SPEAKER_03 0:07

Welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram at Work Podcast. I am one of your hosts today, managing director here at Enneagram MBA, and our co-host today, I'm joined by Dee. Yeah, I was like, say hi, Dee. I'm pointing to them in the video if you're watching this on YouTube. So we are going to do a fun episode today where we talk, um, we reshare kind of our own personal experiences of how we have used the Enneagram, whether it's um insights about our type specifically or insights about other people. Um, maybe they're broad, maybe they're very specific, but just giving some examples of how we are actually applying the Enneagram. And I think that is always one of the biggest questions that comes up in our workshops is okay, this was fun, but like what do we do with it or how do you use it? And so um these aren't necessarily advice. I don't think in here, I think it's more of just kind of a fun conversation to give you ideas for potentially how you can think about and use the Enneagram in your own life. Anything you would add to that, Dee?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

That was that was nice. I would just probably say to that point of yeah, keep it as we talk about this. This hopefully you're not one of those folks. And if you are, no judgment, but oh, I shouldn't say but because I just took that away. And uh I do that too. You know, we do it. Um, and try to think about the way I like to try to think about the healing ground is it's not my identity, it's how I operate. Um, it's a space how I've learned to operate and maneuver um in the world. And so with that, I just want to kind of keep that in mind that as we talk about these things, because I've still you know, for me, still always staying open and curious to what that looks like. Um and yeah, just be open. So that's what I was gonna think.

unknown 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Okay, that's a good, that's good. Words of wisdom, words of caution. Um, okay, so what I what I thought is we can just kind of volley back and forth, like I'll SharePoint, you can SharePoint, or vice versa, and we'll kind of go back and forth. Um, I have, I think I have three. And so if you have three or four, we'll we'll get through those. This is not an all-inclusive encompassing list by any means. I think these are just some that we had come up with that come top of mind. Um, there's all kinds of different ways, obviously, that you can use this. Do you want do you want to go first or do you want me to kick it off?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

No, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

All right, we'll do we'll do the ladies first, I guess. Okay, so the first, so the first kind of takeaway that I have is around understanding my own type. And as a type seven who operates mainly using that type seven strategy, striving to feel excited. One, I'll I'll kind of share an overuse strength that I've that I've tried to pay more attention to and dial back, and then uh a strength that I've tried to dial up and and uh lean more into. And so the strength, I think, and I've I've talked about this before, and it's it's kind of weird to talk about yourself and like this is a strength. My therapist will be so happy, uh, but uh is around the idea seeing the potential and seeing the possibilities and also believing the optimism that they can happen. And I think the biggest example for me personally is what I'm doing now. So this business of Enneagram NBA is something that I thought, oh, this is possible. I kind of thought um, sometimes uh, and this makes me sound, I don't know how this makes me sound, but sometimes I channel like the Elle Woods, like, what? Is this hard? Um, and I think a lot of sevens kind of channel that not from like an uneducated, it's just like, well, of course it's eventually gonna work out. I believe that it's going, it's going to turn out. I believe that we can live up to this potential. There's this all this possibility. Um, and I think that I'm good at seeing it in others. And I've gotten better at seeing it and then believing and doing something with it on my own. And then kind of the second part of that is then doing it and when challenges come up, when roadblocks hit, still believing like it's gonna work out. Um, and I'm sure Dee can relate to this as well. But when you have your own business, uh, there are a lot of things that kind of come up and you can you can kind of second guess yourself. Um, like, should I be doing this? And I think looking back, I don't know that I would have necessarily gone down, started this path, knowing all the things that have come up. But I also think that kind of almost like naive optimism has allowed me to jump in and then just keep believing it's gonna work out. So, and I think that I think that many semmons um have this superpower, whether it's you're in your role at work, whether there's something um personal you're trying to do. I believe that I was able to run a marathon. That's like, what, it's hard. Like, I'll just do it. Um there's there's that. And and so I guess the the takeaway is just looking at whether you're a seven or whatever type you are, like really, really think about the strengths that you have and and and you know, accept those, like receive those, find ways to see those in yourself. And then I think on the flip side, the thing that I have gotten better at, um, not just this past year, but just since understanding the Enneagram. So over the last several years, and I've still got to work on it, is that idea of toxic positivity. And I think it's allowed me, understanding that I have a tendency to do that has allowed me to be a better friend, um, a better parent. Um even, you know, uh just a better kind of corresponding, talking with people everywhere in the world because nor and anywhere, because normally prior to understanding that I did this, my default would be when somebody was having a hard day, well, I'm sure it'll all work out. Like it'll all be fine. Um, don't, you know, don't worry. It's so dismissive. It's so incredibly dismissive. And so over the years, I have gotten better at, I mean, just like, wow, that really sucks. And not and just kind of letting them continue talking rather than feeling like I needed to reframe it. And I feel like I'm such a better listener. I'm somebody that others could come to because now I I do slow down and I just listen and I just try to channel that empathy, like really understand how my baby's feeling, rather than oh my God, that I'm really uncomfortable. I don't know what to say. Let me, you know, let me say something positive. Um, let me Tony Robins them real quick. And it's like, no, that's not typically what we need in those moments. So that's my kind of self-awareness. A couple of specific examples with understanding my type seven.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

