SPEAKER_00 0:00

Inside this interview episode, our first one of 2022, I get to interview Leslie Lyons. Leslie is a business strategist, a sales coach, a soul whisperer, and a speaker. And she says that every day she gets to help brick and mortar businesses look your feminine genius in the eye without blinking and use it to take on the world like a girl on fire. Oh my God, I love that. In other words, she helps women see the best and sometimes the worst parts of yourself so that you can sell in a way that comes naturally, find your true leadership style, and build a soul-driven marketing strategy that brings all the dream customers to the yard. Because she says that's how legacies, million-dollar ventures, and early retirements are made. And she is an advocate of being too much. You're allowed to be too much. You're allowed to speak your mind. And so, no surprise that Leslie most identifies with an Enneagram type A. And so in this episode, you'll hear what most resonates with her personally and some of her expertise that she shares with us, also harnessing our sales superpowers, our personality, the best and like she said, the worst of us to become really a successful business owner that not just in success for money, with money necessarily, but also something that continues to light us up where we're not burnt out. So without further ado, I'm excited and honored to introduce Leslie Lyons. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Welcome back to another episode of the Enneagram MBA podcast. Today is going to be a really fun episode, as always, though. I have Leslie Lyons. She is an embodied sales and leadership expert. So we'll get more into what exactly that is. And she is joining us today as an Enneagram Type 8 wing seven. And we'll get into all of that stuff. But before we do, let's welcome her on. Welcome, Leslie. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Sarah, I'm super stoked to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Thank you for that. I so appreciate it. Instagram brought us together. I always um, you know, it gets a bad rap sometimes. Social media does, I know, but I have just met so many amazing people. And so I'm grateful for however it happened. I kind of forget, but I I think I stumbled on your profile. But I'm I'm grateful that I did. And I love what you are doing in your work. And I love how you yourself are using the Enneagram and that. So we'll get we'll get into that. But I always like to start off with the question about your type and how you realized that Enneagram type A in your situation was the the one that that most resonated with you.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Okay, awesome. Well, it's funny, and once I got deeper into the Enneagram world, so I haven't been around in using the Enneagram personally or in business very long. Personally, it's been about four years, and business has been about a year. And so I remember, and I found this to be the case once I got around other eights and other teachers of the Enneagram. My road to the Enneagram was very similar to other eights. So if you're an eight and you're listening to this, you'll probably be like, mm-hmm. At first I thought it was complete bullshit. First of all, is this a family-friendly show because I cuss?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It's okay. We put a little E, we put a little E next to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I just thought about it as I said it out my mouth, right? But I was just like, what is this? Ain't nobody got a time for this. What is this about? I had no interest in it at all, didn't think it was real, to be candid with you. The person who brought it to me was somebody who I consider light and airy, um, in terms of her personality and energy. And so I was just like, eh, no. Well, fast forward to about three months later, someone who I respected a lot was just talking about how the Enneagram had changed the dynamics in her family life. And I was like, oh, this Enneagram thing, I remember this. Light and fairy told me about this, but now here deep and grounded, saying that it actually made a change in her life. I was like, let me go back and actually take the test. So I took the test, and unlike other numbers where people are always like, especially if you're doing a traditional typing session where there is no test, and they're trying to get to this, like the one that causes a little bit of like you recoil a little bit, like that's probably you. Not with eights. Eights, we're like, oh yeah, that sounds good. Is there a problem with any of these things you just listed? This all sounds amazing to me. And so that was my initial reaction. Like, this is great, this is awesome. What's this shadow stuff? What's this unintegrated, unhealthy, all the terms? I'm like, this is amazing. And so, but I had I felt seen in a way that I had not. So immediately, because I am a coach, I got a coach, I got an Enneagram coach. And so she walked me through the strengths, the shadows, what it looks like to be integrated, to be disintegrated or unintegrated, whichever the word is. Yeah. Um but not to be, I don't like to use healthy and unhealthy just because of how that might make people feel around mental health, right? But integrated and not integrated. Um, this is what you look like. And so when she started to peel back and started to point out some of the things about how I defend myself, you know, like to deny things and that sort of thing, that's when shit got real. You're like, oh, okay, maybe this isn't also great. So that started my journey. Um, I just can't say enough. I really do believe, and I am an assessment junkie. So if there's an assessment, I'm taking it. Like, bring up one. I've probably taken it. If I haven't, I'm going to take it as soon as we get off the call. Like, I love assessments. But when it comes to transformation, I believe the Enneagram is so such a practical tool for growth. Whereas, like something like human design, which I'm really into now, you cannot pick up a report or a book and know what the F to do with a human design. You will not know. You have to have a coach, you have to have someone walk you through it. With the Enneagram, you could get enough information seriously from even the worst test. If it was your true type, you could get enough information to start growing that day.