SPEAKER_00 0:00

It is always so much fun to be able to connect with and learn from other Enneagram experts, other Enneagram enthusiasts. And I love getting to connect with them myself. And I absolutely love getting to bring those conversations, those people, those resources to you here on the podcast. And today we have the ginormous honor of getting to hear from Molly and Becca, um, co-creators, co-founders of the Enneagram magazine, to learn about their unique insight and experience with the Enneagram, what it has meant to their life, how they use it, how the benefits that they see coming from it, as well as hearing their story of how they started a magazine. And I had reached out to them and asked if they would be willing to share their story because, you know, there's all kinds of ways that we can get visible with our ideas and our mission and how we want to help. And a lot of times we just think of maybe the same two or three things, maybe start a podcast, start have a course, start a Facebook group, whatever it might be. And there's nothing wrong with those things. I have those things, right? Um, but I like sometimes like these out-of-the-box type of channels to share content just in a different way that might speak to somebody to might be a more aligned way to share their message. And then I also wanted to bring them, um, bring their experience and expertise with the Enneagram to you just to hear from somebody other than me about the Enneagram. And so Molly is a type nine, Becca is a type four. They share what that experience is like and they share it in such a beautiful, calming way. Like I was so zinned out getting to listen to them during the actual recording of this podcast. And so I can't wait for you just to hear, hear what they say and just experience their energy. And I do hope that you will check out the Enneagram magazine. We had mentioned at the end of this episode that issue nine, the wonder issue, is coming out. I'm holding issue seven, the health issue, in my hand right now. It is gorgeous. Thick pages, beautifully designed pages with pretty photos and fonts and inspiring stories. The cover feels like the cover of a book. This issue actually has stayed on my bookshelf with my other Enneagram resources. It is unlike any magazine you have held before. So I do hope that you will check them out, support them. Um, I know that we have Enneagram enthusiasts on on as our listeners. And so this is going to fit right into that interest that you have and just be another way to learn more about the Enneagram and really yourself and others. So without further ado, I bring to you this interview with Molly and Becca from Enneagram magazine. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gift and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Welcome back to another episode of the Enneagram MBA podcast. Today is an extra fun one, and I feel like I always say that, but it's extra fun because we actually have two guests on today. Um we have Becca and Molly, who are the founders of the co-creators of the Enneagram magazine. And so we're gonna get into a little bit about what is inside the Enneagram magazine, how how they started the um how they had the idea and how they got started with a magazine because I think it's so fun. And I actually have one right next to me. I have the um type or issue seven, the health issue. I won this in a giveaway, by the way. I forgot to tell you guys that. Yeah. So fun. Um, so we'll we'll jump into that in a little bit. And then we're also going to hear about their own personal Enneagram types and their own journey. So welcome to the show, Becca and Molly. Thank you for having us to be here.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

