the fives will admire the ability, the energy, the the confidence in the eight to jump in, take charge. So um they have that. And then the last one that I have here is the pairing of courage and knowledge, where eights are going to give the whole team the confidence to move forward, to push the goal forward, to push to make things happen, to get to that goal, while fives are there to make sure that the plans that are in place, that they're A, are plans, and then that the plans that are in place are well researched, that they're actually sustainable. So we have here a really nice mix of the ability to execute paired with the ability to come up with creative, innovative solutions. So, I mean, what an amazing team dynamic here, amazing duo. Now, of course, like any pairing, um, there can be some friction points. And not always, but here are a couple of potential friction points for these two. I think one um is you've probably already started to think about, and that's just the energetic mismatch. Um, where an eight might just be thinking, let's just move forward, let's figure it out as we go, leap and we'll build the net as we go. And the five is wanting to pull back, slow it down a little, but let's spend some more time researching, let's spend some more time looking at this before we jump into a decision that we may not, um, that we may later regret. So um also when making decisions, we kind of talked about earlier how to think about if I'm am I a five or am I an eight, if you're stuck between these two, is around the decision. And so even just the like, let's just go execution part versus the let's slow down and make sure it's right or not right, let's slow down and make sure it's well thought out. We have some sort of plan, there's some sort of strategy behind this. Um, also just the the amount of time that it takes to make a decision. So they could really butt heads in a meeting where an eight might just say, I can't explain it. I don't care what your numbers say. Type five, uh, I we need to do this, we need to do this over here. And a five is gonna say, you know, I've done the analysis, I've looked at this, I think we need to do this, I think we need to trust the data. So there could be some some budding heads there and just the amount of time. Um, an eight might, you know, be presented with a decision and they might say, within a second, yes, no, let's go, let's by this date, next year, now. And a five, when they're presented with a decision, they might say, you know what, let me think about this a little bit. I need some time to process. And so that slow decision making might feel frustrating to the type eight, but also a five might be frustrated and see the eight as really impulsive. So, you know, it make it makes sense. Knowing what we know about these two types, that potential friction point makes sense. Um the other one that I have is around energy levels. Um, our eights tend to be really intense. Um, they have a lot of energy. We just talked about how they tend to be to have the most energy out of all the types on the Enneagram, according to many, many Enneagram books and literature out there. Um, and when there is a problem, they're gonna address it head on. Hey, we don't need a dancer on this. Let's just, let's just, you know, talk about it right now. Um, I have the energy. Eights always have the energy for it. Whereas a five who is focused on detaching from emotional reactions, detaching from other people's expectations, conserving their energy, um, they may withdraw under pressure. And They might find that intensity and and that confrontation overwhelming. And they might in that moment just kind of shut down withdrawal because they don't, they don't have the capacity to process it as fast as things need to be processed with this eight. And then just the amount of emotional intensity, but just kind of the the the um gosh, what I'm lost for words, but the just the emotional impact. Um they don't they don't it it's it can be just very overwhelming. Um and so the eights though, on the other hand, can experience that reaction from a five as stonewalling, as dismissive, as dismissive. And it can cause, I mean, potentially hurt if depending on you know how they feel. They can feel um, you know, not valued. Um, they can feel frustrated, and that goes back to that, hey, I really value that direct honesty. Let's go toe-to-toe, let's figure it out right right here and right now. And that just might be overwhelming. And uh, and it's sometimes a type five is like, I don't even know yet how I'm feeling about this situation. I need to process it. But for an eight, it can feel like, oh my gosh, they don't they don't care about me, or I now I'm unsure of where we stand. I don't know, can I trust this person right now? And that can kind of feel like I'm losing control, I'm not in control of this situation, of this relationship, of this dynamic at this moment. So um, there's definitely that an eight might feel stonewalled while a five feels might feel overwhelmed and withdraw. Um, and then the other one is around um control and autonomy. And again, we this these are just some things to think about, okay? Because there are other types that also like I um we're not talking about sevens right now, but sevens also really value autonomy, want to be in control of them themselves, their own time, having that flexibility. And so this isn't this isn't just a a five or an eight thing. Um, but for the sake of this