SPEAKER_01 0:03

You're listening to the Enneagram at Work Podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm looking forward to diving into this week's episode with you. Well, welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram at Work Podcast. Today we are getting into, I think it'll be a fun topic, but I also think it is an important topic. And to help us uh, you know, have this conversation, I am joined by one of our Enneagram MBA visiting faculty members, Dina Smith, who also has her own therapy practice, coaching practice. She is, in fact, a licensed mental health um therapist. She is a clinical director and she is certified in the Enneagram. So welcome to the show, Dina. Thank you so much, Sarah. I'm so glad to be here. So we're gonna talk about how to decide as a Enneagram kind of facilitator, but more importantly, as somebody who is interested in bringing the Enneagram into your team to understand the difference between Enneagram therapy, or I guess Enneagram coaching and then therapy where you use the Enneagram, which this is a big trend that I'm seeing more and more therapists being certified in the Enneagram. And it is such a wonderful tool, but there's definitely some differences. And so Dina, with her expertise and experience, is gonna help us have this conversation. Uh, before we dive in though, can you kind of give us the quick and dirty bio? Like what are you the director, the clinical director of? Um, any fun facts? Just tell us a little bit about your own Enneagram experience and uh professional experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Sure. Yeah, I would love to. I'm a licensed mental health therapist. I've been in the field of behavioral health for 20 years, um, probably a little over 20 years. I introduced coaching as a part of my um just skill set a few years ago. And I found the Enneagram, just through my local community, it got brought up to me and became trained and started the certification process and really loved it as something that worked really well with um my my full-time regular gig. I am the clinical director of a treatment center, and so um the Enneagram seemed to be something that worked really well with the clientele that we have. Um, and I do have a um private practice on the side where I'm using the Enneagram to inform my therapy services and also doing some coaching with it.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Okay, so we are, you know, we're bringing we're bringing some some a credible source to you today to have this conversation. So before we get into it, I do I think this will be interesting for our listeners um just to hear how you as a manager use the Enneagram, and then we'll maybe talk about if and when you use it with clients in in that setting. Um, because this tends to be one of the biggest questions. Like we'll have a really fun workshop, whether it's two hours or two days. And then it's like, okay, well, what now what? Like, what do I do with it now? So just any any thoughts, any any specific examples of how you specifically as a leader in your organization use the Enneagram on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yes. So it's been really helpful to have our actual team trained in the Enneagram. Um, and and so that a lot of us are using the same language when we provide supervision. Um, it's helped me really have the framework to provide feedback to anybody in in terms of, you know, not necessarily just their Enneagram type, but it does help me kind of look at like where their strengths are, how they could be utilized on the team, and then any ways that I can help offer support. Um, I've definitely used it in like critical conversations. Um, it's a great framework to have. And it's honestly been really helpful for me in terms of growing as a leader because I've had feedback from people that have been my direct reports about things that are related to my own Enneagram type and blind spots that I do have as a leader or a manager that, you know, infiltrate kind of the relationship when you have a supervisee. Um, and so it's been really interesting to have that just as kind of a foundation.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Okay, I'm putting you on the spot. Would you be willing, would you be willing to share? I guess, I guess a blind spot since you brought it up, but also a strength and share what type you most identify with.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yes. So I most identify as type three. Um, and so the blind spot for the type three is definitely if I'm supervising somebody who is maybe more um feelings focused than I am, and we are having a critical conversation. Um I am someone who doesn't always, even as a clinician, even as a therapist, um, just I don't always lead with feelings and considering, you know, I'm more like, I need to get this done. I need you to get this done. We need to get this done. Um, and so for someone whose lens is more um emotionally centered or um more emotionally dominant, um, that doesn't always land well. Um, so that's kind of a blind spot that I've seen. Um, I think a strength though, being a type three is that that kind of thing, like getting that kind of feedback, I really take it and run with it. And it will be something that I carry with me so that I don't, you know, have any kind of hiccup in a relationship because for threes, it's really important that my relationships look successful.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah. So well said. I think other threes listening are gonna relate. They're gonna be like, oh yeah, okay. That's me. Yep, yep. Um, we did a fun episode. It's been several months now where it was just like the most stereotypical pairing of exactly what you were talking about. The three, let's get it done, and then the four, like, wait a minute, you're not gonna ask me how I'm doing or like really understand, not follow-up questions. Yeah. Um and so that is that yeah, that's a typical clash. Um, but it's like, okay, I know about it, and it will probably forever be a work in progress, like all of our blind spots can be. Um, but the first step is just like, hey, what yeah, accepting it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Um working on it.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Exactly. Yeah. I think that's like a big important, especially any leader, any manager, supervisor, whatever, it's like that you have to have that acceptance no matter what type you are, that there's gonna be areas that you've got to look at.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Okay, so let's let's get into the topic today where we're talking about the difference of I guess kind of coaching versus therapy, but more specifically, how do you integrate, how do you use Enneagram with the two different, I guess, methods, modalities. So um, I guess that would be my first question is how do you use the Enneagram differently compared to coaching versus therapy? And if you want to give us a quick definition of each one just to set the stage, um, that might be great too.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

