SPEAKER_03 0:00

In episode four, we're doing something a little bit different that I think you're gonna love. You're going to hear from three type eight business owners on what it's like starting a business, going through that whole process, how their team experiences them, having this dominant type eight energy. And as a reminder, our eights, their core driver in life is to be in control, is to be strong and powerful so that they can protect themselves. And so the thing that they're running away from that they fear the most is being controlled, being weak, being harmed, being manipulated, being the victim of some injustice. And that can also include somebody in their inner circle being the victim of injustice. Our AIDS are very protective of their people and missions that they believe in, and then will do almost anything to fight, to guard and defend them. I'm interested to hear what you pick up as we have this conversation with the type eights to see if you see that energy. And they are in pursuit of this intensity and influence and power again, so that they can protect themselves. Their strengths include being very assertive and passionate, determined, natural leaders who are 100% comfortable with being in charge. They're pretty strong-willed, very self-assured, decisive, just kind of exude confidence. They're very straightforward communicators and they are not afraid to go against the grain for what they believe in, and they're not afraid to have hard, uncomfortable conversations. They're like I said, they're very direct. Sometimes where they're going to maybe struggle is that they're so focused on their mission that sometimes they'll dismiss the voices or wants of others in pursuit of their goal. Now, as we go into this, this doesn't mean that every single person on this panel has every single one of these qualities, or that if you have a type 8 energy as your dominant Enneagram type or know somebody that does, that they fit all of these. These are these are common qualities, common tendencies. But again, as a type 8, all of our type 8s are going to have that core desire of wanting to be strong in order to protect themselves and that fear of someone else being in control of them. So without further ado, let's jump in to this panel, this fun conversation with our type 8s. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA podcast. Um, today is going to be a really fun episode because this is my first um Enneagram panel that I've ever hosted, and we are starting right off the gate with our type eights. And today I'm being joined by three business owners, different businesses. So this is going to be really great, regardless if you are in the middle of your business, have an idea, if you're an eight or you're just looking to channel some of that eight energy, or you have no idea what a type eight means, but you want to learn from other entrepreneurs, you're in the right place. So, first up, we have Sarah Thomas, who is an Enneagram coach. And also, and Sarah, I'm going to let you share a little bit more too. Um, but her business is authentic and all-in Enneagram coaching. And then she also has a college prep company called College Collective. So lots of lots of things with Sarah. And then Nadia is joining us from the Louisville, Kentucky area. And she is a professional residential home painter with some artistic designing. And then we have um Ross Wallace, who you might realize is my brother. Um, and he is the owner and founder of Hem Gentlemen's Boutique, which is a um a men's clothing store in the Louisville, Kentucky area, and soon to be a also a women's boutique store. So more on that. So welcome guys. Thanks for being my first panel.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

You're welcome to be here.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Okay, so what I wanted to do was just because yes, we're talking Enneagram, but we're also talking running a business, getting started. And I'd love to hear from each of you a little bit more about your company, where you guys are at right now with it. And then I have a follow-up question with how it got started. So if we'll just kind of um what's the word, like round robin it, um, kind of rapid fire, but share what, share what you want to share um about what you're doing right now in your business and who you're helping specifically. Um Sarah, I'll tap you. We'll go, we'll go Sarah Nadia Ross, ladies first.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Okay, perfect. So hi everybody. Um, so I yes, like Sarah, other Sarah mentioned, I have two companies, one of which is Enneagram coaching, and my target audience there is people pleasers and perfectionists. Um, as an eight, I am neither one of those things. And so I feel like I'm pretty equipped to um help people kind of step out of the, oh gosh, I should do this, people are expecting this mentality. And then um, that's pretty new. I've been that's been doing that for less than a year, but it's been so much fun. Um, and then my second company I've been doing, this is my second year, it's yeah, College Collective. And basically my business partner and I, we both were full-time AP English teachers for about 10 years, and then we just kind of got burnt out, but we wanted to still do something that helped students um prepare for the college process because it's very overwhelming and there's so many hoops to jump through, and every year it's different. And so um she and I both decided to resign from teaching and create this college prep from I don't know, you know, if for everybody from students who have no idea where they want to apply to kids that know they want to apply at 15 schools, this is it, but how do I do it? So that's kind of my spiel.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Nadia, what about you? What do you have going on right now?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Uh so I am a residential commercial painting contractor, and um so I do like multi-family units, I do house flips, uh, also do decorative finishes and heirloom furniture. Um basically anything you need painted, I can do it. So it's always busy during the summer. Uh been a really busy summer so far. And that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