conversation, um, eights want to be in control of what's going on around them. And a lot of times um they want to be able to influence what's going on, have the power to produce a result, have the power, striving to feel powerful, to um be influential, to influence a decision. And so they might do that with that intensity, with that directness, with the confidence, with the boldness, with the passion that they have. Whereas a five is more about that independence, like I'm gonna take this piece of my project and I'm gonna go over here and work on it. And I would really love it if you didn't bother me. And uh, I don't have an open door policy. So, you know, don't come busting in on me unless we have a time set up. Don't pepper me with questions over Slack. Don't include me in the group chat and expect me to, you know, share 15 memes a day. Um, I might end up deleting myself from that group chat, is what a five might think because they they value that I just I want to be left alone. I can be a team player, absolutely, but I want my privacy and I want my independence. So um without healthy boundaries and a discussion about from both sides here, an eight might feel shut out. They might feel again like, oh my gosh, they're stonewalling, they're dismissing me. Um, I'm being shut out over here. Whereas a five might feel intruded on. Because as soon as um an eight has a question, I'm gonna go ask. I'm gonna get that answer right now. As soon as I have an idea, I'm gonna go over here to talk to my five and let's get let's get it done. Let's go, let's go to it, let's get to it. Um, and so again, they both bring, we need, we need both of these energies um a lot of times on a team. And also we can see how when they're working with one another, it makes sense why there would potentially be some friction. Um so some tips just looking at the types by themselves is that to tell an eight to slow down, I think is is gonna be really hard. They're gonna say I don't even think they want the the the slowing down. Um, but they potentially could get to their goal faster if they did just take a pause and took in the full perspective, brought in the additional information, brought in the additional observations that the five had. Um, and fives can really um grow and make this dynamic even better by speaking up sooner, um, by jumping in with action when they do feel like they're ready, rather than having to look at one more thing. I just want to research one more thing, I want to analyze one more thing. Um, and so speaking up, taking action, um, there can be so much momentum without having the burnout. Now, when we're looking at the three instinctual biases, and and again, if you're new here, we follow the awareness to action Enneagram approach, and they uh highly recommend uh looking into looking into their approach to the Enneagram. We use their teaching um here at Enneagram MBA, where they have the nine types, a strategy, striving to feel, and then they also have that the other dimensions uh instinctual biases, where we have three instinctual biases, which is really three flavors um of each type. So, you know, I I when I talk about it, it's it's like okay, we have um we have green is the color. So like that is the type, but then we also have mint green, we have jungle green, we have um corduroy green, you know, and so there's all these different shades underneath the green. So it's like we have the eight and we can understand if somebody said the fence is green, it's like okay, we have an idea. But if somebody was to say the fence is mint green versus, you know, jungle green, we it's like, okay, okay, I have a I have a better um idea of the color of that. So that's what that those instinctual biases do. They just make that that picture um of that type just that much more clear. So it's kind of like the um the lenses at the eye doctor, where it's like, you know, can you see this better or this better? And so the instinctual biases just adds a little bit of clarity. So when we're looking at instinctual bias in this case, um we're gonna look at our preserving five versus a preserving eight. And this is really uh important in the typing process because what happens a lot of times is um people might really resonate with a particular um type's motive core strategy. But then when they might read the text or get an assessment, take an assessment of some kind, um, sometimes it's more focused on the behavior, and those behaviors aren't something that they typically do. And a lot of times it's because their, you know, that instinctual bias is coloring how they express whatever their dominant type is. So let's say we have the two, we have a preserving five and a preserving eight. Our preservers are no surprise, focused on preserving resources, time, energy. And so a preserving five is kind of like the ultimate five. Like this is probably your textbook five. And on the other spectrum, the preserving eight, this might be where they might present at times like a five, but at the end of the day, that that striving to feel powerful, that um that outward push of energy versus I'm gonna withdraw and and go within. Um they they still have that. It's just expressed a little bit more conservatively that some people might think looks more like a five. So a preserving five is gonna withdraw to protect their resources, time, energy, knowledge. Um, and they might be seen as really private, careful, probably economical. And then a type uh and a