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Welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram at Work Podcast. I am your host, Sarah Wallace, managing director and founder here at Enneagram MBA, a team training company. Today we are looking at another coworker matchup, the type 5 striving to feel detached, and the type 7 striving to feel excited. And we're going to talk about the strengths of this pairing, potential friction points. I had somebody ask about my cheetah print or leopard print, I'm not sure which one it was. Uh wallpaper that is typically behind me. And uh, if you are listening to this, you won't notice. But if you happen to be watching, I actually moved my office out to my sunroom for the summer. Um, we'll see the speaking of sevens, uh, just needed something new. Uh, all the sunlight coming in just felt extra, you know, kind of take advantage of the uh extra daylight in the morning and of an evening. And uh I got all these birds chirping around me and squirrels. Uh, and uh it just felt a little bit more exciting to be out here than the cozy little cheetah room that I have. So I most likely will move back. Um, but for now, I'm out here in the sun room, and that's why the background is different. All right. So today we're talking about type five, striving to feel detached. And this person, um, sometimes you'll see them called the observer. Their leadership style, according to the awareness to action uh methodology, is called the strategist. Uh, and I think as we get into this, you'll see why. Um, these people are really focused on being capable, competent, and self-sufficient. They don't need a lot from anyone, or they don't want to need a lot from anyone anyway, and they don't really want you to need a lot from them. Um, they are very driven by the need to feel capable and competent to have that within them, uh, knowledgeable and then um self-sufficient so that they don't need anybody else. And that can show up in things at work with actions like researching, um, careful observation, hence the observer nickname, and a strong need to conserve their energy. And that is where some of that striving to feel detached will come in. They tend to be out of all the types very aware of how much they have in the tank. And so we always say with our type fives, they want to be invited most of the time, want to be invited to happy hour, but most of the time they're probably not gonna go because they're done for the day. They know, hey, I'm not gonna push it. I need to go home. I need to recharge. And we're gonna come back to that because that is one of the differences between the five and the seven, how they recharge. Um, but it doesn't mean they cannot be a great team member. Um, they absolutely can, but a lot of times it's like, let's break up what we need to do. Everybody work on their own thing. I'm gonna take mine, I'm gonna get into deep focus, I'm gonna get into a place of kind of flow. And I don't really want to be bothered with group chat jokes. I might take myself off the uh funny meme group chat. Uh, probably if I if I can avoid it, not gonna be connecting throughout the day during Slack. And if I have to, it might annoy me a little bit. Uh, these people typically don't have a philosophy for an open door policy. It's like, nope, my door is closed. Um, I will open it once you schedule an appointment, once you prepare for what you want to say to me. Um, this is typically not the person that you just want to kind of pop in and pepper with questions or pop into their office with your cup of coffee and uh chat about the weekend. Again, they're not antisocial. It's just the way that their brain works. They like to go deep on topics like to deep do deep work. And in order to do that, you do have to have the space to process and look into that. Um, I guess one of their fears can be around one of the reasons why they might manage that, their energy, their time so meticulously is because there is an underlying fear that someone, the company, the the world around them will ask more of them than they have to give. So they want to avoid being in that position. Whereas our sevens, striving to feel excited, they want to feel stimulated and they want to be free and have flexibility and options and live in a place full of potential and possibility. Very much the glass is half full, rose colored glasses. Um, they are going to show up with enthusiasm according to the awareness to action leadership style. They are known as the enthusiast leadership style. Uh, they have very quick brainstorming ideation, um, and they will pull away, run away, get away uh from anything that feels any, especially feelings that can feel uncomfortable, painful, um, limiting, or slow. So there is a little bit of overlap right there, even with the type five, who also doesn't want to get entangled into emotional drama. They their philosophy is kind of show me the data, don't give me the drama. Um, sevens, not exactly the same, but still wanting to keep it positive and not kind of quote unquote wallow in the negative feeling. So there is a similarity of um kind of avoiding certain emotions, feelings, and then also autonomy is incredibly important