SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of the Enneagram and BA podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Lynn. And today we are getting into the topic around how to share a compelling story. Not just any story, but a compelling story that's going to help you promote your offer with Kat Brundle, who happens to be a storytelling expert as well as a podcast strategist that helps you both get a podcast started, launch it, and then grow it. So we got into all of that. And this was a really interesting one because she is pretty familiar with the Enneagram and has really dug into what it is for herself. And she is a Enneagram type three wing two. So that'll be interesting for all of us to listen to her personal individual experience of how that has shown up for her in her life and in her work. But I literally just recorded an episode um yesterday at the time of this recording, this intro on wings and the 18 different subtypes. So I just thought for some additional knowledge, Enneagram education on wings specifically, um, I am gonna recommend you listen to that episode. I think it's episode 13. And then for the purpose of this one, I thought I would just share with you the overview description of what that type 3 wing two is. And I will say um sometimes learning about the wings and seeing how they can uh play a role in the expression of your dominant type can be really helpful, as well as your arrows where you go to stress and where you go whenever you're growing. And I actually just heard from somebody over on Instagram that said um learning about the type three wing two description specifically, which is the one we're gonna talk about, really helped her confirm that she was a type three because she was also thinking that maybe she was a type seven. But when I read you this description, you'll understand maybe why she thought that and some of the confusion and overlap there. So it it can help you understand more about which type really is your dominant when you look more into the numbers surrounding your dominant type, like your wings, like your arrows. And so our type three wing two is called the charmer. It says they can be more emotional. You got that um feeling triad with both a three and a two, spontaneous, outgoing, friendly. So they may look like a seven versus the type three wing four, which is called the professional, they may be a little bit more serious, more task-oriented, and look like a type one, more so. Um, the type three wing two, they feel like their value comes from being able to dazzle others with their personality and their personal qualities, whereas the wing four feels like their value comes from the work that they do, the success that they have, more so than their personal qualities. So that's an interesting difference. And then this type uh three-wing two, they do want others to like and admire them, like that type three does. Um, they're very good at knowing how to turn it on and be that charming. And this type might be a little bit more competitive, more so than the other type. So, with reading that, that's not to say that our guest today it fits that mold perfectly, or that if this is your type three, wing two description, that you are gonna fit every word. That just gives you some additional clarity of the different wings for specifically for our type threes. And then I do go through all the wings, all the types in that episode 13. So check that out. And I do want to let you know that Kat put together an incredible resource around how to promote your podcast based on your Enneagram type. So at towards the end here, she shares how to download that, where to find it on her website. So stick around because we also get into um one or two of those ideas based on our Enneagram types. She picks one, I pick one. So that's kind of fun. And then the rest are in that guide. So definitely listen to the end to get directions, um, instructions for where and how to download that. That'll be super fun. And without further ado, enjoy this episode with Kat. Welcome to another episode of the Enneagram MBA podcast. This is a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and company leaders who are ready to get to know themselves, who are ready to get to know and really understand their clients and their teams, and who are ready to learn how to get known as they package and promote their expertise and services in a way that truly aligns with their personality, motives, and goals. So grab your notebook or open your notes app, and I will see you in class. All right. So today we have another type three. I love the type threes because they're so willing to raise their hand and jump in and like share. Um, and today is a different, we have Kat who um helps female entrepreneurs start podcasts. And she'll we'll get into that more. But um, Kat, I want to ask you right off the bat, how how has um knowing that you are a type three, what is what has that done for you and in your life and and just in your in your business too?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me. I'm happy to be back. And um I think it's introduced a lot of peace, I think would be the kind of the main takeaway because obviously type three is um, you know, the achiever, as the name says, very much going after goals and getting things done and kind of you know going after big stuff, um, which is really exciting, but it does tend to sometimes be a little bit too focused on outcomes and what's coming, and you know, um knowing that has helped to be mindful of, okay, also be present, also be here, um, and also not just go after things because you know it's cool to achieve that thing, but is it something I really want to do? Is it something that really does light me up personally? So it has kind of helped me slow down to kind of ask more questions about what I'm doing and um still go after big things because I don't think that's ever something I will stop doing or want to do, but at least doing them more mindfully, I think is the word.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, exactly. Just intent with intention. Um, okay, so I always like to just to find out like what someone's personal experience is with a type, because you know, there's all kinds of books, there's all kinds of theory about the Enneagram, but it's like really it's about somebody's individual experience, which can be very different. Um, there's lots of things that influence how our type, our dominant type is expressed. So I just I'm always curious too with our with the type threes. Um, you guys are kind of interesting because you're in the feeling center with with the twos and the fours, who fours have a lot of feelings and twos have a lot of feelings. Mainly they're they're interested in other people's feelings. Um, how do you deal with your own feelings? Like whether it's really happy or like hard feelings. Um, how does that play out? Because according to some of the Enneagram theory, threes sometimes can shove them down and move them out of the way, even though they have them, because they just don't feel like they're productive. Um, but I've heard both things. So I just love to hear like how how that shows up for you.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah, so my wing is a two, which makes sense because I'm much more of a one-on-one person. Um, so I think that's also for for feelings. My main gateway, I would say, is my personal relationships. So I think uh I used to be the person who would see like in TVs and movies, like huge friend groups, and everybody shares everything. And I was like, oh, that must, you know, you want to have that. Um, but actually through like also working with uh counseling at some point, they were like, is it though what you really want? Like, does that lay you up being in a huge group and having to exchange? I was like, no, I'm usually the one that's just like, let's go for a coffee date one-on-one or let's do dinner or wine or whatever. Um, and while I do have friend groups, I even I'm friends with a couple, I still spend time with them one-on-one, actually, even separately, not always in the couple, you know, configuration. Um, so I would say those are the settings where I'm most about expressing feelings is very much in personal, you know, conversations. And then I think based on my job, also a lot through um creating. So through art, through research, through learning, I think that's the other side where the feeling set of things come out more.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Okay, so I can see your type two wing for sure. And I can also see like sometimes your your wing four flares up because you'll have to um check out Kat's website and her Instagram feed. Like you definitely have the artistic. And as we're talking right now, she has like this beautiful mural painted behind her. So she has that that creativeness too. Um, that uh that that type four is probably adding into. Um, you know, failure is something else that type three specifically like really struggle with, which like don't we all? Um, but just because that there is that like achiever piece to the three, like that is like the core driver is to be seen as successful and to to achieve. Um how how do you now, and maybe it's it's you're in a more healthy place. And if so, like that's great. I want to hear about that too. Um, how do you handle quote unquote failure? Like what how do you how do you deal with it? If you did a launch or shared a post, it didn't go like you wanted to. Um, how do you handle it now with that maybe some additional self-awareness that you have?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Well, it's funny that you say failure because when I was thinking um when the podcast came out, I was thinking about my type. I was like, what type of stories do I see that this was like always there, right? Not like I build this identity later on. Um and I remembered the story that I shared, which was um when I was a kid, I was a teenager, I was on vacation with my mom at a beach resort, they had a kids' club, and they were like, Yeah, let's pit teenagers against each other and have competitions. This is a great idea. And um, one of the competitions was, I don't know if you've seen them, there's like these like rubber donuts which get pulled behind uh, you know, uh boats. And the idea is that the waves make you bump up and down, and the goals is that you get at some point cheated off. And um, it's always two people at the same time. So it's basically a competition who could, you know, stay on the longest. And I literally, when I was like, I think it was 13, 14, something like that, um, one of the bumps, um, because you're sitting basically with your knees by your chest, bumped me up and I hit my knee against my eye and gave myself a black eye, which was in itself alone very impressive. But the but the crazy bit is that even though I literally just massively hurt myself, I would like not let go. Um, and I did win that competition at the end, which was kind of why I didn't let go, but kind of looking at that in retrospect, it was like very symbolic of this whole thing of like wanting to win at all costs, even like literally my health. Um, so I kind of saw that, you know, when I was younger, it was much bigger to thing. I had these things where um, if I forgot my homework once, I would have like a breakdown and have my parents write me a note that I forgot my homework because it was like the end of the world. I had straight A's when I had one B, one quarter, it was horrible. So there was a lot of things, like a lot of angst when I was younger about not achieving. Um, and failure happened when I actually failed at something quite big because um basically I wanted to go to this University of Scotland. And the way the system there is is that basically before you even graduate, they say, like, hey, we'll accept you, but on the condition that you get these grades when you actually finish your last year. And um I was like excited, I was like, Yeah, I can do that. And then I missed it by like a single point. Um, and then I couldn't go. And this was like a huge thing for me. I was like, oh my God, I, you know, I really wanted to go there. This was like my whole plan was set on what I was gonna do. Um, and I basically uh did the cheaper thing that I did take a year off, and I was like, I'm gonna resit one exam and I'm gonna get that one point back, um, which I did. But the interesting thing that happened was that I also at the same time went to Fair Trade in their communications department and volunteered there and figured out that I loved media and I was set to study business at this university. And they didn't even offer, it was quite it's like kind of an oxbridge of the Scotland. So it didn't have any new things like media or journalism. So I couldn't actually study that there. So I even I didn't go back. Like I got that point, completely changed my mind, found something new, and decided that media and journalism was what I wanted to do. And that really has helped, and that has happened again and again. Launched, you know, field launches, field businesses, whatever it might have been, that it's actually kind of like set me on the right path. Like I've seen that those things have actually given me more opportunities or new perspectives and have actually in the end helped me. There's never been anything, luckily enough, that has really completely derailed me. So nowadays I still don't love failure. I think that's not something that's gonna go away immediately. Um, but I don't get as hung up on it or stuck in it as I did when I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah, well, and I think it's just like even like you were saying, reframing the term failure. It's just like, oh, I learned something, a better way to do something, or actually I want to do something else, and just like reframing that completely. Um, okay, so I I don't know if you know this about yourself. You might be aware of this, but I see it in you specifically. And then um, because by the way, I I should say um we met on Instagram, is that right? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Like a long time ago, it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Okay, I feel like I need to do like an episode on like all these people that I've made that I've made like genuine connections with on Instagram or social media, because it does happen. I know that we sometimes get burnt out on social media and it can feel like heavy sometimes, but there's also so much good that can come from it. So anyway, we I have been, I brought that up because I feel like I've been following along with you at least a year and a half, maybe longer. I don't know. Um, and so I see this in you specifically. And then as a type three, this is one of the tendencies or characteristics of a type three, is this um ability, this gift to inspire others. Um, threes are called the achiever, um, but they're also called the role model. And um I'm just curious if you see that in yourself. And you know, that is such a thing for all of us to kind of be aware of. And if it doesn't come natural, I think it it's important to maybe practice that and and step into that because I don't know that we think about ourselves as leaders when we're, you know, these solopreneurs. Maybe we don't have a team yet, maybe we have a VA, um, or you know, we don't have, you know, thousands of students, and but we are leaders to even just the people that we show up on on social media. So I do think that, you know, thinking of yourself as a leader and like casting a vision and that sort of thing can be really important as you build your personal brand, as you build your business. But what tips would you have for others maybe just getting started to start to kind of think about themselves as a leadership, like how to inspire other people?