And I just gotta give you a shout out. You've been doing this for 15 plus years. How much now?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Well, I've I've been painting since I was 17, so it is 15 plus years experience, but I've had the business for eight.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Okay, great. Yeah, still that that's a that's a lot. Um, okay, Ross, fill us in on what what are you doing right now? What do you have going on with your business?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Well, right now we're getting ready to expand into women. So we started the company in 2016, um, where one-stop men shop everything from graphic tees to three-piece suits. So we started it because um we wanted a really good like environment for men to stop by. Like, I hate shopping, most men hate shopping, so we have like a really cool atmosphere. It's all about the experience there because you know you can get some of these clothes online, and so we make it like real simple and easy for uh men to shop. And right now we're expanding into women starting September 1st. We'll be doing him and her starting uh September 1st. We're starting at the New Albany location. So it's gonna be then we're gonna go into hopefully uh the paddock shops um in the beginning of next year with him and her, if it if it if we can get the space.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Which for those of us who or for anybody who doesn't know is like a higher end kind of sorry, said that yeah, the east end of global.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Um it's actually a little taste to see if you know we're gonna take him and her everywhere, because the big picture is we want to have him and her everywhere, and that's like an outdoor mall. The paddock shops is an outdoor mall, and so we'll be competing with the big box stores like American Eagle, um, Express, Banana Republic. Um, so we'll be right beside them to see if we can compete with them. And I think we can.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Okay, okay, love that energy. Type eight energy. We've got to get into that. Um, okay, so for those of you um who maybe aren't as familiar with the type eight, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna share kind of what that, you know, not everybody fits this. So I'm not we're unique, complex human beings, but these are some of the common tendencies, some of the stereotypes of our type eight. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna share that and then I'm gonna ask our panel kind of what about that resonates. And then I want to hear from you guys too, how you use some of that to get started. Because sometimes, uh, well, most of the time, that is the hardest part is getting started, taking that leap. So I'd love to hear kind of from the lens of that eight energy that I'm about to share, how you use that, even though you didn't know you were an eight at the time and had no idea what that meant, um, to get going. So for our audience, you know, our our eights, their core desire is to be in control, to be strong and powerful so that nobody else can be in control of them. Um, and they're able to protect them, protect themselves that way. The worst thing in the world on the flip side of that is to be vulnerable for somebody else to have the control over them, um, to be harmed and feel weak in some way. And so our AIDS have the most energy typically out of any Enneagram type. Um, they are assertive, passionate, determined, and natural leaders. Um, I was reading a leadership book the other day, and it said a lot of the CEOs, I you know, I don't know how they know this, who have gotten some sort of Enneagram training, end up being type eight. So leadership comes very natural to them. Um they're very decisive, straightforward, um, direct communicators. And you guys are not our type eights, are not afraid to have hard conversations, not afraid to have conflict. Um, and sometimes you guys might come across as angry when in reality you're just really passionate. So that is does that feel true?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

We hear that all the time that hey, I'm really passionate. I'm not angry right now. I come across really angry, but yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

And Diana has to tell all the employees that as well. Okay, and Diana is Ross's wife, who is She's sitting right across from me, she's checking her head on all the yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, Ross, we'll we'll like go backwards this time and we'll start with you. So, you know, you were shaking your head, you were like, Yes, that's me. I'm passionate. Um, what from that that you just heard resonated most? And then particularly, what do you feel like has helped you get started with the hymn? Because it's it's so easy to be like, oh, you know, wow, like look what they've done, or look at Nadia, eight years, or Sarah having two businesses, you about to open more locations, but there's a beginning to that. So take us to the beginning and how how you made that leap for you. And then Sarah and Nadia, um, I'm coming for you next.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I'm a yeah, I'm a very passionate person. I'm very all in or all out. Um, I was working at a job that I absolutely hated, it had no purpose. I feel like I was on here for a purpose, and I'm like, I'm doing something that I absolutely hate, dread every day. So I woke up one morning and said, I'm gonna quit my job. And and me and my wife Diana talked about it. I'm like, I want to open up my own store, I want to work for me. I've always wanted to work for myself. I didn't know what that was. Um, then I took a job that I absolutely hated, but I'm so glad I had because it took me to where I am today. Um, and I started it because I hated my job and I wanted to be so passionate about something because Diana was so passionate about her job and I was so jealous. So I wanted to open up something that I was really passionate about, and I love clothes. I've always been, you know, my passion is fashion. And um I've always loved that, and I didn't realize how much I loved helping people. Uh, as Sarah knows, three generations of preachers. None of us got the calling of being a preacher, but I got the calling to help people, and I really do enjoy that. I'm very passionate about that's my whole purpose is like helping people feel good about themselves. You look good, you feel good. So that's why, and I'm just like, I'm very, very in love with what I do, and I'm going all in with it.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Yep, I see the passion, the determination.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

And then what was the other question, too? What resonates? I mean, for sure, passionate, because I literally do have to set down all my employees to tell them, like, hey, I might come off a little strong with you guys, even my sales reps. I'm like, hey, I'm off a little strong, I'm just to the point. I don't have time to do all this other stuff. I'm like, this is it. And everybody thinks I'm a lot older than what I am because I'm straight to the point. I'm like, hey, what's up? I don't really do that. Hey, I need this size. Like, what can you do for me? And uh I just have to tell them from the very beginning that's how I am. I didn't realize how I I was until I guess recently. And then Sarah brought it up even to more my attention about how I am.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

And and then I know even like with some of your like you mentioned your sales reps. Um, there's some of us who like will avoid conflicts at all costs.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