And then um, we will just say, because we were just talking before we hit record, like this is a very casual podcast. Um, I mean, I always say like if Joe Rogan can get up and go to the bathroom during his podcast, we can just do whatever we want on ours. So um Molly has an um, I think Becca said seven weeks old guest also with us. So she might want to chime in. And if so, that's just fine, but that's what you're hearing. Um, so I would love to hear from you guys. I always kind of start off with, I know you guys had mentioned Molly, you're you I most identify with the type nine and Becca a type four. Um, Becca, would you be willing to start and share like what resonates most with you as a four? And like what was the thing that was like, oh my gosh, yep, this is me.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah. And it's really interesting. My typing journey was a very interesting one in the sense, and I think everyone's typing journey is interesting, right? Like what starts to come out and jump out and resonate, or what you cringe at, or what brings you to tears. But for me, so many people were like, you're a two, you're totally a two. This is when we didn't really have a lot of um healthy Enneagram etiquette or protocol around us. It was just kind of like this cool new tool that we're just like typing people all over the place and just kind of using it kind of casually in in one regard. And I for some reason that just didn't hit me, right? And now I'm like, oh, that means I was unhealthy, right? Now that I like look back and I know I'm like, great. Um, but I think I was so people oriented, I was so sensitive to other people's needs. That's part of my upbringing story. Some of my pain from my story is that too. I learned to be sensitive out of protection, even. Um, but I think when I started really diving into each number and learning the descriptions, there's something around the fore in the sense of feeling um separate from and really kind of having an ache of belonging and always wanting to cultivate a sense of belonging around me. I was always rallying people or bringing in the new person or seeing the person across the room and trying to connect them with people. And so there was something around that that was a deep ache within me for someone to notice me and bring me in and help me feel belong, like that I had a sense of belonging, was definitely something that resonated deep and was like, oh, I'm gonna need to spend some more time there and think about that. So, but I still hold my type loosely, even all these years later. I still am always open to the idea that there could be another type wanting to, you know, I'm still just wanting to keep that open, teachable spirit about me.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I love that. And and the typing process or just that kind of discovery process is so helpful, regardless like how long it takes you. I I have found for my own personal journey, it was just like asking the questions and like reflecting on things and um just questions that I had never asked before. And what's interesting is that I also thought I was a two at in the beginning. And I don't know if that's like a like a like a gender, like women are supposed to be like helpers. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Um, because that it tends to happen a lot. Like they start with a two and then it's yeah, so interesting. Well, I have some follow-up questions for you on that, but I want to hear from Molly um about her type nine and what resonates with her the most and how she knew like this is probably where I'm where I'm at right now. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Um, for me, yes, type nine. I uh joke that it took an eight to tell me I'm a nine because I thought I was a four actually at the start when I uh dove into the Nee Grim. So I think it was the creative aspect and them also being a withdrawing number and the withdrawal the withdrawing stance. I uh think that connection just really related. So I at first typed as a four, dove into it more, and encountered an eight that stopped me in my tracks a little aggressively and kind of rocked my world in a way that I was like, I'm gonna prove you wrong. Like, I don't think I am, I'm right, and dove into it. And truly then, yeah, the language, especially of like the struggle of belonging that nines do have as well. There's kind of a correlation there with fours, but even more into the nine, the message that was there, I just I just really resonated with um withdrawing, like I said earlier, resonate with in the four. And even before, like when I was like, oh, another personality thing, like early on, I was like, I don't think I have one. Like, I think I'm all of them, you know. Like, I tend to like a chameleon and blend in with wherever I am. So I was like, I don't have one, you know, and learning more about the nine and like wanting to bring the peace to the group, becoming what it is that's needed in that in that aspect resonated deeply. So I yeah, I was um awoken, you could say abruptly to that reality. Um, and since then I've just dove deeper, I've been diving deeper into that um that language for a nine. And yeah, I just I feel like there's so much stuff there. It's like years right in the making of like, yeah, even as you're saying, Becca of really working with the number and still I resonate too of like holding it loosely. I have had many times ironically thinking I'm a two, so right there with you ladies in that as well. Um yeah, especially the piece of wanting to appease the group. And I'm like, is this out of like me wanting, you know, wanting that, like feedback myself, wanting to feel like I'm helping, you know, or is this out of peace? And anyways, I just get back into the motives behind a nine, and I'm like, I think I still, yeah, that still resonates super deep for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

