SPEAKER_00 0:07

All right. Well, welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram at Work podcast. And today we get to have a special guest walk us through, or not walk us through, but have this conversation with us about our coworker chemistry dynamics between the Enneagram type three and the Enneagram type nine. And to help us have this conversation, I am joined by one of our visiting facilitators, Dina Smith, who is also in her own right a very successful career coaching therapy practice, one of the leading facilities in the health space, a clinical director in her home state of Florida or current place where she lives in Florida. So Dina, welcome. Thank you, Sarah. I'm really excited to be here and talk about this. Well, I asked Dina specifically to do this episode because Dina most identifies as an Enneagram type three. We're going to talk about what that means in just a moment, just for a quick refresher. And then she has a very uh special person in her life who is a type nine, in addition to some of her team members. So I thought, who better to talk about this dynamic than than Dina?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

So we'll see. We'll see you.

unknown 1:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

See what comes up. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

It's a little close to home. So tell us. Um, I I was I was telling you before we hit record, you know, people hear me talk about the types all the time. We um typically use the awareness to action frameworks, which says the type three is striving to feel outstanding, focused on success, achieving. Um, how do you describe the three, though, in your own workshops and uh with your own team?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I describe the three. I mean, similar, but I talk a lot about kind of the the core desire to always look successful, but I always also talk about how being a little bit on like that vein of deceit for a type three, like how that shows up in the layers of wanting to be successful. Um, so I always try to talk about both of those things because threes usually can relate to that if they have any level of self-awareness.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Okay. Okay. And that is that is helpful. Um and well, we're we're we'll talk a little bit more about that. And then we are also uh we have our type nine today, which again, according to the awareness action, they say it's striving to feel at peace and peaceful. And this includes having a feeling of internal peace as well as my outside environment being peaceful. But curious, like, how do you how do you usually introduce the type nine?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

I try to introduce the type nine as like this pillar of stability in terms of calmness. And I always I always remember to say, like, I know stability sometimes seems like a really boring superpower, but I feel like nines, that is such an important thing they bring to a relationship, to a team, to a room, is just that like stability, calmness, um, really, really being okay with like taking a little bit of a step back to look at things. Whereas a three, I'm more like in there. Like it's harder for me to take a step back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Because you're taking a step forward. You usually totally. Oh, yeah. Um, one of the things too, that similar to that, when we talk about the strengths of a nine is their that level-headedness. And so that will probably come into play here in this conversation as well. But I'm just curious. Um, I know that we've had you on the show. This is, I can't remember if it's your second or your third time back. Um, but for those people who haven't yet heard you, um, what about the type three do you really resonate with you? Or what was the thing that made you think, okay, yeah, this has to be my type?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah. So I actually initially thought I was a type one when I first learned the Nneagram because it felt very much like, okay, yeah, I could see myself really like looking at what's wrong that needs to be better. Um, I could see myself really wanting to not necessarily like perfect things, but in terms of like being goal-oriented and and along that line, I related to that until um until looking at the type three and learning more about the type three, the two things for me, because I know threes and ones will mistype a lot, is what I've learned and what I've experienced with clients. Um, first of all, when the the the underlying kind of emotional struggle struggle for each of those is very different, right? So for ones, there's like the anger um kind of under the surface. And for threes, it's shame. So once I understood that, I was like, oh yeah, like I have the shame thing much more than the anger thing. Um, so that was one thing that really, really helped me. Um, and then the identity, the identity, like searching identity, trying to connect with identity in that more like feeling center, heart-centered space, I really connected with that as well. Um, and then I think the last thing that really sealed the deal for me is when I had the understanding that even though type threes are very heart-centered and like dominant in feelings, threes are actually like disconnected from feelings because even as a therapist, I know this like and I understand this from clients, like feelings are not efficient for me. So it's like I'm not going to lead with those. I'm gonna lead with like what do I need to do next? Um, but I'm still heart dominant. So once I understood that piece and that layer of the Ennegram, I was like, oh, this explains literally my whole career path, like my own life was then like, you know, it was like one of those things that we talk about, like, get out of my head. Like that is really what I understand and how I have like experienced myself.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So okay. And I'm so glad you brought up the the one and three similarities because that is one of the most common like struggles. Am I this or that? So hopefully some of those nuances might help anybody listening to this also struggling. Am I a three or a one? Um, occasionally I will, and I'm curious if you run into this, I um will have people uh struggle between a three and a nine. And um what I have seen, and again, this kind of goes back to the model we use, but I want to hear your take on it is um with awareness to action, they have the three instinctual biases. And typically that um, am I this or that, am I a three or a nine, happens for like a transmitting or what conventional um Enneagram might call like the one-on-one or the sexual nine? Um because they're gonna be a little bit more out there, like um a little bit more image conscious with the transmitting energy, a little bit more ambitious. And so it can it can feel like wait a minute, am I a three or am I a nine? Um do you run into that ever? People struggle between those two.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

