SPEAKER_01 0:00

I can't believe these words would ever come out of my mouth, but this interview that I just did about processes has been one of my favorite conversations ever. And so if you just heard me say the word processes and your eyes also started to glaze over initially, stick with me for just a second. Um, because I think I might change your mind. You might get to have your mind changed. Um, and if you love systems and structure and organization already, then you are absolutely going to fall in love with my guest today, who is Courtney Lazar. She runs an education agency called the Elevated Effect, which helps businesses create and implement systems so that they can A scale, and we get into an interesting conversation around scaling versus business growth and the difference there. And then B, so that you as a business owner can reconnect with your passion, your why, where maybe before implementing some of these systems, you've been just kind of bogged down with the day-to-day tasks, the mundane, the things that don't necessarily light you up. So this is a way to kind of reignite that fire. And uh I'm really excited for you to hear this one because not only will you leave inspired, but you're going to leave with several tangible takeaways that you can choose to implement as soon as getting done, as soon as you get done listening to this episode. Um, you'll also learn that Courtney is a type three with a wing four. So you've heard from Melinda in episode two as a type three wing two. Courtney identifies as a wing four. Um, and that shows up um in a couple different places. Our fours are kind of also called the the artists. And so with her wing three or with her wing four, um, that's gonna maybe influence a little bit more artistic ability, a little bit more style, and you will 100% see that energy in seconds of going to Courtney's website. And then also we get into a conversation around feelings and emotions, even though our type threes are in that feeling center of intelligence. Threes sometimes tend to be a little bit more repressed because they see emotions as getting in the way. So they will have them, but they will push them aside so that they can continue on to the goal. It's they see them as kind of just getting in the way and not being efficient. However, Courtney as a wing four has a little bit different of a take. So I'm excited for you to hear that part too. Um, if you resonate with a three and maybe don't identify with some of the things that you've heard about a three, you might resonate with her experience as a three too. Um so that'll be that'll be really fun to hear. So without further ado, here is Courtney talking about systems. Welcome to another episode of the Enneagram MBA Podcast. This is a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and company leaders who are ready to get to know themselves, who are ready to get to know and really understand their clients and their teams, and who are ready to learn how to get known as they package and promote their expertise and services in a way that truly aligns with their personality, motives, and goals. So grab your notebook or open your notes app, and I will see you in class. Okay, so today's interview is with Courtney Lazar, and she is a business, an online business systems educator for coaches. And this is this is probably I'm gonna try not to be selfish during this interview because I feel like um this is one of my weak points. So, but I know that there's a lot of us who, when we think of systems, it's like glaze over. Um, so we're gonna get into that, but we're also gonna talk about Courtney's type, which is she has identified as a type three with a wing four. So, first of all, Courtney, welcome to the podcast. And I I want to hear right out the gate, how did you know you were a type three?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and talk. Um, all things Enneagram is and systems, because like we were mentioning in our chat before, um, it's just so crazy how it like perfectly lined up with what I actually do in my job. So um I'm really excited to have this conversation. And like uh the same reason you just said selfishly, I'm excited to learn more about the Enneagram side too, uh, because it'll it's a little bit more foreign to me. Um, and the the way to answer your question, how I found out was I just honestly saw everybody on you know social media and stuff start talking about Enneagrams. And um, I like to dive into personality types. Like, for example, you know, in college we took our strengths finders test. And then when I first started out in this space, I did my Myers Briggs. Um, and I was really kind of shocked at how well they, you know, kind of pinpointed my personality. Um, and I had even done like uh the Myers Briggs test. We were driving to Savannah, Georgia one time um with my husband, and I had him do it, and we his result was like dead on. I was like, man, this stuff does not, it's accurate. And so when Enneagram started to get popular, I was like, okay, now I have to see what type of an Enneagram I am. Uh and so that's really how I went. I just was really honestly curious because I think it just it's helpful to know because it, I think it gives you more insight to who you are as a person, but also just like your strengths, your weaknesses, and then ways to overcome those things based on your personality type.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah, you know, I've heard before um some other Enneagram teachers say that like the Enneagram sometimes is a little uncomfortable because it's not like strength finder where you're like, oh, just like all of my strengths. Like the Enneagram will be very enlightening to a lot of the shadow part of yourself, um, which is it can be really helpful. Um now I know you said you identify most as a type three, which is known as the achiever or the the role model. What about that type? Was like, oh my gosh, yes, this is so me.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Um, I'd say it probably just kind of relates. Look, so I I was an athlete my entire life. Um, so I was a gymnast for nine years. I was in every sport in high school. Like I did not really know much life outside of sports. Um, and so I think from that aspect, it made total sense because I was super competitive. Um, I was a perfectionist when it came to even not just sports, but my school work too, you know, wanting to make sure like I had really good grades and, you know, kind of went above and beyond from that aspect, which that's all good, but I will say that that does come with like uh I wouldn't miss, I mean, I guess it's not a negative, it's it's a negative side. I mean, it can't be a negative side, that's fine, you know, like the shadow side of that is, you know, that you have really high expectations for yourself and that makes it hard because you constantly feel like you're in go, go, go mode all the time. I don't ever feel like I can just like let myself relax. Um but I'd say that's where I really started to first, you know, kind of see those that identifier, you know, showing up in my personal life.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

So yeah, and it's really it's interesting. And we all we all have like online types. So a lot of us, even if you're not type three, you're probably relate to some of what Courtney shared. But for threes, especially, like their value tends to depend on what they do. So, like they, you know, human doings versus human beings. And so it's like how valuable I am depends on how successful I am, which can be really exhausting. Does that resonate? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