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, so I used to, I think, be more uncomfortable with that position in quotation marks, um, because I didn't really see the why behind it or why people thought that or what I was doing with it in that sense. So I think the first tip is very much to know um what impact you're having with that or want to have and what kind of is driving force behind that, not just be like, hey, I want to be a leader because I want to be a leader, right? It's not, you know, I don't want to just be on a pedestal, whatever it might be. And for me, that really crystallized with the podcasting work I did and storytelling, because I really looked at, hey, what do I actually care about in this field? And it was very much um underrepresented voices, right? Unheard voices. And um both looking, for example, at gender, three-fourths of podcast hosts are still male. Um, we've got a huge, you know, underrepresentation of women, let alone any more diversity topics. You know, so it's uh, you know, giving people the belief that they can do it too by doing it myself, basically. Um, also being open about things in those settings. So I had this thing last year or the year before, I don't even know, it's been a while, um, where it was like I was never secretive about being queer. I've always been out, but it was never part of my business because I was like, it has nothing to do with my work. Like there's it's nothing I hide, but it doesn't have anything to do with it until I actually share something. And it actually was kind of prompted by you, which was really funny. Um, part it's just remembering this now because I think I posted something to Pride Month, which I've done for the last you know couple of years that I've had um an account. And I think you commented something like, congrats on you know coming out or like sharing this or whatever, um, in a really positive way. So it was not at all negative, but then I realized that it looked like I had been hiding it. So I was like, this looks like news when it's never been news. I was like, huh, this looked like an announcement when it really wasn't, um, which wasn't at all on your side, but it wasn't mine. So I was like, did I apparently, apparently I've not been communicating this. Um so I was like, you know what? It's not part of my business, but it's something that if people see themselves represented and see that there, it makes a difference to them. So it doesn't cost me anything to like share it and be more present with it, even though it's nothing I will actually do my work. Because I think that's actually even more important to say, like, you know, share all parts of you, um, and kind of what that resonates with. Also for the moment. Uh yeah, so definitely tip one, uh, find what like kind of drives you and why you're doing it and what effect you want to have with that leadership, right? So no, it's it's not just leading for bleeding's sake. Um, then the other thing is I think what we talked about a bit earlier is this connects to that too. Like, don't think you have to be perfect or you know, have to have all these like successes all the time. It's the human side very much in leadership nowadays that makes a difference, luckily. So share more of yourself than just your work. Uh, share also when things don't go, you know, well. There's somebody said this, I don't know who it is, but it's a good, you know, idea. You don't have to share in the moment. So, like when you know wounds are raw, don't feel like you have to share everything minute by minute. But once there's things are like scabbed over, once there's been a bit of time and you can reflect, then yeah, share those things that are relevant so you can also show people like we're not perfect. And um then the third thing, the last tip that I would give for kind of leadership is to also not forget that um you have to lead the way by actually doing. I think sometimes, and I totally fall on this trap, we get so much into like talking about it and showing it and not the doing of it. And I think you have to remember to also like be in the trenches basically and still be doing this work in some way so that you don't just you know share broad ideas, but can give very concrete examples and experiences from from what you've done of how that has or hasn't worked or whatever it might be. So don't just be just actually still doing some capacity. I think that's also important.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yes, that it really is. And especially if you're just getting started, you know, you can also just talk about like, this is what I'm doing, and this is how it went, and this is what I learned. And you're still leading by just sharing your experience. Um, because then you're, you know, a step or two ahead of somebody else who hasn't yet gone through that, but you're sharing, like, hey, watch out for this, or here's what I learned. Um, so yeah, leading by example is the best. Um, and then I was like dying laughing when you're talking about um my comment on your post. But you know, I think it is, I think it is relevant to your brand just because you were talking about like your mission is to serve underrepresented voices, which women, you know, the LGBTQ plus community and different different topics um and hosts. And so it's like, yeah, it's like, okay, okay. Um, so yeah, feeling like you can add it if you want to. Um, and it it kind of like connecting to to your overall message. I like what you said with that. Um, okay, so last question kind of on on being this type three. So threes are also very, very goal-oriented, and they're very efficient with goals too. So, unlike maybe the sevens for sure, and maybe the eights, even, um, they're visionary. They have that what's next future-focused energy, but threes can get it done. They can complete a project. Um, what are some of your tips? What are some things that you use in your own business to set goals and make them happen? Anything from like a daily goal, daily calendar to like yearly um practices, anything, any tips that really work with for you to get things done. Because we're really good at setting goals, but sometimes to actually complete them isn't as um, doesn't always happen as much.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yes, that's totally true. So, on a very practical side, I think since I discovered Asana, that's been my like go-to organization for my brain um for years and years. So, definitely writing it down is a huge thing for me. Um, you know, having to remember all the things going on. There's too many things I would like go crazy. So basically being able to at least have them order them. And then I think this is very much connected probably to the type three achievement mentality. I really have to cut down on my to dos because I have a tendency to over schedule myself to be like, I want to get these 10 things done today. And then you feel like a total failure at the end of the day when you didn't get like 10,000 things done. So when I can, what is it best for me is if I can say, like, there's one big focus for the day, like this is the main important thing that if I get this done, then you know, good. And then I can Have some like subtasks that I'm like, yay, if I you know get you these, that's great. If not, I do them tomorrow or whatever, I move them. But really, really reducing the amount I do and really focusing on what's like the one big thing versus um having to, you know, focus on 10,000 things at the same time. Um, and then the other thing when it comes to goal setting, I think that ties back to what we talked about in the beginning. Like, why do I want to do things, right? Is it just the project uh because you know, hey, it's it's gonna be, you know, for example, like speaking here. Is it am I getting invited to a podcast and I'm just gonna say yes because it's being a guest on a podcast and that's like visibility and whatever, and generally like, hey, stage? Or um actually, no, let me take a step back. Is it the right podcast for me? Does it actually make sense? Right. So um also learning to say no to things is a huge thing for me that I'm noticing is very important, especially because I've kind of like decided to do this like split role of both being a creator and an educator. So I have to be very mindful of how much time I spend on each because invariably, most of the time, the creating side um is the one that suffers if I go too much on the educating side.