I have, I have run into that three and nine, and usually like yes, the the the in the subtypes or the instinctual drives helps with that. I think the other thing that I've seen um help is just going back to like, okay, if if you're a three, right? Like let's say like like you're a three, you're identifying as that three, like can you I'll like it's harder in a workshop, but I think like when you're working with someone over time, it's like if they can try it on for a little bit and really either like take notes or something along the lines of like when something stressful has come up, where do you like where do you lean? Um, and and looking at also same thing for the nine, like the the hard thing for a nine is which I've experienced with nines that struggle with typing themselves in general, is like nines are in the gut triad, which totally fits a nine, but it's like you're not the nines that that I might reference today, it's like you're not on the move as much as like an eight or a one, right? Like you're not now, yes, the the one-to-one sexual nines, yes, there's more of that like energy. Um, but unless, until they can identify that, I really I've seen a lot of nines struggle. And honestly, if I've worked with someone and they're like, I feel like all the types, I'm like, you're probably a nine.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah, yeah. I guess like you're a nine. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah. So yeah, yeah, for sure. And I when I have a three and nine that are like struggling, it's helpful that I'm a three because I can usually really speak to like this would be a lot of your experience as a three. So, like, are you seeing that or are you seeing something else?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, that's helpful. I wanted just to touch on that because you were here. And you know, like I said, it doesn't happen often, but it does come up. And so I just wanted to hear your take on it. So this episode is um not it not a typing session, um, but a coworker kind of compatibility. And the if if you're new to this series, welcome. The whole intent behind this series is um to talk about really no type is types are more compatible than others necessarily. It's really understanding yourself and the other person. And so that's the intention behind these. Um, and so we're we're gonna we're gonna get into a little bit of the strengths of these two pairings working together. So what what do you see either in the real world or what you're learning about the Enneagram as these, like what would be how would these two complement each other? Like if they were put on a project together, what would be a great that they could work really well together?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

So I think like you're saying, I 100% agree. If the if two types are unhealthy or really toxic, like it doesn't matter, you know, what they're if they're in that space, it doesn't matter how compatible they could be, if they are unhealthy or toxic, like then it's not gonna work out. They're not gonna be able to work on things together. Um I think this so the strengths in my experience between nine and three, I think there's almost like an understood um an understood positioning sometimes. Like I feel like the like a type three is good at putting themselves in a position. And it my experience with nines is they're good at like they're in a position, but it's not gonna be one that like pushes. So in my experience, nines and threes, like together, it's like there can be cohesiveness, even though they're very different. Like there can be cohesiveness in that and a mutual respect if they're both healthy. And so I know for me, like I have to really be mindful when I'm working with nines to slow down a little bit. Um, because it matters to me my relationship with this person I'm working with, right? So it's like if I want to have this connection with this person, then I need to value that they value if I would slow down a little bit and take some more time to just kind of like be in the energy. And if that's a conscious effort for me to do as a type three to slow down. Um, I think the other like something that maybe makes these two types work well together is also, again, if they're both like healthy or they're both, you know, not in that low level of health. Um once they are focused on the same thing, they're really quite effective. Um, I think that nines can sometimes get a bad rep for this, but in my experience working with nines, if they are focused on the same thing, we can really like conquer something like a project or like a conflict together. So I think those are like a couple of the benefits that I've experienced.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Okay. Okay. Um, and I I liked what you said about kind of the um the positioning because I think what I see, and feel free to say something different or add to this, is um the the nines don't always, they can be wonderful leaders, but they're also okay to kind of go with the flow. And a lot of times that three um has more like their leadership style is known as the pace setter for awareness to action. And so they kind of have this ability to set the pace, to kind of set the direction. And oh and a nine, I think a lot of times is is happy to go along with it for the most part. Um, and so there's not like a um, what's the word? Like a fight, not a fight, but a you get what I guess fight for like power or leadership position. It's like, okay, this is my role. This is a power struggle. I think your struggle, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I was like, fight's not the word. It's okay. Yes, a power struggle. Power struggle. Yeah. And and so that's where they fit together, like different, but fit together well, like a puzzle piece.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yes. And I think for so, yeah, it's a good point you bring up. I agree. There's like the there isn't too much of a power struggle, but there's also even though threes are so like driven and forward moving, I know for myself, um, when I have a nine, like if I'm reporting to a tight nine, um I'm still driving, I'm still striving for excellence and those things. But it's also really important to me that things appear successful. Um, and so if that means for me, because I would I would like to think I have some level of awareness after doing my own work on the any with the Ennegram, it if it sometimes is more, oftentimes is like when I look back on things, it's like, well, I kind of I didn't get into the power struggle or like I was able to pause because it's just important to me that our relationship is successful and whatever our bigger, you know, similar page is is successful. And so I think that benefits nines sometimes in working with threes, um, because it's like I I want it to be successful. And if that means that sometimes I have to pause, I can do that. If that means sometimes I have to tolerate um space or tolerate um indecisiveness or tolerate whatever, like I I will find my way in that. Um, and if I can't find my way, just to be candid, I'll just fake it until it's there.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

