SPEAKER_01 0:00

Melissa Kellogg-Lewick is our special guest today. And she is coming to us as a business coach specifically for solopreneurs who are interested in making more, but also wanting to hustle less, which is such a perfect topic for Melissa to be sharing with us today, both because of the story she's going to be sharing with us in a little bit, and also as a type three who tend to be the hustlers on the Enneagram. They're they're they're the hustle harder t-shirt wearers, they're the card-carrying hustlers of the Enneagram. And through her growth, specifically some growth that has happened in the last year or two, um, she has come to see that hustle doesn't necessarily equal success. So now she has kind of taken those lessons learned and created a coaching and strategy framework where she helps her clients do that, but without always working all the time. And this pivot, most recent pivot, happened when she had been creating this amazing online course that she kept launching. But each time, less and less people signed up, including zero people the last time she shared it. So she knew that something was wrong. She just didn't know exactly how to fix it. And that's when she seeked out some additional help and resources and discovered coaching. And then through coaching, she had this eye-opening experience that it wasn't the action that she was taking that was leading to her not meeting her goals and getting to where she wanted to be. It was her way of thinking about herself, the way she thought about her business, the way she thought about her course. It was all self-sabotage, it was all sabotaging her success, that that mindset, that um the yeah, just the way that she was looking at herself. And she was putting in a lot of action, she was putting in a lot of hustle and a lot of effort, but clearly that wasn't the problem. So now that she has learned how to kind of transform her mindset, she has tremendously changed the trajectory of her business. It has been mind-blowing. She actually tripled the size of her business in one year and was able to break through a six-figure revenue ceiling that she had been stuck under for 10 years. So, oh my goodness, right? What how much can open up when we allow and not necessarily force? And this is something that I have been learning myself, um, trying to continue to learn and practice. So I'm really excited for you to hear from Melissa, hear a little bit about her um drive to succeed in the past, the pressure that she put on herself, that fear of failure, and then also getting into the story of what she considered a massive failure and how that has turned into this successful awesome place that she is now, but without all that hustle and 12-hour days of working. So, without further ado, let's jump into this interview with Melissa Kellogg-Lewick. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Welcome back to another episode of the Enneagram MBA podcast. Today we are being joined by a, yes, an expert, but I also am lucky enough to call her a friend. Melissa Kellogg Lewick is a marketing expert and a business coach for women that helps women build up to their first 100,000 in business, which we're gonna get into how she helps and all of that. And I cannot wait for that part. She also is coming to us as an Enneagram type three. So we're gonna get to hear a little bit about her experience. And then Melissa actually has a specific event that kind of showcased um this type three energy and and also kind of shows how she has really grown into such a healthy version of that type three energy. So I'm excited to hear from her. Welcome to the show, Melissa. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