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, okay. And then that that's actually maybe a good lead-in to just really quickly a little bit more about what you're doing right now. Um, can you just quickly share with us the creative side, the creator side, and then the the teaching side that you're doing right now?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Sure. So uh the creator side is for me very much podcasting focused. So that's uh creating a podcast. I'm in the middle of creating a new one. My first one that I launched was four years ago now. Um, and that one has kind of concluded. It was a good ending point. The topics are not much, you know. You also started a new one, so you know how it is. And I've had a secret podcast with my community ongoing, so that's been an ongoing project, but I really wanted to create a very, very different brand, new one. Uh, I will be honest, very much getting in my own way by wanting to be, you know, spectacularly different. Um, and of course, making it more complicated than it needs to be. Um, but I am in a good progress with that. So there's I've had like 20 conversations already. The website is up, the name is up, um, design is up. So all that stuff is already there. Um, and you're gonna hold me accountable. That fall is the plan for that to launch. And it's gonna be a more broader podcast about, in its essence, likability. So it's actually called uh Please Like Me. And it's uh, I think it's very interesting. It's tied to my personality type, um, in the sense that I think likability makes sense and we're necessary. Like we need belonging, we need to be part of groups, we need to, you know, have our communities and you know, we need that recognition. But very often it does get in the way, right? Like impersonitis and perfectionism and imposter syndrome and all these things that crop up because we have this like want to be liked. And I think you're laughing because it's like, yes, that's very much the struggles of an of a type three. Uh, let's make a whole podcast about it. Uh, but the resonance is really great. So it's gonna be a mix of real life stories, uh, talking to experts, my own research, and kind of more like an investigative journalistic. So I'm going back to my roots. So that's the big professional creator project. And then on a personal side, um, I've been wanting to write a book for ages and I'm finally tackling that. But that one's not for the public stage just yet, or maybe ever.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Okay, I'm really excited about this, and it is kind of hilarious like how on point, like type three, if they were to create a podcast, they would call it please like me. Oh, I love it. Okay, so um that that is actually a good maybe transition into talking about what does um what how each of us in our own unique ways with our own unique personalities and motives um can start thinking about sharing our own voice. And I know that you are a little biased and like the idea of podcasting. Um so we're gonna um get into a fun little series that Kat has put together for you around kind of how to show up as your type. But first I want to ask you, what makes podcasting your favor? Like, why would you recommend somebody start a podcast over maybe like a blog or a YouTube channel?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So yeah, that's the this is like the switch right to my educator side. So since I started podcasting, um, so basically now my official title, quotation marks, since you know we decide what our titles are. Um, but it's uh podcasting and storytelling strategists, right? Because I'm very much about um creating the strategy for podcasts or your story, also as part of your business. So that's what I do um through courses, through coaching, all that fun stuff. And why podcasting? Actually, I will uh contradict you in one thing. I don't think people have to podcast. I love podcasting and I think it's a great medium for a lot of people, but I think one of the first blog posts I did was like seven reasons or seven questions to answer if you're deciding. Um, because for some people it's not the right one, right? I'm very much in like for some people, this is not going to be the right medium. And if it's not the one for you, then that is absolutely fine. Um, I personally love it because one of the connection piece. So just because of the time, people spend a lot more time listening to podcasts than they spend reading or watching. So a lot of the time you spend with somebody is much bigger. They usually take you with them, you know, uh be it like shopping or commuting or doing, you know, housework, whatever it might be. So there's a much deeper relationship that gets built. Um, I think for my achiever personality, it's also good the vulnerability piece. You can be much more vulnerable, has been my experience, both with myself and other people via voice video. You're very often more concerned about like how do I look and how am I acting, all these other external things. Um, and when you're writing, you have a tendency to self-edit way more. You're much more like, okay, let me revise this to death, basically. While when you're talking, sure, there's some editing you can do and all that jazz, but it's much more natural and much more, you know, how you actually speak and are. So I think those are the two factors that both under like who does it connect with audience-wise, why I like it, and both as a creator, why I like it. So those are the main two reasons.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Okay, out of curiosity, maybe I can link this in the show notes, but what is a reason why you shouldn't start a podcast? We can we can link the whole article.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, I'll definitely give you the the link. But um, some things is as capacity, right? I mean, as you know them, uh, a lot of people don't know how much work it actually is. So it is a lot more work. So if you want, you know, something much more simple, usually writing is the quickest. It is still obviously the quickest way to do that. And then you also have to look at um where your audience hangs out. If you have an audience that you're looking at that spends zero time on podcasts, then creating one is gonna be difficult to actually reach them, might not make sense for them. Um, another reason might be if you have a super visual thing you need to do. Like if what you're talking about needs to have visual explanations, obviously podcasting makes it a bit difficult. I mean, sure, there's ways around it, but it's you know, challenging. So there could be a lot of reasons why it's not the right one for you, um, or a lot of reasons why it is.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. And I feel like we'll have to maybe uh we'll have to do like a part two of this at some point in the future. Cause I think that you would have a lot um to share too for just like marketing it. And we're gonna talk a little bit about that, a piece of that in in just a minute. Um, but so I just I love what you do, and I I'm biased towards podcasts too, but totally get there are reasons not to. Um, okay, so you have um kind of broken down things to think about when we're doing our messaging um by type. So can we get into that now?