So, okay, so if we're looking at kind of the difference between those two, um, the way that I kind of like to think about this, and because I think there's a lot of ideas out there, and it kind of is like, you know, therapists can be coaches, but can coaches be therapists and that kind of thing. My mindset is more about like the uh presenting kind of problem or presenting um goal that the client might have. So somebody who like when I'm doing therapy with someone, even though the therapy that I do is informed by the Enneagram and you know, we talk about what their type is and how the situation's, you know, regarding their type and their strengths and their blind spots, the therapy part of services is really more for someone who has symptoms that could meet some criteria for a diagnosis. Um, a lot of therapeutic processes are going to be um looking more at like symptoms, frequency of symptoms, severity of symptoms, um, and criteria that could be for you know a depression diagnosis, an anxiety diagnosis. Um something like that is really more where therapy kind of is. And and people don't like that. Nobody likes a label, but you know, when when we do therapy, that's how we measure certain things is how those symptoms are going in that. Um I think the other kind of um differentiation between therapy and coaching is kind of the orientation. So therapy is often like we'll go back in the past and process things, where someone who is a coach is really um looking at a client and where they are right now and a goal that they want to achieve right now in the same space of their functioning okay, day to day. So there's there's not symptoms and things happening that are impeding on their regular day-to-day functioning. Um, and then the coaching is more um is is more like present. We'll talk about what's going on right now. I'm not gonna process your childhood trauma with you in your coaching session. Um, it's just that's just not really like a great, um, a great fit. Um so I'm, I mean, I'm you like the the Enneagram informed therapy that that um that I would use, the other thing that has become that I've kind of developed into that I I really didn't actually even think about initially was the Enneagram is hard to use in therapy if that's the only thing, right? It's like it's a great support to other frameworks. So it's a great support to using cognitive behavioral therapy. Um, it's a great support to IFS. And those are kind of the theoretical approaches that I will couple the Enneagram with in therapy. We're coaching, it's like we're looking a lot at, you know, deep diving your type and and really looking a lot at your strengths in terms of this specific goal that you want to meet. Could be a relational goal, could be, you know, something with work. Um I'm, you know, I work with with parents on their their relationship. So it's and it's more of a like now kind of like my life's not on fire right now. Um, so I just I have this thing that I want to do, I want to grow in this area. So, you know, coaching is kind of more suited for that, if that all makes sense. Okay. That does.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I really like that. I I really like the like the time orientation kind of like what do you need to go back and like process versus looking ahead to the future, which it sounds like is is more coaching. So what might be like an example of or either a goal or a challenge that will bring people to coaching versus therapy?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