preserving eight, they are really gonna be focused on protecting their resources. So protecting their turf. And it's just it's it's a nuanced, you know what I mean? Like it's it's and they very well, again, those behaviors might be very similar, but that just that am I withdrawing and um kind of managing my time, my resources, or am I truly kind of outward energy, protecting resources, my turf, exerting control, exerting my dominance, um, building security to be able to do that. Um, a lot of times they're seen as tough and prog pragmatic, um, and then the the protective. So um in teamwork, our preserving fives may frustrate our preserving eights by hold hoarding um information or be kind of being non-committal, while a preserving eight very well might overwhelm a preserving five who is wanting that uh decisiveness and immediate action. So um I think just understanding that can give you some additional insight if you're stuck between these two, and then just some additional understanding between the coworker dynamic here. Now we have our navigating instinctual bias next. These tend to be the the these types are focused on navigating social situations, understanding hierarchy. They don't necessarily need to be in charge, but they want to understand who is in charge, both who has the title of being in charge, but who also is maybe actually in charge with their presence. Um they are focused on understanding role clarity and um exchanging information, um, important information to know about others. Um, what should what should I know going into this meeting? What should I know about this person? So these are some things that our navigators are um in general focused on. And then when you have a navigating five, this person is really um observing the group dynamics. This is kind of that um I'm I'm taking it in, I'm really focused on who's saying what, who really has the power in this room, who's being truthful. Um they're doing it though from the sidelines, probably not saying a lot, maybe coming across as aloof. Um, but they would tell you, hey, I'm very engaged in what's happening. It's just, it's just all happening right up here. Um, and when then our navigating eights, they will use their power and that intensity to assert their influence in those group dynamics. Um, they're really good at political savviness, um, that organizational awareness and and and taking that kind of push energy, that action and making things happen through that. They're taking charge of alliances and understanding that hierarchy so that they can influence. And then lastly, are transmitters who in general uh tend to uh transmit. They have this kind of this putting this signal out, kind of a, hey, look at me. I want to leave a legacy, I want to do meaningful work, um, I want to be remembered. I may come across as, you know, really intense. Um and uh, you know, I I want, I don't mind being noticed. Whereas the preservers, they don't want that at all. And so I'm I'm excited to continue to talk more about the instinctual biases because even just those three, there's some interesting um insights. But when you have a transmitting five, that almost sounds like the exact opposite of the five that we have just spent all this time talking about. They almost seem like, wow, who is this? So that's why there may be some cute confusion. Am I a five or an am I an eight? Because I may be presenting a little bit more like an eight, or um, I may be a little bit more forward than the typical five that I'm reading about in my Enneagram book. So our transmitting fives want to be seen. They want to be known for their knowledge, for their competence, for their um complex problem solving abilities and skills. So they're gonna push their ideas out there when they have that transmitting energy, those complex problem solving, those big ideas, the um the strategic ideas are they want to put them out there. Um, but uh, you know, they still might seem a little detached, maybe, maybe even a little eccentric, but um, there's still gonna be a difference, especially when you're comparing a transmitting eight with a transmitting five. So a transmitting eight, it's kind of that textbook transmitting eight. So, you know, I just described the transmitter. It probably had a lot of uh similar sounding qualities to the eight in general. So this is a lot of times that textbook type eight, that big, bold energy. Um, they want to be big, they want to be bold, they want to be remembered. Um, they don't want to be denied anything. They want to get their way, they know what they want, and nothing is going to get in their way from getting it. Um, they will push out their energy. They're gonna be really charismatic, really charming, and probably really intense uh as well. So you can kind of see, even with the transmitting um the two types, uh the five might feel a little overshadowed. Um it's like, hey, I want to be recognized for my contributions, but I'm over here getting outshadowed, overshadowed, outshadowed, is that even a word? I don't know, overshadowed by my transmitting eight teammate because they are even, you know, that much more uh big and bold and out there. And so they're getting that attention. And so that can feel uh there may be some resentment. The five might feel a little steamrolled there, um, while the um eights might experience the the fives as aloof, um, maybe even a little impractical in some of their um innovative ideas and some of their the things that