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Sure. Do you want to do all of them or do you want to do a selection of them? Because I think for your audience, create uh the actual full nine types. So you definitely can access that. But um do you want to choose some?

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yes, let's let's choose some and then we'll just kind of tease tease it a little bit. And then Kat does have um the whole guide that you can download. We'll put a link in the show notes and talk about that um at the end. So um, okay, how about I pick, how about I pick a type and then you pick a type. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, so let me think about, you know, a number that are type that we have not covered um up until the point of this recording is our type ones. And I know we have some type ones that are listening. We got a panel in the works for you guys, but let's let's talk about type ones real quick.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah, so maybe as a quick preem to to what this is, it's basically I looked at you know promotional tactics because people, whether you're launching or growing your podcast, you know, you want to find out what marketing or other things can I do to actually make this grow. And there's a lot out there. Like I have a course, and in there I cover 42 different ones. And A, that's a lot. I don't recommend everybody do everything. And B, um it also doesn't mean that every just like if the podcast isn't the right for you, it doesn't mean every tactic is right for everybody. So I kind of chose nine uh tactics that would work for Enneagram types and see what matches up. If you want to be, you know, a badass and do all of them, that's on you. But I definitely want to give you maybe one thing to try and focus depending on your type first. And I'm sure that um you'll include the link in the bio, but if not, it's catbrendel.com slash enneagram MBA, just the name of the podcast, and then you can also access all of them. But the first type, the reformer, right? So I looked at also your descriptions, um, Zara, and you said the principal idealistic type, right? And I think the the benefit of this type and then what you should use for the podcast promotion is your eye for detail, right? You're really good at like looking at the details, bringing things together, very organized, very mindful. And I think repurposing is a great thing to do for somebody who's a type one because you can take the content you already created, and there's a lot of different ways to repurpose. You can create a roundup blog post with like different takeaways from main episodes. You can convert the audio to video and upload it to YouTube or to other video channels to grow where people can find the podcast. Or you can even create bonus episodes where you pull from different um, you know, interviews you've had, conversations you've had, and may kind of do like a summary or the best of or whatever it might be. So this kind of gives um reformers, you know, a very structured way and very like they can dig into it, get into the details, and still use those skills to grow their podcast.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