I like it. I like it. Um, well, actually, before I jump in, I just want to give you kudos for the recognition of those challenges that, you know, as an individual that we all have, because we all have challenges, not all of us like to recognize them, and then the fact that you not only recognize them, but then you actually put some action to it to say, okay, how do I work to not have this impair me as much as it typically did? So kudos to you for that. Um, I also wanted to give kudos to what I like about uh folks who operate from that seven space. I love the momentum. Right. I love the fact that things tend to always go forward, not necessarily, not necessarily always in an intentional way.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Um or in a straight line, even.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Or in a straight line. No, no, no, no, no. It may not always be uh, you know, in the way that you think you're gonna move forward, but you always, for the most part, always move forward. There's there that creativity, that optimism, that energy um that's there. And as someone who operates from that three space, I love it because it helps me to be like, all right, yep, I know that we can partner and I know that we're gonna not necessarily get stuck in the humdrum phases of things that then I get bored um and feel like I'm not getting things done. So I love that. So anyway, I wanted to share that with you. So thanks, thanks for being thanks for being in that seven-space partner because I like for me operating in that three space, it's very interesting for me because as I kind of just shared, I want to get things done. Um, I want to have impact, I want to achieve, I want to, in all honesty, and probably not the greatest thing, I want to be recognized. Um and so with that, you know, it's one of those places for me that understanding that's how I operate and that as a leader, I always have to be mindful that that's not how everyone else operates all the time. And even when they do, it's not to the same um level, right? When you think about priorities, that's not everyone else's priority. Um, and so I always have to keep that in mind. And then recently, and then you know, I'm gonna be a bit vulnerable here. You know, I've shared with you, but now sharing with everyone who's listening in or seeing this. Um the other layer to how I show up with that three space is also um neurodivergent. So ADHD can somewhat color that sometimes a little different. Um where a lot of the three that I know can seem very focused and intense. Uh as someone that's operating in that same space but with ADHD, I don't always seem as focused except for the things that uh kick up my dopamine. And when it kicks up my dopamine, I am super focused. And I and and I take things to a level where folks are like, I wasn't expecting all this and thank you. And you're like, yes. So there's that space as well for me. Uh and so it's again one of those things where I have to keep that in mind. And as I recently kind of discovered that I've been operating with ADHD, understanding why. Oh, if you put me with a bunch of other neurotypical type threes, they may go, oh, you sure you operate in the three space? Because you you you feel kind of seven-ish. Um and yeah, a lot of times I can, which may also be why I really get along with sevens because yeah. Um, so anyway, so that's what I would say with that as my first example.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Yeah, that's a and that's such a good point. I actually had somebody a couple weeks ago ask specifically about ADHD. And it's like, am I a seven or do I have ADHD? It's like, okay. So, and that goes back to it's really hard to talk about the types without talking some sort of like tendencies, common behaviors. But again, that's not what makes the type the type. It really goes back to that core logic or that core motive. And so, to your point, how that type, that core logic gets expressed might be very different based on yeah, a diagnosis, um, country of origin, like, you know, all these other things can play into it. And it you just have to, we just have to keep going back to like that that core, the core motive, not the only motive, but the the core motive most of the time, or that core logic. Um, okay, so the my second one has to do with, and I don't think she'll mind me saying this, is our workshop coordinator, C Sol, for those of you who may um have corresponded with her. She operates mainly from that type six, striving to feel secure, safe, uh, risk assessment, certainty, uh having a plan. And so it's been an interesting um just kind of getting to understand how each other works because as a seven, I never want to be told what to do. This is why I was a terrible employee. Um I don't tell me what to do, tell me what the goal is, and then let me play around with how to do it. So kind of that like laissez faire, more hands-off, just get it done, you know, kind of thing. And so that's how I was, you know, kind of leading her, working with her. I just feel like, hey, just you know, do this. I don't care how you do it.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