to both of these types. And it's a little bit different than the type eight autonomy, where typically it's um, I don't want anybody to tell me what to do, but I'm happy to step in when needed and tell others what to do. Typically, that this is just that they have natural leadership abilities as a type eight. Um, whereas both the five and the seven, they have a tendency to, hey, I don't want anybody to tell me what to do necessarily. And then I also don't want to have to tell anybody else what to do and be responsible for somebody else. Um, for a five, it's kind of that sense of more, more to manage, more relationships, more personality, more feelings to manage on that end. Um, so that there are some things that they have in uh in common. The these two don't get confused too often. Uh, am I this type or am I that type? But it but it does happen, and that is one of the reasons why. Um sevens can have a reputation for being flaky, uh, but really it and and and maybe it might be. I think when it's when it's dialed in or when it's better understood, it is just they truly have um, they truly have a desire. It it is incredibly exciting, feels genuinely energizing to think about what's next, to focus on what else could we do? What are the possibilities? What could go right? What's around the corner? Um, and then for them, one of their core fears is being trapped in some of those negative feelings or being deprived of options and possibilities. And also it can be scary to a seven to slow down long enough to feel those things. Um, and that sometimes is what is behind that kind of quick start energy. It can be really good, but it can also be a coping mechanism. So um our fives striving to feel capable, competent, ultimately striving to feel detached. Um, they will do that by going inward, going deep, and conserving their energy. Whereas you have the sevens who are striving to feel excited, satisfied, and they are going to do that more outwardly by going wide and expanding the possibilities, the options, the activities that they are doing. And so one will kind of go within to fill up their their energy tank, and then the other will expand and go outward to fill up their energy tank. Now, that is not to say that all sevens are extroverts and just constantly want to be extroverting. Um, a lot of sevens will talk about how it can be actually very tiring to be always um known as the, you know, the life, quote unquote life of the party, always feel like they have to be the extrovert. But sevens will say, you know, I don't always want to do it, but it it feels like it's my responsibility to kind of keep the energy up, to keep people excited, to keep people inspired and motivated. And uh it's similar to what we've talked about with type eights in the past, where you know, sometimes I don't want to be in charge, but it feels like nobody else is doing it. So I need to step in and take over here. That can be the seven as far as, you know, I don't know the official word for it, but kind of the vibe keeper, keeper of the vibe staying high. So these two can be an incredibly powerful duo. And then there can be some incredibly frustrating friction that happens. And we're gonna talk about some things so that if you are one of these two types or you are managing these two types, um, you have an idea of what might be going on underneath the surface of what might be regular butting of the heads. Um, and then how to maybe tweak a few things specifically around your perspective, how you might think about the story that we are telling ourselves about the other person, so that we can appreciate them more, we can understand them more and ideally work better together for productivity purposes, for success purposes, but also um to make work that much more enjoyable and ideally less stressful. So um we're gonna talk about the strengths, potential friction points. We're gonna look at what it might look like. If your boss is a type five, leading a seven, we're gonna do the inverse of that. If your boss is a seven, leading a five, um, just kind of peer-to-peer matchup. And then uh a couple of things to think about for growth, uh, specifically working with each other for both of these types. So, with that, let's start off with the positives, uh, looking at the strengths of the this duo. Okay, let me get my notes up here. Okay, so we have, um, and I already kind of alluded to this a little bit, we have the type five who is focused on depth, and then we have this uh type seven who is more interested in going wide. Um, together, they can be such a credible, incredible duel because they're they're kind of covering it all um when they're when they're teaming up. The five might catch what the seven skips over with that with that wide net that they're casting. And then the seven might be able to open some new doors, share some new possibilities that the five would have never thought of, or doors that they never would have imagined knocking on. So they can be really uh helpful to each other in that way. Um, the seven can help the five be more uh productive because sometimes fives can get caught in paralysis analysis. That is one of the um opportunities for growth for our