It's it's yes. I was actually just gonna say, I just had this conversation yesterday because um, you know, at the time of this recording, I'm almost nine months pregnant. And so I'll be going on my maternity leave and you know, just kind of trying to figure out what life's gonna look like for myself with balancing, you know, um my son and work after that. Um, and you know, I had a conversation with my husband because for so long, success for me looks like how I'm helping to contribute financially. And with pausing working to be a mom for a while, it's it's I'm kind of having an identity crisis a little bit because um I kind of feel like I'm contributing less, but at the same time, I'm being a mom, which is a huge job to have and super, super important. And I'm totally aware of that, and he's completely aware of that. It's just hard for me to make that mindset shift in my head as far as what what does success look like? How am I contributing in my personal life with my husband or with our family? Um, and it's making me feel a little uncomfortable because I feel like I need to be doing more, even though the role I'll be taking on is a massive, massive role. Like I'm raising another human. That's a pretty big deal. It's just like that mentality shift that I'm trying to try to accept at this point and like try to wrap my head around that's been challenging for me too, that we've had to have conversations about because it's kind of stressing me out a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yes. And you know what? There there is such a difference between like self-awareness, which is the first step, but it's like just because you're aware of something, you're right, like doesn't mean that it's like, oh, okay, yeah, I don't have that problem anymore. Like that isn't a thing. Because um, for a lot of us who have these like unconscious childhood messages that turn into, you know, our core drivers in life, what we're running away from or running towards, um, it's hard to, yeah, it's hard to untie that. Like, I know that my success is not tied to my identity or my identity isn't like tied to my success, but still it's like, yeah, you you struggle with you constantly have to like remind yourself. Um, we all have those, we all have those things. It's like, yeah, who am I if I'm not making money? Like, what am what am I doing here? Um, so the other thing about threes, or one of the other things, is because they are so focused on succeeding, they have this very intense fear of failure, which nobody wants to fail, right? But for threes, it's really intense. So I just want to hear, um, and I said this before, Courtney, but I'm gonna say it again here while we're recording, that um there's a lot of Enneagram theory out there. You can read a book, you know, I have 10 books on my desk about the Enneagram, about type three, um, or whatever type it is, but it's like we're human beings. And so, like, I love these conversations that we're having to talk about like your personal experience as that. Um, so with that said, how is your relationship to failure? Like when I say that, like what comes up for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Uh yeah, it's it's uncomfortable, right? Like it's not uncomfortable conversation to have, it's failure is uncomfortable for me. Um and again, this actually just came up yesterday. I think my husband and I were talking about something and he, oh, his brother's getting married um tomorrow. And he lives in Europe, and so we're not able to attend. Obviously, I can't fly right now. Um, and so we needed to make, we want to make a quick video for them so that they could watch it at the reception and you know, give them our congratulations. And he was like, Do you think you'll be able to get this video made by tomorrow? And I was like, Look who you're talking to. I don't know how to fail, you know. Um, and that was literally a conversation we had last night because I it's it's a failure, it's a part of life, right? And it's not that it's necessarily failing, it's just not maybe living up to the result that I had anticipated, right? Um, you know, for example, like we talked about before we hopped on this episode, we're mid-launch right now. So we're excuse me, we're relaunching our course. And, you know, with that comes, you know, is it gonna do well? Is it not gonna do well? Um and trying to not tie myself so much to the outcome, is really hard, you know, for me to do, um, especially because of how I look at, you know, success versus failure in my head. Um, but that's again something that I've struggled with my entire life. Like if, you know, I did less than perfect at a you know gymnastics competition, or if it was um, you know, maybe not making the uh dean's list in college or something like that. Those were all like really high expectations I had set for myself where failure really if it rears its ugly head, it is not a could be a comfortable thing for me to experience. Um, but I am getting more comfortable with being uncomfortable in that situation, um, or just being accepting that it's not failing. It's just a learning, um, you know, a learning time in my life. And that's really all that it is. And that's kind of, you know, I've talked about it in the past, um, you know, with starting my business. When I first started my business and I left my nine to five, um, you know, two things were kind of at the forefront of that decision. One was I wanted a certain type of lifestyle. I wanted to travel the world and, you know, live like a digital nomad and live independently. And that was what I wanted, you know. This was four years ago. Um, and so that's really what I wanted to do. And I was also just terrified of failing by like I was scared to tell people that I was quitting my job to work for myself because I didn't want to fail and then have to turn around and admit that it didn't work out. Um, you know, thankfully that hasn't happened. Um, but when I talk about, you know, what is success, we talk about that a lot with my students, honestly, like identifying what success looks like for us. Um, and I think that it's good to understand that it can evolve with your life. And that's what's great about running your own business, is it can also evolve with your life. And so, for example, now I'm married and we just bought our first house and we're having our first baby in a couple of weeks. And so my lifestyle looks completely different now than it did when I first started my business four years ago. And so, you know, and I did do like the traveling stuff for a little bit and you know, worked for myself independently, did the digital nomad stuff. And so, you know, for a little bit, I was like, did I fail? Did I not do what I, you know, said I was gonna go out to do? But it wasn't that I failed. It's like I accomplished it, but my my life evolved and that transition was uh, you know, it's wasn't a failure, it was just my my life evolving. So very long-winded answer to your question, but that's kind of no, that was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