So it's like it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That I thank you for adding that because that is uh that's such a good, such a good point. And and I mean, absolutely. Um I could see threes like nodding their heads too. It's like, yeah, it because again, that goes back to that core motive. Um, maybe, maybe unlike a one, maybe this is like another clue. Um, not that ones want to get into a power struggle or appear unsuccessful, but I, you know, I could see them maybe a little bit more focused on, well, we got to do it the right way, versus you're saying, you know, fine, this isn't like my favorite way or the maybe the best way, but for the sake of appearances, like united front.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

I'll go along with this. Exactly. Yes, exactly. Okay. And you know, the other, the other thing with three and ones, which I know is not what we're talking about, but this keeps coming up. I I can get very um, I don't know if other threes feel like this. I I get really irritated with sometimes, honestly, Sarah. Like I can't, I I get irrit, like I can get irritated or intolerant around the like inability to pivot, you know, because I think for threes, it's like, you know, you gotta pivot sometimes, right? And I think for some of the types, ones included, that's really hard sometimes in terms of like levels of discomfort and control and that sort of thing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

And I I could see that potentially like adding to our strength list of the compatibility um for the good between the three and the nine, because I think they're both pretty adaptable. Like, you know, some of the strengths that I'll read or we'll talk about both of them, like they're pretty like able to move.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yes, yes, yeah. I just think I think the motivation is different for why they're adaptable.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah. Okay. Let me ask you this. Um, speaking of strengths, um before we before we move on, uh I I could see each other kind of inspiring different qualities. And I know that you had mentioned, like, as a three, you know, like when there's a an you're working with a nine, you might slow down. Maybe other people kind of need that that slowdown pace. So the nine is there to be like that. Well, I forget what word you said, like steady, level-headed, stability. Yes, stability. Um, and not that a three can't be that. It's just it's not maybe as as much. What um what qualities do you see that a nine could pull from the three to enhance the relationship or to enhance their own career growth?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, that's a great question. Um I would say I would say that if the nine I would say if if the nine could be encouraged by like a like how things for a three are visible. So like I think accomplishments for a three are usually visible, where for nines, naturally, like it could be an accomplishment, but it's not like a maybe it's not visible, maybe not everybody knows about it because that's not what motivates them. But I think in the same sense, it's good for nines to pull from some of that because nines are struggling inherently with like understanding like their presence and that they matter to people, right? And so I think if they can be encouraged by a type three, like really having more uh visible contributions, visible successes, visible, um, yeah, I I think that that that that is a strength that a nine could maybe pull from. Um, and then I just think like the movement forward piece, um, and the like the follow-through. So um I I never I never heard nines to before I knew the Enneagram, people like other therapists that I work with and stuff knew the Enneagram before me and described nines. One one therapist in particular, she was like, you know, nines, they're kind of like they're really invested in something, and then all of a sudden they're like aloof, like it doesn't even matter anymore.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Like they've lost kind of the steam for it. And threes do not lose steam just till the game is over. So that's another like okay strength and I can both from a three.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Does that make sense? Keep it going. It it does. I think the energy level. Is a difference. Or oh, I don't know if the energy level is the word, but kind of how you approach a project or just the forward, the pace of the pace, maybe. Because what I've also noticed, some of the it's not maybe just a three, but it's um, you know, some of the other like more assertive types where uh it's like you talk, you I mean, you tend to talk fast, you are moving fast, and you know, it it could be hard for a nine to get a a word in. Um, and so, or they might feel like, oh, they're interrupting me. I was actually just taking a breath or a pause in my thoughts, which isn't bad, like collect your thoughts. Um, but you know, it I I could just see that kind of um kind of be being a point of friction when it when I guess we're maybe moving moving into that section um around the different paces that you can pull from each other, but then it could also potentially be a point of frustration.