fives that they have to watch out for. It's that that deep look into things, the depth that they go, the the how much they get into a topic can be such an incredible strength. You really know that they have done their research when they come to you with an idea or a proposal. Um, but that same strength when it's overused, they can just keep researching and researching and researching, thinking, thinking, thinking pros and cons, what to do. Um, and this is different than what we talked about with last week with the type nines who might struggle uh at some points with uh slowing things down because they want to build a consensus, they want to hear from everybody, um, make sure everybody feels seen and heard. Fives, most of the time they're wanting to slow down and process, but internally and usually just uh by themselves. Um, so they can get stuck in that mode, but the sevens excitement for a new idea, their enthusiasm, um, kind of that quick start energy can really draw a five out of their shell and maybe get them excited as well, kind of create some momentum that gets ideas and research off the ground and into the real world. Then on the flip side, uh we have the sevens who sometimes will just kind of skip over things. And when they're working with a five, they can tap into the five strengths of being rigorous, of being a little bit more thoughtful when it comes to decision making, when it comes to planning, when it even when it comes to communicating. So typically a seven is gonna generate ideas really fast and they're gonna commit, they're gonna have that commitment come a little slower. So a five's ability to go deep to research, to maybe have some natural skepticism baked in, can help a seven test those ideas before they jump in, you know, before you announce it to the whole company that this is what you're doing. Get with your type five teammate here and hash it out. And there's probably going to be some things that you've missed that you haven't thought about that you need to dig into a little bit more. So that can be a genuinely um valuable pairing. Um, something that maybe a seven doesn't always appreciate in the moment because it can feel like they're slowing them down. But when you're really both when you're both really in a good place, you can have a lot of appreciation for each other for those differences and how you can complement each other so well. Um, both types are intellectually driven. Um, we don't talk a whole lot about the head, heart, gut uh centers. There are parts of the Enneagram or there are versions of the Enneagram that they do look at this. And if that happens to be you, the five and the seven are both in that head-centered type where they both have a love for ideas. Um, they have a um a big desire to learn new things. Curiosity is a is a pillar for both of these. And so when they both find a topic that they're excited about, the brainstorming, the conversation, the planning um can be incredibly exciting, um, incredibly, you know, uh powerful, electric. And it can be, it can, it can um, it can spawn uh a lot of great ideas potentially. Um, and then they have not the same energy by any means, but we've kind of alluded to that their complementary energy, where we have the five who is bringing steadiness, steadiness. I can't talk, steadiness, um a little bit more quiet thoughtfulness, they're bringing depth, they're bringing follow through, and then we have our seventh who's complementing that with a quick start or a spark, um, optimism that's bringing uh the ability to make hard things feel like it's possible, maybe even interesting. So when both teammates are dialed in, you know, they're they're functioning, appreciating each other. Um, this combination can be so so exciting and uh and really uh birth some inventive ideas. Now with all of these, there are going to be some potential friction points. Again, this is not a this will absolutely happen. Um, this is a possible things to watch out for if you're butting up against this. This might be why. Some things to look at uh if you are starting a project with one another, some things to potentially anticipate, so that you most likely won't avoid it altogether, but maybe you can get through it that much faster. So the first one is just, I mean, it's it's gonna be this the the speed in which you make decisions and which you start. Um, there can be some mismatch at times. It can be a compliment, but it there can also, it can also cause some friction. So the the type seven um has kind of a default quick start mode. Um, they decide fast and they want to jump in and move fast. The five, however, wants to think it through. They want to process. Maybe you have a pros and cons list and and look at it again and again. Maybe do a little bit more research, think about it a little bit more before they arrive at the decision, the recommendation that they want to make. Um the five, because of that, can feel like the seven is being completely reckless. It's like this fast pace feels reckless, irresponsible, um maybe immature. And then the seven can think it can feel very frustrating because um it's there, they don't the fives aren't gonna be as emotive. They're probably