That's perfect. I want you to be the one doing most of the talking. So that was perfect, you know. Um fail that fear of failure is very real for all of us. And I know that that has to be like, if not the number one, one of the top reasons why people don't pursue something new. Um, and I will get to the your your jump story maybe in just a minute, leaving that nine to five and starting your own. Um, but what is there any other advice or any other lessons that you would have to share with somebody else who's thinking about taking that leap? Or maybe they're thinking about pivoting. I just interviewed um somebody a couple of weeks ago about doing something they used to be a copywriter and now they're creating this is episode two with Melinda Martin, by the way. Um, now they're starting this whole kind of new lifestyle brand for parents um with kids. And that was scary because she got known for something. So there's all kinds of leaps and fears of failure. But what advice would you have for anybody who's kind of stuck on the ledge because they're they have that fear of failure?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think, you know, I think there's a couple of things to think about. And what I think my big driver was is I never wanted to become complacent in my life, if that makes sense. I just I didn't want my life to sit stagnant just because I was scared. Because for me, just sitting in a situation that just didn't feel very fulfilling or maybe didn't totally feel aligned with the direction I wanted my life to head, that feels worse to me than I think failing does. Um, and so I think for me that was a big thing where I was like, you know, at least I tried. Um, at least I took the leap and like took a bet on myself because if I didn't, then I would just still be sitting where I was at. Um, that's a conversation that I have with my my little sister quite often. Um, just because, you know, but she's not exactly happy in her, you know, current job. And she's really that's one thing she's really struggled with is you know, taking that leap to try something different because it's scary, right? Um, and because of the potential that it may not work out or something like that. And so I think that's like my my big driver is I just complacency is not something I'm more uncomfortable with complacency than I am with failing. Um, and I think that's probably part of the achiever side of my personality is I don't want my life to just sit. Um and that's not to say that um, you know, it's not okay to just be content with your life, right? I think that there's a difference between the two with between being complacent and being content. Um, because I think that's another thing, you know, as an achiever that is hard for me is like when I accomplish something, instead of like just sitting in that accomplishment and like being proud of it or celebrating it, I'm on to the next thing. I'm not I don't really think about like holy crap, look at all that you've accomplished. It's I am more concerned about what am I gonna do next? Like what's the next big thing I need to do. Um, and so from the fear perspective, I think really for me, it was just kind of you know, sitting down and being okay with failing if it happened, because I would rather try and fail than not try at all and then just wonder for the rest of my life, what if I had done this differently? Um, and so that's that was the big reason and my the reason I left was because I'm like, if I don't do this now, you know, I may never do it, and then I'm just always gonna wonder. And so that was what kind of pushed me over to do that.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yes. And you know, for for me, because I I've made a similar leap, and there were there were lots of reasons that ended up pushing me over the edge. But one of them was I had a good friend that I had worked at Starbucks with when I lived in Chicago, and he was actually my manager at the time, and he was like on the fast track to like, you know, Starbucks um executive. And um he ended up leaving and starting his own gym. And he opened another gym, and then he opened another gym, and then he opened like a brand, and we stayed in touch, and um, it was like five years later. I mean, we had stayed in touch the whole time, but for whatever reason, it hit me that I was like kind of doing the same thing. I wasn't still at Starbucks, but I was still um, you know, living this life that I was just like waiting for something to take off. And here he was, had like jumped and made a really risky decision, leaving safety and security and this great job. And that was kind of the thing for me, just you know, reiterating what you said was like, I was like, wow, like look how much he has accomplished. And like I'm still standing here thinking and trying to figure out the best thing for me to do when I will never know that until I I just jump. So I feel that too when it's when it's like, yeah, nobody wants to fail, but also you don't also want to like wake up 10 years from now and still be in the same spot, basically.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that's that's a lot of the feedback that I got from like my friends and just acquaintances, is like after I'd quit my job and it, you know, my business hadn't failed. And because my business hadn't failed, I was able to, you know, live my life very differently than um, you know, a lot of my peers were. You know, like I mentioned, I did the travel thing for a while. So I went backpacked Europe and I, you know, I got to live a lifestyle that I decided for myself. And I that's a lot of, you know, I'd have people message me on Facebook or Instagram and saying, like, how are you doing this? And I'm like, it's I just decided to. Like it was just uh like you said, you took a jump, and that was just I just decided. And it was nothing more than that, right? I had never run a business before, I had zero clue what I was doing. Like, there's probably millions of people out there that are way more qualified to do, you know, or to to start a business than I was. I mean, I was 23, 24 at the time, and definitely not, you know, I wasn't exactly a seasoned, you know, I I I mean, I'd had jobs my entire life, but I hadn't run a business. So um I'd say that's you know, it's just doing it. And I was just trying to figure out, figure it out along the way, which for myself, you know, being that achiever type A, you know, I like a plan and I like to have a plan. And I didn't really have one. And so that whole season of my life was it was uncomfortable, but it's been, you know, obviously very worth it at this point.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yes, it has. Um, I I want to go back to something that you said. You said um you're just kind of always thinking, what's next? Like you get to the goal and then you're what's next. And that is very typical of a type three who's in the assertive group with the sevens and the eights. They have this future focused energy, kind of what's next, um, looking to go far and fast into the future. Um, the other group that threes are in are. group um is when it it comes to how they handle conflict. And the textbooks say that threes are in this group with our with our ones and our fives where when something happens, they're putting emotions aside and thinking, show me the data, don't give me the drama. And for three specifically, they're thinking there's got to be an efficient solution to this. Let's just sit down and get to work. What does that feel true for you? And if so, what oh yeah very very true.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Especially when it comes to like my personal life, right? Like my relationship with my husband as an example. I'm a very much about finding solutions. And so if something were to come up in our personal life like we disagreed about something or you know we had to have a more than you know maybe not a pleasant conversation about something I am I I hate walking away from the conversation without a solution right I'm like okay this is the issue what are we going to do to fix it you know moving forward you know and he's complete opposite of me. He is let's sleep in under the rug it's fine you know which that works for him it does not work for me. And and we've really had to uh you know try to navigate our personalities and and how we resolve conflict in our personal life because we are so different about it. And he has kind of gotten to the point that he knows like okay before we walk away from a conversation she needs like a closing statement if that makes sense. And it's not necessarily every time a solution because there's not you know always a solution to something but he knows that I am always like okay well are we gonna discuss this later like what's going to happen which you know I'm also aware that that's not always the best thing right sometimes there's just not a solution and sometimes you just need to kind of sit with what you're you know what the issue is or you know something like that. It doesn't always have to have a resolution. And you know and I always when I was I would read about stuff you know don't go to bed angry and things like that. But sometimes you just need to like walk away from a conversation and let yourself like decompress a little bit. And so I think that's kind of you know what we talked about previously like recognizing our strengths but also recognizing when it's potentially a weakness or you know a shadow part of our personality and I am completely aware that that's probably not helping our conflict resolution all the time. And sometimes it is okay to just walk away there's not a solution let's calm down you know whatever that looks like but I'm very much like let's approach it head on like what are we going to do to solve this problem and how we're gonna make sure it doesn't happen again. Right? Like that's 100% my personality um and so that's definitely uh definitely been something that I've had to work through myself too um in my personal life.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