So yeah, and I I love the questions, like why do I want to do this? And I think that's one of the many gifts of the Enneagram is that you start to you start to see your your um behaviors, I guess, more maybe you become more conscious and aware, but then also when it goes to the next level, you start to ask questions about those behaviors and about those thoughts. And I I just love that. Um so um, Becca, for you, what is what is something that you love about the type four energy? And then um my follow-up question is going to be, and I'll I guess I'll hear from Molly, and then my follow-up question is gonna be um, how you use it in leadership and work. Um, so that's coming. If you want to answer it all at once, you can. If you want to take a pause, you can do that too.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Okay, great. Yeah. Um I think one of the gifts of the four energy in the world, uh, the gift of the four, I think, is this ability to really um it's the gift of empathy. I think the Enneagram helps every number be more empathetic, but I think fours have that's a little bit of a superpower. And I think a lot of it does come from pain in our story. Um, it's was a form of protection, but we know how to read people, read people's emotions well. I think we are we're comfortable with the whole spectrum of emotion. So we can sit with someone who's super excited, or we can sit with someone who's super sad and not feel like we need to manipulate them or move them away from that, but we can just meet them in that place in a genuine way. Um, and I think that that's a gift that the four brings for sure. And I will just tag on, I think that that comes through in work environments, in team building, in the way that I engage with individuals and with groups, is that I I see individuals and I see I can meet them in wherever space they're at. If they're having a hard day, if they're having a good day, I I can figure, figure out emotionally to empathetically meet them in that space. And I think that that's the gift that the four brings. There's a dark side, of course, but I think that can be the healthy side of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, it's like that same energy, yeah, that you that drives that that behavior is the same energy like behind the shadow and the dark side, but it it's it's that same, um, just a different side of the coin. And I I will say, like, I I always think to myself in those situations where either it's like I need to face it myself as a type seven, I'm like, oh, it's fine. Or when a friend comes to me, I'm like, oh, it's fine, like what this meant to be. And so I have realized um actually like how harmful that that has been. And so I'm always thinking, like, what would a four do? How can I sit here and just be like, yeah, that sucks. And and like just be okay with like not having to like spin it and that I'm still a very much a work in progress. My boyfriend just called me out actually last week. He's like, you don't ever let me just sit with it. So, but yeah, I I would I would agree. And I'm always thinking, um, yeah, how can I tap into some of that the that four energy with those, the four gift right there? So I love that. Um, Molly, what about you? What's what's something that you love about being a type 9 or that type 9 energy? And how do you use it in leadership or in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Sure. Um, man, lots of things I love about being mine. Um I uh I do really enjoy that nines are very empathetic numbers. I uh I think that really roots out of the place of um being able to dive into people's stories and relate on a very personal level, um, seeing from all perspectives and almost joke at times, like we were just saying, shadow numbers of I then tend to like fall asleep to myself because I'm focusing on the ones around me. But um, I do think that that brings so much beauty into especially a workplace. I mean, in relationships in general, and then in a workplace, it creates a very harmonious um workplace, very welcoming, very safe. And yeah, I think for myself, a growing point in it is the word leadership. Um, I don't know if most nines would resonate, but I think I like to stay more in the middle of like, okay, I will mediate the situation. And I mean, the whole message of like it's not okay to assert myself, right? So leadership can feel like asserting myself. So as I'm saying this, I'm like, huh, tension, like inside, like, how do I bring about things in leadership? But I would say out of that, it really is leading in a way. It may not be what we have painted, especially in the Western culture, of what leadership is, and to be, you know, holding the flag in the front and really leading the charge, but actually being in the relationships with people, being at the ground level, understanding, mediating, and bringing people together on one mission, I think is huge.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