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Yes. Um, I've seen it, I've seen the frustration both ways. I've experienced the frustration both ways. Um as a three leader, like I have to be mindful of people that are on my team that are type nines. Um, and I've had a I've had a few over the years um that not even the energy piece, I my person it's my perception of how much they care about something or how much they're gonna take on something that I think they should take on. Um like feeling this is so funny. I was talking about this the other day. It was like um a type nine relationship. And it's like, I need to know more that you're gonna get it done. Like as a three leader, it needs to be a little bit more, it's not obvious enough to me that I can rely on you to take care of this thing for whatever the project, the customer, whatever. Um, and that is my perception, it doesn't mean it's true, right? Like it doesn't mean that's that person's reality. That is just my perception. Um, and then I feel like for me, um, having been in relationships where a nine is over me, um I can get very frustrated with not being given specific directions. Like there's so much beauty in for nines, like there's so much beauty in feeling like I have, like I'm heard, like I have space, um, like I matter in the space, my opinion matters, like there's so much beauty in that. And then on the other side of it, I still desire a clear path forward or like a priority of like what do I do next? Like, um, and I can put it put it to you this way. This has been something that's been on my mind too. And I was trying to like find language for it. And really for me as a three, if I'm working for a nine, um, sometimes it's hard to anticipate what the nine needs. And I think this is at work, and I think this is personally, like being able to anticipate what do you need? Because you're not gonna necessarily say, hey, I need this, right? You're not you may not be clear about it. You may like to like tiptoe around it, and but then I I am it's not landing on me that that was actually really important to you because you weren't super direct. So does that make sense? Is that have you seen that? Like, Danis, it's like the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yes, yeah. I I and I I again I think people in this dynamic will like that will resonate on on one side or the other. So it's this is a little bit of a leading question, I guess, but along this, along the same line, these same lines, and then something that you had said earlier about um as a leader to as a type three leader leading a nine, trusting that they'll get it done. What what are some things that they could do to help instill more trust?

SPEAKER_01 27:06

I would say, okay, for me, and this sounds really like really that's it. Um, I would say eye contact. I feel like sometimes nines avoid eye contact with me. Um, and I I don't know if that's a and people these are people that like I can remember a nine that I I don't work with anymore, but it was like it's okay to look in my eyes. Like I'm not gonna like sh, you know, something bad. But I think some of that is like insecurity and not wanting to, I don't know, I'm not sure. Like I mean, people have so many things going on in their mind. But I think for me, if I can make eye contact with a nine, then I feel more insecurity about like, okay, they got it. And then following up with me about like not like not like you're not like I don't, I do not like micromanaging people, but you coming to me and just saying, hey, this is where I'm at with this, versus I again have to anticipate, I haven't heard anything. And if it right, if it were me, I'd be like, hey, I'm on this step and I'm gonna do this next and that kind of thing. So I think that communication back would be like very relieving for a three, even if the communication is I haven't gotten to that or I'm stuck, I then would feel like I had some landscape of like what is going on.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Okay, okay. I and I and I love that, and that might not feel natural for a nine necessarily, but it could be really helpful. And and again, I think just I'm just as a human being, like overcommunicating is usually like the better option anyway. But um I I have heard similar sentiments from threes, um, and not just about nines, you know, you know, just saying that they they appreciate that. Just again, they they don't want to tell you what to do, but they just kind of want to know like where are we moving forward? And then if not, right problem solve because otherwise it's exactly exactly right, and then it's gonna fail.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

And I had no way of like figuring it out beforehand that I could have prevented that.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

So okay, now I and I don't want I don't want nines to think we're we're beating up on them. So let me let me let me swip the script swap the script a little bit. Um what are some of the strengths specifically that you see in a nine as a leader? Because I think that a lot of the qualities of a three, um, and I know that you know this, that listeners uh as a three, eights, like ones, even like there's just some natural tendencies that we just like as a culture really um value in leadership skills. In leadership. And for nine specifically, they also have they can be incredibly influential. Um, it's a I think it's a quieter influence, but they can be powerful in their own right, but we don't always, you know, highlight those or or talk about them. Um, but but they have some very important leadership skills. What do you see as some of the strengths that a nine has specifically in the in the leader role?