So yes yeah that efficiency is kicking in like how can there it's got to be an efficient solution let's just yeah get to it exactly um the so another thing that's kind of tied into this and I would just love to hear your personal experience with this so um threes are in the heart center of intelligence meaning those types in that center like feel first and they're they can be really in touch with their emotions twos, threes force. Except for threes they're actually repressed a little bit in that in that section or that area because they're so focused on efficiency they see emotions as being unproductive and just getting in way of the goal. So I know that you run a team I know that you know you've talked about the relationship with your husband I know that you're you know I'm sure have family and friends and students how do you handle maybe your own emotions when those come up do you allow yourself to feel them how does that work and then how do you handle others emotions when they when they come up yeah so I think that's probably a uh an outlier for me and when it comes to my personality type because and my husband would agree with me on this I am a more than I mean I'm I'm pretty I'm emotional.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I I can be emotional um and uh I I'm a I'm a feeler so like I'll just give you a very embarrassing example um I cannot kill a bug in my house right like I cannot do it at all because I cannot stop thinking about what that bug might be thinking right like this is a very embarrassing this is just kind of an example right and so even if you know I remember one time I was taking a shower and there was a wasp in the bathroom um and I like you know wrapped myself up in a towel and I ran into the kitchen and I got a jar of pickles out of the kitchen or out of the refrigerator and I dumped it out just to go catch this wasp and go put it outside. And so I think that's my one outlier to be very honest about my personality because I am very emotional or I'm always trying to think about like what somebody else is thinking um because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings or I don't want to play into a part of you know contributing to a negative emotion for them. And so I think that um is probably maybe a little bit different for my personality type but as far as team and like work goes and how I kind of navigate it that way. Number one, when it comes to actually running the business we or like the decision making processes in the business there for a while it was really really hard for me to make decisions because I'm kind of a people pleaser um or I was at one point when I first started my business. I want people to be happy with the work I'm producing. I want them to be happy to work with me and if they're not I want to fix it like how how can I make your life easier right but what happened is that led to burnout because I was constantly trying to take care of everybody else versus my own business. And at the same time um yeah I mean I think I think burnout's probably the biggest thing that you know reared its ugly head because of being a people pleaser. And so I had to get comfortable with saying no and like turning down opportunities and work and things like that. And again I think that has something to do um with the achiever side you know always wanting to achieve or um you know I guess people pleasing probably leans into that a little bit um but but yeah I think that's that's probably um a big piece of it. But with the with my team and this kind of plays into the emotion part is I always want to I I always check in with my team like I'm always messaging them privately I'm saying how are you feeling is there anything I can do to support you are you feeling overwhelmed how can we avoid that like you know I don't want my team to ever feel like I'm not there to help take care of them. And so I think I yeah I don't know if that goes with a three to be very honest. It kind of doesn't feel like it does but maybe it does and I just don't know. But that's kind of how I navigate that um with my team and with my business.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