It's so good to see you.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

I am pumped that you're here. Um we, you know, I always like to share really quickly how we met. And Melissa and I go back at least three years at this point. We also met at the um Amy Porterfield Entrepreneur Experience. We had both signed up for B school, I believe is how you did that. And then that was like the bonus at the time. That was her first one. So um and we sat at the same table for I don't know, two days. Yeah. Two three, two, three days, went to lunches together. And then um our table was the best table ever. We we started meeting once a month and did that for a couple of years, and then um have just stayed in touch. So it's it's awesome. You just never know what a connection on Instagram or LinkedIn or sitting next to somebody at an event might bring you. So um, with that, Melissa, I always like to ask, what about? So you've said kind of the type three feels the most relevant, accurate to you. Um, what about that type three energy really resonates with you?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Well, definitely the um not wanting to fail and wanting to be successful and seen as successful. Um, I know that can be a strength and a weakness, right? But I'm kind of new to the Enneagram. So um, you know, I I don't know a whole lot about my type, um, but it has helped me really to just have more awareness around that some of these um personality traits are normal just because of my type. Like I don't have I'm not wrong or bad because of them. But um, but yeah, it I think that's really what I resonate with the most is the fear of failing and desire to be loved and accepted.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yes, yes. And we all have that, right? Especially the the people that are listening to this podcast. Um, they have that drive, that like want to succeed, fear of failure as well. But for the type three, it tends to be very intense. And just like you said, it's kind of what um it we had talked before we recorded, like the threes are kind of the ultimate human doings versus human beings. And so how have you kind of seen that show up in along your business journey? Because you have been in business for yourself, I think since 2005. Is that right? So a long time. And would you be willing to share just kind of how you now that you know, like, oh my gosh, accomplishments, doing, um, wanting to be good at everything, um, how that, how you kind of have seen that play out and and maybe how that has maybe held you back a little bit until recently, a recent event that occurred, not recently, but in the last year.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah, I it's so funny that we're talking about this because it's that's what I get coached on by my coach, like almost every time I get coached. So my um desire to be doing, doing, doing, rather than, you know, that's kind of my default uh when I'm feeling uncomfortable or not successful or whatever. I'm always about what else do I need to be doing, right? And so she, so I've grown in a lot of awareness around that this past year, around how it's not all the doing, it's the energy that I'm bringing. You know, it's higher level thinking that I want to be having that is really going to um help me to scale. And this really became apparent for me over the last five years when I decided I wanted to scale my business. The first 10 years of my business, I was providing den for you marketing services, written content creation, and I had some really great, you know, small stable of really great clients that were consistent. And I was going through my life, you know, when I started my business, I was single and not married, no kids. And um then we got married, I got married and started having children. And so life changes, right? And so I was able to keep my business going and not really have to do a lot. I, you know, I wasn't really in personal growth. I was in children growth at that time. But when I decided to scale, you know, everything changed as far as really needing to work on my own personal growth and self-concept. Um, and so that's really been a journey for me uh of learning.

unknown 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah. And I know that on your website, you even have um, you talk about how you help your clients um make more money and scale, like you were talking about, you've done for yourself, but without the hustle. Because also the average, the stereotypical three is like they have that hustle harder coffee mug on their on their desk. Um, because it, you know, and I can relate to this energy a lot as well, because it feels like when you're resting or doing something other than work, it's like, well, what am I doing with myself? Like, where's my worth? Um, what are some things that you have done that have that um or practices maybe that you have to help you hustle less to rest or to just be and not always do?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Well, uh that's come to me through a lot of failure of doing, doing, doing and not getting the results. So now um what I have awareness on if I'm not getting the results I want, whether it's, you know, um with clients and revenue or whether it's with not, you know, producing the things that I want to be producing, um, I have to look at why am I not getting those results? And normally it has nothing to do with the amount of things I'm doing, it has to be doing with what I'm thinking and what how I'm feeling. And so I've really come to a lot more awareness of that and um and taking time to just slow down and examine what is going on behind the scenes, because we can be doing all of the things, but if our you know head is full of trash and we feel like crap, the results are not going to be there.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah. And and I know just because we we used to have our monthly meetings. Um, and then you talk about it a little bit on your website too, the story of this course that you had created and poured your heart into. And it just wasn't getting the results that you wanted. And I wanted to to, if if you're willing, um, to see if you're willing to talk a little bit about that story, like kind of what that was like, what you learned from it, because whether it's a course or an you know, a coaching offer, or I mean, even like a you know, a free download to grow your email list, I know from myself, from working with my own clients, from being in groups, it is so disheartening to work so hard on something and put it out there and then to get crickets. And a lot of times it's so discouraging that it's like, well, I'm just gonna give up because like clearly I'm not good at this. So would you just so we can kind of relate to to this and know like we're not the only one who have experienced failure like this, would you be willing to share a little bit about that story?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, for sure. Uh it definitely was a pivotal moment for me. I uh wanted, like I said earlier, I decided I wanted to scale my business once my youngest son started school full time. And so I went about that journey of how that was going to happen. And um, you notice my language, the how. So I tried a lot of different things. And I at that time, like I said, was providing marketing services and was being paid by the hour. So it was kind of that dollars for hours model. And as a mom, I didn't have a lot of hours. So my income was limited to the number, you know, I couldn't make any more than the hours I had to offer. So I wanted to go to try a uh one-to-many type model. So of course I went to the experts and bought all the courses, did all the learning, created a beautiful course, and then put it out there and had very few people buy. And I felt like, um, and this is probably part of my three as well, I did everything perfect, right? Like I did, and I'm sure I didn't, because there's no way we could, right? But in my mind, I thought I had done everything exactly as the experts had told me to do, and this didn't work. And so what was going on? And of course, I wanted to blame the experts, the courses that you know I had taken or whatever. But uh, that's when I discovered coaching. So it became such a blessing to me because I discovered coaching and I discovered that really where the responsibility uh lied was with me and what was going on in my mind, what I was thinking about myself, my business, my course. I at that time I didn't understand the value that I brought to the market. I had because of that, I didn't have the confidence to sell it. And so really I had this beautiful course, but I didn't have the confidence to sell it. So no one actually got to see the beautiful course, or very few people, right? And so that really began a journey for me of understanding that the way we think about ourselves and the way that we think about our business is just as important as all the strategies and the doing. Um, the thinking is just as important. So that's where I always start with my clients. I work with women, and I think a lot of times we suffer from not really knowing our value and the worth that we have in the marketplace. I mean, of course, as a human, you are inherently 100% valuable, but understanding the value that we bring with our experience and our knowledge and the uniqueness that we have. And uh, so that really was such a blessing because I learned about the value, you know, that I bring to the market. And it's been a journey for me. And I continue to own that, right? And to step up as a CEO and a leader and an expert. And just calling myself an expert, you kind of get a little spermy. It's like I'm not a certified expert. Like, where's the certification for expert, right? But if I think of myself that way and believe that, then that's how I show up, right? I show up for the people that I'm best able to serve as that expert in that expert energy. And they get better coaching because of that, right? And so that's really uh the work that I do now. I discovered coaching through that experience of this, the failure of selling that course. And so all the discovery that I've done has been transformational for me as a person, but also uh for my business. And my business has completely turned around. And I've been able to grow a six-figure coaching business, and it's so fulfilling and so enjoyable. So I couldn't, you know, help but want to teach other women how to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