So I would say um people that maybe like an example would be they are working and they maybe are somewhat higher achieving, they have these relationships at work, and like something is not clicking, and maybe it's preventing them from getting ahead at work, or preventing them from being being um successful on a project, or preventing them from just having good relationships at work. Then it's like that would be more of a coaching thing that you can dig into their Enneagram type, some of the things that we were just talking about, and look at like, okay, you know, moving forward, kind of where do we need to go to make sure that when you're, you know, when you're in a meeting with this person, um, let's think of specific strategies, you know, for your meeting next week that you can implement that is you maybe accessing one of your paths or whatever it is, right? Looking at traits of your wings. And so that might be an example of someone who would come for coaching. And I think it's okay. Like I do think it's okay, it's a fine line. I think this is where it's really important as someone who practices as a therapist or a coach to know like your limitations. People in coaching sessions are gonna bring up things from the past. I mean, that that is going to happen. And it's kind of like our job as coaches is to not really open up a can of worms that a coach maybe doesn't know how to put the top back on, if if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. And then are there, I'm I I'm assuming that there are, but are there just kind of some ethical or I guess responsible uh practicing things that a coach would need to keep in mind, a therapist would need to keep in mind just to make sure, or even, you know, in my case, um, as a facilitator, like what are what what is something or are are things that we need to keep in mind?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um I would say I would say all across the board, it feels like to me, um, and and maybe this is just kind of I don't know, or maybe it's because I was a therap trained therapist before I was a coach or or doing any kind of facilitation like that. Um, but it it does feel like to me that confidentiality is like a universal thing when you're developing a relationship with someone as a therapist or a coach. Um, I think that it goes um for for both roles, um, that confidentiality is something that should be just really at the forefront. Um I think the other thing is, and and I really appreciated this with um the any coaching training that I have taken, even through my certification process, there's always been caveats about like if someone brings up, right, they're talking about hurting themselves or they're um they're starting to really talk about not being able to function every day. You know, they're they're exhibiting things that seem like um not even like they're impaired, but they just like they're not progressing. And so I think if that happens in a coaching session, coaches need to know to refer someone to a therapist because that might be something more diagnostic or something that needs deeper assessment. Um, I think that's the other thing is that coaches' assessments look a lot different than someone who's doing therapy. You know, I have I have different intake forms. If I'm seeing someone as a coaching client versus a therapy client, I need to know more if they're a therapy client. Um, I just I need to know more about their backgrounds. Then if someone's coming to me and is like, hey, you know, my goal is to just, you know, I want to um, I want to improve like, you know, my communication with this person, and this is the struggle we're having. Like that's different. I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

So let me let me let me ask you this. So um I have seen a lot of therapists, and there are multiple like Enneagram-informed therapy certifications or education programs that I have been seeing over the years more and more. Um, and then obviously Enneagram coaching. What do you see, like in your opinion, what is the benefit as a coach who might have additional modalities or a therapist who you definitely have other methods? What is the benefit of using the Enneagram?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

I honestly, since I've been using the Enneagram, I cannot recall how I did therapy. I'm like, this is making everything so much easier for us, like for both myself and the client. Um such a benefit because it's like you have you have the same language, right? We can like I can teach that language, and then that's what we're using. Um and I think the Enneagram just it's one of the things I love about the Enneagram compared to some other personality assessments that are out there. I feel like, and I feel like there's so many out there right now. Um I think a lot of them are good, including including the Enneagram, obviously. But the I really like that the Enneagram, it doesn't just look at like, hey, you're doing this behavior, or this is like your automatic kind of habit that you do in relationships, like good luck to you. It's like this is something that is matic for you, and this is what's motivating that. And we're not gonna change that part, maybe, but there are all these other parts of you that you have that you're not really leaning into that are part of your whole personality. And so I love it like doesn't put us all in a box. I love that. I love that it's like a more feet, always feedback I get is it's more strengths-based, um, which I think is you know what people are looking for when they're seeking um a therapist or a coach or help with their team. Um, but yeah, I just I think it helps really frame kind of it, it just it feels like to me I can connect faster. And I think the client feels like I'm understanding them more sooner. Okay. And I don't, I don't think like, like I would never tell somebody, you know, this is the other thing about the Enneagrams, like if I if we're if we're in sessions together as a coach and you know, we're we do a typing interview or something, and then you're like, hey, I think this is my type, and I disagree. I'm not gonna argue with this person like that's such a type. Um, but and it may not even come up, you know, we as a therapist or in a coaching session, I would never, you know, like, hey, this is that like type three thing that you do, you know, but it's it's also it's just like, yeah, I really feel the rapport gets built faster. And it's it's such a comforting, I don't know, it just feels like a comforting thing because it's like, oh, you're already a little bit like in my heart and in my head, and you know, you already kind of know this stuff. So I think it's disarning for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yes, yes. And I I like what you you've said it a couple of times. And I also get this feedback from clients about the same language or shared language. It's like, it's like, you know, when you um like say a dog, it's like you you know kind of what a dog is, but you don't know if it's like a poodle, a German shepherd, a pug. Yes, and so like that's where the curiosity can get into. But without the word like dog, you're like, um, it's a mammal, four leg, and you're like, I, you know, it could be a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, you would get there eventually, but I think just knowing, like, okay, Dina most identifies as a three. Okay, I don't know everything about her, but it's like, okay, she's this category of a mammal, or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yes, yes. And I think that also, like, even in terms of so when I am when I have therapy clients, I I will use, I will say for my coaching clients versus my therapy clients, the actual language, the Enneagram language comes up a lot less in my therapy sessions. Even though it's informed by the Enneagram, we're talking a lot less about the actual Enneagram type versus all the traits of that type and those kinds of things, right? So if I'm working with someone who is a type, um, let's say they are a type two, it's like when we're talking about, you know, childhood wounds or family of origin issues in therapy and processing some of that, the language I'm using is not like, well, you know, a lot of type twos, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm talking about. Like, wow, like you were in a situation where it really revealed that one of your strengths is helping or one of your strengths is nurturing. And that's a situation in your life that brought that out. So that's how I would talk about it. Versus usually with coaching clients, it's more like out there. Um, because they're, you know, they're they're dealing with a goal that they want to achieve. They're looking at things that are less kind of um lower severity, you know, lower kind of heat in terms of um friction and stress and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Okay, that's helpful.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