So it it totally goes and even if it doesn't like that would be perfectly fine too um but so three superpower is this ability to like read a room and be able to so they have that like those empathetic vibes um and they're able to kind of like adjust accordingly to be whoever they need to be in order to um you know take care of that person or to to blend in if needed which is a superpower and then it can also you can lose yourself at times too with that. But that that sounds um very on point with that doesn't you have empathy you have empathy for a wasp so like yeah and also um and this will kind of lead us into the work that you do but um I know that you mentioned you also identify as a wing four which are the feelers on the Enneagram that they feel the most. Yeah yeah so you got some you got some four feelings in you um and fours I'll just I'll say this and I want to hear I want to hear what resonates if anything from this but um type three wing four are called the professional and um they're really good at they I we mentioned this before I mentioned this before they can almost resemble a one they're a little less outgoing according to the textbook than maybe the the three wing two um and are really task oriented. So that's where those maybe one vibes come in. Yeah and I know that like your whole business is built on systems. Yep. Yeah yeah so it's like okay yeah maybe this is like so so Courtney right now.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah um what yeah what about that resonates? Yeah so um my yeah my whole business is literally systems processes planning like that's what my business revolves around and it wasn't um it I kind of fell into it because when I first started working for myself um when I was trying to think through okay I want to start my own business uh I at first I was like I'm gonna be a web designer because that seems like probably the the best way I could make a decent living in the remote space. And then I started taking on my first web design clients and I'm like I hate this. I'm not creative you know this is totally uncomfortable for me. You know like I could look at another website and like duplicate it but I could not come up with a design in my own head right I just if somebody came to me and said oh you know I kind of want it to look like this I'm like okay well good luck with that because I can't come up with that. It just was not a you know with my personality type. And so I did that mind I kind of like some mind mapping and started like listening okay what am I good at? What did I, you know, of my past jobs did I enjoy doing you know I loved organizing I love planning and and how can I monetize that in an online space. And so I found this term kind of being thrown around called an OBM. And those for those who don't know that's an online business manager and they basically basically kind of come in as you know like the right hand in your business like an operations manager. They help you manage your team, your business, etc. And so I did that for about three years and then I pivoted my business um about a year and a half ago to solely focus on systems because that's what when I was you know being an OBM I was noticing the part that I loved the most like when I would come into somebody's business, you know, I kind of like to compare it to like an HGTV episode of like when you flip a house, the dirtier the house, you know, the the cooler the flip right and so that was how it felt for me like the messier the back end of their business was, the more I loved it because I got to see that before and after right. And it was very satisfying for me to be able to go in and say okay here's all our holes here's what why these things are happening and here's where we can make it better. And then I got to make it better and that's what lit me up right and like that part of my job was what was my absolute favorite. And so I was like okay why don't I just find a way to do this every single day. And so that's what I did and that's how I pivoted my business we, you know, solely focused on doing like full setup system setups for my clients or just doing click up setups. Click up if you're unaware is a project management tool like kind of similar to like Asana or Trello Basecamp um Monday.co if you've heard of any of those. But it's in my opinion by far the best. And so that's what we ended up switching to. And so that's literally my job now it's it's systems. It's teaching systems to other people in their business because like you mentioned at the beginning of the episode, you know, whenever you bring up systems your eyes kind of glaze over and that's very true for a lot of people like I don't you know I like to kind of say you know systems is not the sexy stuff of business right it's not it's kind of like legal nobody really wants to do it but it's so important if you want to have a scalable business in order to kind of surpass what you currently have as far as like a plateau or income ceiling you may be hitting because you're either you know like a solopreneur or you have a team but there's no systems and so the team's kind of flailing around and we can't scale past our current current capacity. And so yeah so that's really kind of how I got to where I was and obviously makes very much you know makes sense for my personality. So um just kind of I mean paying attention to what I liked and and making you know the decision to pivot and do more of what I liked versus staying in what I didn't like so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Well I love your and I don't even know that you meant to do this but it's almost like your process for figuring out like how can I start my own business. And it's like what am I good at? What do I like? And then how can I monetize that? And what I I think um is one of the biggest takeaways from this is just that like you didn't start out doing what you're doing. It's like you did a graphic design or website design, you did you did the OBM and then here you are. So it's not I think sometimes there's like this pressure to be like oh my God what am I going to do for the rest of my life once I make this jump. And it's just like the next step. It's just like the next right turn not like the business for the rest of your life. Yeah. Okay, so what okay so yeah I I mean I have to be honest um systems especially me in a type seven where I'm like oh I hate you know structure news alert um but yes they are so important. I just kind of want to start with this question around you mentioned scaling and then I know you've also talked about growth business growth and that seems really sexy and fun but like scaling what's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah so I mean they can kind of go hand in hand right your ability I mean your business can grow right your business can grow um and you know growth could look you know monetary it could look um you know like okay I hired a team member or we took on more clients right that that to me would be growth scalability in my opinion is your ability to be able to successfully scale past your current um ceiling in your business if that makes sense because we can um we can hire team right we can hire team we can bring on more clients um but I think the difference is really kind of looking at what does the back end of my business look and feel like right so for me yes okay I'll just kind of give an example um when I was in OBM I grew my business right there's that growth word I grew my business I had 14 clients I had me and one other person on my team that I I mean she didn't really help with client work she helped with more like back end stuff and so that was not scalable because my business relied on me being available and present to grow. And so I was not able to successfully scale my business past where I was because I built my business around me. And that was not scalable and I didn't have enough systems in place to successfully take on new clients um because I hadn't you know I hadn't taken the time to really think through what does a successful system look like in my business. And so I think that's kind of the difference between the two between like hey my business can grow but it can only grow to a certain point. And there's a difference between being a scalable business model and just a business that's doing well but kind of kind of flailing in the back end. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

It it does yes and I had never thought about it and I I saw something you had shared on Instagram around that and I was like gosh that's such a good distinction and something I'm really into right now is because I work a lot of my client students are also coaches. And so um which people get into to help people mainly to follow up a passion. And um sometimes we lose or maybe we never even think about being a CEO. And so we have a coach hat on at all times and never step into a CEO. And so I think that just like what you're doing and just what you described then is just like one way to put that CEO hat on and still help people and coach. Okay and this is kind of a leading question but um I'm assuming that one of the benefits of scaling is to to have more time to do the thing you do want to do.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

What what other benefit like what would be the the the motivation behind somebody taking the time to get these things set up yeah yeah so I mean you hit the nail on the head I think for myself and for a lot of our clients is getting time back right I think that's the biggest thing because we start our business and we don't really I mean I didn't anticipate it to you know grow or become as successful as it did as quickly as it did. You know, I think that happens you know thankfully to quite a few of us you know we unexpectedly are successful. And what comes with that is okay I started my business because I'm passionate about something. So for example if you're a coach you're passionate about helping people or in some you know some capacity and that's great. But then when your business becomes successful there's a lot more backend work that comes with that right you don't just get to coach anymore. You have an entire business going on in the back end. And for I would say like for coaches specifically you know or just kind of more the creatives um visionary types uh you know that's only going to be sustainable for a certain amount of time. And we're gonna get to this point where like crap I only have enough room to take on one one more you know one-on-one client or I really want to start a group coaching program but I've got all these one-on-one clients I can't be present on calls all week long every single day like how do I make this scalable and so I think it's kind of recognizing okay what do I want my business to look like and what do I need to have built in the back end to support doing that so that I can you know successfully um have more revenue coming into my business, be able to step away from my business and take a vacation. You know, so for example if you are a coach maybe it's doing something like you're implementing systems but you're also hiring co-coaches right maybe you're hiring co-coaches to come in and help support your um your packages and your services and I think that's another thing too to kind of look at from a systems perspective is evaluating your offers right I think that's another big thing is are my offers supporting the long-term lifestyle that I want for myself um when I first started my business you know there's all this talk about your mission statement and your vision statement and all these things and I was like I don't need to write that down that's fluff right I I'm a very you know type A like give me give me the tasks right I don't want to write a vision statement but the problem that came with that down the line is I started saying yes to everything and every opportunity that came my way and what happened is my business was kind of just going in a circle. It wasn't really going anywhere because I didn't know where I wanted it to go. And so when I finally I read this book called The Vision Driven Leader by Michael Hyatt and he very um easily in tangible steps explained this is how you create a vision vision. This is why it's important for your business and these are the steps to make sure it's being integrated in your business on a on a daily basis right and it clicked for me that way right it removed the fluff and it talked about like the like you kind of talked about the data like what's the the hard hitting stuff that I need to know and why it's important. And so when I'm making decisions in my business now I kind of like think of it as like a Cosmo magazine quiz if that makes sense. You know so if there's like an opportunity that presents itself and I ask myself does this get me closer to what I want for my life yes or no or for my business? And if it doesn't then I decline the uh the opportunity or what of the client whatever it is and if it does I say yes. And so that was another way for me to kind of also remove the emotion from decision making in my business because it helped me to decide okay is this actually leading me closer to my end goal? And if it didn't then it made it easier for me to be comfortable saying no, if that makes sense. And so from the packages and services perspective like are those serving your long-term goal if it's you know I want to be able to only work you know 25 hours a week or whatever that looks like making sure that the decisions we're making and the systems we're implementing to support that support that long term goal. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