So yeah. And Molly, you brought up a great point. I I actually just had this conversation last night in another podcast interview. Um, and the guest was um an empath coach for like very empathic people. And um, she we had a little conversation about leadership, and she was saying that um we need to like broaden our definition of leadership because typically we have like this authoritarian style like in mind, but there's all kinds of different styles. And so I think what you said is just a reminder of that, like very much all kinds of different ways to lead. Um, and so we all are leaders kind of in our own way and our own styles. Um, I would love to hear, and if you both want to answer this or one of you want to take this, but this is this is kind of fun to have other Enneagram experts on the show. So it's like, well, while you're here, I just got to ask some common questions that I I get sometimes and would just love to hear your perspective. I think it's always important to hear other people's opinions and insights on things. So one of the questions um that comes up a lot is um people find out their type and their number and it's like great. And then it's like, well, how do I use this exactly? Like what do I, I got my number, but like beyond like scrolling through Instagram and laughing at memes, what can I do with this? Like what would you like? What are some of the the your like your most impactful way or like um I guess important ways that you have seen the Enneagram be used in or maybe how you've used it in your own self um self-growth journey?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

We always play this game of like, are you like each other?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Well, and that's not fair. I should have I should have said a number because I did a panel one time too, and I wasn't good about saying names, and then we this happened. So no worries.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