And she goes, I think it's your same society. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

I was like, please don't give me options. She said, just tell me what to do.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Don't do that. Don't do that to me.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

I said, I trust you, you're smart. Like, I I believe that you will figure this out. I'm like, uh, I probably could, but I would just feel so much better if you would tell me exactly what to do. And I thought, oh my God, I would just feel so micromanaged if somebody was like, here's exactly how to do this. So again, we don't want to like blanket every person and just say, okay, all sixes like this, but that is something I think the the takeaway is to understand how I like to be led, and then understanding that that's not necessarily how everybody else likes to be led or worked with, collaborated with. Um, and so just that could be a great question, you know, that that um, or when you run into issues, you might stop and think, like, oh, am I leading how they need to be led, or working with them how they need to be worked with, or am I doing it from how I like to be worked with? And so um that's been a big one that I still don't always do well. But I'm like, oh, you're right, you're right here. Uh ABCD, do it this way.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

As your as your friend and ally, I'm I'm gonna share with you something that I use um in my leader when I'm in a leadership role in the leadership space, which is when I'm when I have staff and work with staff, what I ask them is three questions. What do I want-on-one? At the end of the meeting, I always ask them, um, what can I start doing? What can I stop doing, and what can I keep doing?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

So good.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Those those three questions tend to help me out a lot. Um, of course, you have to hopefully feel that you've built a relationship where there's you know that psychological safety um that they can share. Especially the things when they're like, well, can you stop doing uh X? Um But I feel like that helps a lot to be able to dial in. Am I showing up in the way that they need versus in the way that I feel that I would need or like? Because even when you were sharing about the six needing direction, at the same time they want direction. I feel, and this is where it goes down to when you're talking about mo the motivators, right? What what's motivating is that they may want more direction than what you would want. And at the same time, they also typically don't like to be micromanaged.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Don't tell me what to do, but like, can you tell me what to do? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Don't tell me what to do, but tell me what to do. Um, and so anyway they're really saying this tell me what to do, just don't tell me how to do it. It's like you can tell me what, tell me what's needed, tell me when it's need to be done.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Great distinction.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

But then let me do what I do because I'm a professional, right? So I think that's where that comes in. Because right there, when you mention that, it kicked in for me. I'm like, I'm the same way. I hate, do not tell me. Don't don't just tell me what needs to be done. And then let me do what I do the way I do it. Um for the when I had leaders, so I um I know I'll share with you that I used to do film. And um when I was doing this one film project, I had this one director, won't say any names. Um, if they're listening, they don't know who they are. Um but I had this one director who was such a stickler because they were also not only were they directing the film, but they had also written the film. And so they were very particular about every word. Every word. Um, and to the point where even using a or uh they were like, no, it's a it's a and that was so hard for me in scenes because I would go, you know, I would say a scene. I'm like, and there's uh and they're like cut cut a lot and they're like there's a yeah, right, and some people are like that, that's like they're very hyper focused on words or the things that they want or whatever that looks like. And so it's kind of keeping those things in mind when we're working with people. Yeah, and again, operating from that three space. I I have to keep that in mind because I know again, I'm coming in with my high energy and my focus on hey, how can we make an impact? What's the biggest impact that we can make? And what is that gonna look like? And so I even have to think about that with uh my my wife who is in, you know, that's gonna be one of my examples of uh working my wife.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Is this your is this your second one right now? Are we doing this? Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