That's such a good one. And it's like a time saver. And I know that type ones tend to be a little bit on the perfectionist side. And so it's like you know that they spent a lot of time working on the original piece. So, like you might as well get as much use as you can from all the time and the perfect post or the perfect episode that you just shared, and um yeah, repurpose it, use different ways, creative ways to to share about that with what you've already done. So that's such a good one and so perfect for them. Okay, what's another choice?

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, what's your type? You're you're a type seven. I'm a seven. Yes. Yeah, I remember that correctly. I was like, oh god, I'm gonna get it wrong, but I did. No, no, I got it. The seven, good. Um, so I want to do the type seven because it's yours, right? So um I have to cover that. So for the enthusiast, uh, you know, you're the busy productive type who's uh, you know, very enthusiastic, as the word says. I think you should definitely use that because I always say your podcast's bigot ad biggest advocate is you, right? You're the one that is most passionate about this thing than everybody else. So I say infect new listeners with this kind of like high spirit you have through being a guest on other podcasts. The best way to grow your podcast is to be a guest on other people's podcasts. I it's kind of you know a no-brainer that they're already podcast listeners. If you find topics that are somehow connected to yours, it makes sense to go on there. And it's totally your personality type to kind of infect new people with, you know, your passion and your enthusiasm for what you do, and they're gonna hop on over to yours after listening to these guest interviews. So for you know, your type seven, I say guesting on podcasts is definitely a great uh strategy to do.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Oh, that's so good. I love that that's that's the one for the seven. Um, yes, and and that's one too. Like if you're not ready to start a podcast yet, and like again, going back to that capacity that you were talking about, it does take time. It's like this is a great way to still have that voice, that connection be in somebody's ears, but you don't you're not responsible for editing or putting it together, um which sevens would appreciate. Um, so that's such a good one. Okay, and then you did the rundown for all nine. And again, um, can you say that the website one more time? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