No I do not. I let them know if I'm not if they know if I'm unhappy for sure. Because I'm like, hey, you're you're costing me money, you're costing me this. Why is this happening? I will have those conversations two, three, four times a day. Like we need to, we need to stop you know doing other stuff and we need to get this done. Like we need to get this done today. And I was just on the phone with Verizon because I was having conflict with them. I I got this resolved today because I'm like, I don't have time to deal with this, let's get this done today. And it's always been, and I didn't realize that's a type eight, but yeah, I I'm not afraid to do conflict um head on for sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Okay, so um we'll come we'll come back to kind of maybe some of us who don't have that dominate eight, but maybe how to harness some channel some of that eight energy when needed. But Nadia, what about you? Um, what from that list really resonates and what have you found from that list has been helpful as you have started your own business?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah, well, I totally agree with uh Ross. Time is money, and I feel like my personality outside of work is I'm a lot more considerate, maybe overly considerate of people. But when it comes to my job, it's almost nice that I really get to be an eight and I get to be that assertive person. And it doesn't feel as rude because uh, you know, I'm I'm trying to get my day done with so I can finish this job so I can get paid. Um, so I think that's a very big like eight quality from what I can see. And as far as like starting the business, um, I've just always been someone who doesn't really question taking a risk. Um, I think some some people are very calculated in starting their businesses. I really wasn't, I did not have a plan. I just had painted for a number of years and I didn't like that on the painting cruise, um you kind of get designated as one thing, like you're the person who paints trim, or you're the person who does the prep work. And I, you know, even at that age, I was like early 20s, I kept looking around like I can do all of this. And I would just get the measly job because I was a girl and younger whatever. So once once I found out um, you know, the money you can make from painting on your own, and that I could do it, um, then I was just hooked. I didn't have to go back and work on this painting crews and you know, do prep all day. Um so really from there it was just about forming relationships and building that confidence, which you know, you're still doing every day. We're all still doing.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Well, and just to just for those of you who might think, oh, maybe I'm a type eight, you know, that big picture thinking, sometimes getting um wrapped up in the details can be like a a downer for the eights because they're so good at seeing the big picture. So that totally is in line with that eight energy and um can help you move forward because yes, details are needed, but at the same time, sometimes that perfectionist, like the over planning, holds us back and keeps us analysis paralysis. So it is just kind of that that teetering, that balance of channeling, you know, the the right energy at the right time. So um, okay, Sarah, what about what about that the eight qualities resonate with you? And how did you get started with both of yours?

SPEAKER_02 17:58

So I feel like I'm like the truest eight that ever was an eight, because there hasn't been a single thing you said that I thought, it's not really me. Like every single bit of that is absolutely true. And actually, Nadia, when you said, you know, you feel like you get to be the most eight at your job, I thought to myself, man, if I knew how to turn this off, that would probably serve me really well in life. But like I just I I can't. So maybe I should practice. Like, and we need to get together later and you can tell me, teach me your ways. But um for me, with with my so I left teaching, that was my first kind of the first step. And honestly, I was kind of ready to leave several years before I actually did, but I wasn't in the financial position to be able to do so. Um, my husband, he actually was he used to be a a minister, a pastor, and he uh kind of felt a calling elsewhere, and so he actually went to law school, which was really great for him, but that meant we were we were doing everything on just a teacher's salary. So I couldn't leave when I wanted to, but that actually ended up working out really well because I probably would have ended up leaping a little too soon just to get away from teaching, and I loved it. I just got really burnt out and it started becoming more about politics and less about being able to like empower kids, you know. And so it it kind of the timing forced me to be a little more patient than I would have liked. But um yeah, I just knew I want to keep building relationships with students, I want them to understand like how important their voices are, and that people don't know what you sound like or what you think unless you tell them and you have like worthy things to say, and then that just dovetailed really nicely into the Enneagram because I believed everything I just said about everyone, not just students. And so it was kind of a nice marriage of the things I was passionate about, getting to serve others in completely different ways.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Okay, I got a question for for you guys now. And Sarah, you just made me think of something. So there's some of us in life that, you know, other people's opinions can really hold us back and getting visible and putting yourself out there and saying, you know, hey, I'm gonna open this, I'm gonna take a risk, I'm gonna do something out of the ordinary and I'm gonna be judged for it. And I'm probably gonna fail, and I'm probably gonna fail in front of others. Um and sometimes that can hold us back, you know, our type threes, um, that that might be something that really consume us. But for the eights, um, you know, that's not as big of a concern because you guys are so focused on the future, going fast, going far. Um, but I would just be curious if that um if there was any fear in starting and what other people thought um failing, um, any anything along those lines that that could have prevented you, but but you were able to move through and anything that you did to help you with your with your mindset um to help you not let get not let yourself get caught up in that. Sarah, I see your head shaken, so I'm gonna um we'll go backwards again. I'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Okay, so there wasn't, I didn't feel like it was much of a risk going from the classroom to college uh consulting because second semester, you know, I taught juniors and seniors. So second semester seniors, all I want to talk about is what their next chapter of life looks like, and there's so much stress with that. And so it didn't feel as much of a risk there, especially because I knew for the first couple years after I left the classroom, my name would still be like somewhat recognized. So I just knew I had to really like market the crap out of it so that people like the word of mouth would spread before people were like, Yeah, Sarah Who? Like, I don't know who that is. Um, the Enneagram coaching, I will say, I don't know if fear was part of it, but I do remember I was really careful. With who I told first that I was considering doing coaching because some people have just weird/slash different ideas about the Enneagram being like, you know, woo-woo, and just like, oh, what even is that's just so weird? And so I kind of gave myself like practice rounds with people who I knew would be really supportive and just like excited for me. And that made it easier, I guess, to like put into it. It was never about am I gonna do it or not? It was more about how do I put this in a way that I don't feel like I have to explain myself because I don't owe that to anybody, which I know that's also super eight energy. So I'm gonna stop talking.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Love it, love it, love it. Ross, what about what about you? What fear, if any, um, did you have kind of putting yourself out there and saying, Oh, I'm I'm starting my own business. I'm I'm physically opening a brick and mortar business too, which can sometimes even come with more risk and potentially more fear. But where how did how did you handle that?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Maybe getting the word out there. Um, I know I just never wanted to go back to all these like pointless jobs. So probably my biggest fear, probably still just that I wake up every day, just feel like I need to kill it because I do not want to. That's my biggest fear, is it's like something happening probably and having to go back to this like endless job. And so every day I'm like, all right, what do I gotta do to kill it today? Um, that's probably my biggest fear. I wake up every morning, seriously. I'm just like, anything can happen. So I need to, they're gonna forget about me, or you know, I'm not gonna have a good day. Uh, you know, so I just like put everything into that day to make sure I, you know, we do the emails, we do everything. I'm just like always busting it, trying to figure out like what next? What can I how can I make so much money that I never have to, you know, go back to any of these jobs again?