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah, I love talking about this too because you're you're absolutely right. And this is like inherently like for nines, it's like we do need to talk about this because healthy nines have a natural ability to lead. Um, I think in my experience, the traits of a nine, when I mention that stability, I mean like my experience with nines is we could be around a table and there be something going on. And if if a type nine walks in the room, it is almost like everybody automatically is like at ease. And I know that's my experience because I'm like, okay, this person is here now. Um, and they are just naturally going to be able to like regulate all of this in a sense with that stability, that calmness. Um, I think another strength for a nine that I've noticed, um, and that I really appreciate um in leadership is that there is a predictability sometimes for nines, which I think some people are like, well, that's not a strength. It really is if you are on a team and your leader is a nine, is that that peacemaker energy, there's predictability in how they're gonna respond to something, um for good or for for better or for worse. Like even if it's not something you agree with, it becomes a little bit like, okay, I know that they're gonna do this. Um, I think the other strength I see for nines is just the ability to like not get into drama or like gossip, right? So I think like same with sixes. I think nines are good in a crisis, in the sense of like they're they're not gonna get into all of sometimes like the outside noise that can happen in a crisis at work, right? Whether it's a customer issue, financial issue, um, like they're gonna make you believe it's okay either way, which is very comforting. I think, especially for someone like me, that I'm like always looking at like, okay, what is the next thing that I have to like fix here? There, like I get a lot of the I lack optimism sometimes. And I think a nine leader can bring that, right? Like, it's not all doom and gloom. Um, like maybe that really terrible thing is not going to happen. And I don't think it's in a way of like denial. I think just nines that are leaders that have a lot of experience and also they can just right-size something very quickly in terms of like this is not that big a deal. So I really appreciate that about nines. Um, and I can remember specifically, um, I don't, is it okay that I talk about my relational nine that I have? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

I didn't want to bring it up because it's not mine, but it's yes, I think that would be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

So I can remember a time where um my husband, who's a nine, um, and if you ask my husband what type he is on the Enneagram, he will tell you he's a 10 because he doesn't know the Enneagram, he's not interested. It's like he doesn't, it's not, it's fine, right? It's fine. That's season nine. It's fine.

unknown 34:24

It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

So I can remember my daughter is almost nine. Um, she's going into third grade. When she was going into kindergarten the summer before she went into kindergarten, she was just so um the behavioral stuff like came out of nowhere. And I was like, wow, I really feel like this is not like her. And my response was, you know, layer under layer of feeling like I'm failing her as a mom. And I have failed to like discipline her properly. And, you know, let's name all the ways that I have failed. You failed, yeah. Where my husband very much, I mean, because I I think this was probably in the midst of me breaking down one night, like, I don't know what I'm not doing for this little girl, and she's just being like disrespectful, and she's like, Who is this person? And my husband goes, Dina, do you think she's a little anxious about going to elementary school? And I was like, What? What? He's like, you know, she's like going to like big kids' school, and we've been like amping it up. And do you think maybe she's a little worried about that? Look at this man bringing up feelings, first of all, right? And I'm like a therapist. I'm like, why didn't I think of that?

SPEAKER_02 35:56

That my kid is like emotionally struggled. No, no, why didn't I think of that?

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Because I'm a type three is part of it, but also just like being able to put things kind of like organize things where they go for me, so that the energy that I was putting into where have I failed? What did I do that I should be doing better? Right, putting like kind of turning that around onto like, how can now I'm looking at her as a little girl who is worried or anxious? How can I support her? So he just in this very because he can just see those sides that I don't see of things sometimes. And I think it's because of that ability to naturally kind of pause and like take a step back. And so kudos to my husband, who I talk about a lot in in my Enneagram world of like how our dynamic is. But that was a moment where I was like, wow, I cannot believe I missed that.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