they're putting out there. An eight might say, especially a transmitting eight, well, I we have no idea if this is gonna work or not. You're sitting all here making all these models, um, running all these scenarios, and we have no idea. We just have to do it. Let's just, let's just do it. Um, and so uh together though, uh, these two can really make some big things happen. Some big, big things happen. So um, with that, you know, if you are struggling between these two, am I this or am I that, just kind of think about that energy output. Are you pushing out most of the time or are you maybe pulling inward? Um, your relationship with resources is another thing to understand. And even in the dynamic, um, how that can be really great and then where there might be some friction within that. Um, so the other thing to look at and to keep in mind is your relationship with resources. Eights, a lot of time want to have the power, the control over those resources, and the fives tend to want to conserve them. Um, and then, you know, uh overlaying those instinctual biases can add another level of um complexity, but also potentially clarity. Um, complexity doesn't necessarily mean complicated, it just means like there's there's more to it, right? Mint green is a little more complex than just green. Um, and so it's just taking in more information. Now, of course, always reminding you that the whole intention of the Enneagram is not to become an expert on the types and the instinctual biases and the Enneagram tool in general. It is to use it as a tool to become more of an expert on yourself and your working relationships, the people at work that really matter to you. And so use this as that, knowing that of course there's going to be other things that make these two types a really great team, these two people a really great team and potentially cause some friction. You know, um, we always talk about uh birth order, childhood background, socioeconomic status growing up and currently country of origin, culture, um, gender, race, all of these things will always um play into that. But this is just giving us some sort of starting point. And I also think that this is always helpful to realize, oh my gosh, I have been looking at the world through this. I had no idea that somebody else was over here seeing it this way. And so the Enneagram just gives us that perspective. Um, one thing that I was thinking of, I actually just yesterday while I was running was I get so, I get so mad when um people don't stop at the stop sign and they like roll through it and then they they stop at the intersection and they end up, you know, half their car is over the crosswalk. Well, when I'm running, especially when I'm running with my dog, I even get extra mad because I'm like, you could hit my dog, you know? And um when I drive, I now have that perspective to make sure that I'm stopping before the stop sign. Um, that I'm checking, you know, before I turn a certain way, I'm I'm also checking the sidewalk. I mean, it makes sense. You just look at the road, you know, you're not, you're not thinking about it necessarily looking at the sidewalk. But because I've been in both perspectives, I can kind of, I can, I can see um when I'm driving the perspective of the runner coming and I want to be able to stop or the potential for a runner to be there. And so, you know, this may be a corny example, but that's kind of what we're doing as we learn about ourselves, but also learning about the other types is understanding, okay, I'm I've been over here driving this car, rolling through stop signs, not thinking there's a different, you know, somebody else is having a pedestrian or runner experience over here. But when you're able to put yourself in the runner or the walker's perspective, um, even if you don't actually run or walk, but just start to think, oh yeah, what would that be like? Um at, you know, about to go through uh a crosswalk and some car, you know, rolls up. What would yeah, what would that be? Okay, how am I gonna change my behavior next time? Or how what am I gonna pay more attention to that maybe wouldn't be natural? So that's what this does for us is just help us come out of our understand our own perspective first of all, and then start to understand um the perspective of of other people. And of course, there's more perspectives than just the Enneagram, but that is a place to start. It's kind of like um gives us that place to get curious. Like Ted Lasso says, get curious, not judgmental, which is difficult to do at times. So with that, these are the type of conversations that we talk about inside of our workshop. So as you are wrapping up your year or looking to kick off the next year, which is kind of crazy that I'm even that I'm even saying that. But you know, we're about to, you know, four months uh away from the end of the year, depending on when you're listening to this, um, and starting a new one. So if if these are things you want to bring to your team to help close out the year, uh celebrate, reflect, we can do that. If you're looking to use this as something to kick off the a new year with um understanding and empathy and goal setting to set your team up for you know productive, effective collaboration in the new year, we can also do that. So keep us in mind. Um, and those options, the starter options, are over at Enneagramba.com. Um, thank you for listening. Thank you for being here, and I hope to see you in the next one.