All good. We yeah, I can tee it off and then back please please add in your perspective too. Um I mean for us both, the heart behind our magazine is conversations and self-reflection, um, almost like the internal and the external spaces. We have used it. Um one, I mean, internal that can go. I mean, both topics are very broad, but internal can enter into therapy, can enter into marriage, it can enter into friendships, all relationships that you have. Um, by first starting with the self, we do also use that language as well as that it starts inside. Um, so doing that inner work really starts to push in and then it pushes out. Um so I mean, as in steps for what's next for an individual to go in. We love, I mean, I know I'm not a huge reader, so when I like get recommended to read, I'm like, okay. But truly reading and diving deeper, especially into just teachers who have been in the work for a long time, just brings such a richness to the Enneagram. I love there's definitely space for social media and the memes, as you said, like the shore. And like you dipping your toes into it, getting a taste, starting to see. And then as you go deeper into deeper water, you know, you can snorkle, you can surf, you can do all sorts of things. But I just start to go deeper into those waters. There's yeah, a lot deeper teaching. Like Suzanne Stefiel, we really we reference her a lot. We love her work. She's done the work of taking time to just be in it and not producing any work outside of herself, and then to take what she's learned and that pause and that rest, and then has created her work. So respect for that, and again, that internal work before making it external. So from there, read books, throw it back to you is lovely, a great like bridge between the shore into the deep water, I would say. Um, we really hope that for our magazines as well, that it's a way to bridge people from the shore into the deeper waters of the deeper teachings. It's gonna be really intimidating, like some of the language. Very intimidating. So we hope to be that too. So I would even recommend some of our issues. Um yeah, and then even in communications with people, as you start to learn your own type, we would encourage to learn other types too. To know how my husband, as a one, how he thinks and how he's approaching the same gym, you know, but seeing it from a very different angle. Um knowing his language helps me when I'm when I'm in my stress, I can try my hardest. You know, to like try to get outside of my perspective and be like, oh, he's totally seeing it different. Even if I can't see it, it's helping me have questions, right? To be able to ask, to then have him tell me what he's seeing. So I think it just helps create space for me to understand that someone sees it different. So how can I just press in to ask questions at least at that point and learn more? So that's kind of loosely what I would say between the internal and external. I'd love to hear your thoughts back.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, so good, Mo. Um, yeah, so all of that, yes, is like the heartbeat behind so much of our values and our approach. And that's why we have even intentionally veered away from digital, like an e-magazine or anything like that. We really wanted it to be a physical. So it really invites you to unplug and to get away, to slow down. We have reflection space. So you write down. We really believe in the power of journaling, even if it's just a line or two a day. I think another big part that I would tell people is to be really kind to yourself. This is not lighthearted, gimmicky work. This is not even necessarily just like powering up, um, bulking up muscle, try harder. This is actually the work of um slowing down, releasing, breathing out, letting go. It's a very different than we're used to in as far as like self-improvement goes. So we say in every issue, this is a journey that we never really get to a place of arrival. So allow yourself the pace of a journey and don't rush through it. There's gifts in a slower pace that you can't get if you're rushing to just get to the next insight. And it just seems like that pace is increasing every day. Like get to the next milestone, get the next piece of information, download this, listen to this. So I would even encourage if there's something inspiring, like pick one book that you want to just camp out in, or pick one podcast, or pick something that's really resonating. That the there's so many different numbers teaching the Enneagram, which is brilliant because, and that's what we love about the magazine is that each number, because that's going to connect with different people and different personalities. So find a teacher, find a voice that resonates with you. And then when you get an insight, like chew on it, like enjoy it for the meal that it is and let it really affect you. We're I would think we want to think we digest things and implement things and integrate things a lot faster than we actually do. So I think just constantly encouraging people to be kind that this is a big journey that we're all on together, and to be kind to one another, of course, as well on that journey. So that would just be the only other piece I would add to that.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

You both, yeah, that was beautiful. That was, I I love the external, internal way to think of it, the shore, the deep end, being kind. Um, Becca, this is that this is one thing that I'm working on again. Another thing um is that doing on one thing for longer. And I I know that I'm not alone in this um because there's it's like, oh, I read this magazine, check it off, look at look at all these books I've read. I'm so I I know so much, but it's like how much do I actually implement and embody kind of like you were saying? It's like, gosh, if I could just do one thing from each of these books, like I would be light years ahead of probably worrying now, but it's like consume, consume, consume, because that feels good and that feels easy. And sometimes that sitting with it feels uncomfortable and kind of hard. And like, what is this really productive? Like, what am I doing? So um for me, just selfishly here, that was a great reminder. So I loved how you said that. Um, speaking of the magazine, I would I would love to hear just um about the magazine. I know you mentioned like different sections. Could one of you give us kind of an overview? Um and I was gonna ask you how you decided to do a print magazine. So Becca, love that you shared that. Um, but would one of you just kind of be share like what is the Enneagram magazine? Oh, they're both laughing.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Are you gonna feel like um so yeah, we've been we've been friends for a long time and we have been in different relationship like contexts. Um I was working at a university and Molly was a student at the time, and I was a resident director, and she was an RA. And then we also did um some like branding projects and different things like that. She's a graphic designer. Um, that was her major, and I really think she's like the graphic designer can like pigeonhole. I think titles sometimes pigeonhole people, but um, that is one of many things that make up her gift set. But that is one prophetic, powerful gift of hers. And so we I knew that like 10 years ago. That was something that she was able to bring content into a visual space like I had rarely seen before. And I love content. I mean, like when you were talking about that, I'm preaching to the choir when I say that, like slow down, eat a pie, because I am the queen of buying another book. My husband's like, you bought another book? Like, did you read the one you just bought on Amazon? You know, like it was just one of those like constant, right? I just love it. So we knew we liked this combination. We had really enjoyed and we had worked on a couple of projects where it's like, okay, she's the art direction, she's bringing this visual, she's bringing this content to life. We like that. We really enjoy working together. Um, but we weren't sure what the content was going to be around or like what we were gonna really explore together. We knew we had our gifts balanced each other really well. And we like to say it was a shower aha moment. And Molly just calls me and it's like the Enneagram, like no-brainer. It was something that had been in part of our conversation, just very normal language, things that we had been talking about for so long. And we're like, it was like uh yes, okay, I think this is all right, let's do it. And then we had kind of played around with lots of different versions of it, different types of like how are we gonna approach it? Are we gonna do a magazine for each number? Are we gonna how are we gonna do that? And it really um there's an awesome magazine, what it's philosopher, but what's the yeah, then it's called New Philosopher. New Philosopher. And they really pick a topic and hone in on that topic and really invite people from different perspectives and experiences and stages of life to explore that. And so we really were inspired by that. And Molly brought that to the table, and it's made so much sense because we think in the Enneagram world, it's really easy to get isolated into your number. But we think the beauty of the Enneagram is when all of the numbers are in our space together, learning from one another and sharing with each other, because we believe that there's gifts of all nine that we can embody, that we can bring forth, that we can learn from each other and adapt and bring into our own lives. And so we're only better when we and we talk about this often as well, the beauty of diversity around the table, making sure you have people that think differently than you, that have different opinions than you around the table, that that's only going to help you. That's um how we were meant to thrive, we really believe. So that's a little bit of where we got started. And that was about four years ago that we were like, okay, I think this is the idea. Okay, I think we're gonna start doing this. And uh, we say that it feels like a wave that we're riding. We just kind of stepped into this space and we took one step and it was like, okay, we're getting connected, we're randomly having these conversations, we're getting confirmation here, a little breadcrumb here, a little, and so it was just kind of this, okay, we're gonna one more green light, one more step forward, one more step. And now we're in we're finishing up the second year, kind of marveling at what in the world has taken place.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