And I have to now like reflect on how I missed that and help my daughter who was fine.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Maybe it's not about me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Maybe it is not about me, like totally. So that when I think of like strengths of a nine who can lead, right? Um, because I think even in our personal relationships, like we people lead. Um, that was a moment where I was like, oh, okay, thank them for this person.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Yes, yes. Oh, that's so good. Um, so so many good things there. The uh the other thing that I have heard people appreciate about the type nines is their ability to um have their ability and I think their genuine desire to hear people's voices. And and I think um, again, correct me if I'm wrong, because you're the living example of this as a as a three, but sometimes I see or I'll hear about the the efficiency of a three is kind of like let's make a decision, and it's not bad, it's just you know, depending on the situation, but it's like let's make a decision and let's move forward. And we just cannot bring everybody into the room and ask everybody their thoughts and feelings about this, like we're moving forward. And of course you cannot, um, but occasionally maybe you you can or you should. And I think a nines, from what I see, have a tendency to that's their first kind of decision-making strategy, and people feel really valued and feel really heard, and I think that's where that how their ability to be influential comes into play because um, according to the awareness action framework, they're called the consensus builder. It's because they're able to to build that consensus and people want to follow people who make them feel seen and heard. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah, for sure. I yeah, I agree with that. Um, I think the yes, the forward like movement for a three can sometimes dismiss another, um can dismiss the relational aspect of people feeling like they count, their opinion matters. Um and so my experience of nines as leaders is that like um let's bring everybody together, right? Like let's do that for andor, which for me has been a growth area. Let's sleep on that and talk about it tomorrow with everyone.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Like a whole day? Like a whole day later.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

I hadn't thought about that. Right. And what do I like do with my hands between yeah, yeah, but it's so um, I think that's the that's part of the influence is like we don't need it's it's kind of like what I was sharing about like being in a crisis, like we don't need there that or there's no there's not a lot of urgency naturally in my experience with nines. Um, and I think that a lot of situations call for a lack of urgency so that we can be level-headed and come together and yeah, help everybody feel like they not necessarily, I think good leaders still make it make people or like influence people in a way that it's like it doesn't mean we're all decision makers in this room. However, right, it still matters kind of the the vibe of what everyone's experiencing in. And I think that nines as leaders, when they're really healthy, can they have less blind spots almost of what they could gain from hearing other people's perspectives. I don't know if I said that right, but like me as a three, I forget almost, like it's a blind spot for me that someone else's perspective could could put me in a different direction. And if I don't make the time to hear that, then I've missed out on a the relationship and B, maybe how I'm making that choice. So I think nines are influential in that too. Um, that that they don't have that's not a natural blind spot. That's like a natural, like come, you know, come to me with this.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Yeah. And I think it comes from a place of, well, if everybody feels hurt, then we can all be at peace and nobody's gonna be disgruntled, which is, you know, it's hard to avoid, but that I think that's some of the the thinking behind it. Um, I want to talk about um, and as I will say this disclaimer with all of the this is by no means like an all-inclusive, like all the strengths, all the um dynamics of of these. These are just some some key highlights, maybe that you can reflect on depending on who you are in this relationship. But I I want to talk about kind of the movement between these two because this is also um a question, like the line between the three and the nine. Um and one of the ways that uh we'll talk about it is um like there's actually going back to the growth, um, things that you can kind of take or borrow from another type is with the nine, they have a tendency out of all the types to kind of neglect that striving to feel outstanding. That is known as like their growth arrow, but it's also known as their neglected strategy according to awareness to action. And that makes sense because they will self-deprecate a lot. They don't want to be in the spotlight. Um, I hear from a lot of nines, I want to be appreciated and I want to be acknowledged, but like don't put me on stage, don't call out my name. Like, there's some, there's not all the time, but there's a lot of um, oh gosh, I'm I'm losing my words today, Dina. But there's like a lot of resistance to having the attention on you. And I think that also comes with like not maybe wanting to speak first in a meeting or you know, make the the call or make the decision because now the attention's on you. Um, and so that is something that they might resist or neglect, but it's also known as the growth arrow because there's so much growth that can happen as a