It does and that's so good. And um that's going to be really helpful for those of us who do have that shiny object syndrome more so than maybe other people and um this is just making me think of something Courtney I'm laughing because I I I've had to ask myself like some version of that question in the past because there's times where I'm like, you know what, I think I want to be a cycle bar instructor um a spin instructor and then I'm like you know I might like do some interior design I don't know that sounds fun but then it's like yeah having that goal if like the goal was like can you do 10 things at once is like well then yeah like all that makes sense but that's not what I what I want like there is that goal. And so I I love that you said that. And I just looked at that book and I'm like, I probably need to get that book. Yeah. Um, so uh let me ask you this, and like everything that you just shared in there was like so so valuable. I was like taking notes for myself, um, even like evaluating your offers, and that's sometimes really hard, even just to like when you first start out, um, like, yeah, what's my offer? But again, when you have that value, like you were saying, or like your your vision rather, it's like, okay, then I can create some offers that align with that. Um okay, so let me ask you this vision or not vision, um, systems is a term that like I hear about a lot. And I like, I like we talked about, like for me, my eyes tend to glaze over and I'm like, yeah, systems, and like, yeah, there's like a sauna. Okay. And like they're just like so intangible. And for anybody else who might feel that way, can you just give an example of like a system or like maybe like a great system to focus on for somebody who's like just getting started with the thought of like getting the systems and scaling and places?