So let me ask you this. So we we're talking, we're kind of pulling from your professional experience as a coach, as a therapist, but I also know, like, also professional, but I think less like somebody's hired you. You we talked about how you use it with your team. And I'm assuming when that happens, there's occasionally team dynamics. It's not just one-on-one necessarily, or maybe you're bringing in a couple people or you're working through specific issues. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because um I have gone through couples therapy before. And I think almost after every workshop, people are like, oh, I could use this with my spouse, or I could use this with my sister-in-law or whoever. You know, it's just like you have somebody that you can use it with. So it is like about self-awareness, but also others. And I think a lot of times managers are gonna be in a position like you where they're like, okay, I'm I'm maybe not a certified coach, but at what I'm doing is like I'm kind of leading or I'm leading, I'm kind of coaching. Um what how do you use like with your team the Enneagram to navigate, I guess, others' awareness and that relationship management piece in addition to just the other or the self-awareness?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

So it sounds like you're kind of asking, like, as a leader, how do you kind of use the Enneagram to help to like have awareness between those relationships with my team? Yes. So I mean, I think let me think about this. I think it's honestly for me, it's more, and maybe this is because I'm a type three, but uh it's more, it's more for me about like what not to do, or like how not to approach a situation. And I also I think as a as a as a manager, it definitely gives kind of the background or the behind the scenes of why that person might have been motivated to do XYZ, right? Or to behave in XYZ way. Um, so I think that kind of like behind the scenes clarity is really nice to have. But I think it is important if I didn't know, um if I just knew the Enneagram, right, or I took a class on it, or even even if I was I'm like I am now, right? But nobody else on my team learned about the Enneagram or I didn't bring anybody in to train with them or whatever, you know, it wouldn't it wouldn't really be helpful because me knowing it isn't as great as we all know it. And so it's like it's I know I know the the types of most of the people on my team. Like that's been something that's been established, right? And and when you have new hires, you have to establish that because this is kind of how our team connects. Um, and you know, it's it's a regular part of, you know, when we do um a you know, we do try to do an annual retreat. I always try to bring something related to the Enneagram because I I want to make sure that they still know like this, this is kind of a thing for us. This is something we can all relate to. And some of it's for fun, of course. And it's just funny, you know, to talk about, you know, oh, you know, so and so whatever, you know, didn't join us for lunch, and that's you know, we know what his type is, and let's just like let him be, you know. So um, but I think it's so important that I, as the manager, know their types and and they know my type because that to me has a lot of value in it. Um, I think it's I think managers, it depends on the culture of the company. But I think, you know, I I I work for a a hospital system that's partnered with an academic institution and I've been there a while. So for me, I am like, I try not to be one of those managers that is too unapproachable or too like I'm over here and y'all are over here, you know, doing everything. Um, so I want them to know my type because when I mess up in our relationship, maybe they can have some grace for that and it can lend to them, you know, oh, it's actually not about me. Dina was doing her whatever thing she does, and that's why this ended up like that.