This is my second one. All right, working my wife is a two, who you know, she's coming from that to navigator also. Okay, so she's coming from that let me help, let me be of service, uh, all that, and let me get to know you, asking tons of questions, and then I come and we go to parties, and and I'm coming from the free trans meeting space, and it's like, hey, let's just talk about how we can get things done. Here's the things that I've been getting done, and you know, and my mindset is in those moments is that you're going to if you have something to share, you're going to share. Right. Um, versus for her, it's no, uh you need to pause and ask and and bring that, you know, kind of set it up for them to share, right? Invite them to share. Uh and in my mind is but we're having a conversation, so uh automatically you should know you're invited to share. Because it's a conversation, that's how conversations work. I share, you share. We go back and forth. Um and you know, for her, it's like, no. You pause, you ask more questions when they share, you dive deep, and in my head thinking, but then I may not share because what happens if they don't do that back? If we're trying to play that game, here's you have a talking stick, I have a talking stick. So that's uh example for me of understanding that I do that and I've been practicing. Um trying to be you know more quiet, quiet my mind, ask questions. I know that has something there. That I want to share, but even saying nope, nope, nope.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Let them finish. I'm gonna ask more questions.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Well, you know, that kind of reminds me, I don't I don't know that this was gonna be on my list, but um I I I had it as a backup and it a similar thing where um, and I think that I think that three sevens eights probably do this more than any of the other types, where when we're talking it, and then we might what others might experience as an interruption, we are like, oh, we're like jiving, we're like brainstorming, we're like, oh, oh, we could do this, you could do this. We're connecting, and we're like, you're connecting. But I I have I have seen and I have heard my experience, people talking about like their just their work experience, where types like a five, like a nine, um especially can can interpret that as like you're interrupting me, you're talking over me. Um and so I I really try to just be more aware of it. Um, and and that's hard. You're not gonna get that right all the time, but just like, okay, this is something I have a tendency to do. Let me make sure I don't do that, especially with this person in front of me. And I may not even know their type. It's just like I know that they kind of process, they might talk a little slower, they're taking a breath, and I'm thinking, oh, great, it's an invitation to say something. It's like, no, no, no. It is a comma, not a period. So let them finish. So sometimes I have to be like, okay, one, two, three. Oh, okay. They're, they're, they're continuing to talk. Glad I didn't interrupt. Um, and that's something that has come up in our workshops, is just the different, like, I don't know, collaboration styles, communication styles. Um, so that's a that's a good one that kind of goes to type and instinctual bias can kind of show up in those in those different ways. Um, the third one that I had has to do specifically with a five. And again, I'm I'm kind of approaching this as a type seven, and I'm approaching this as you know, Sarah Wallace type seven. Um, some this is Susan, but um, and I've I used to have some version of this before, but I just notice it. Um with sometimes my relationship with fives or how how we show up, and there's not a lot in the workshops that I do, by the way. Um but it is where, and we'll talk about how a lot of times everything that's happening with a five is in their heads. And so they don't get really emotive, they don't talk with their hands, they don't raise their eyebrows, typically aren't like smiling, they're typically not nodding along. And so I'm like, are you paying like are you paying attention? Are you in are you bored? Am I being boring? And so when we did our rebrand here at Enneagram MBA, it's been almost a year now, a year and a half, I guess. Um, one of the designers was a type five, and we talked kind of talked about this. And in our initial strategy session, I would be like talking and I'd be like, I want this, I'm thinking this, and literally I'm moving with my hands, I'm like my voice tonality is changing. And he's just kind of like, when I get done talking, kind of nods. Okay. Okay. And I'm like, oh man, am I like, am I saying something stupid? Does he not agree? Like, I'm not, is he not excited about this? Am I being boring? And so we later kind of talked about things like that, where um it's just a different, again, just different communication style. Because what would happen was he would come back. He came back the next day, and this happened multiple times when we would have a call. I didn't feel like, is he not excited? Was that not a good idea? And then he would say something incredibly insightful or be able to put what I was trying to say into like such clarity. And I was like, yes, that is what I was trying to say. Thank you. Yes. And so, you know, again, I think the the takeaway is just, you know, understanding your style and then somebody else's and not trying to make up a story about it. Um, or if you are, you could say, like, the story, you know, that therapy, like the story I'm telling myself is that you're bored or you're checked out. Um, because I've heard other people will will comment that about type five sometimes, or on the on the other end, say, the story I'm telling myself is that you're interrupting me as a type seven and you don't care what you what I have to say. It's more about what you have, what I, what you have to say versus listening to me. Um, so there's different ways that you can kind of approach that. But I thought that's a really interesting, um, that's a very specific example of just kind of very different communication styles and and interaction styles, um, but still can work so well because he was able to listen, observe, articulate what all of my excitement and all my words, he was able to kind of simply distill it down.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah. You know, keep it simple. Yeah, I yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah. No, I can easily see that happening.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Oh yeah, my third one. I I probably gonna go with working with the one, um and having that that what I I call the dynamic, the dynamic there is that uh vision versus precision uh um space where you know I'm coming in with this big vision and how we're gonna do these things, and they want to dive into uh the details uh of that and structure and those things, and it's great. And at the same time, uh I think for someone who wants to again accomplish things that have impact, I still don't feel although I like things done well, I don't have a belief of anything being perfect. And so, but when working with someone in that one space, it's this whole thing of you know the imperfection and stuff within fights against the tension becomes I want pace, I want a faster pace. They they're looking for what are the imperfections, what's not ready. And so you know, I remember this incident in where you know we had a conversation and like you're moving way too fast.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