So I'm not sure if that answered all of the questions, but well, it I love the origin story because that is like the hardest part and like bringing your idea. Like the idea is there for so many of us. It's just that's that bridge to actually like hit publish or hit start or whatever. And so um I I love just kind of hearing, even just like if do we do an issue for each type? Like, how does this work? And it's never like the first idea that evolves, but um, that I that was really interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Um, Molly, would you be willing just to talk a little bit about how the the publication is structured and um and it it is, I will say, it is gorgeous, and like the paper is super thick and you just feel like so luxurious reading it. Um, but I know that you had mentioned like there's a theme, there's journal opportunities, there's guest advisors, just I would love to kind of hear how it's structured. Um, if you'd be willing to share that, Molly.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

For sure. Yeah, one thing too, um, and Mits there's again so many pieces to make the puzzle um and continuing to add pieces to it. Um but one of those that started us early was thinking about the millennial generation. And at one point we had even heard we knew that that was that was where we fall, and we're like, that's who we would want to really, especially as for Pentagrams peaking, that's where a lot of the interest is coming from. And um, and social media, you know. And we wanted to be able to speak to that generation, and we had heard at one point that that generation in specific asked the question, what is beautiful? And uh, when they go through life, it's like is that adding beauty? What is beautiful? How can I continue to make beauty? And we heard that and we were like our minds were just blown, and it resonated so deeply with both of us coming from the millennial generation as well. So um, hearing that, and then being in this passion project in New Gare magazine, especially in the early stages, we were like, that has gotta be a piece of what we're adding. And if we really want to be impacting and speaking to that generation, then that has to be a huge part of what we're doing. So beauty was gonna be a big aspect of how we created the magazine, very intentional, especially. I mean, even as a graphic designer, I'm like, well, great, awesome. Now I have a reason to like continue to design and make things look great. Um, and that not just be an aesthetical, like aesthetic, great, I just want to make it pretty. And it had purpose behind it, and I love that. So we sought out to make it really great product. So, like you said, we love the denser paper, just feels special, it feels like something you want to keep. Um, it's not just this cheap, clumsy. We kind of too wanted to redefine the magazine. So we're like, we're not a book, we're not this like cheap, you know, travel magazine that like you can just fold in half and stuff in a bag really easy. Um, we yeah, it's this dense you want to sit with it, you want to journey with it. It travels with you, you want to take care of it, it can sit on your coffee table, like many different uses for it. So thicker paper, uh more substantial. Uh the outside, even just having the soft touch, it's an experience as you're even just combing it before even going into it, which is really lovely. Um, the sections inside the brilliance of Becca, um with the self-reflection sections. We two, I guess even before then, I'm getting ahead of myself. Um, how we have it structured in every issue is we have a reminder section um after letters from us. And early on, it was letters from us, and then we again, as we added new puzzle pieces to our big puzzle, we found out that having advisors for our issue was a huge add, it was a huge plus because while we know things about the Enneagram magazine, there are people who have like truly done the work in studying and creating and learning um and adding to the knowledge, I would say, of the Enneagram. And so we have invited people that are adding that and that are taking it even further, that are teachers, we'd say we love teaching, but actual teachers of the magazine. So that's who we invite to be our advisors who just have just kind of come in the last few issues this last year. So that's a new add-on, as you mentioned, with the health issue that you have. Um following that, we have reminders, as I was saying before. The reminder section just helps us pause, helps us remember, like kind of return back, like remember what we're savoring, what we're pursuing, um, helps us slow down, as Becca said, why we love prints and why we're not really pursuing digital so much, is that we want to slow down, we want to change that pace. And we believe it's in that hidden slow pace that really like the seed can really grow, like seed under the soil can be tended to. So the reminder section, and then we move into our content. That as Becca said, we want to represent every number. So in each issue, you can expect an article from every number from their perspective on whatever topic it is. So your issue is health that you have in your hands. So there's a number responding to their thoughts on health and what they've experienced from their perspective and their number. And depending on how the issue is laid out, there's reflection sections at the end of either the numbers or at the end of the sections that we have broken out. Um, as well as providing resources. We really want to be an arrow that's pointing to these teachers that are creating brilliant work and that are again bringing us into the deep waters and that are just adding beauty with their their diversity and their perspective. So that's an overview, yeah, you can say of all the different sections that you can expect.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Well, and I'll just reiterate, and you had said this, I forget at what point, Molly. Um, I think maybe when you were talking about how to use the Enneagram and not just to focus on your own type, but to really because it is fun to learn about your own type. But I I I found myself, yeah, it's like, oh, this is so interesting. Like what a different perspective. And just even if I don't know, like I always think too, like when I'm at a coffee, and this is like I'm an Enneagram nerd now, so this just no going back, but I'm even in the coffee line and I'm thinking, like, oh my gosh, this person's upset. And I'm like, why might they be upset? Like, what is their motive? And um, I could only imagine why I would be upset or bothered, you know, but understanding the other energies of the Enneagram, it's like, oh my gosh, it's just opened my eyes to so many other things and just ways of seeing the world. So huge benefit in understanding numbers that, you know, outside of just your own. Um, I can talk to you guys forever, by the way. This is like so interesting. You both are so calming. I'm like so zen-out right now. Um, I know we have to wrap it up, but I I would just love to hear. Um, I will have two more questions, I guess, before we get into a couple of just rapid fire. Um you, you both you're this is a partnership. And um, I'm just curious what it's like um having a, I don't know, like a what a co co-creator, I guess. I've I've talked to other people who co-host podcasts and who will work on a specific course or program together. And I see so many benefits. So I'm just curious if you would be willing to share some of the benefits and then for anybody considering teaming up with somebody, anything to consider um before making that commitment. Um and Becca, I guess do if you want to start.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Oh yeah. Um oh my goodness. Well, I think we we were very lucky because we already have a history before we jumped into um kind of taking that step of like really it's it's a you'll be tested for sure. Um, the relationship will be tested. So I think to have a strong foundation of trust is vital. Um just and equal values, knowing that your values and your partner's values align. Um, what really matters? Like if one person's like, no, I just want to make money, and the other person's like, no, I just want to connect people, like obviously that's gonna be a very hard thing to wrap around. We did something early on um called StratOp that held that's like a three-day process. And so we went away on a retreat into a beautiful home in Wisconsin, and we just walked through this process for three days, and it really hones you in on your story, how you got to where you are and your values, what you want to be about. Um, because as much as we want to be about everything, we can't be. So, what are those things, those five things, those core values, um, things that motivate us, drive us? And that was very foundational to us being able to have common language, to really stack our hands and go like, yes. So if there's anything I think we would both advocate for, it's we and then we do refreshes on this. We we circle back to it and touch back on it. So we've done that for the three years that we've really been diving into it. And we can't it's we want to live the value of slowing down and hitting pause and re-evaluating. We don't want to be living a different story than we're telling. So we're trying to really put that into practice as well in the slowing down, checking in, how are we doing? And then I would say really um valuing the other person's like life and journey and where they're at um above like producing is has been a really important like tool in the wheel, if you will. So Mel, I don't know why you would add to that.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