unknown 27:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

I that is that is so that is so helpful. I actually just I actually just had a situation uh with somebody in my immediate family, and I'm pretty sure she's a type one, and we got into it, and um I just felt like she was being kind of a nag and like overly critical and overly worried. And I reflected on that situation, and then I was like, oh, you know, I I think it because she was so focused on this, and I'm over here like I don't need that, doesn't even get on my radar. Right. And so like that was helpful and like to repair that situation. Um, and so whether it is the Enneagram, I mean, I'm obviously biased, uh, but just having something that's like, oh, maybe this is what that person, where that person was coming from versus like what I'm gonna assume that they were coming from versus my perspective on life. So that can be really helpful. Um let let me ask you this. Sometimes people will say, like, oh, the Enneagram is like astrology. Like, I mean, you could just like put any description over anybody and that you could find ways to like tie it um to that. And so I think, and maybe I'm I'm kind of like maybe actually making another question, but I think the fact that you are in like a clinical setting, what is what would be your response to somebody who might be having that misconception that the Enneagram is like astrology and you can't really rely on it in a in a professional setting?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah, that is that's so interesting. Um, I oftentimes have had have had people ask me about like, does it line up with astrology? Like if I'm a tourist, am I one of these types? And I'm literally like, I have no idea because I don't know astrology. Um, and I've learned of other systems too that I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so many of these things out here. Um and I guess what I would want to clear up, and and I think I also have experienced um, even, you know, speaking at conferences and and even in workshops, like I've experienced the, you know, what is the what's the history of the Enneagram? And, you know, is it is it evidence-based and and that kind of thing. And I've received, you know, years and years ago, um, when the Enneagram was first introduced to me, I had a little bit of the same kind of thing where like I was like, this is kind of weird. Like, I don't, I'm gonna put this down for now. Like I'm exposed to it. Yeah, it's kind of accurate. Um, but it's kind of like, I don't know if I can like dive into this yet, and then it popped back up in my life. So um but I would say, gosh, I would if something is a helpful tool, like if it's going to help you in your life, right? If it's going to help you um in your relationships, if it's going to help you um understand and heal parts of you that maybe are are unhealed, if it is going to help you, you know, move towards your goals, I would just say, like, what difference does it make? You know what I mean? Like how much, how much do you need to know other than this is this has been helping people? Um, it has been something that has been, I think, really getting a lot more exposure. Um, and yeah, no, it's not, it's not astrology and it's not some of these other, you know, things that I feel like will will put you in a box or give you this label, and then it's like you can't step out of this box. Um, and I think that it's I think that there's those misconceptions about it if if you don't really understand all the layers of the Enneagram and all the different ways that it can be applied. Did that answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah, I and I think that goes back to one of the very first things that we were talking about was using it responsibly. Yeah. And I think an example of using it irresponsibly and why it can get a bad reputation or like pseudoscience kind of thing is when you do say, Oh, Dean is a three, I can predict her future behavior. Sevens Sarah's a seven. I know everything about Sarah now. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. We're we're we we're both dogs and this is sticking with this analogy. Um, but it's like, I don't know, who I might be a pug, Dina might be a poodle, you know. And you gotta you gotta ask clarifying questions. It's a starting point. Anything you would add to that?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yes, it's definitely a starting point. I think that there is so much, you know. I just I think that if you only look at that, right? And that's why I think that it's helpful to have kind of other other things when especially when you're using it as a in therapy, because I think therapy has like there's a sacredness to it. I just yeah, I agree with what you're saying. There's there's not a if it were that easy, my goodness, you know, we would all just get along like that. And you know, that's that would just be our stereotypical way of of doing things, and that would be it. And it's like there's it's just a much more dynamic situation than I think what a lot of people give it credit for. And there is so much, gosh, there's so much information on the internet, there's just so much out there. I try to share with people, you know, be real cautious about cautious Enneagram, just like anything else, you know, be real cautious about it. Um, because there are, I mean, just like I'm sure astrologers and all of that, there's so many different kinds of approaches to different things. And it's like you you want to be real cautious about that stuff. But yeah, I know I don't I don't want to be just labeled as a dog. Right. Yeah, somebody to get to know the other parts of me.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