You're glossing over details.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

And one of those things for me when that those things kind of happen is you know, then it's the criticism. And then and this is where I feel my especially my the lens comes in because we take criticism like 10 times more than most folks. Oh and so when that hits, then it's like whoa, then we you know get into this space. And this is the interesting piece where for me understanding ADHD and understanding operating as a three, I don't so I'll I'll get hit with it, you know, like oh wow, okay, I need to look at this, you know, I'll I'll pull back. But then because naturally I operate that three space, it hits, I take it in, I go, all right, and then I'm like, all right, so and here's what we're gonna do. And right, and here's how we're gonna move forward because it's I still need to make an impact. We still need to get this done. And me uh staying in this stuck space is not gonna make that happen. And so, and I had to have that conversation because the question was, do you care? When I share these things with you, do you care? And I was like, Yes, I do. And I acknowledged it, right? So it's not like I didn't acknowledge it. It's like I acknowledge it, I apologized for it, and then I moved on. It's like I'm not going to um I'm not gonna stay stuck in it. And at the same time, what I've learned, and kind of in the same space that you're in, that if I can still slow that momentum a little bit, um so that they do feel like there was more impact uh from what they were sharing, because the impact's there. But letting them know that the impact was there and what that is, and a lot of time it is a pace, it is the pacing of what that is.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I think that helps a lot.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

And and I I use uh a one in the example, but I think I found that with a lot of uh you know, the ones, the sixes, nines, um folks that operate from those styles tend to be like, hold on, if I just share something with you, I need to uh fours especially. Um you know, we need to we need to dive into what that is and and they need to feel validated that what they shared was um was heard.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