So yeah, and I think you I think I'd read that you had three X your income just in the last year. Yes, in 2020. Uh-huh. Yeah, with the transformation or the transition. Um and one uh so one of the gifts of a three is to be able to um not just cast a vision, but to help people get from point A to point B in the most efficient uh way. And so I could see why like your course you built it. It was just a matter of like I guess sharing it with with other people, getting it out there. But now with your coaching, I'm assuming you're so good at what you do because you you can cast the vision and execute on it. So um what are some of those um, I don't know if it's like missteps or roadblocks or mistakes that a lot of um solopreneurs make when it comes to getting visible, getting their offer out there, kind of like you what you were talking about. Like where's the where's the disconnect? Where do where are some common um places that we tend to get tripped up?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Well, I think one of the largest ones, like I said, is having that confidence to get out there and sell and market and to and really understanding the expertise that they have and the uniqueness. Um, we also get caught up in thinking we need to have a niche, right? Like we hear the riches are in the niches and all this. But what if, and I you know, coach my clients on this a lot is what if you are your niche, right? Like your unique personality, experiences, the way you do business, you know, even your hobbies and the fact that you're a parent or whatever or a dog mom or whatever, bringing all that out creates that familiarity and um comfort for people that want to work with you. And so you can almost be your own niche, you know, and not get caught up in um in some of that mind drama that we all do, right? And I also see a lot of solopreneurs avoid, and I did for 10 years, avoid investing in themselves and in their business. We think we can DIY a business or, you know, watch videos on YouTube or whatever. And you certainly can do that. And I did that and I grew my business, but it took me, it's taken me a really long time. When I decided to invest in myself and my business, I have had exponential growth because of that. And it's a lot less lonely, you know. As solopreneurs, we're often, you know, it's lonely at the top, we hear, right? And and it feels that way. So we end up leaning on other people in our lives, our our significant other or friends or, you know, um professional contacts or whatever to help us. But really, really where you're going to get the traction is when you decide that you are worth investing in and um that your vision and your business is worth growing and it was put inside of you for a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Yeah. You've talked a lot about um confidence, and that is so true. Um I'm curious, and I know that this is why people come and work with you. Like this is one of the pillars of your framework of how you help. Would you be willing to share? Um, I don't know if it's like a strategy or a reframe or some sort of new thought, journaling, I don't know, um, to help us start to step into that confidence and to you had mentioned um like understanding the value that we bring to the marketplace. Like how what's one thing that we can start to do to start to to do that with ourselves and communicate that?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah. So regarding confidence, confidence is a feeling. And our feelings are um generated by our thoughts, right? And so a lot of times we think, well, our confidence will come from outside of us, like when a client tells us we're awesome, or when our spouse tells us we're awesome, or when our friends tell us we're amazing. And that can help, definitely. But where the unshakable confidence comes from is your thinking about yourself. And um that's been one of my greatest lessons and journeys is creating that uh rock solid relationship with myself. And having love and compassion towards myself and realizing that self-criticism doesn't make you better, that instead love and compassion makes you better. And so really developing that love and trust in yourself for yourself helps to create confidence. But what you can also do is to think about other areas. Kind of a strategy that I use is to think about other areas, whether it's in your life or in your business, that you do feel confident. And what are some of the thoughts that you have about yourself when you are embarking on that activity or, you know, whatever. So for example, say that you are a coach, like I, you know, like I am, like you are, Sarah, you're a coach and you feel really confident about your coaching. You know that you have seen transformations in your clients. You're such a great coach, right? And so think about, and so maybe you're lacking in confidence around sales, for example. So what are some of the thoughts that you have about yourself in regards to your coaching, right? And then and then write those down and then think about your sales and applying those thoughts to that area, for example, sales that you're not feeling so confident. And so you can borrow thoughts from other areas of your life or business that you do feel confident in order to begin to develop confidence in those areas where you're not feeling so confident. And it's a journey, it's not like we're all confident or not all confident, like you grow in confidence little by little and celebrate those that growth because whatever you celebrate, you will create more of. And so um, those are some things that come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