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yeah, yeah. Sarah just said she loved what can I do to kill it today. Um, and and um I, you know, I think that's interesting and very type A energy to not necessarily be afraid of what others think um of putting yourself out there, but being afraid of having to go back and have somebody else have control, losing that autonomy, um, which is that that core foundation for AIDS. Um anything, anything um around like actually putting yourself out there. So like day one, saying, hey, I'm opening a business. Um, any and any advice maybe too for somebody else thinking about starting, um, but have that fear of like other people's opinions.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Just do it. Like I you don't care about other people's opinions, just do it because you're unhappy and there's gonna be a bajillion roadblocks. Like you're like, oh my gosh, this is gonna stop me today. Just push through it, just go through it. That's probably the biggest advice I would tell anybody. I mean, you're gonna have roadblocks, you're gonna have like, I don't know how to do this, but just do it anyway and fail, then do it a different way next time. I mean, that's the best way I can explain it because so many people's like come approach like, how do you do it? I'm like, just do it. That's just do it. Um, and uh, I say that's the biggest thing because people's like, oh, I want to, but this, you know, I'm like, well, that's the littlest thing. Just do it anyway, you know. And it's I feel like lots of people are just scared to start up, and it's like maybe it took me hating my job so much. Um, just like, I'm just gonna do it. I had I've never owned a business before, I've never owned a men's clothing store. I didn't know how it was gonna be, but I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna put 100% into it. And there's a lot of roadblocks that came up. Like, you know, we started, uh, we didn't realize you have to buy six months in advance um for clothing. So I'm like, instead of just waiting another six months, we try to get as much product in in two months, and we didn't have a full store to begin with, but just do it. I mean, just go ahead and open.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Um, you know what? I just I did this like kind of funny series a couple of weeks ago about different company slogans based on type and like Jeep was like, you know, type seven, go anywhere. And the the the company energy for the eight was the Nike, just do it. So I'm I'm smiling here at Ross. Yeah. Um, Nadia, what about you? What about you and just the fear of getting started of other people's opinions? Um, anything to add to what Sarah and um Ross said or and to share about your own experience?

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Well, once you get past the fear of getting started and you actually start, uh then you have this whole other set of things to deal with, which is everyone's opinion of what you're doing. And suddenly everyone's an expert on running a business and they have ideas about how you should be doing things, but they like don't even do anything within your field and don't own a business themselves. So, you know, it's just they want to be part of it and contribute ideas. Um, but it's very, you know, if if you start listening to people like you should do this, you you should brand yourself in this way, you're just gonna be yanked around. And I think as a business owner and especially starting off, just being intentional about, you know, your purpose and your clientele. And if you don't know what your clientele is up front, just uh really focusing on narrowing that down um over the months or over the years, or you know, sitting down with a list and asking yourself what you're good at in your in your chosen field. I can't be, you know, the best industrial painter and epoxy flooring person. Uh so mainly, you know, I do a lot of uh high-end residential jobs, and that's just kind of where I landed that and uh cabinets. So there's a lot to learn uh as a business owner, and those were some hurdles I went through.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

You never stop learning.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Right, every day. It's the fun in it.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Um all right, I'm gonna ask you guys maybe maybe a little bit of an uncomfortable question, but um, and you don't have to answer. Um, you may not have anything, but if you do, I would I would love to hear it. So sometimes on on the low side, um, you know, as a humans, like Naughty and Ross just said, we are always, we are always growing. Um, but to every, you know, great thing about us, there's the they say, you know, our greatest strength can also be our greatest weakness. And sometimes for AIDS, that gets expressed as maybe being a little harsh, maybe blunt, a little overly aggressive, um, feel the need to control, be controlling. Um, have you guys seen that show up in your life or in your work? And how have you maybe been working or what advice have you picked up along the way to help you kind of grow through that and anybody else who might, you know, sometimes struggle with with some of those um, I guess they call them like the shadow sides.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Well, I'll go first. Just as eights, I think we uh tend to need to remember to let other people have the floor. Um, so you know, we always know what we think, we always see what needs to be done. And I like in my job, I work with under other contractors, I'm in a referral group. It's really hard for us to step back and let people give their perspective of what's going on in a situation, or even just help us. So I think that's kind of the shadow side of this really great integram type is that there's just always a lot to learn from others. And sometimes we we have to step back and let that happen.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah. Yeah, we're a lots of times we're the bottleneck of our own companies because we want to be in control so much um that we just bottleneck the companies because we don't want to hear other people's uh views. It took me uh going to Tony Robbins to really figure that out because I'm like, why am I not growing? Because you know, I can do it all. I don't need nobody else. I can do it, I can be 100% wear all these hats. And it took him being like, No, you need to, you know, you need to, you know, give the control away. And because I'm bottlenecking the company for the longest time, I wasn't growing because I was stubborn enough. I'm like, no one's gonna do it like me, no one will. And that's the fact. It was like, if someone can find like a 75% you, you're doing good, and um, so that's why it was with me growing the company, I can't be everywhere, so I just need to have 75% of what I can can can do with the company, and I'm okay with that, or getting okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah, I both what Ross and Nadia said, it all resonates so much with me as well. Um, I think part of the reason that I find myself kind of getting in my own way too, and I really like Ross how you put that bottleneck, like being being reason that you can't grow. Um, I think part of that for AIDS is because we're in the body center. And so we just it's all gut instinct. So if someone asks me to explain a decision that I made, like just immediately, I I can't necessarily explain it aside from saying it just felt like it, like it was just the right thing to do. I just knew it in my body. And because it's such an immediate thing, and usually for me at least, I guess I shouldn't speak on behalf of all eights, but for me, like my gut instinct has never led me astray. And so sometimes that I use that almost as a cop-out, like, well, I trust myself and I trust my body. So obviously, like what the insides of me say is way more important than these jabronies over here. Like, who knows what they're gonna say? Like, they don't even care as much as I do. I care the most, like, which is not healthy and very shadowy. Um but yeah, learning to delegate has been a really big thing, especially and and exactly Ross, like you were saying, no one is gonna do it like I would do it. But that's kind of the point, right? So find someone that you can work with who is willing to take on tasks that aren't necessarily my strength. I cannot do it all, even though it's like I whisper that to myself in the mirror every day, but I really can't, you know?