So it's just my name. So Kat Brendell, which is B-R-E-N-D-E-L, and then dot com slash and then Enneagram M B A. So just the name of this podcast. And then you can download uh the action sheet where it like goes over all the nine different tactics based on your Enneagram.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah, and I'm I'm I'm gonna download it too, because I want to know all the other ones too. Um okay, so so with um the other the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about is yes, we we can talk about podcasting. And we did, we've done that before in a previous episode in my first podcast, by the way. Um, and and so we maybe I'll bring that back out of the the archive um at some point and replay that. But um I think something else that you're really great at is what you said that you put in your title now is storyteller. And so kind of as we start to wrap this up, and as people are thinking about um maybe starting a podcast or ways to improve their podcast, or just you know, share their voice in whatever way that is. Um, I want to talk about storytelling and what exactly does that mean and how can we use it? So it's like, okay, tell a story about myself, like what story? Um, can you just right off the bat, just kind of like talk to me about the benefits of storytelling versus maybe just like sharing facts or statistics?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah, so um, for those who are very analytical, the most convincing fact is that it makes everything, I think about 33%. I might be fudging my number, but definitely much more memorable. So it makes facts and figures and information you're sharing much more memorable in people's minds. And you have to think that's completely logical. If you remember before we had like the written word, people used to tell stories to pass on information because that was the best way for people to actually remember things. And, you know, we have like this oral history, which came from the fact that this is how we conveyed information through stories. And so, yes, it definitely makes whatever you're sharing way more memorable. It also injects it automatically with like personality, maybe more information about you. So gives it more of a connection piece. And it's just much more gripping. So if you um, I think that post that I did about the Instagram, if you start a sentence with like, did I tell you about that time I gave myself a black eye? Right, that's much more interesting than I found out my Instagram type is you know, type three. This is why I think it's my strength thing, right? You know, it's you know, much more interesting for people to listen. So there's a lot of reasons uh why it makes sense, both on the convincing side and also because we are naturally storytellers ourselves. Whenever you're with friends and family, you always are telling stories.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yeah, yeah, and you're right, it's so much more engaging, so much more interesting. Um, as uh a course creator, a coach, a business owner, are there like specific types of stories that we need to start thinking about? Because it's like, oh, he just tell a story about like when I went to Target or like what, like what am I telling a story about? And are there like specific ones we should have like get started with if we're just kind of storytelling one-on-one here?

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah, so I always say start with what is the big idea that you want to communicate, right? Because usually this can be very abstract big ideas. So maybe as a useful example, um, I think I mentioned this last time we talked, maybe that you have something valuable to say, something I want people to believe. But that's a very big abstract idea. Like I can say that, but that doesn't resonate necessarily. It's like, okay, thank you. Why? Like, I don't get it. So, first start with your big idea, what is it you want to say? And then you come to the point, okay, how can you make this point that you're trying to, you know, put across come alive? And here I want to point out that stories don't necessarily just have to be your stories. You can have the thought that yes, it can be personal experiences, it can be your stories, but it can also be stories from your students, students from your customers. It can be stories that you heard in the media, it can be you pulling from a TV show, an example, or a book or whatever it might be. They don't have to only be your personal stories, they can also be from other settings. So don't, you know, widen your net in that sense and be free to also include other things to mention in there. And then basically see how can you make communicate your big point through the story that you're trying to make. So it's actually, I would say, like a two-step process. And when you do it that way, it's not that hard because you're not just like trying to pluck stories out of thin air.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Okay. So step one, understanding your big idea. And then step two, I guess is like the actual story itself, knowing that it doesn't have to be your story. And maybe we'll link this to Kat, but you she did share a really great story of what she shared with us at the beginning of the podcast when she was um talking about being an Enneagram type three. And she had this really beautiful graphic. Um, but there was like this whole story underneath it. And then it was like, oh, this is how I knew, like, I've always been a three. And then that was so much more interesting and engaging. And um, I felt more connected to Kat, even though you know I kind of already know you, but if especially if I didn't, um I was like, oh, that was really fun to hear a little bit about her childhood. And it's like, oh, this is like a fact or something like I'll remember about her. Um, and so that that is um those stories are so great. And I liked what you said about like a client story, um, like a before-after type of thing, I'm guessing. Okay. Um, and and just taking the pressure off like having to talk about yourself necessarily. Um, do you have any wise words for us on anybody who's like, oh gosh, I just hate talking about myself though. If they did, if there was a powerful story that would make sense for them to share about their self.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

So there's an exercise. So actually, I think we can link this to I had a whole post on owning your story and kind of how to find your stories and own them. Um, because owning them is an important next step, just having them, but then not being willing to share them is a big one. So there's different strategies in there that you can use. But one big one is write it from your like best friends or biggest cheerleaders' perspective. So you don't feel like you're writing about yourself. Because very often when you write about ourselves, we get, you know, we were like, oh, we have to be much more humble. Let's play down things, let's not, you know, talk about them. But if you kind of like step away and pretend this is somebody that really, you know, admires you for that thing you did or whatever, that experience you had or whatever, um, then you're much more open about how you write about it. So that's one little exercise that you can do about owning those stories. And then two, too, you can test them out in smaller interactions first, right? You can have them maybe on a one-on-one conversation you have with somebody, or when you're doing maybe a small workshop or whatever it may be, where you can see people's reactions right away. And that can maybe give you the impetus of when somebody's like, oh yeah, now that makes sense, or like I get it much more, or you know, that made me understand you or this or whatever much better, which maybe then gives you the courage to share it on a you know a bigger stage or more publicly.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Okay, okay, I like that. And then um with stories, I'm gonna put you on the spot for just a second, but I think you can handle it. Um let's say that we're gonna use storytelling in talking about something that we're gonna sell. So maybe we're launching a course or a new like one-on-one coaching offer. Um, you know, what we might tend to do is say, hey, I'm opening this, um, you know, 12 modules, blah, blah, blah, get on the wait list or whatever. Um, what is an alternative way to do that through storytelling?