I love those. I love those. Um, I know another piece of your framework and how you help solopreneurs are understanding, developing their offer and really understanding what they're selling. And I know you had mentioned um I had seen, I think it may be a blog or something that you had written that a lot of times one of the things that maybe hold is holding us back is not fully understanding what it is we're selling. So, how do we get clarity on that?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah, I see that all the time. Um, so really where we get clarity on that is thinking about so often, especially when we're developing marketing, we think about the tangible things we sell, right? And I like to talk about like a virtual assistant. And I have a client that's a virtual assistant, right? So if you ask her, what do you sell? And when we first started working together, what do you sell? She'd be like, Oh, I provide email marketing services, I create landing pages, I can, you know, manage projects. So she lists like all the tangible things she does, right? And yes, that's valuable. And so from that mindset, we kind of go into that time for money, you know. I charge per hour. And uh when we started working together, I think she was charging maybe 20 bucks an hour or something, right? And so, but what I helped her to see is the value of all those things that she provides, yes, but then how she does it, she's extremely organized and extremely um meticulous and reliable and and fun to work with, right? And so those intangibles are also valuable. And value is what creates money. And so if you can increase your value, then you can increase your income. And a part of that is is just recognizing your value, right? And so you have the intangible things that you also provide. And for her, it's like her target audience is entrepreneurs, and so she frees up entrepreneurs from doing the back office type thing so they can spend more time in their zone of genius. And when they spend more time in their zone of genius, they make more money, right? So that increases her value exponentially. And so now, you know, she's doubled more than doubled her rates and charging more of what she's worth and helping being able to help fewer people, but um in a in a much more uh holistic way so that they can go out and make more money. And so that's really an example of seeing your value. It's yes, the intangible thing that you do, but it's also the intangibles and the result that you offer.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Oh, the result. Yeah, that's so good. Because it's like nobody really wants to buy a course. It's like what they're hoping that that course will do. Or I used to sell um magazine ads, and it was like, nobody wants to buy an ad, but it's like they're hoping for a result from that ad. So that's such a great reminder or just thing to think about as we're creating and communicating. Um, the last thing I wanted to ask you around kind of how you help is this um getting, so we've we're we're stepping into our competence, we are understanding the value that we bring to the marketplace, we're getting clarity on um our offer and what we're actually selling. But then there is that piece of like letting other people know what all that is. And so as far as getting visible, some of the things that I hear, and if you want to add to this, would love to hear some things that you hear your clients say. Um, it's like, oh, I don't want to be salesy, I don't want to brag on myself. Um, it feels like um it's scary to put that out there because what if nobody buys it? And so we created something amazing and maybe we're confident about it, but it's like maybe the confidence about bringing it to the marketplace and getting it visible maybe isn't there. So, what are some of those maybe common beliefs that you see around getting visible? And what's something that we can maybe shift in the way that we're thinking about it to help us get more visible?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, uh so visibility for me is and marketing is I've really changed. Um, you know, I've been in working in marketing for 20 years, right? And back when I started, like yellow pages and radio ads were like the thing that you did if you wanted to be successful. And now, you know, the thing is like Instagram or TikToks or whatever. There's gonna be fads throughout time, right? But there are timeless marketing principles that have carried through uh over the decades. Uh, and that those things are really what are important in creating visibility. And for me, one of them is thinking about marketing as how you love other people and how you um accomplish your mission in this world and how you love your clients and how you love your business. Um, if you believe strongly in all of those things, then it's going to be super easy to become visible, right? Because um when you believe in what you're doing, you can't help but talk about it. And so um I never tell my clients they have to do, you know, this tactic or that tactic, you know. I say discover what you love to do and how you love to uh communicate with and reach out to people and go in that direction. So if you love posting on social media and interacting with people on social media, do that as much as possible. If you love going out and meeting people in person and networking, do that as much as possible. But it's all about just meeting people, creating relationships. That's another tenant, a principle of marketing that's consistent, is it's all about creating relationships with your people. And so, how does that happen? And how does that happen for you? And so I don't, you know, I think a lot of times we think that in order to be successful, we have to be doing these latest and greatest marketing techniques, but that's not true. You can do what feels good and aligned to you and what you want to be good at, and go and do those things. And that's really where you will get traction because you bring that energy of excitement to it, right? I mean, if you're posting on social media and the whole time you're gritting your teeth and cussing under your breath, you know, the energy that you bring to that is not going to be very attractive to your clients. So go where you want to be and you will be successful there.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