not gonna be as excited as the seven, even if they are on the inside. Um, on the outside, you they they may not be um probably will not be matching the seven's excitement. Um, and they're gonna have some hesitation and it can feel like they're slowing things down or they're being negative. And then another potential point of friction is gonna be this kind of idea of depth versus novelty. The five is going to want to fully understand, comprehend whatever it is they're focused on, typically one thing, where the seven kind of has a tendency to want to know about everything, kind of want to touch it all. Um, and so this might look like in the workplace, a seven keeps introducing new ideas before the five has even finished with the last one. So the five might start to lose trust and the seven's ability to actually be able to execute. And then all of those what at one point seemed like exciting, inspiring ideas, don't feel like they will ever happen, and that can be incredibly discouraging to a type five. Um, there are going to be some potential friction points around energy levels and presence. And so the fives are very selective about their energy. They kind of gatekeep. Um, whenever we talk about growth opportunities, sometimes I'll talk about how a type two can really learn from the type five's ability to set usually really healthy boundaries. Whereas a type two is always wanting to say kind of yes, yes, yes, I'm gonna put on everyone else's oxygen mask before mine. Um, whereas a five, it's just it's gonna be, they're gonna be a little bit more um uh what what is the word? A little bit more thoughtful, uh, maybe even rigid about where they put their energy and who they give their energy to. Where sevens have a tendency to pour their energy all out. You know, I'm I'm I'm not thinking about it, I'm not thinking about measuring it, I'm not thinking about saving it. It's like in this moment, I am as a seven sharing my energy. I don't have a lot of um, I'm not necessarily thinking about who deserves my energy or how much energy I have to give to certain people or certain topics. And so um that can be a little draining for the type five working with the type seven. It can feel a little overwhelming for somebody who's Who needs to think things through typically more slowly, typically more quietly, and usually by themselves. So the five, though, when they get overwhelmed, they might withdraw. And that withdrawing can feel like rejection to a type seven who has just shared this really exciting idea or conversation. And so there could be some friction around that dynamic. Um, there's also going to be some friction around commitment and follow-through. Sevens are incredible, maybe one of the best up there with the eights, maybe the threes at getting things started, but can struggle to finish. We always talk about this. We always talk about um they're great at starting bridges, but finishing the bridges that can actually be used, um, a little bit more challenging. It doesn't necessarily come natural because they're off to the next idea. Um, a five is going to commit much more slowly. They're not gonna just jump in, they're not gonna say okay, they're not gonna get too excited until they've had time to understand it, look into it. But then once they do commit, they are fully in it. They are, it is, they're gonna, they're gonna, it's gonna get done. You can count on that. So when a seven might hand off an idea that they've already lost interest in, the five might have to pick it up and they're thinking, gosh, well, am I the only one who takes this work seriously? Um, and then they can start to feel like I'm on cleanup duty for the seven, like they're just coming up with all these reckless ideas, starting all of these projects, willy-nilly, and then I have to go behind them and either figure it out, finish it, or figure out out how to how to get get out of it. And then the last one that I have here is um they both, I talked about this at the beginning, they both have a tendency to avoid difficult situations, but but kind of from different directions. So um both types in their own way are have a tendency, again, this is we're talking stereotypes right here. Um, a lot of fives, a lot of sevens have been to therapy, have had a lot of self-awareness, professional development work, and this is no longer a struggle for them. So just be careful about thinking, oh, all sevens and fives are this way. Um, but this can be a common challenge initially, um, where they both struggle with sitting with hard things. The seven wants to turn away from the pain through staying busy, being active, thinking about the positive. Okay, well, that's a downer to think about. Let's think about something a little bit more optimistic. And then the five is going to manage those difficult feelings by retreating, going within, um, typically retreating into their own heads. And neither is going to want to sit long enough to emotionally process any of that, which means that having, because we are human, we are human beings, we are going to have difficult things happen to us outside of work that we end up bringing with us because we're humans. Um, difficult things, stress, um, you