SPEAKER_01 44:00

individual contributor as a as a leader um when you're willing to toot your own horn or toot your team's horn um and let people know any any like examples or additional thoughts on on that relationship with the the three the line to the three the line to the three yeah i yes i can see i would say similar to like what you're saying it's for the nine i i think it's um and i do think the um subtype slash instinctual drive can influence the like resistance level of that um but i i do see it as like if the nine can grow in their three traits like the what a what a great balance of like yes it's still important to me that everybody feels acknowledged or everybody feels valued um and I can still honor my own influence on others in a way that portrays me as outstanding successful excellent whatever you know word you want to put in there um and I think I think that so I have seen a lot the combination at work of nines in the workplace connecting with more assertive types um maybe eights maybe threes um and I think some of that some of that for nines also gives them like some level of confidence or some level of like security around okay I can step into these shoes too and put myself more out there or be more directive um and it still be okay. And I think some of that is naturally what a what a nine could get on that path to three. I've also seen though nines if if they're looking at the growth path of three um I think there's some stress in that sometimes for them like the resistance you're talking about I think it's I think it can be stressful and it requires kind of a leap to just practice it. And I think it depends upon like you know who that person, who that type nine has around them in the workplace, who they spend a lot of their time with, who they're on projects with um because I I do I I think it's a I think it's a leap for a lot of nines to feel like that's okay and that that's going to be accepted by other people around you like because when we and my perception of accessing these paths, these arrows, it's like yeah someone might experience you a little bit different, but you're still who you are. So it's not like all of a sudden you threw caution to the wind and as a nine you don't care what anybody thinks. Like you're like whatever. Yeah that's not what it looks like but I don't know if they have a lot of confidence around that until it's practiced and there's like there's like in there yeah I just I I just have a lot of like my nine experiences they're so in their gut of like how they respond based on what their gut feels like. So it's like I think that's important that they feel okay in that three arrow and they're getting the vibe that like okay I'm still acceptable in terms of being leader people still feel okay around me that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Yeah yes well and and too you know threes very much care what others I mean I think we all do as humans a little bit but threes also care about you know they're percept how they're perceived. So to your point it is not at all like throw throw the to the wind.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

No no no would you talk a little bit about kind of the the reverse the line for the three to the nine yeah so the three line to nine is the is this I don't know what what language but stress disintegration path um and the way that I see this at work or in relationships is just the type threes like someone would I guess know that that I've been able to do that or like that part is more to the surface. If a lot of it around my pace if I'm slowed down and it is I mean as as that being a path for me that I will naturally access in stress in stress it looks like it looks a little bit like I've not thrown caution to the wind but I'm more detached which normally like I'm very in it. And so yeah it's pretty obvious like there's for me stress I think is pretty obvious to people and I experience it um and the the growth for me with my nine part has been being okay being in my body more and being tapping more into like what does my gut say about that? What is the vibe I'm getting like being more aware in that sense where normally I'm just like you know just going. So um I think the pause in that and then being able to balance as a three like the whole notion of rest for a type of three right which nines are also so good at without judgment where if I'm resting there's still a level of judgment in that um for me um and you know it it it is so when I can when I can be okay with that nine part being more in my relationships to the surface for me.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

If it's at the end of like the higher healthier traits of nine that rest thing is so great because it's like it it allows threes to really reframe productivity and that quite frankly as a type three like being able to have quality rest whatever that looks like right it could be like literally sleeping it could be not looking at my phone after a certain hour you know it could be not booking my day full um that rest will essentially you like make me more um tenacious make me more adaptive make me um make make me get more done without as much of an effort like it doesn't take much for my experience as a type three is like it I don't need a whole lot of rest like but when I can get myself there it it pays off in dividends like it's wonderful and I think if it's wonderful for me then and as a leader it's wonderful for the people and my team yes yes that that's such a good one and um sometimes for for these episodes I'll refer I don't know if you've heard of this Dina or if our listeners have heard the art of typing by ginger lapid um Bogda and it goes through and matches up it's kind of like am I this or that and I've used it just to kind of look at the some of the differences and compatibility compatibility and one of the three like main differences was the concept of relaxation and rest and the relationship that they each have. So that that is real and threes will probably be like yeah that's that tracks sounds about right sounds about right um as we as we start to kind of wrap up um I'm curious if you and I'm putting you on the spot a little bit so if you don't that's okay but I'm curious if you have one kind of practical tip for each of the types um to better understand each other or better work with one another. And I I know we've already kind of covered one with the type nine just kind of staying in communication with the three. So we could that can be our practical tip or we can add one. But is there any advice that like a it could be a small thing, a a big thing that you would offer to the type three teammate or leader to better to work better with their type nine teammate?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yeah I would say um I would say really being grounded um and I I do a lot of grounding work with sixes but I do also think that grounding for a three like to me is more about grounding in the reality of um weighing out efficiency productivity versus the relationship so getting grounded in because again I think even though we're like heart dominant and maybe feelings like feelings focused for threes I I think there's often this like thing of um I'm gonna use somebody else's language that I was talking to the other night things over people as a type three and it's like so as a type three grounding in like the relational aspect versus the success of the thing the success of the project the success of the customer's experience the success of XYZ like I think as a leader it's really important to be able to acknowledge that leaders aren't going to get anything done if they don't have a team. And so being able to place value on the relational aspect of the relationship with someone on your team for a three is not automatic. So I think grounding yourself as a three in that um and then I think also as a three just just like and when I say grounding it's it's the same way of like find something that will make you pause. So I don't know what that is for people, right? For me, it's like I have to have time on my calendar to just like read something journal at my desk like I have to have that I have to check out for a moment to be able to keep things in perspective which I think is another strength of a nine like that checkout thing is a strength for nines right so it's like I when I can do that as a three everybody benefits because I've stopped the hamster long enough to be able to like put in perspective okay don't bulldoze over this teammate or this direct rapport like look at relationally where are they coming from and like you were talking about when I was talking about my daughter like maybe it's not me like maybe I need to look at them what's going on with them and how I can support so I don't know if that's like practical enough.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