And then just I love what you said too about just like being so behind what it is you are selling and your mission and really connecting with your purpose for doing it and your why. And then, like you said, you can't help but but talk about it. And I feel that from you in the posts that you share, the emails that you send out. And one of the things I find so um inspiring and like makes me just like, even though you're my friend, but just from like a professional perspective, just like fall in love with you even more, is like you're you shared about your failures and about not always having it together and like your own mindset things. And as I was kind of writing out notes about the type three, and and and that is one of the biggest um growth piece parts of growth for our type threes is to be okay with being seen as not having it together. Um, typically it's like, oh, I want to be seen as successful and having it all together. Have you gotten any feedback or have you noticed, like by sharing that you don't have it all together, that actually helps you connect with more people?

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I know that people connect to us through our failures and our humanness. They will admire us for our accomplishments, but they will connect with us through our struggles and challenges. And so that, but that has been a real struggle for me. Uh, I was brought up in a very corporate, you know, brought up educationally, I guess. Um, I have my MBA in marketing. So I went and I worked in corporate. And so I was definitely in that corporate um marketing mindset where everything is packaged and curated, and you know, dark blue suits and blue pumps kind of environment, right? And so I and I was very comfortable there and I was always really comfortable, you know, promoting and marketing my clients. But when it was my turn to step out from behind the computer and really start to show myself and who I am in order for me to market my business in a new way, that was very uncomfortable and very scary. And yeah, so I guess my three traits of wanting to be loved and accepted. Uh, I had definitely visceral responses to, you know, that was very traumatic for me to like put myself out there. And um, so I definitely have had to learn to manage my mind around that, that um, and love myself before I expect other people to love me, right? And um, and then just you know, assume I think a lot of it is is imagining that um everyone around me uh wants to hear my ideas, that I have important things to say. And whether that's true or not is completely fine. I'm not for everyone, right? None of us are for everyone. But really, in order to be successful and grow the business I want to grow, I don't have to have everyone. I just have to have a small slice of women that are growing businesses and you know that we're figuring it out together.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