know, worry, whatever the feeling might be, will happen at work. And both of these types are gonna have some difficulty having conversations about the feelings of those situations, um, without either compartmentalizing or over, you know, jumping into problem solving or trying to jump into reframing it. Oh, you know, everything happens for a reason, or just hoping, or probably both of them, just hoping it quietly resolves itself or goes away, which uh unfortunately very rarely happens. So that that will be an opportunity for growth for both of them. Um, but when they are together, um, they can frustrate others specifically with that point. Um now you can imagine, based on what we just talked about, they are going to also have some very different communication styles. Uh, the five is going to tend is has a tendency to be uh even just in the way, literally the way that they speak is going to be a little slower. There it the words are gonna come out a little slower. Um, they're gonna be very careful, they're gonna consider their words, they're going to say what they mean and mean what they say. There's not gonna be a lot of emotional reaction, either, you know, sad, mad, or happy or excited. Um, they're just kind of gonna say, say what it is. Um, and they can get frustrated with types like a seven or maybe even like an eight, uh, who they're pausing and they're thinking, but the sevens thinking, oh, they're done, it's my turn now to talk. And a seven might think, oh, we're collaborating, we're jiving here. Uh, but a five might feel like I keep getting interrupted and they're not letting me finish my thoughts. So if you know that you are working with a type five, any type, but especially if you know you have a tendency to um to struggle with quiet space, even if it's you know, a second or two, um to do your best to count to five before you say something, or you might need to count to ten. Or, you know, just pause before you jump in. And just because you ask a five a question and they don't answer right away, it doesn't mean that they didn't hear you. Let them ask you to repeat it. Um, they're just forming what they are going to say. Uh, a lot of fives too might prefer written communication because they can process it without having to immediately respond. Um, it's a little bit more structured and there's not as much pressure to in the moment come up with a response. So, you know, that is something to know about your type five teammate in general, but especially if you tend to be one of the more quick starters just kind of jump in and start talking types, like a seven, maybe like a three, maybe like an eight. Um, you can withdraw as a type five, go quiet when you are feeling overstimulated. And then on the receiving end, that quietness that you're needing because you're feeling overwhelmed as a type five can be read by the seven as they don't care, aloofness, disengagement, um even maybe like a negative, like they don't agree, but they just don't want to say anything. Um so you know, that will be a dynamic that both people will kind of have to work on uh changing the story that they're probably telling themselves about what that means. And then um they will they will pull back um emotionally, mentally, physically, conversationally, when their energy reserves are tapped out. It is not personal, it is it they it's not that they don't like you, um, but it can feel that way. Especially maybe to in this in this situation to a seven. So just remembering, mem remembering that about your type five uh teammate. Now, a seven, they're talking, their communication style is going to be much different. They tend to be very fast talkers, very expressive with their tonality, the delivery of how they're saying something, their hands, they're probably gonna emote a lot. Um, one idea leads to another idea and leads to another idea, leads to six more ideas. Uh, they prefer, I don't, I don't know if they prefer it. They love a good brainstorming session where you're just kind of riffing off one another. That's where that like somebody might see it as interrupting, but to a seven, it feels like, oh, we're riffing off each other. We're um, we're just we're collaborating over here, coming up with ideas. Um, it doesn't feel like interrupting to me. Sevens tend to be more verbal processing versus kind of that written that a seven or a five prefers. They're they like to think out loud um a lot of times, but and they can struggle though to land on a clear kind of next step, a final point. Um because sometimes, and I'm laughing because I as a type seven, I'm like, yeah, I I I get it. This is me at times, um, because that the conversation itself sometimes that brainstorming can feel like the point, you know, and and we'll get to it eventually, but this is one of the biggest differentiators between a type three and a type seven, um, is this pontificating brainstorming, where a three most of the time would prefer not to be there. Just tell me what you decide on and tell me what our initiatives, our goals are, due dates, let me know afterwards. Whereas a seven just really tends to love a good whiteboard session. Um, and that can feel like, well, I don't know what