What are your thoughts on that? I see your your wheels turning.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Well, uh I was thinking actually you spurred a a a bonus one that I was hoping that we could do. Always thinking because I was thinking about the type one and I was like, oh, you know, um I was thinking about type one and my parenting. Um, like that's so for as a seven, um, and this is what I was gonna put you on the spot about is just like maybe we kind of close out with like what we've learned about with our, you know, you we call them growth arrows, resource points, neglected strategy, um, like all different kinds of names. But I I really do think about those so much um in my own professional development, personal growth, and as a parent. So um I was thinking as a seven routine structure, consistency. Um, I really struggle with the chore chart and um those types of things. Like we always when I order all this stuff, the calendars from Amazon, get these little checklist things, calendars, and we use it for a day, or if we're lucky, maybe a week, and then it's like out the window. Um, so I really have to think about that. But what I was what I was thinking is the the my growth arrows are the the one and the five slowing down, being more thoughtful, um not jumping into every exciting idea, being okay with solitude at times. And uh those that has really helped me at work. Um, even with with friends, um, I think the the one there is not because I want to say yes to everything, and then I'm running late to everything, or I'm overwhelmed, or I'm tired. And then so what I've started to do is say, I want to let me get back to you and let you know for sure I can get back to you by the end of the day or by tomorrow. Um, and then for type one thinking like parenting, I kind of mentioned, but also even like my work day to day, my you know, my schedule, the routines. I think there are some ways to put like guardrails on on my day or on my ideas or my goal, whatever that might be, so that I am not kind of I'm completing the bridges, not just building new bridges. Um I've also thought about growth with the instinctual biases. And I'd be curious, I know you kind of mentioned the the navigating piece and just others' awareness earlier, but I think for me, realizing as I think I I think I really do identify with the transmitter energy. And so even as I do my role here, um thinking about as I want to grow in the Agram MBA, what's what is for me to lean more into? And so I've got you know, more of the visibility, the promotion, the marketing, the business development type of thing I would love to have more time to do. Um and then the thing that I'm not so great at doesn't mean that I shouldn't necessarily pay attention to that at all. But are there people around me that might be better at kind of that navigating piece that could either I could fold them into the workshop experience or the one-on-one coaching experiences? And so I, you know, I may not have all the answers, but these are things that I'm I'm always thinking about reflecting on, um, both with my my type and then those instinctual biases. Would you would you say, is there anything that comes up for you when you think about your growth arrows or the instinctual biases?

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah, a lot. Uh um, well, I like you say, I shared from the instinctual bias piece that we'll be trying to well, I thought about leaning into that navigating space um and slowing down and asking more questions and being intentional about that. Space that I probably should be putting even more time into is the preserving and taking care of self because I suck at it. Um and at the same time, so trying to be more intentional with that and and you know, doing the things that are going to be able to enable me to actually get things done, right? Because it's almost going to the analogy of that that analogy that they share um on the airplane. You gotta take care of yourself first in order to be to be able to take care of others. And so really trying to keep that in mind um from that perspective. The other piece I would be I'm I'm gonna go your direction and thinking about how much my kiddo actually having my youngest son.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

My oldest son Yep, because I have a I have a son every 24 years. I have a 34-year-old and a 10-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Let's when I had my 24 year my 34-year-old, I was young and uh totally different mindset uh as far as just how I did things, right? Still always wanting to get things done, still wanting to be impactful. But it was just a lot different. And even the generations of of how our kids interacted with parents was different. And so one of the things that come up for me again in that 3D space of always wanting to have impact, get things done, those types of things. There's times where, and this kind of goes back to the theme of slowing down, which is where, and I share this a lot, this story, because it's a very impactful story with my kiddo, where um, you know, I was doing, we were outside playing, he was being a kid, doing what a kid does, climbing on top of something, because he loves to climb and jump off of all kinds of things. Um, I would not be surprised if he ends up getting into parkour or something.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah. And so with that, looking at him doing the dad thing of, hey, hey, hey, hey, want to be careful with that. You're gonna fall and hurt yourself. Right? And what happens? He falls and hurts himself, right? And so go right into three dad mode, how D does it, and it's like, hey, bud, well, you know, and you listen, may not be going through this right now.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

And he looks at me and he goes, empathy first, daddy. Empathy first. And I was like, You don't know me.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