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah. And you're right, the the transformation. I mean, you could, I've heard you could use it for information, you can use it for entertainment, or you can use it for transformation. And it's just kind of how deep, yeah, how deep you want to go. Because there's a lot of entertaining memes and pictures out there. Um, so I want to, so we had a type eight panel in our very first um one of our very first podcast episodes on the Enneagram MBA podcast. So you're the first individual type eight that we've had. And so I want to hear, and I would love just to talk for a moment about being a woman as a type eight, because what I have found, and I don't know, I would love to hear your experience and your opinions on this, is that there's like type two and type eight have some gender nuances in that type twos, it's like the helper. And it that's kind of like how women feel like they should be, especially a lot of women who are um in the church and kind of feel like, well, we should be givers, we should be caretakers. And that just may not fit for you, but it feels like, oh, I should be this. And then on the flip side, um, type eight women can get kind of, I don't want to say a bad rap, but it's like the boss. And it's like, oh, a man, it's like, oh yeah, I'm I'm the boss. But for a woman who has that energy, it's we all kind of know how that's perceived. So how do you see? I guess how has understanding the the type eight qualities helped you maybe step into that or kind of navigate around some of the the negative stereotypes with that energy?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah. So I always tell people that the Enneagram, especially you brought up the church context, um, as the Enneagram has come more into Christian spaces, actually being brought up in women's groups and Bible studies and that sort of thing. I think the Christian perspective on the Enneagram is a unique one as well. But there is definitely in society, so church society especially, but society in general, um a personality type that women ascribe to if they want to be light, if they want to be favored, um, and even sometimes protected, to be quite candid. Um, and AIDS women typically don't fall into that. Um, the more demure, um helper, you know, kind of play the background until asked kind of a thing. AIDS don't play that very well in church settings, and so I had a tough time with coming to grips with the fact that I would be perceived as angry or as opposed to passionate, that my energy would be very big, much larger than I think it is. And so the Enneagram gave me the language for that. A lot of us lack language for how we feel and how um we're perceived in the world, and so the Enneagram gave me the language to be like, yeah, people perceive your passion as anger, and you're angry about everything. Like, I don't never forget when I first started therapy many moons ago, when they would ask, Well, how do you feel about that? My response would be, I'm angry about it. How'd you feel about your mom dying? Well, I'm angry about that, you know. It's like, oh, there's a whole other range of emotions other than happy and anger. I'm like, what? So my therapist had to bring out a feelings chart. Like, like, were you angry or did you feel embarrassed? Were you angry or did you feel lonely? Were you angry or did you feel shame? Like, what other emotions did you feel that you just lump into the bucket of anger? So for me, knowing that people perceive me as angry is a revelation in and of itself. I'm noticing that your energy is much bigger than what you think. So even when you tone it down, it's still larger than what most people expect. And just being aware of that, it's helped me kind of make sure I'm not overwhelming. Okay. So I don't tone down, I never tone down, but I am very much so aware of body language, like it's made me more perceptive of how are people feeling about the energy that you're bringing. Before I wouldn't have never even noticed the person recoiling or kind of shrinking or pulling back, or I would have never noticed that. I'm sensitive to those things now. I think for eight women in particular, if you can be sensitive to the energy that you bring to the room, that could take away some of the bad rap around it, to be candid. If you could speak, use your honesty, your thirst for honesty, your thirst for truth to just say the thing that's in the room, being like, oh man, I just noticed that your body language changed, Sarah. I was probably all up in your face, girl. I didn't mean to do that. I didn't mean to do that. I'm not angry or notice that people are looking like, yo, y'all probably think I'm mad right now. I'm not. This is just how I talk. I'm just really loud. That I would have never done that anyway. I would have never had that ability without the tools of the Enneagram.