what goals came out of that. We just were we were just brainstorming, and that feels like the goal and of itself. Um, and then I think around communication, the last thing for a seven to just be aware of is that you may skim over concerns, nuances, critical feedback in favor of keeping the energy high. And we will talk about this with our sixes at some point too. The six and seven uh I don't know if we have anybody, if any, if any other parents are out there who are the six, seven. I can't, I can't, I can't not say it and think the six, seven things. So I'm I can't I can't wait for that to can't wait for that to end in my mind, but it's still there. So uh we're we are gonna talk about the six and seven uh relationship at some point as well. And this is uh a very similar situation that we have with the fives and the sevens, where it's like, oh, these questions, the need for more information. It feels like we're killing the vibe, it feels like we're slowing down. Um, when in reality, it's probably really important questions and information to be considering. So a five kind of the how this boils down when you're thinking about communication. A five really does need time and space and ideally quiet in order for them to do their best thinking. Whereas a seven is going to need more movement and stimulation in order to bring their best thinking into the light. So, you know, if if if you're not accounting for that, or if you're thinking there should be one way to get to a decision, one way to communicate, um, you know, you might isolate one or the other, the fives thinking that, you know, the fives may never say what they actually think. And then the seven might end up saying, you know, 17 things, um, and none of them sticking. So as much as you can to help with this, give the five the agenda in advance. Let them know what's going to be expected of them, if they're going to be expected to participate, what topics are going to be introduced, and then give the seven, maybe, you know, a partner, a thinking partner, a brainstorm partner who can kind of keep up. And so when both of these types understand each other, can kind of meet each other where they are, they can really produce some of the most interesting ideas, problem solving work, projects out of anybody in the whole room. Now, when you have a type five leader who is leading a seven as a direct report, the seven leader uh will hopefully value the creativity and the energy of a seven up to a point. Again, gotta dial it in as a seven direct report here. Um, it's a strength until it's overused. And so that sevens enthusiasm. I guess, I guess the the point is of kind of when it's dialed up and becomes an overuse strength versus a dialed in strength, is when the that sevens enthusiasm and idea generation starts to outpace their ability to execute and follow through. So they'll start to notice that five leader will pull back some of the trust that they had put into that seven initially when they realize, okay, this person, you know, is they're excited, but they're unable to make things happen. Um, and because fives don't always love to um have some of those hard conversations, but they are absolutely capable of. And I wanna I want to touch on that in just a minute. Um, because they tend to not take a lot of things personal. And so they might say things that other people take personal, but again, it's it's just like show me the data, don't give me the drama. Like, I am just sharing facts with you. Um, but also sometimes it can be similar to the type nine. Like, is this worth my energy? Do I have enough energy for this conversation to push back and to address this issue directly with my seven uh direct report here? So that can be a situation that's playing out. Um, and then you know, the seven does need regular, interesting things to work on, stimulation, a variety of things to work on, to focus on, to talk about in order to stay engaged. And a five leader who tends to run really structured, um maybe low-key, kind of saving their energy, running on, you know, a lean lean processes and systems, um can create an environment where a seven just starts to mentally check out. So something to be cautious of if you are a type five leader leading a seven. Um the five typically won't have a reputation for overcommunicating, but there may be situations with that seven direct report where you do need to over-communicate the context and the vision more than what you feel is necessary because it is important for that seven to stay engaged, to stay productive, to stay collaborative, that they're able to see the exciting destination um that the team is going in in order to keep motivated. Um, and ideally keep everybody else motivated and excited too. So a growth opportunity for our type five leader in this dynamic is that your seven is to remember that your seven direct rapport is not being irresponsible. They're just motivated. They are um they're striving to feel excited. So that is going to be a different fuel than yours. So finding ways to channel all of the energy that they have rather than contain it is really going to help you get the most out of your type seven direct report. When the roles are