It's like Yes, yes, and and understanding that that's not only important for him, but it's important for a lot of the relationships that I have, whether they're professional or personal, is to be able to step and stay in that space a little longer. Because again, it wasn't like I didn't have empathy for him. And it was like, but what are we learning, right? What are we doing so that this doesn't happen again, right? So taking that in. So it's again slowing down to let those to be in those spaces, uh, which actually helps with me because it helps him build trust. Um, and I say him, but again, any relationship I have, it helps to build trust around that. And it's not to be because I think a lot of times when I think about that, I think about the anxiousness that comes with it when folks are all like, oh, oh, what are you what's happening, right? And it's not about anxiousness, it's it's actually more about being anchored. Like, how how can I be anchored? How can I really be grounded to be in that spaces so that I don't need to and I share part as you know, being being a male in this world, being a black male in this world, being a black male from the hood in this world, being a veteran, black male from the hood in this male in this world. Like when I think about all those things that come in and operating from that three space, a lot of my life and a lot of all the things that I showed up is how do I look? Do I look a certain way? Right? Am I being seen? How am I being seen? Um, and the growth space for that, and this is kind of when you're talking about the growth being into that sixth space is getting away from how being seen in in a certain way. Like I don't need to be seen certain, like I know what I'm doing. I need to be seen as trustworthy. Can people trust me? And a lot of times, you know, we all know that a lot of folks don't trust the three because they're like, but's the mask? Who are you really? Right? Are you really okay? And so that's that's my space for the three, is is am I am I in a space that folks can feel that I'm trustworthy? Well, harder and not, because at the same time folks joke with me that and I even own it, that I I say that I'm not a human being. I say that I'm a human doing. And so for me, and I think about the non-spaces, how do I move from doing to being? Um and again, the the theme that tends to slow be in my space is slowing down, stillness, presence, um, non-performance. And so what's my what's my self-worth without productivity?

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

What's my self-worth without productivity? Um and again, it's a little harder for me being in that transmitting space, being, you know, having ADHD. Um because I want to be doing something. I need the dopamine that productivity gives me the dopamine that I'm seeking. And at the same time, if I'm constantly producing, constantly producing, at some point uh I'm hitting production at a risk of burnout and exhaustion. And for me as a dad and as a husband, I need to have energy for family. Um so that you know a kid all wants to wrestle or we want to go do something, we can do those things um together and not like oh well you know dad starts so right you gotta get the rest so that you can be outstanding.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Yeah right um it's changing the the narrative for all all of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Right? And so for me it's not disappearing when I slow down though. Because that's the other part. The other times when I do slow down, it's like because in when you when I as a someone offering that three transmitting space, it typically takes up so much space, but when I do slow down, I tend to sometimes just disappear altogether. It's like I'm out.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

And that's also not it's not good and it's definitely not sustainable. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Yeah, I think I I think the takeaway for others, I I always think it's kind of fun just to hear like specific stories and real world ways that people are using it. So hopefully this was kind of fun. And then also, you know, you listeners can be kind of thinking and reflecting. Like, if you've been through one of our workshops or you've been learning about the Enneagram on your own, what what are ways? Just kind of take inventory. Like, what are the ways that you've used it this year? How has it helped you? What strengths do you want to lean more into? What's something maybe you want to grow in? And definitely don't overwhelm yourself. Don't have 10 things you want to work on, right? Just like, what's that one thing you kind of want to work on, whether it has to do with the instinctual bias or you're the type. Um, and uh just continuing to look for ways to bring awareness to yourself, to others, and then using that intentional action to better have relationships, grow in your role, uh, attain your goals, don't burn yourself, you know, whatever those things are. Um, so looking at as you set your 2026 goals, resolutions, how can you use what you've learned about yourself into some of those? So hopefully this gives you some ideas, some fun insight to get to know D and I a little bit more. Um, with that, would you have any final words that would make this episode feel complete, Dee?

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Uh just tagging on what you just said, um I'm sure folks have probably heard this before, but it's great to be have awareness, but we also need to have action. Um, and so to your point, uh what are you doing? Right. So learning this, learning, using this as a tool and learning about yourself is great. But then what are you doing? Um, and so and even as practitioners, please know that no one's perfect. Um and so we're always continuing to do the work and staying curious and figuring out how we can be better, what does that look like? And so um, in the words of trust leadership collective, growth is the goal. Just keep that in mind, right? Growth is the goal. And so what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 47:23

Yeah, that's such a great one. Well, um, with that, I will remind you that uh the what Dee and I do are Enneagram workshops bringing self-awareness, others awareness. So as you look to kick off your 2026 with your own team or plan a summer retreat, um please keep us in mind. Um our Enneagram MBA options are over at Enneagram MBA.com. Dee is a part of uh those trainees. He will lead workshops leadership team specifically. So uh please keep us in mind. You can check out those initial options with that. Happy holidays if you happen to be listening to this in real time. Um ever you're listening to this. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you in the next one.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Thank you.