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Well, and then on the high side, I mean, we've talked a lot about the high side of eights, but also part of that is inspiring others with your dedication and determination and passion. And um you're actually type eights can be wonderful leaders for a lot of reasons, um, but also wonderful leaders to individuals, whether it's the team, your clients, your customers, um, because you have that energy that you want to protect yourself, but you're you're also there to protect and care for your team. And so you end up being really, really great mentors. And for those of us who are maybe just getting started or we're at that point where we're like, oh man, I'm I might be ready to hire somebody, whether it's like a virtual assistant a few hours a week or a full-time employee or part-time. Um, I would love to hear from each of you just some things that you look at when it comes to either what type of person you hire. And like Sarah said, it might just be like, you just know. Um, but anything that you look for when you hire somebody, and then um anything that you any any systems or um uh processes that you do to kind of help either on board or set those individuals up for success, kind of continuing that that idea of like mentoring, protecting your team or or your customers.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Ross, do you want to go first? I would say um, well, I have a hard time once you're in my circle, you're in my circle, and I care so much about you, and I will do anything I can for you. But it's just like that gut instinct at the very beginning. I'm like, you know, I'm like, he's good or he's not. Um, and but then once they're in though, and like I will go to bat with them, I will do whatever I can because my employees say that about me. Because like some of the traits you said, like uh about the A, I was like, no, I do care about what they think of me, but it's like that circle um with my employees. Some people I was like, I don't care what they think about me, but it's like my employees, I'm like, I will do anything for them. Um, you know, when I sit down with them, and I feel like we go over everything, they're like, man, you're the best boss. I just love having you. Because I feel like sometimes, you know, I told you like I can be crazy or not crazy, but like um a little bit everywhere and passionate, but they know that and they see it once they are in my circle. I feel like um I really do get along with them really great. And what was the other question? Was there another one too? Or no?

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Um, I mean, is there anything that you anything that anybody who's thinking about hiring somebody or they have somebody on their team and they're wanting to, you know, take better care of them or help them grow or like be that mentor who maybe don't have just that natural eight energy that you're talking about? Is are there any things that you do to you know you know set your team up for success, the individuals or the team, you know, whether it's like company retreats or you know, oh yeah, we always have um you know team outings uh once a month.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

We if we hit goals, you know, we have our team outings. Uh we I feel like it's always you have to work, so you know, might as well be fun because you know, always hate another job. So I wanted to make it fun. So we always do something like a group outing at least once a month. We take them out to eat. Uh, we went to like rec bar, it's like a little game place, and I feel like that was the most fun because we don't talk about work, we don't do anything. This is not about work, this is just about team bonding. And I feel like yeah, definitely take them out and get them outside of the work and really get to know them because I feel like you get to know people a lot more when you step foot outside the work area and really have that team bonding because you get to know that person, what's going on? Like, how's your kids doing? How's you know, how's everything going on? You know, what's and I feel like that's the biggest thing for me is having that team bonding experience outside of work.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Nadia, what about you? Are there things that like what type of things do you look for? Um any advice for anybody thinking about growing their team or you know, setting their them up for um um more success.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Well, as eights, I think we're we're big doers, we're big action people. And uh I just think that you do lead by example. Um, I have a really hard time letting go of the reins, and I don't do it. I actually, you know, just put out an ad uh saying that you know I wanted to hire some people. And you know, to me, no one measures up. And that's just that's just the personality, they're not gonna work as hard, yada yada. But there are ways to, you know, lead employees, and I think that is is just strictly by your example, and also in the same way that you run your company in a way that it doesn't get overwhelming for you and you keep it efficient. I think delegating tasks to people at their skill set is uh is very important. Um, so I would probably start someone from you know the very bottom level of painting and uh and just teach them all I know instead of getting someone more experienced. And that's kind of the control aspect too, is wanting them to do things in the way that I've found most efficient.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

So yeah, that's it. Yeah, I I see that that eight energy. Um and then this Sarah, I I know yours, you know, like you and I have the the online business, so maybe we're we're we don't have a team locally to take out, but anything when it comes to having a feeling of like who should I work with, who should I take on as clients, and then how do I set them up for success? Um anything on that?