reversed and we have a seven leader leading a type five direct report, the sevens liter pace, um their ability to change and pivot can be such a strength. And again, when overdone or used too often, it can feel really um destabilizing, um, chaotic, I guess is the word that I was looking for. Um it can feel uh I guess, yeah, chaotic, I guess is what I'll say. For a five who really does value clarity and consistency in order to do their best work. Remember, this is somebody who wants to go deep, but when the objective is always changing, when the project's always changing, when a new bridge is always being started without being completed, that's re it's really hard to go deep in. Um the five is going to deliver the depth and that that is needed. They're gonna have the research, the sources. Um, when they are given that real autonomy, and when the direction is clearly laid out, the scope of the project is incredibly uh clear. Um, but may struggle to kind of shift gears mid-project, and a seven isn't gonna think twice about it, most likely. It's just, oh, we just we just okay, we need to change, we need to do this. And it's not going to seem like a big deal to them, but just know that it can feel incredibly disruptive and incredibly frustrating to your type five team members. So you might need if if in case if if is is the case where it is absolutely necessary, you might have to just over-communicate um why the change is happening. Uh, let's see. And then I guess the last one here is just as a seven leader, remembering to create space for the five to process, to get their thoughts together, um, maybe to do their own analysis and own research before a decision is made. Um not just as a checkbox. You just don't want them doing work for the sake of doing work. That's not going to feel good to them either. Um, but but you really do want their genuine input. So, in order to get that, you need to allow them the space, the time to do that. So, a growth opportunity for our seven leaders is for um you not to tell yourself the story that your type five direct report is being slow or negative or resistant. They're truly being thorough. They they wanna they want to make sure that they're bringing their most capable, competent self to this project. Um and, you know, as a seven leader, appreciating their thoroughness is is gonna make that dynamic. This is gonna make them feel appreciated. Um, it's gonna keep them motivated, keep them wanting to uh show up for you. And then when we have a five and a seven kind of peer-to-peer, team member to team member working together, um, it can be such a powerful pairing when the roles are clear, like any pairing, right? Um, so in this situation, looking at how the five, what where are the ways in which we can have the five own the research part of this, the execution part, the rigor part? Um, and then we can have the seven who owns casting the vision, um, setting the momentum, keeping the momentum going. And that together can be incredibly powerful. Um, have a lot of success with that pairing. Um the seven will need to fight their urge to reframe or redirect when the five is still, you know, in the middle of making a point. We talked about how incredibly frustrating it is to be interrupted. So be cautious of that as a type seven team member to um allow them to finish saying what they're what they want to say before you jump in and and and uh take it and make it your own and take it somewhere maybe they didn't intend for it to go. And then a five can can get along better with their type seven teammate by remembering um to share their thinking, that brainstorming uh before it's fully finished. Um and that will that is gonna help your type seven teammates stay engaged with you uh before they feel like, okay, I'm moving on to the next thing. The more you can share, um, the more that they're going to kind of keep coming back, talking um before they're ready to move on to the next thing. And then uh with both of these, there is lots of growth opportunities. A couple that will call out specifically from the awareness to action framework is that um this ability to to feel the striving to feel detached really is an incredible asset. Um it allows you to slow down, it allows you to be rational and logical and analytical and not to allow emotions to run off with you and and make a decision that way. Um, so there really it really is such an asset that that desire to feel capable, competent. Self-sufficient until it becomes justification for the five to stay inside their own head, um, to keep thinking, thinking, thinking. And this is where the one and the five will have some overlap because there is this idea of I want to get it perfect, I want to get it right, I want to research more before it's ready, I want to look into it more, I want to think about it more. Um, and so the growth opportunity for which which never happens, right? We it never becomes perfect. Uh, we could always use more time thinking about it. Uh, and so the growth opportunity for our fives will just be understanding, okay, what is my threshold? Like, when do I know that I've enough research is enough research? Um, how what what are situations? Who are