But yeah, um it may sound cliche since it's like Enneagram-related podcast conversation, but truly, I will even throw that in there. Uh the language that we have, um, the foundation of just knowing Becca as a four, not that I'm boxing her into it, but again, that's giving me these tools, these starting points of like, okay, you're also a withdrawing number. We both withdraw. So, what does that look like when we both want to withdraw? And like, how do we keep our business going? And how do we keep our communication strong as ever, you know? So there are definitely these solid language connections that we have through the Enneagram that it's helping us highlight, like, okay, we know these things, so like how can we have our communication be at its height? How can we be proactive in these in these areas? And again, that strata process that Becca had mentioned was huge. And one, revealing our values, as she said, that help us like sack hands in that way, and then it also helps us realize, like, okay, these are the areas we don't really enjoy doing. So, how do we help encourage each other when for like we want to withdraw? Like, I don't I don't want to like figure out social media strategies. I like Becca doesn't want to figure out packaging and delivering and getting to a post office and sending out all these things, you know, but the things need to get done. So, how do we help support each other? How do we help keep communicating? So our buckets are being filled, we're not burning out. I think that was a big thing that we realized too in StratOp, and that process was burnout is ever evident, especially in a fast-paced culture that we're in. And so a huge part, I mean, of our mission from the beginning. I mean, truly five years ago, four years, whenever that was back, that we were in Wisconsin, that was the biggest thing we talked about was we want to be slow paced. That's our value. If that's what we're doing in our magazine, that's how we need to operate individually and together and as a company. So as she was saying, yeah, just to echo that of like life trumps our business, and that seems counterintuitive at times, or seems like that's that's a recipe for failure. Like you gotta keep, you know, trompiness a bit. And we're like, we just value we value us being invested and being able to be invested. Um, we gotta fill ourselves up to be able to pour out. So um that's a huge piece that we've uncovered uh through Enneagram, through that shout-out process, just coming together, I would say, and communication is huge.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Yes, I could see that. And I could see, yeah, the benefits of understanding each other's types are just kind of where that they're coming from. Um what's next? Like what's what are you looking forward to with Enneagram magazine in 2022 or just any big visions that you have for the publication?

SPEAKER_02 44:59

It's actually very ironic. We I mean, even just what we have been saying about life and this last year, two years. I mean, truly, the life of the magazine so far has been pretty unconventional life-wise for us both. Rebecca had her second child, we had our first. COVID happened as we were releasing our second issue. So it really has been there's been a lot going on. Um, and that's I mean, just the the big ones. There's tons in between. And um yeah, with that, we are just holding it very loose this next year. Rest is a word that continues to come to the surface for us. Um, I don't want to like pre-describe anything and any timeline uh for us, but we're definitely looking into the future as a a time to pause and to reset to live our values, um, to actually be reflecting into that. Um, as we're asking others to reflect, it's like we also should be doing that. So we just look forward to the next few at least months um to be a time of rest for us, a reset. And yeah, I mean, big dreams. We're still dreaming that won't stop for sure. Um, but yeah, that's kind of where we're at today, at least we can share.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