There's so many other parts.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

And it's also like on your like as a manager, you don't want, I think this is the other thing that is important when you learn about the Enneagram, is you know, when you have a good facilitator, good coach, or you know, someone who who's able to use it in therapy, it's not, it's not an excuse for how you are. So it's not like, well, but we talked about like I'm, you know, free. So this is just kind of now what's gonna happen. This is how I am, you know. It's not, it's not a stop, it's not like a it's not a stop sign for you to just excuse your behaviors that are impacting people on your team or impacting, you know, people in other departments or or whatever it is. Um, it's and you have to really dive a little deeper to understand that for that to make sense.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah, yeah. It uh totally. Yep. Um okay, so I think I have two more questions before we wrap it up. Um, what advice would you have for listeners who want to make sure that they are working with a qualified, um, I guess responsible therapist or Enneagram coach? What should we look for? Any any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yeah, so I would say a therapist. So a a qualified therapist using the Enneagram, you wanna ask about trainings that they've had. Um, you want to ask about how they use it with other modalities, with other theoretical approaches. Um I think you also want to ask, um, I think it's always a good question to ask when you're seeking therapy, like just the person, are they actually licensed? Are they under supervision of a license? Um, that kind of thing. Um and then I think for coaches, I really think for the Enneagram, sort of like a certified coach is a great idea. I do think, you know, people might disagree with that because sometimes some of these certifications take a long time or they're very expensive. And I would just say to people aspiring to do this, to to add a coaching component to a therapy practice or to become like coaches is to find something that fits. I don't think certifications have to take, you know, forever. I I really don't think that. I don't think they have to be, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars. But I think when you're looking for a coach, I do think having a certification means that they got some kind of training about it, which is important, you know, and you know, any good coach that you see is gonna have continued training. So I would say it's a lot around like training, what other approaches they use. I think it's also a really great question to ask about um, ask kind of what not what strategies, but what tools maybe they they use as part of therapy or part of coaching, because those tools are gonna look different as well. So it's like you as the client really want to look at like, what am I getting into, right? Is this something I need to take a different look at? Maybe I thought I needed a coach and I actually need a therapist because these other tools that you're describing are actually what I'm looking for. Um, so I think asking about the tools that are used as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Okay. And that that is so important because I think it's easy to get caught up on like, okay, I know the Enneagram, but it's like, well, the Enneagram is like information and it and it is a framework, but then like that delivery of the framework delivery, yes. Yes, is is also really important. So those are great things to think about. Um, okay, is there any advice that you would give listeners who are uh maybe they they're dabbling with the Enneagram, either in therapy or in in their work? What advice would you have for them to incorporate the Enneagram into their professional development? Like, is there like a specific piece of the Enneagram? Is there general advice? Is there words of caution? Anything that would help uh a professional's growth journey specifically in the workplace?

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yeah, I so I think that as a professional using the Enneagram for like your own growth, I do think it's so important to just kind of go into it, eyes wide open, um, have a lot of curiosity around it and honestly be prepared to face things that make you want to throw up because you're like, is that really like how I I function? Or is that really how other people experience me? Um I I just think as a professional and one, especially like working with people, um, I think, yeah, it's just really important to be really curious about it, have a lot of grace for yourself during that process because I think that without, you know, somebody coaching you or guiding you, it can be this process where you're like, you might get stuck, um, or you might, depending on, you know, kind of depending on um, you know, what what part of you is dominant, you might get, you know, real critical of yourself, or you might get real stuck on something, or you might overlook something because it's uncomfortable. So I think just being ready to be eyes wide open with it and really just, you know, it it's a really great growth tool. And I do think it's, you know, it's not going to, I think it's so important for like professionals using the Enneagram just to know, like, it's not like you want to build your team off of like, I need this type and I need this type and I need this, like that is so not okay to do. Um, you know, it's like I tell clients, like, people are putting their Enneagram types on their dating profiles. It's like, no, don't just look at that and be like thinking you know that this is gonna be like a match for you. Like, no, don't do that. Oh, they must be great, yeah. Right, they must be great, or they're gonna be a lot of fun. Like, no, don't do that. Um so yeah, I just think staying curious, a lot of grace, a lot of self-compassion. Um, and I would say, like, I think, I think managers and leaders, I think it can get kind of, I don't know, it gets it can get kind of lonely. Like there is there is a a stop point. Like I I love working with my team and I love my team, and but there's boundaries in place, right? As a leader, as a manager. So it's like maybe don't, don't, don't just pick up the Enneagram by yourself. Like maybe with somebody else who's on on your level, else who you feel like, you know, um would be open with it and you guys could keep it fun initially, someone you can just be yourself with.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Oh, I love that. That's great advice. That is great advice. Okay, so on that, I want to give um, I want to give Dina a shout-out because she also specifically works with parents. So um anybody who is like any professional listening to this that's like, I think I would really love to use this at home, um, consider reaching out to Dina and we'll link your website, the way to learn more about that. Would you share where that is though, just for anybody who is listening and wants to look it up real quick, how can they get in touch with you or an email address on that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