No that's that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Just I think those are like good reminders good just kind of like pause and reflect um anything that you would add to the practical tip that we talked about for a nine um working with their three leader or teammate that they can do to better communication just the relationship in general yes I would say the communication thing I would also say like be mindful for nines of their own maybe anger or stress coming to the surface um I know in in nines in my personal life in my work relationships the influence is more than just like everybody feels heard the influence is also like if a nine nines are not really ever dysregulated. So if they are for me I'm like oh my gosh high alert like something is really wrong now because this nine is having like a sense of urgency around it. So it's like I think if that's accurate great like if the building is on fire like get going right but I think like for nines in that like sure like if they're if something is going on people are looking at nines to see kind of the energy of the space the energy of that room the energy in the relationship. So I think for nines like it's yeah it's difficult because the vibe that a nine puts off and does have that same influence on others as all of you know the strengths that we shared. So just being mindful of like their own anger and where that goes and um how that influences other people and how they're witnessing that um especially in a leadership position. And I know like working with nines um and nines I've had as leaders, it's like yeah I very much will gauge um the um severity of something if that nine leader is having a like big reaction I'm like oh my gosh we have I don't know crashed in the ocean. Like so I think just being mindful of that for nines too like you have an influence so like you gotta regulate some of that great great great great point.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

I've really enjoyed this I always it's nice to hear I mean there are hundreds thousands of other Enneagram teachers facilitators out there and so it's always nice to get um just somebody else's take on on things and then one of the things that I just so appreciate about Dina that I I should have mentioned in the beginning I mean she is a clinical director as like her day job she uses the Enneagram in real world in the real world like on a daily basis with her own team in addition to being a licensed therapist and then a certified Enneagram coach. So just so much um wisdom and real world experience.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

So thank you for sharing that and speaking of threes and burnout um I know that you also in your own private Enneagram practice and maybe therapy correct me if I'm wrong um you work specifically with women who are trying to navigate burnout would you just say a little bit about that and where people can learn more about potentially getting supported by you yeah yeah so yes in my private practice I have um as a licensed therapist um I have a private practice where I am working with women who are high achieving usually women who are experiencing the struggle of balancing like work um integrating home life being you know a a spouse a parent um those kinds of challenges that a lot of women are facing um and um I really enjoy working with women that are in transitional spaces in their life so maybe um in career transitions right getting promoted looking for the next thing um what that dynamic is like within an organization um but also life transitions empty nesting um or having babies like all those transitions that women go through while still trying to like have a career and work um so I really enjoy working with women that want some help around that burnout the anxiety that comes with that sometimes emotional disconnection comes with that in their relationships um and um you can find me on my website so my website is enneagram therapy withdina.com um and there's a way to reach me on there the other place I am is on LinkedIn um Dina Smith L M H C. And yeah I'd love to answer questions if people have them they can they can shoot me a message um and if if women are looking for a space where they can also integrate their faith I'm I'm open for that as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

So I I'm so glad you shared all of that. I also know that there are a lot of corporations um potential listeners that have specific women's groups I I just was able to share the Enneagram with a women's group today and this would be such a wonderful kind of combination so um definitely reach out to Dina let her know what you're taking away from this episode on Instagram check out our website which will connect in the show and with that Dina thank you for being here I appreciate all that you shared and listeners thank you for being here and we'll see you in the next one. Bye