And then speaking of kind of looking ahead, when this episode is released, I think your wonder um issue will be out November 15th. Um, what should we know about that publication or about that specific issue? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Oh, we just love it. And it does feel like every issue we text each other and we say, I think this might be my favorite. And it's like children, right? We really do feel like they're these little birds that we like shove out of the nest, and some are easier to get out of the nest than others. And we just, oh, it's just like really special one. And again, not because of anything that we did, but the voices, the stories, the artwork. We've got some original artwork, we've got poetry. And I we didn't even the subject of the issue always does a work in us before it ever comes out. And so, wow, do we need more wonder in our world? Like ever I the more that we are talking to people, the more that we're of course it's on our radar, we're watching for it, but the more that we just are paying attention, we're hearing the cry of it, we're hearing people wanting it, needing it. Um, like a callback to to wonder, to child like exploring, coloring, being out in nature, being reminded, letting the kids teach us about some of the simplicity and beauty of life when it can just feel so heavy and so hard. And it has been, and there's for sure a place for that, and we need to name it and grieve it. Uh, I mean, forwards testify, right? But if it's not balanced with a sense of gratitude, joy, and wonder, it can really start to uh erode our soul, I would say. So we're just really thinking the timing again is beyond our control and beyond us. And we just think it's really exciting, and we're so grateful to be a part of it to be able to have a front row seat to see it come forth.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Yeah. And did I see that? Um, is it Vanessa Fernandez? What is a okay, so she was, I I went through um Enneagram University and she was the um one of the group coaches. Coaches leading the leading the group, and um she was amazing. We got to work with her. Yeah, I think it was eight weeks, and I like looked forward to every Wednesday getting to sit down with her. So that's cool to I look forward to that one for sure. Um just a couple, I guess for for you guys, we'll we'll wrap it up with this. You had mentioned, I think it was Molly who said the arrow. You guys are the arrow to kind of point people. Um to end this episode, I would love to hear from each of you. Like, where should somebody who is kind of either newer in their journey or or further along and just looking for the next step? Obviously, Enneagram magazine um should be on that list. What other resources, what other favorite resources do you have? Books, teachers, anything, um, podcasts, would love to hear just maybe two, three resources that you really are your go-to.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Oh, that's hard. I suppose more degree. It's all good. Oh, it's good. Being concise is a good is a good thing too. Um, one thing I will say is a starting point with us in the Enneagram magazine would be the Enneagram Primer. It's our first issue that kind of encapsulates what is the Enneagram, what is my type? It could potentially help you find your type. It's a great place to start, just as a peeing it off there. Um outside of any gram magazine, golly. We as for teachers, so many lovely ones out there. I've already mentioned Suzanne Stabil is near and dear um for us. We really love her perspective and what she's taught. And she's had she has several books out there. Um, she has three Read Back to You, Path Between Us, and then her new one is coming out. And it's called The Journey Towards Wholeness. Yeah, the Journey Towards Wholeness. Okay. Very yeah, yep. Highly recommend that um series. As her podcast, she has one as well. We'd love to throw in Drew Mosier into that as well, and Seth Creek Moore and Seth Abraham. Uh they have one. Yeah, Fathoms, right? Fathoms and Enneagram podcast. Great one. And then I'll throw one more out and then Beck, please throw any others. They're just like coming in tough. Um, we actually just recently did a training um with I always mix it up, awareness to action. And that's with Mario Sakura, and then um Tamar and Maria Jose. Maria Jose.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Uh those three do a brilliant job in that training. We learned so much. It goes more, I would say, into like subtypes. It does do type as well. It goes very it goes a lot deeper. So I would probably recommend that as if you love the Enneagram, you're like, how can I get more of this? I feel like I am kind of at a plateau. Highly recommend that training. Um, it really does take people further. Um, I mean, we've been in the Enneagram talk for a handful of years, and we took it and we're like, wow, we are seeing things with a whole new lens. So good to know.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

It's international. It's like people from all over the world that are in that call with you. So that's just another really healthy thing about it. Is yeah, all over the world. It's crazy and beautiful. Um, I would say also I really love Evan Barbie as a teacher, and she does this brilliant thing called the Enya Lab. Ooh. And and this one is type specific. And so I was just with a group of fours for several weeks, and it was really helpful for me. It was, I mean, there is a time for that.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

And that you can just go, I get you, I know exactly what you're saying. Or, you know what, that's so interesting. I've never thought about it like that, but what about this? And see where you're different, see where you're the same. It's just, it was such an intentional, guided time. And I mean, there was a bond there that I still have with those people. So it's called Enealab. And it's just it really is it puts you in the posture of student and working it out with people, which is what the Enneagram was always intended to be was this oral tradition that's with people and you're processing it, and you're and that's gonna help you integrate it a lot more than just keep it in your head. So though those would be some, and of course, I'm gonna think of five more after this, right? And be like, oh, we should have mentioned that. But we do have it on our website as well. We have a resource page because we just think there's some really great stuff out there that may people may not know about.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Well, and I want that's my my last question to you guys. Um, is where can if somebody wants to get their hands on the next issue, get in touch with you, learn about your resources, what's the best place to go? How do we do that?

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Yeah, head on over to our website, enneagrammagazine.com. Keep it nice and simple. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

So like that, easy to remember, simple. Um, well, listen, I appreciate you both being here so much. Um, I know that you're both moms, you know, running the magazine, have other things happening in life. So I appreciate the time and all that you shared. And um, congratulations. I mean, I know it's like two years at this point, but like wow, like so, so cool. And um, I just think like when I got this in the mail, I'm holding up my SGL, I was like, what a great idea. I I actually used to work in print publishing. I sold advertising for print publishing shows like Prince Dead, and we were always like, oh no, it's a way to get away from your computer. And so, like when you were talking about it, it's like, yes, I I love this. So I I I cannot recommend to the listeners enough to check out their website. Past issues are are for sale as well, correct? And then um their newest one on Wonder um just sounds amazing. So I hope you guys will get connected with them and and get um get your hands on a copy of the the publication. And uh with that, I appreciate you both for being here for having us.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

So good.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Thank you.