No, for sure. Um, I would say my um I have a psychology today page. Um, so we can link to that. Um my email, um, they they can reach me on my email is desmith11721 at gmail.com. Okay. Um, and then if you just put in like you want an Enneagram coach, I have a My Enneagram coach profile. And so I'm on there as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Okay. And because, you know, like like we said, so many people leave our workshops thinking, like, oh, I gotta bring this home somehow with my kids, with my spouse, just to be a better parent, um, to be a better partner. And so I know that you have taken some additional classes to be able, again, using it responsibly. That would not be an area that I would talk about, but Dina has that credibility. So you can do that. And then I do want to say too, um, Dina is one of our facilitators. And uh, we do have therapist groups that will reach out that Dina would be a great fit for. But also I think just having the fact that I I love having Dina on our team because she not only has that therapy background, the credentials, the experience that go along with that, but as a manager, she is using it in her day-to-day work life. So I think that is really important and impactful for a facilitator to be able to pull from you know your bag of real life examples. And then one thing that I think is is going to be more of a focus for us here at Enneagram MBA moving forward is sometimes people just want to do a workshop for entertainment. And that is perfectly fine. Two hours, we can give you a good time, we'll give you some laughs that you can chuckle about, you know, for the rest of your life if you want. Um, but then there's other groups that are like we are going through a merger, we are growing a team, and it rec or we are bringing in a new manager. And so it makes sense to do something more long-term. And in those experiences, typing becomes really important. And Dina is really good at typing, um, individual typing, individual coaching. So if you have a specific manager issue, professional issue, um, you're not sure about your type, I'm gonna link how to get a one-on-one session with Dina going in that area as well. So um any any last words, anything that you want to say, share that I didn't ask you about that would make this episode feel complete?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

No, I mean, I think I'm just like so glad to get some of this information out there. I think it's important. And um, I don't, you know, I think it's um, you know, when I when I added coaching as a part of being a therapist, I was so worried, honestly, about like, oh my goodness, like, you know, some therapists have a a view of people who do coaching, like it's something wadded down or it's not, you know, it's not helpful, it's not useful. And I just I think that there is such a place for coaches and for facilitators with the Enneagram. Um, and I just I I I felt that though as a therapist. It was like, okay, I'm gonna add this other thing. And it's kind of like, you know, did I have to, you have to go and get a master's degree to be a coach? No, you don't. But guess what? Like coaches are helping a lot of people um get through little sessions and get through those things. And that I think is okay. So um I just, you know, if if there is, if there are clinical people listening to this, I think it's it's okay and we all have to play in the sandbox together.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Yes, yeah, that that is that's a great, that's a great take on that. And you know, you also just made me think like people who might be going through career transitions, just how important um a conversation about understanding yourself and where you want to go and understanding even where you want to go and using the Enneagram to help you clarify some of that could be really helpful. And I know many of us um are also going through something like that. So all kinds of ways to use it. And Dina is somebody who can help you do that. So I appreciate you, Dina, so much. Definitely um, she's also on LinkedIn. I don't know if we said that. So connect with her. I know that our guests always love to hear directly from you listeners on what you're taking away, anything that you thought was funny, anything that you felt like was relatable. So definitely reach out, Dina. Thank you for being here. And listeners, uh, thank you for being here, and we'll see you in the next one.