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah, absolutely. So I don't have employees, um, but like you said, but I was thinking just about mentorship in general. And I guess for my college consulting, you know, when I was trying to figure out it would be way more fun to do this with someone else. And so when I was choosing my like co-founder, I knew it needed to be somebody who lined up with my like uh philosophy. Um, but that's different. I guess you're asking about people maybe that might be work beneath you. So I guess the most important thing was meeting people where they are. I know some people who maybe you know aren't eights might be really good at delegating things. And sometimes it's because they've said yes to too much. And so then they just start like offloading to other people because they're overwhelmed. And you know, we're we're all human. We can only our capacity is only so big. Um, and but what ends up happening when it's not intentionally doled out is that you end up just stressing out all the people beneath you. Um, and maybe just to lighten your own load, you give someone a task that makes you feel better because you don't have it on your plate anymore, but it may not be in their wheelhouse. And so really getting to know what people's strengths and passions are. And that kind of also ties in with something Ross was saying about um how you know your employees, you don't talk about work on your outings. And I think that made me think of, yeah, I always feel like it's so easy to mentor someone when you know what they actually care about and what their interests are. So don't just think of them as employees, but also just human beings that have lives outside of your, you know, your office. So what do they care about? And how can you help them like funnel their passion in a way that serves both of you?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

I would say, yeah, listening. I feel like that's definitely a huge thing. Like listen to what they have to say is huge. Um, I feel like it's definitely changed my way of thinking too. It's like, what do you think? You know, I try to always get them about like, what do you think? And because I feel like if if it comes, if they come up with it, or if I maybe set them up for maybe what even what I want them to say, that it's it's them saying it out of their mouth. And I feel like it means more to them, and they I feel like they take pride into that.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

It's all about buy-in. Yeah, gotta get them to buy in and take account of like ownership. So if it's something that they're interested in, then it's piece of cake.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah, I can maybe have to steer them. I'm like, I want them to say this, but I want them to say it. So but yeah, later concludes.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Okay, so I'm I have this is the the second to last question. The last question I'm gonna ask you guys for a business book recommendation or personal development book that you would recommend. Um, but before I do that, I want to ask you one more thing. Um, so this and this ties in perfectly to what Ross and Sarah were just talking about. So um for those of you who aren't very familiar with the Enneagram, each type also has a number that they go to in growth and a number that they go to in stress. And so for AIDS, their growth number is twos, where they take on some of that. I mean, AIDS are big-hearted people, um, especially when they're living their best life over here in their two arrow, allowing to have, allowing themselves to have that compassion and empathy and appreciation and be more open and um even emotionally vulnerable, you know, caring for somebody else is ultimately vulnerable. Um, and then, you know, the the this the on the bad days, maybe they're a little bit more stubborn, taking on some of that five energy, um, repress emotions, might be a little bit more withdrawn, um, become a little secretive, fearful. Um so, you know, but but everybody, we were talking about the shadow side and the good things, and and we all have that. And um, I would love to hear from you guys kind of as we start to close this out. Um, like Ross said earlier, we're always you guys, we're always learning, we're always growing, we we make mistakes, we, you know, we have this, these shadow sides. What are the things that you guys do? Um, whether it's attending a Tony Robbins, you know, event or reading every day or whatever it is, but what are the things that you guys do to take care of yourself, but also to take care of yourself as the leader of your company so that you do continue um to grow in the way that that aligns with your goals and and where you want to go. Um Nadia, do you want to do you want to start?

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Um, yes, I'm like the queen of self-care. I do a lot of it. Um, first of all, the book I would suggest is called Lean In by Cheryl Sandberg. Um, the subtitle of that is Women Work and the Will to Lead. It's a great book. Um, as far as self-care, my job is very physically demanding. Uh, I'm absolutely beat when I get home because I'm owner operator. I do all the painting myself. And usually I'm doing about a house per week. So it's a lot. Um, so I do yoga probably uh three times a week right now at Inner Warrior, which is a donation-based yoga studio here uh in Louisville. Um I take walks, I trail run, um I like to uh cook, so I try out a lot of new recipes. Um and I do try to educate myself. You know, if I find a good book like Lean In, uh usually there's two or three books mentioned in there that I'll uh buy as well. So just balance, balance is a big thing for business owners. And uh we all have to find it in our own way.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Yeah, yeah. Making it sure it's it's sustainable and you know, you're not getting burnt out. Um, Sarah, what about you? How do you take care of yourself as a as a human being and then also as a um as a business owner?