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Yeah, yeah. That's so that's a really good question. I'm glad you asked it because I feel like there is a big misconception or misunderstanding about what systems are, right? Because I think when somebody says, Oh, I want to put implement systems in my business, I think nine times out of 10 people associate that with technology, right? Like a software or a platform. Like, oh, if I'm going to implement systems, that means I'm creating an Asana account and I'm using Asana. But you know, but systems aren't just platforms, right? It's um it's processes, it's people systems, it's things that we're actually doing day to day in our business. Um, that's a system, right? And so an example that I could give of that is okay, let's I typically like to break it down. We actually just did a training on this last week. Um, there's five operational systems or in its it's a it's operations, right? It's the operational things that you do day to day in your business that keep your business moving, right? You have client management systems. So those are things like client onboarding, client offboarding. Um, you have sales systems. So how are like what's my lead generation process look like? How do I manage leads when they approach me? Um, what are my sales processes after I have a conversation with a lead? Um, what are communication systems even? So, how do I communicate internally with my team or externally with my clients? And what does that process look like? Um, and and so I think those are some, you know, good places to start in terms of okay, if you're kind of evaluating or auditing your business. Um, what I always recommend my clients doing when I first start with them, and this is good for anyone to start with, is evaluating the recurring tasks that you're doing in your business. I think that is square one for everybody because it's, I mean, that's where we're gonna really start to focus in okay, what am I currently doing? And what should I not be doing anymore in my business? So for example, if you were to just get out a piece of paper and write these columns, you know, daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually, you know, whatever cadence you kind of want to write it down and list out all of those tasks underneath those columns. So what do you do every single day? And it can be as, you know, mundane as I check my email every day. I check in on Slack with my clients every day. You want to write down every little thing that you do in your business every day, week, month, year, et cetera. And then what you want to do is you want to evaluate those tasks. And there's a couple of ways that you can do that. So it's kind of you can do um, um, I guess it's not like a mental check-in, but just how you're feeling about like the task itself and then a data check-in, right? And like how is this producing a return on my time in my business? So you want to go through those tasks and you want to mark them. Hey, what do I want to keep? What I want to keep doing on like I enjoy doing this task. What do I want to eventually delegate or currently delegate if you have a team to a team member? What do I want to automate in my business if possible? And what do I want to delete, right? What do I no longer want to do anymore? And I think that's the piece people skip a lot because I think when we're in a space of constant connectedness, um, you know, we're always seeing what everybody else is doing in their business. It's okay, this person has a blog and this person has a podcast and they're on Facebook and TikTok and Instagram and all these things. And so you see them being successful while doing all the things, but are those things actually going to serve your business, right? And how do I make that decision? And so I'll kind of give you an example. And this is where, you know, data kind of comes into play, right? But it's super important. So let's say, for example, you go and you engage on Facebook every single day for three hours and you get one lead that comes to your website from that or books a call with you. And then you go to Instagram and you spend one hour on Instagram engaging and you get 10 leads. Well, obviously, your time is much more well spent engaging on Instagram versus engaging on Facebook. And so that's a way to kind of logistically look at and see, okay, this is my time on Facebook is not producing anything in my business really. Like it's not helping push the needle forward in my business. I need to stop doing this task. It is not serving me anymore. And only focus on the things that are actually serving your business. And so when you're going through and evaluating that task list, those are some of the questions that you can ask yourself. And I think it kind of ties back to again, complacency. We're just doing it because we think we're think we're supposed to do it or because we've always done it versus okay, stopping and evaluating why I am doing this task. Is it serving my business? And basically going through and auditing your task list that way. And that's a really good place to start when it looks at when you're looking at kind of systemizing and leaning out um the efficiency piece in your business. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Yes. Oh, that's so good. Okay, let me ask you this. I got two more questions. Um, so kind of piggybacking off this question. Um, one of the things that I typically work with my clients on is content creation. And um, or I used to do more of that. And um, you know, people spend, I know, forever creating graphics and creating content and writing captions and trying to repurpose and just kind of what you were saying. And you shared something on one of your Instagram posts about like these five things that people think that they need and really what they need is to focus on systems. So for somebody who's maybe just starting out, kind of getting going, like what is what are some content tips? And I guess you just shared one around, you know, look at where you're you're getting your leads from. Um, anything else around like content creation? Because that just seems to be like such a thing around like visibility and and any tips for like systemizing it or just thinking at it, thinking about it from like a CEO perspective, than just like a coach who has to create content.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a big one that a lot of people get tripped up on is content. Um, you know, a lot of it, I think a lot of people get stuck in, oh crap, I need to write content for next week, or I don't even need, I don't even know what I should write next week. And I think the big piece to content is failing to plan. I think that's the big, you know, mistake that people make. And it's not necessarily failing to plan to write content, it's failing to plan the direction your business is heading in the next year as an example. Um, and so like what we typically would do is okay, we look at, you know, what are we launching? What do we have upcoming? What do I want to be focusing on in my content? And we do that, you know, typically on a quarterly basis, just because, you know, you can, I would say, plan out your year as well as you can, but things change in running a business so quickly that planning out details past 90 days really isn't going to be a good use of your time. And so I typically say on a quarterly basis, okay, let's look at the next three months. What do we have upcoming? What do we want to launch? What packages or services do we want to promote or what types of content do we want to teach on? And I would reverse engineer it from there, right? I would break that down and I would say, okay, how do I want to introduce this content this month? And maybe it's something you have like content themes or buckets, right? Like pillars that you focus on. Um and I would build that out. I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of batching content as much as possible. Um, and so we typically batch our content on a monthly basis. So it's we identify what we want to focus on, we draft the content and we create the graphics, I review and approve it. I will go ahead and say I outsource my content most of it, because this is it's the creative side. That's stuff that does not come naturally to me. And I am a very aware of that. Um, and I know that's not a good use of my time because what would take, you know, somebody else 30 minutes to write an email would take me probably two hours, right? And that's not a good, you know, use of my time. And so that is something that we have systemized a process in the back end um to batch out our content based on what we have upcoming in our business. So it's kind of a hard question to answer because I think it depends on your business a little bit in terms of how you launch if you do launch, or if your your business is more of an evergreen business where you just have products and services available all the time. So I think that's going to depend a little bit on how your business structure is. Um, but that's that's how we typically work a little on the back end as far as content goes for our business.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

So well, and I think that it's just it's just picking out what you said, I think was it's like that going back to that vision piece is like how important that is so you can align everything else. Yeah. Um, okay. Last question before I get into like my my rapid fire questions. Um what when should somebody start thinking about systems? Like, is it a certain revenue?

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Yeah, that's a that's a good question. Um, too. And it's really anytime, right? So when we have clients come to us, we have typically two different types of clients. Number one, it is somebody that started their business, it scaled really quickly, and they didn't have systems in place. And so they've hit this plateau, right? Like, I can't take on more clients, I need to hire, but I don't have systems in place. Um, and they're stuck in this hamster wheel because they have so many clients and they don't have time to take a step back and implement the systems that they need to move forward. Um, and so that's typically where we'll have a client come to us and be like, help, you know, I've set up my systems for me because I don't have time. Um, and so that's client number A or client A. Um, and then client B would be, you know, somebody that maybe they're just getting started and they recognize like systems are not my jam. Like I cannot do this. Um, they do not make sense for me, it doesn't click. I know I need help. Um, now if I were to say the best, you know, scenario for when to implement systems, it's immediately when you start your business, like because that's what's gonna make it easier for you to scale and grow. Nine times out of 10, most of us don't do that. I didn't do that. You know, I tried, but I didn't know what my business was gonna look like to build systems around to support it. And so I think that's why, you know, the recurring tasks is a really good place to start because it's just evaluating what you are currently doing versus what should I be doing or what should I be doing to support what my business is gonna look like. Because when I first started my business, I didn't know what I wanted it to look like. I had no idea, you know, there was all this, you know, you need to have an annual plan and a three-year plan. I'm like, I can't even see past the next month. Like, I can't, I don't know how I'm supposed to build systems around, you know, the next year or three years. Um, and so that's why I'd say like starting with those task lists for the beginners is good. But as far as when to implement systems, implementing them in some form or fashion in your business now is always gonna be the best solution. Because, you know, for example, I was just having a conversation yesterday um with somebody she is wanting to pivot to more of an agency in her business. And she knows that that's gonna happen in January and that she's gonna have to hire. Okay, well, what does that look like? We need to make sure we have um trainings and SOPs prepared for when we want to hire. We need to have an onboarding process. We need to know what their role is gonna look like. And those are all things that are best planned in advance, right? And then she messaged me this morning and said, I just found out that my team member is leaving this like in the next 30 days. And so her timeline drastically, you know, shrunk down. Um, and then you know, that's that's a good example of like, you know, if we would have had this stuff built out, this wouldn't have been an issue, right? We would have been able to effectively, hey, no problem, good luck. They go on their merry way, and we onboard somebody else because there's already an onboarding system and a training system in place to successfully onboard a team member. So, does that kind of make sense?