So yeah, that reminds me of Seth Godin. I think it was Seth Godin, it's like a thousand true fans. It's like we think we need to have like millions of followers, and really it's just a thousand true fans, which in a world of seven billion people plus, it's like that's not that crazy to think about. So yeah. Um, well, I know that you're doing you have a like a lot of fun things coming up. Um, very, very three kind of like what's next, future focus, big vision energy here. And um I would love to hear about this training that you have. And then you also have some exciting news, something else coming in November. So would you fill us in on what you have coming up?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yes. So I have on the third Wednesday of uh the month, I have a free training. And it's all about growing your sales, doing what you love. And I go through my complete formula uh that I have developed through my own years in business as well as with my clients of how to grow your sales, no matter where you are in business, whether you're just starting out or a seasoned old timer like myself. Um and so we run that training as a real workshop where we go through this formula, I teach you about it, and then we talk about it. It's run as an informal meeting. So um it's a great place to come to get some free coaching to really dig into this formula and apply it to your business. And uh then I'm also starting a podcast. It's been so long in coming. I'm so excited. So it is the doing business like a woman podcast. And so you can find that on all the places, Apple and um Google and all the places that you find podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

So I love it. That's gonna be so fun, so good. Um, and the workshop is why you're not creating clients and how to fix it now. I love that title. I feel like people are like, please, I need this, I need this. Um, I actually signed up for it for myself. So those of you who are listening, um it will include the link here. Um, but it's on Melissa's website um and her Instagram bio, I think is also where I saw it. So um definitely get signed up for that. And then we'll also add her podcast on here. That's gonna be like such a great resource. Um, is it going to be interview style or is it gonna be you kind of teaching more? What what should we expect with the podcast?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

It's both. I'm gonna be doing interviews as well as solo episodes, doing teaching. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Um, I I'm excited for that. Congratulations on that. That's so fun. Um, I want to get into rapid fire questions in just a minute as we kind of wrap this up. Um, but first I just wanna, because I had mentioned your website, mentioned Instagram. Would you tell us where you are hanging out the most and where we should go to connect with you for these resources?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yeah, so my website is melissamkellog.com, and there's a lot of free resources on there, as well as a link to set up a free coaching consultation with me. Um, and then I spend most of my time on Facebook and Instagram. And so I'm Melissa Kellogg Lewick on Facebook and Melissa M. Kellogg on Instagram. So there you have it.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yes. Um, and like I said, you are always offering just like real life stories and being so open and relatable and like real life. And I just appreciate it and find myself always inspired by you, which is um such a positive thing in general, but like very much a gift of the three to be able to inspire others to reach their highest potentials. So I I love the work that you're doing. Um, and it's yeah, I just appreciate you being so open and sharing that yeah, it hasn't been perfect and I failed. And but like what a blessing, actually, that that those failures over time, I'm sure you've learned something from all of them, um, have led you to where you are now. So something to keep in mind if you're kind of going through the funk. Um what is something right now that you are learning? And these are kind of the rapid fire. And I say rapid fire, they don't have to be rapid answer. I just try not to make a big comment about your answers um so you can get through them. But what's something you're learning? It doesn't have to be work-related, it can be anything. Anything you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Well, I had written down that I wanted to share, which I have already, I think, in the in the episode, but really the importance of my relationship with myself as part of growing your business. You don't think, you know, I didn't learn that as in my MBA program, right? But it's so important. So I uh am learning that. And as far as being a CEO and trusting myself and having that self-compassion and support. Um, and I'm also learning how to play the ukulele. I just started that with my daughter, so it's super fun.

unknown 40:01

So fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Um, okay, I do have a question um to just add on to that. What does being a CEO mean to you? Because sometimes that can feel scary, like, oh, I'm a leader, or like you were saying, I'm an expert. And that feels like kind of uncomfortable. And I've heard actually from people saying, like, gosh, CEO. I don't know like if I'm actually a CEO, but that we might be not thinking of it. We might just be thinking of like the stereotypical CEO. So I'd love to hear like what your definition is.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yeah, that's so funny because yeah, our stereotypical CEO is like a man in a boardroom in a three-piece suit. And it's like, that's not how I picture myself at all. But really, the CEO is technically the highest ranking person in a business. And so I am the highest ranking person in my business. And for me, what it means that is that I am committed to growing my business. I'm committed to taking care of myself as the you know person that fulfills the client um um requests in my business. And I take my business seriously in terms of, you know, that I don't have to feel good or be, you know, inspired to do business. Like I have uh responsibilities to growing my business, to making money in order to support my family. And so I take that seriously. And I think I I kind of contrast it between like thinking of your business as just like a jobby, you know, a job and a hobby. And jobby. That's so good. It's kind of a contrast to that, right? Like where we're just kind of playing around or we only work when we feel good. Um, and that's totally fine if that's the stage of life that you're in. And I was in that stage for like the first 10 years of my business and I still made money. But when you decide you want to grow and scale and make a larger impact and create a financial freedom for yourself and your family, then you step more into that CEO energy. And so that's in the nutshell what I see as so good.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

So good. I love that definition. What about something that you're unlearning?