SPEAKER_01 42:30

So I think the first step is kind of looking where is the person that you're trying to, you know, reach with this at? Like, what is it, their current situation? And then there's you can always um choose two avenues. You can kind of go like the dream perspective of like where would they like to be? And then you can paint that picture of um maybe let's take the example of being a guest on podcasts because I did a masterclass on this recently, so it's so fresh in my mind. Um, you can be like, hey, was like another uh, you know, guest podcast invitation that fluttered into your inbox. You know, did you have another like 10 sales from this conversations that you had, whatever it is you want them to achieve? You can kind of use a story from somebody being in that position to, you know, get the interest. Or if it's something that's more, maybe people making more fear-based decisions because they they want to avoid something, um, then you can also paint what that would look like. Maybe you were even in that situation where you were maybe struggling with something, or maybe here is also you can use an example from a student or past client who are like, you know, um, they, you know, were spending hours and hours doing this thing, nothing worked, you know, they opened their inbox crickets, it you know, got really dejected, they couldn't even take out their husband for dinner, whatever the story is that it would might have been very specific to a situation. So kind of talking that to where are they at, what do they want, or what are they like currently afraid of. So that's the choice. And then the very, very big piece, the middle piece basically is like what transformation is taking place, right? And then here again, you can use yourself as an example, you can use somebody else. I, for example, had the good fortune that. One of the pitches I sent for a podcast got a super enthusiastic response back. So I was able to even like screenshot that and include that in the story. Like, this is this the type of response you want to get to, you know, your pitches. Um, then this is, you know, the transformation that can take place through doing this. And then of course, at the end, again, you can paint, paint a picture, a story of like what it will be by them completing that, by them doing that. At the end of the day, what does that look like? So if you look at those basically those three stages and find stories to fit that, both like where are they at, whether they fear or want, um, what is the transformation that takes place, and then what is the reality that looks like at the end?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Okay. And then last question on this. So I I you have your course on this, and maybe you can tell us more about that too. Where how else can we get better at storytelling?

SPEAKER_01 44:48

So I think you really need to practice. It's it's really super boring advice. You know, it's like, oh, great, this is the thing. Um, but it's true. And I think you should especially do it in settings that maybe you've already started to routinize something because it does, I think it's a good opportunity to do fresh air. So maybe if there's a standard um presentation that you've always given in one certain way, if there's maybe a webinar you've held a thousand times, if there's a course that you've already recorded and is already done, whatever it might be, something that you're already familiar with the material. So you don't need to like, you know, think of story and material and you know, all these moving pieces, and then look at it and see like, okay, what can I update? What can I change to add a storytelling perspective to this? I think those are easy places to start. So you can really focus on just that piece. And not only that, you can see the difference, right? Because you've maybe done it a certain way already a couple of times, and now you're adding only the storytelling aspect. Does that change the outcomes that happen? Do you have different conversations because of that? And then you can really evaluate um how it's, you know, what worked and what didn't in the storytelling way. So I think that's a good way to start. And then just try to do it in everything, be it an Instagram post, be it, you can even honestly when you're having conversation with friends and family and you're gonna tell, which we all do, story about something that happened to you, instead of just like rambling on to like, okay, can I make this more interesting? Can I make this maybe more structured? Again, you're seeing reactions live. So any chance you get, test it out.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Okay, and then you two have a course. Is this right? You have a course on this, how to storytell.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

No, so storytelling, I'm currently only doing one-on-one. So I have a storytelling uh power hour basically where you can uh we can go through stories because um the people I work with a lot have like, hey, I have a keynote coming up. I want to be a guest on podcasts and I don't know what my story is, maybe for my content strategy, and we elaborate together what that could look like.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Okay, that's so good, especially like if you are gonna be taking some seven energy and promoting yourself and getting on other podcasts, is to like develop some stories um that you feel really confident about sharing. So that's so good to know. Okay. Um, and then what else do you have? I have a couple rapid fire questions for you at the end that we'll close out with. But before we do, like, what do you have going on? Where are you hanging out? What should we know about um to learn more from you?

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah, so the website is always the best place to find everything. Um, if you want to launch a podcast, the Boss Pod Academy, my course um with optional coaching has been going well. And I also do a podcast power hour where you can pick my brain. Um, the website also has a lot of free resources, so you can check them out, including now this, you know, the nine podcast promo ideas based on your enagram type. And um, the newest thing that will reopen is my masterclass for being a guest on podcast. So if you say, hey, I maybe want to dip my toes into podcasting or you know, I don't know, I want to grow my podcast through guesting. I have a masterclass with templates and all fun stuff and stories that you can check out there. Um, and then of course, stay updated on the new podcast that's coming up. So there's definitely, definitely exciting things.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yes, please like me. Um, and then I have been on Kath's website and she does have a ton of free resources, everything from like what type of equipment to get. I know you just shared like some Canva templates or ideas on your Instagram feed. So she has a ton of free resources. And then when you're ready, um definitely recommend, you know, getting getting set up with her based on what you're wanting to do, guest or start your own. Um, okay, I always like to kind of end with some of these rapid fire questions, and they don't have to be a rapid answer. Um, but what's something that you what's something new that you're learning right now?