SPEAKER_02 43:54

I would have to say that that is something that I'm still kind of. Learning to do. And part of it, I think it's kind of a blessing and a curse, right? The fact that what I get to do every day, I love a lot. And so even though I'm having a great time while I'm preparing and putting stuff together and then physically like actually meeting with people, it doesn't necessarily mean that I should be on Canva at 10 p.m. while I'm in bed, like designing just another graphic or, you know, and it's fun to me, but also it's so hard for me to remember like you, this is not sustainable at this pace. And so having to, I wrote on my mirror, um, like lay it all down because like that's the that's like the last thing I see when I'm brushing my teeth before I go to bed. Like just okay, set it to the side, or even you know, as I pass the bathroom throughout the day, like be intention, just as intentional as you are in your work as you are taking care of yourself as a person. And so, yeah, kind of like Nadia, I do um like physical activity is a way. And I found that if I don't do it in the morning, I won't do it. Uh so I have to, so I go to like a boot camp three times a week in the mornings and also take walks. We have uh my husband and I have three dogs, so that someone's always willing to go on a walk if I if I want to get if I want to take them. So, and drinking a lot of water, I'm oh too much coffee and Dr. Pepper. So water is so good too.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Well, and just to add on to what Sarah and Nadia both mentioned, and then Ross, I'm coming to you. Um, I was listening to another eight type eight panel a few weeks ago, and everybody on the panel said that sitting still was actually the most tiresome and hard thing. And so the idea of relaxing does not include sitting on the couch and watching Netflix. It's going to the ocean and surfing or trail running, like Noddy was saying, or walking the dogs. It sounds like Sarah was talking about. So, you know, I love the Enneagram so much for so many reasons, but it's just a reminder that there is absolutely no one way. Because a lot of times, you know, we hear like the self-care, like relax, sit still, put your feet up, Netflix, you know, it's okay. And um it's a it's also okay to relax in in physical activity and in non-traditional relaxing ways. So I'm so glad you guys both brought that up. Ross, what about what about you? How do you take care of yourself as a person and then as the leader of your company?

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Um, I would for sure say, yeah, when we go on vacations, we I just got back from a week's long vacation instead of sitting on the beach and relaxing and like tanning. Um, we we hiked over like 60 miles. Uh, that's my relaxing. Um, I feel like maybe I got this from my dad too. Like we my me, my dad for sure cannot sit still. That's that's I hate that. Um, sitting still just drives me nuts. And so our vacations is like doing like physical activity. Yeah, I love we went to like five national parks in Utah. It was a blast. And that was like that's my therapy. Um, because I really do not go to the doctor. I don't even have a really a primary care doctor. I don't even do that. Like my care is just like going hiking. I mean, um, and taking that's how I take care of myself. Then I would say investing in yourself is huge for me. I have seen myself grow and then having an awesome partner. Um, I was lucky enough to have you know an awesome wife that we are both business owners and we feed off each other so much. So we do, we never turn it off, even at home, um, on date nights, whatever. Uh, we are talking about business, like what's next. And I feel like that's been a huge game changer. Then we both invest in ourselves, and we've both seen a huge change in our companies once you have invested in yourself.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

I see that too.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

The more money you need to invest in yourself. So start small, so not everybody can go to like a Tony Robbins at the very beginning. I could in the first three or four years, but then like I built up to that, and I feel like investing yourself is huge. And the more money you do, the more money you need to invest in yourself. That's yeah, it's huge for you and your company.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

And that probably feels like a really big risk, you know. Like, even for sorry, I won't speak for you, but I'm thinking for people who aren't eights, thinking like, well, but this is my hard-earned money. Like, shouldn't I be doing something else and just saving it? But no, like the going back to always learning and like, no, go enrich and like make yourself better so that you can continue to grow. I love that. I'm writing that down for sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Because it was it was huge. I mean, I I don't know, it was like five, six, seven thousand dollars. I'm like, that I could we could have taken, sorry, it was yeah, it was ten thousand. She was like, Yeah, it was ten thousand dollars um to invest in Tony Robbins each. Um, and it was a huge thing that we wanted to do. That was a goal the year before. So, like, what can we do to put this money aside? And we we reached it and we're like, let's do it. And it was like still the best investment I've ever done because we've gotten so much more. Because he will show you you will make that up plus some if you invest in yourself. Yes, you're spending it now, but you will make that up because you will be able to delegate. And that was a huge thing with me that I took away because I'm like, I don't need nobody, I got this all by myself. And no, you don't need to do that. So yeah, definitely invest in yourself. Then the book, I would say shoe dog by Phil Knight. Um I feel like there's so many failures that he has taken, and it's okay to have failures. Um, and just keep on pushing through. Um, and I mean you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna hit a home run right off the bat. Just I mean, he failed multiple times, and it's okay. Just keep on going through, just keep on pushing through.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

I I forgot my book. Can I say one?

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Yeah, I was I was coming back to you, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Okay, well, so mine, my book actually, it's not a business book because those books, oh, and I I shouldn't say this, I'm gonna do it. I they don't interest me, but I think it's partially because I just haven't found ones that I enjoy. Um, so I'm not gonna say they don't interest me. I have not yet found one. So hopefully, in the two recommendations that were given, I'll have some favorites. But the one that I do want to recommend, anyways, um, it's one that I, Sarah, you've probably seen it all over my like Instagram and stuff, but it's called Untamed by Glennon Doyle. Um, she's a boss. Basically, it's the perfect book for anybody who it's so it's nonfiction, it's essentially a book about a woman who Glenn, um, living her whole life to kind of please people and meet others' expectations. It's all about her kind of unlearning that and deconstructing no, no, like I have my own ideas and they deserve to bubble to the surface. And some people aren't gonna like that, and that's okay. And just kind of stepping into who you actually are and not letting the fear of what people who used to know you really well and used to like you and maybe benefited from you always saying yes to them and doing what they wanted, they may fall away and that's okay. So I feel like for my people pleasers and perfectionists, they really enjoy that. Untamed checking out.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

I haven't read that one, but I've also heard amazing things about it. Um okay, Ross left us with some good takeaways, investing in yourself, kind of just do it. Sarah, you just shared some really good things that resonate with you from Glennon. Nadia, I'm gonna have you sign us off here. Any last words, no pressure, but any last words of advice um about you know anybody who's thinking about starting or wanting to grow, how, how, what should we think about? Any any any last words here?