people that feel safe where I can practice bringing half thought about ideas to the table instead of waiting until it is 1000% uh researched and I feel like it is perfect and I am 100% certain about it. Um the seven is not gonna judge you for that, for that rough draft. Uh, they're going to they're probably gonna love it. They're probably gonna run with it, they're gonna go with it. Um, and that excitement about that half-baked idea might be exactly what you need to continue bringing this idea or this work to life. And then the sevens growth opportunity is that that striving to feel excited and satisfied, such a strength because it can be genuinely contagious, right? People are around you, they end up getting really excited until it's not, until it's overused, until uh that same energy starts to burn through ideas and people faster than you can keep up with. So just remember that depth is not a bad thing. Depth is not an excitement killer. Um it can be exciting to go deep, might be a reframe of a story that a seven needs to tell themselves. Um, it what it's kind of what makes the exciting things mean something when you can go go deep. So a practice for the type seven is to to see what might happen when you stay with one thing long enough to really know it, to really understand it, to feel like, hey, I'm I'm an expert um at this, rather than always feeling like you need that that novelty and wide net. Um, and the five sitting across from you um has probably done the work. They're gonna appreciate that you too have done the work. They're gonna respect you more, they're gonna um maybe like you more, they're going to enjoy working with you more when it feels like, okay, I've done my homework, and I I I get a sense that you have also done your homework. So together uh this pairing really does have something unique and that we have kind of the full spectrum from depth to a big vision. We kind of have that zoomed-in focus depth, and then the zoomed out big vision of what is possible, what the potential is out there. And that can be such a powerful duo duo. Um, but only when the type five is willing to come out of their head a little bit, you know, meet meet the seven with some energy, with um, with some openness, with those sharing half-baked ideas. And when the seven is willing to stay with a topic a little bit longer, stay in the room a little bit longer to really understand the five, to understand the topic, there's gonna be that mutual respect. Um, and this can be such an incredibly powerful pairing um for the team, for the department, for the organization, um, when both of these are aware of their own perspective and the person sitting across from them. So um as always, if you happen to be a type five or a type seven and have an interesting example to share, something that you would add, something that maybe I got wrong, um, a real world example that could be, it could be serious or real, or it could be real and funny of how you've seen this play out before. I did an episode, gosh, I think it was almost a year and a half ago now, when we did our rebrand here at Enneagram MBA. And it was interesting because as a type seven, uh, the the team that I worked with uh was a five and a one. So we really balanced each other out nicely. And there's a podcast interview that we did with the three of us, and I shared a story about there were some things I didn't love uh with the initial designs, or I just but I hated to say something, you know. I I hated to say, like, oh, I don't, I don't love this. Here's what I don't like about this, here's what I would like to see different. I just that was that was hard to say. And I was kind of doing this indirect sandwich method that we talk about sometimes with the twos, the nines, the sevens can do it at times as well. And finally we kind of got to a place where I was like, don't love this, would rather see this. And the five on the other end was like, Cool, I'll change it. You know, he wasn't taking it personal. And when I realized his reaction was that it felt incredibly safe. And um I felt actually encouraged that he wanted to know my real thoughts. Um, he did not get emotionally, you know, one one way or the other. It was just kind of, it is what it is. You're not hurting my feelings. This is what I'm presenting to you. Um, let let me know what you think. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna put a story behind it uh and take it personal. And so that that ended up being such a great working relationship. And when you're dialed in, when you start to understand each other, when you get more comfortable with each other, um, those things can um, those perspectives can really shift and make work more productive and ideally um more fun and and and happier. So said the said the type seven. So with that, please share um over at EnneagramNBA.com forward slash contact. And then these are the types of conversations, insights that we are doing through our Enneagram training, our Enneagram um activities, our discussions. And I'm gonna invite you to check out our workshop and programming options over at EnneagramNBA.com. And I look forward to seeing you in the next one. Thanks for being here.