SPEAKER_01 48:32

So as I mentioned, I um the book thing is my big personal project at the moment. So I actually have a bit of a background in publishing. I've always been an avid book reader, but longer of a book reader than a podcaster. So that's definitely the OG. Um and I've always had it's the very typical, just like everybody who does, I've had an idea for a podcast, and then years past, nothing happens. It's been me with a book. It's like I've had an idea for a book for like about 10 years and then you know, start it and don't go. So now I kind of like recommitted to saying, like, hey, I'm actually gonna do this properly. Um, and I've been taking some great master classes by like Neil Gaiman and Key Yemizon, um, so great fantasy and science fiction authors, because that's kind of the direction I go. So yeah, that's something new I'm learning is uh fantasy sci-fi writing to finally do this thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Oh, I love that. Um, what is what is something that like you're you're unlearning, you're undoing.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

I think this is very tied to um, you know, tied to my type, but kind of like productivity and output defining my value. Um, you know, especially I think I'm, you know, going against my type a little bit by going so much in the like artistic side of things because the challenge of that, it's very like subjective, and you know, there's no like you know, standardized measurements of success in that sense or what is going well or how it you know works. So having to be much more mindful about um, it doesn't have to have a you know monetary end goal or it doesn't have to have this certain thing that happens out of it. Um, and removing my value from that based on that, I think that's been a big thing. Um, somebody said there's a saying, which is, you know, it's human being, not human doing, which is kind of the thing that I'm trying to embrace.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Yeah, that's like the like that is the growth for the three, is to actually not necessarily look like the stereotypical three. Like that's when you know you're growing, when you're like, gosh, I don't really look like this all the time. I'm not, you know, my worth isn't attached to my success or how much money I'm making, or um, and you know, we all have a little bit of that inside of us um for for the threes for sure. So I I love hearing that. Um, and then when somebody says, like, what just like I just want to live my best life or I'm I'm living my best life, like what does that mean for you?

SPEAKER_01 50:52

So for me, it's always been freedom. Um, so I think obviously everybody who goes into some sort of entrepreneurial thing tends has the tendency to value this a lot. But for me, it's really also had the freedom to kind of learn and be creative without like undue pressure to have the freedom to do that, um, to spend time with the people I love whenever I want to and however I want to, you know, not like dictated by other things. And at the end of the day, also, though, to make a difference. So not just like live into the day and you know have freedom and be happy, but also to have an impact and make a difference with what I am doing.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Okay, and then I have to ask, just because you are such an avid book reader, um, I'm gonna ask you too. So, what is a what's a book you're reading right now that you're loving or this year you've read and loved? And it can be fiction. And then is there a book that you would recommend for anybody interested in like marketing, storytelling, like business related book that might be helpful for us?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Okay. Oh, there's so many books. It's like I have to be connected with it. So, reading right now, I am reading Norse mythology by Neil Gaiman because also the book inspiration thing. Um, the book this year, I think that came to mind that I most like and most impacted me was uh Juliet Takes a Breath. It's a really good fiction book. Um it's short. I really recommend it. Also, if you want to see different perspectives and also great storytelling. And um, when it comes to kind of if you're in a business-y setting or maybe for like the audiences, especially if you're maybe a three, I recently read The Middle Finger Project by Ash Ambridge. Ash Ambridge, I'm saying that right, probably. Um and she's a great example, also for she's a writer, so um business writer. So she's a great example for storytelling and business, right? So how to make tell good stories for business. She's generally a great source for that. And the book specifically is great also, I think, for type threes in the sense it's very much about like letting go of convention, letting go of like being accepted or being part of something and really, you know, having the courage to send out in your business, in your life. Um, so I think for people who need that extra push, who also want great storytelling examples, that's a good business book to read. And it's fun. She curses all of them. I do warrant that.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

I know it was like, what a fun name. I honestly think that's on my list, which we were, I think, talking about like we both have like 7,000 books on our list. So it's somewhere in there. But um, yeah, such such a good one. I've heard good things about that one as well. But uh okay, I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you opening up about just kind of like what resonates with you. Is that Enneagram type three? I know that's not always easy, especially for somebody, you know, who is it's sometimes hard to be vulnerable and in that kind of way. And then I appreciate all you shared about um storytelling and the and the tips. And um, I do highly, highly recommend getting in touch with Kat, connecting with her over on Instagram, checking out her free resources. And then I know that she would love to hear what resonated with you about this, any action tip that you're gonna take away if you started your story. Um, I know that she would let you know anything, or she would love to hear from you, anything else before we head out, Kat, that you would like to share um to kind of consider this episode complete.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's always lovely to talk to you. I love the conversations every time that we have. So they're super valuable for me to always challenge me, which is great. And maybe as a parting word, especially maybe if you are listening as a type three, um, to really actually, or even if you're not, to take this impetus to kind of share, to put yourself out there, to find some ways to get personal, um, be it in a podcast or another medium, um, to kind of dig those stories out and not be afraid to show like all the different parts of who you are, because A, um, you know, you do have something valuable to say, as I say. And also B, um, we need those voices and we need to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

What a good way to end. All right, lady. I appreciate you being here. We'll see you soon. Thanks. I'm so glad you could hang out with Kat and I today. And I hope that if you have been thinking about starting your own podcast, that you got some sort of inspiration, motivation, a tip that will help you move forward in doing that. And what's great now is that you have a go-to resource to help you launch and grow that podcast. And I do want to make sure that you also grab the um promoting your podcast by Enneagram type that Kat put together. It's so fun. It's at our website, catbrindle.com forward slash Enneagram EBA. So definitely check that out and definitely let her know if you got anything from this episode, which I know you did. So it's I should be saying, let her know what you got from this episode, whether it has something to do with storytelling or podcasting or just her general experience as a type three. I know that she would love to hear from you. Love to hear what resonated. So, with that, I will see you back here very soon.