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Yeah, well, it's uh, you know, wonderful to be successful and grow your business. But at the end of the day, you are just a human uh having a life experience here, and that's what it's all about. We work so that we can have freedom and opportunity. So uh, you know, I think it's really important to remember that at any stage of being a business owner. Take that vacation, even if it sounds like it's too much money, and completely unplug because uh, you know, your brain and your body need that rest. And that's what we're working for in the first place is to get to do cool things, get to do things we're passionate about. Not everyone wants to work all the time. Maybe Ross does, but but we all, you know, do those things that we enjoy, and and we can do those things because we're working so hard. So that's my bit of advice.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

And I would say one last thing too. It's okay to outgrow your old friends, your high school friends, or whoever you met in your previous life. Um, I've noticed that that was a big thing for me to like let go. Like they've just outgrown them. I'm I'm a whole different person than I was five years ago. Then I will be a whole different more person five years from now. I mean, I just keep on growing, and it's and it's okay to let go. I would say, because I know there's lots of things like, oh, look at them starting their own business. Like, who do they think they are? You know, and like instead of they're jealous. And I feel like outgrowing people is okay, and just surrounding yourself with the best people possible that will make you better. Like it's always having that circle of like, you know, we've surrounded ourselves with like another other business uh minded people. And I feel like that has helped me out so much. It's fun having a conversation about like, oh, how do you do this? So yeah, how do you work on that? And it's I suppose like surrounding yourself with people um like you, you know, that want to grow is a huge thing, but I would I would say it's helped me out a lot.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

And isn't that the point? Like, isn't that the point of being a person like to grow? Like, I I have some friends that I've known since I was, you know, it in second grade, but there's only two of them, and they've championed every stage of my growth. Everybody else who hasn't let it burn.

unknown 54:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

There's that, I just was talking about this today. Like, there's that whole saying it's like, oh, who does he think he is getting too big for his britches? And it's like, well, maybe it's time to put on some new pants. Get some new pants.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

And they put their fears in you too. I don't like that too. That's a huge thing too. People talk about like, oh, you know, they're worried about like, oh, you shouldn't do this or you can't. They're saying their fears into you. And I feel like just kind of let that go.

SPEAKER_04 54:24

Rejecting.

unknown 54:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Projecting, yeah. I got it. I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Um, this has been really, really helpful, I think, for those people who you know want to learn more about their eight-ness, want to learn more about how to channel that, and then just overall kind of you know, insight into the mind of various different kinds of business owners who can always learn, like Ross was saying just a minute ago, surrounding yourself with people who are going in the direction where you want to go. Um, before we sign off, I want to know where we can find each of you and you know, um, any anything that we should know about where where do you hang out? Where can people either say, hey, love this episode, or hey, I want to, I need, I need something from you. Ross, where where are you hanging out?

SPEAKER_00 55:11

I'm hanging out in 313 Pearl Street, New Albany, Indiana. Um, yeah, Hem Gentleman's Boutique Um and Instagram, Facebook, Hem Jones Boutique on Instagram and Hem Jun Zotique on Facebook. Um, you can email me at Ross.wallace at HemGB.com. Um, yeah, uh the phone number too, you can Google uh Hem Jones Boutique. I'm there too. I got it all.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Oh, I love it. Nadia, where are you hanging out? Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Pretty much everything is under the business name. Uh actually everything is opulent milieu LLC. If you Google that, it is the first thing that will pop up. It's that's the benefit of having a unique name. Um, I'm always uh hanging out and working in the East End. I don't have a brick and mortar office, so my job location changes every day.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

And Sarah, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 56:07

So for me, um, yeah, I have my company name is authentic and all in. And so uh on Instagram, it's authentic and all in. And then um, yeah, I don't have brick and mortar either. So um my website is authentic and all in enneagram.com.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

You don't want to give us your phone number too? No, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

I love boundaries. No phone number for you.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Oh, you guys, this was awesome. I so appreciate it. Um, I hope the those of you who are listening will reach out, connect with them on Instagram, whether you're in Louisville and need a paint job or not. Let them know what you learned from this, what you're taking away, what what a energy you're gonna be channeling in your own life and and business from this interview. Um and I appreciate you guys for being here. And uh I'm gonna I'm gonna be channeling some of that just do it a energy myself. Um so I appreciate you guys, and uh, I will be, I'm sure, seeing you around social media.

unknown 57:10

Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

Thanks guys.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

Thank you. See ya. Real quick before you go, if you got anything from today's episode, whether it be an aha around the Enneagram type or a part of their story that really resonated with you, reach out and let them know. I know as a podcast guest myself, that means the world to hear from somebody who listened to the episode, got something from it, and then took the time to follow up and let me know. I'm also gonna ask you another favor. If you haven't already, subscribe and leave a review for this podcast. And when you do, because I know that you're busy as a thank you for your time and your effort to do that, I'm gonna send you a type-specific reference guide that's 25 to 30 pages all about your dominant Enneagram type, how it shows up and what to do with it. And then I'm also gonna send you an invitation to a live training we're doing at the end of the month around your CEO style, how your type shows up in leadership and building your business, building your marketing strategies, how to leverage your strengths, blind spots to watch out for. So that's gonna be really fun. If you're listening to this after August 2021, still email me and I'll send you the link to the replay. My email address is hello at Sarah Lyn Co.com. Again, that was hello at Sarah S A R A H L Y N N C O dot com. Thanks for being here, and I'm looking forward to hanging out again soon.