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Yes, that's so good. So pro, so CEO. Um, what what do you have going on now before we get to the last rapid questions? Like I know that you're in the middle of your launch right now. When do your doors close? What's next after that for anyone who's wanting to learn more? And then where are you hanging out on on social media?

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Yeah, so great question. So, yeah, we just opened doors to um, we've had our course actually for a while. It was called the Elevated System. Um, and it was a systems A to Z course basically. Um, we pivoted it and we completely revamped it, and now it's solely focused on systems for coaches. Um, and so that's really what we have going on right now. We have a cart close, it's next Tuesday, but we will probably be uh relaunching that pretty soon too, um, again, uh and maybe potentially turning in evergreen and being just available all the time. Um, but that is what we currently have as our big offer. We also do offer uh clickup setups. So if clickup's foreign territory and you just don't want to mess with it, um, that is our big uh primary service that we offer outside of our course. Um, as far as getting in touch at the Elevate Effect on Instagram, and that's my website as well. Um, and that's yeah, I'm happy to you guys have questions about systems, I'm more than happy to chat with you guys in the DMs. It's like I say, like my love language. So I love to chat about it anytime.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

So yeah, and well, I'll have to get with you too, Courtney. I'm assuming you have an affiliate link for clickup for anybody who's okay. So we'll add that to the show notes because that was new to me until I had found out about you on Instagram and I didn't even know that existed. So for people who are, we'll include that one. Um, okay, what's something that you're learning right now?

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Ooh, oh, that's a good question. Um, something I'm learning right now, I would say, is to slow down. I think that's a big one. We had a very, very busy year. Um, we, you know, are expecting our first baby. We got married in May. We bought our first house in February, we're renovating the house while also simultaneously planning for the baby to get here. And I have my business I'm running, which is a complete, you know, project in itself. And we're launching. Um, and we're also launching a podcast at the you know end of the month. And so we have had a million and one things going on. And I am I'm really trying to go into more of a season of learning to slow down a little bit and just be present versus going, going, going all the time. Um, and so I think that's that's a really big one that I'm trying to focus on right now.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Such a good one. What's something that you're unlearning?

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Um, I'd say it kind of ties into that too, is like having a million things on our plate. I think that's both for myself and my husband, we're both achievers, right? We both want to like do do do all the time. Um, we're bad at relaxing. Um, and so I think we're kind of trying to unlearn having to have so much stuff on our plate all the time to feel like we're accomplishing something, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

I think a lot of people can relate to that one. Yeah. Now I know you mentioned the Michael Hyatt book, The Vision Driven Leader. Any other book recommendation around personal growth, the business, maybe efficiency that you would um share with our readers or our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Uh traction by far is my absolute favorite, favorite business book. Um, and I think it's by Gina Wickman, I think. Um ashamed of myself. I think you're right. Yeah, I can't ashamed of myself. I can't even think of the author's name, but traction is by far my favorite business book. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

Okay. And then what's the podcast going to be called?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Um, it's just gonna be called um Elevate. So it is um it's it's it's really pretty simple. Um, but we are gonna be focusing every episode in some way towards systems. Even when we're in we have our guests, we're gonna, you know, try to interview them from the perspective of how systems have implemented, um, been implemented in their business or impacted their business. Um, so for example, we had a guest expert yesterday. She's a graphic designer, right? She's a creative. Um, and you know, systems are not really her jam, but they are a huge piece as to why her business is successful. Um, and so we're always gonna try to have um, you know, some type of system type of episode, uh, you know, something systems-oriented in an episode. And we're not fluffy people, right? We don't really believe in fluff. And so I wanted it to be a podcast where people could listen and take away something from it to go implement in their business. And so every episode is going to have some type of action steps that somebody can take to walk away with. So it's uh gonna be launching August 25th.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

So okay, well, well, I hope that people can, yeah, connect with you on Instagram, keep an eye out for that, the next round of your coat or your course. And then I you have shared so many actionable tidbits here for those of you who are listening. Like, I would love it. I know that Courtney would love it too if you reached out to her and just let her know like what action tip you're taking, what resonated with you. Um, because this was definitely not a lot of fluff when we got into like what you do. You shared some straight golden nuggets. So thank you for that. Thank you for taking the time to be here. And um we will all be wishing, if nothing else, reach out and wish her like happy mom vibes coming coming your way soon. Yeah, we'll be thinking about you with that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Uh well, thank you so much for being here. We'll see you around um Instagram and be tuning into the podcast. Thank you, lady.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

Sounds good. Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Real quick before you go, if you got anything from today's episode, whether it be an aha around the Enneagram type or a part of their story that really resonated with you, reach out and let them know. I know as a podcast guest myself, that means the world to hear from somebody who listened to the episode, got something from it, and then took the time to follow up and let me know. I'm also gonna ask you another favor. If you haven't already, subscribe and leave a review for this podcast. And when you do, because I know that you're busy as a thank you for your time and your effort to do that, I'm gonna send you a type-specific reference guide that's 25 to 30 pages all about your dominant and Neagram type, how it shows up and what to do with it. And then I'm also gonna send you an invitation to a live training we're doing at the end of the month around your CEO style, how your type shows up in leadership and building your business, building your marketing strategies, how to leverage your strengths, blind spots to watch out for. So that's gonna be really fun. If you're listening to this after August 2021, still email me and I'll send you the link to the replay. My email address is hello at Sarah Linco.com. Again, that was hello at Sarah S A R A H L Y N N C O dot com. Thanks for being here, and I'm looking forward to hanging out again soon.