SPEAKER_00 42:21

So for me, I think this year has been a huge uh unlearning of self-criticism and beating myself up for, you know, maybe I get to the end of the day and I've only checked off three things out of the 10 things on my to-do list, right? And my my number three to-do list.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Right. Very good. Very good, very efficient, very good at lists.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Yeah, normally I would, you know, I guess the old me would just beat myself up about that. Like, oh, I suck, you know, why am I so slow at doing all these things? And that um, I used to think made me better or would make me better the next day. But in reality, it does not make us better. And so we just have to stop it. I just have had to learn to stop that and instead approach myself with compassion and love and understanding. And when we do that, or when I have done that, I get so much further in my um accomplishing, right? And uh I grow. That's you know, having curiosity, approaching it from a place of curiosity of why didn't I get these seven other things done? What was standing in my way? And having curiosity over criticism helps you to grow and become that next better version of yourself. So that's an unlearning that I'm working on.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Such a good one. So we can all take that. Um, and then lastly, you know, there's I we hear all the time, you know, live your best life, your best life. I'm curious, what does that mean to you, Melissa? Like what does living your best life look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 44:07

For me, it's all about presence and um having being able to have presence where I am. So in my work time, I'm completely present for my business and for my clients. And then in my non-work time, I'm completely present for my family, for my children, and you know, paying attention to what they need and the guidance that they need and not thinking like, oh, I should be doing this work thing or that work thing. And then, you know, I have some hobbies. I I now play the ukulele. So I gotta be present for my ukulele. And I also play women's ice hockey. So when I'm at with my team, I want to be present, you know, on the ice and doing my best um with my team and for my team. So that's really for me, living my best life.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

I that's so good. And you know, we can all take that on, but again, just going back to that type three energy. And also um, there's a grouping on the Enneagram that has to do with um your time orient, your orientation to time. And for threes and sevens and eights, they're very future focused, always thinking what's next, which can be beautiful because they are the visionaries, um you know, planning and and seeing the possibilities of life, but also it's we never get there because we're always looking ahead. And so it really is such um the the the work or the um a gift to give ourselves to do this, what you're talking about, trying to be more present in the moment and enjoy your life and not be so like what is next. And that's great to have that, but I also see because I'm there, I'm I'm there too, Melissa. Like I need to do more present, I need to be more present too. So I I love hearing that. But for those of you who can really relate to to the three or or just kind of that what's next energy, like what a great reminder um to just live in that whatever you're doing and put your attention to that. So thank you for that. Um, as we wrap up, um, is there anything else that you would like to share that I haven't asked about? Whether it is, you know, learning from your failures, being in the present moment, um, scaling, visibility, anything that we have talked about that you would like to share just to kind of help consider this episode complete?

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Yeah, I just talking about being present. I think um, you know, like you said, I'm very future focused. And so it's been a real skill for me to have to learn to enjoy the journey of growing a business today, like not wait for happiness someday. Like when I earn this amount of money, then I'll be happy, or when I am living in this house or whatever, then I'll be happy. But thinking about how we can have that joy and that peace and that sufficiency where we are in our business, in our lives right now, today. And so, and that is created from the inside out. And so we that's a decision we get to make. And so that really has been a game changer for me as well. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Well, I I appreciate you so much. I appreciate you being here, all that you shared. And I know that our listeners, regardless of what your Enneagram type is, I know are going to be able to relate to your story and um get so much from all that you shared. So please connect with Melissa, let her know that you heard this and anything that you got from it. I know that she would just love to hear from you. Um, and uh with that, Melissa, thank you so much for being here. And uh I look forward to listening to the new podcast. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

This has been so fun, Sarah.