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Leslie, that's so good. That is so good. Okay, so you're talking about um getting in touch and recognizing other people's feelings. And sometimes in that disintegration or unintegrated, however we say it, range, eights can, like you were kind of saying, maybe like steamroll over or just not be pay attention because they are so focused on going far, going fast, kind of what's next. And that kind of feels like it might be getting in the inner in the way. And so I love that you were just saying like the work that you've noticed and like that growth piece for you. And I think that's something eights and and several other numbers can can take into consideration to like kind of grow ourselves, being more aware of how we're perceived, because there is that self-awareness where we see ourselves, and then it's also understanding how others see us. So it's both of those things. Um you talked about kind of you know that intuitiveness, being more paying more attention. Um, that has some two energy, which is where those eights go in health. Um, do you see yourself? Because I would say like you're very aware, you come across as a very self-aware person growing continuously working on yourself. I see your social media posts and what you're sharing. Um, how else do you see the type two energy kind of showing up in the work that you do, the leader that you are to be more effective?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah. All people, but especially AIDS, need to grow in empathy. It is the gateway to connection with people. And AIDS struggle with it. There's a couple other numbers who struggle with it too, but AIDS definitely struggle with accessing empathy for people because it's kind of like, you know, when you see those memes, speaking of memes, where it's like, put your hair in a bun, put out some leak, lipstick, and go handle shit, kind of a thing. You don't have time for this. You don't have time to cry. I'm gonna cry and boss up kind of a thing, right? Um, that energy to be able to access and actually say, no, I'm gonna sit with the discomfort of emotions, other people's emotions, put myself in their shoes, and really feel what they're feeling is how I access my two. It is very much so that stopping, the breathing, the just take a moment to feel. Can I feel you as opposed to just see you? And so that's how I use it most often is just to be like to really feel a person.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, yeah. And that empathy and understanding again, just yeah, how other what others might be going through.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Um, and to feel more than anger, yeah, and also not automatically ascribe a person as weak.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah, oh so good. Let's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Because they're vulnerable enough to share how they're really feeling when you're disintegrated, unintegrated, when you're not living in your fullness, yeah, it's very easy for an eight to disregard a person. And if you're very emotional because we're running away from our emotions, it makes us very uncomfortable. And because we're uncomfortable, we'll say you're weak. And when we think you're weak and we're not in a healthy mental space, the very thing that gets us going, which is to protect the weak, to protect the marginalized, we will ostracize that because it's making me feel something, and I don't want to feel that. It's making me feel some vulnerability. And I, if you're not comfortable with that feeling, you will run away from the thing that God is actually calling you to help.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

That's such great insight about the vulnerability. Like they are, you know, eights are called the protectors in some places, and that is interesting. Um, protecting the weak, and then kind of seeing that and ostracizing that very interesting insight. Um, some of the strengths that I don't say envy, but I just I guess I really appreciate about the type eight is the decisiveness, the directness, this um the the the almost like the commanding of present, like I'm gonna command your attention. And um, I heard somebody say, I forget where it was, and I have no idea how they would know this, but they were saying that um Frank Sinatra was a type eight, and his energy was so big that you could feel him come into the room like five minutes before he entered the room, which I thought was like, oh my gosh, what a great analogy. Um, but we have that, and so um, especially again, kind of women in in leadership roles in the workplace, having our own business or taking on responsibility in our in our careers and in the uh for another company. Um those are great qualities to have. And and sometimes um we kind of doubt our abilities or we feel like we're not good enough yet. We have like all these stories, but anytime I think about those for myself, because I I struggle with that too. Like, oh, am I ready to say something or is this good enough? Or, you know, I'm like, okay, I gotta channel that eight-wing of mine. I gotta be direct, this isn't working, I gotta have an uncomfortable conversation. Um, what advice? Because I'm assuming that you work with all kinds of people who don't all have the same energy as you, what advice do you have for how we can develop some of that directness and decisiveness and kind of that commanding, um, not attention, but just um authority kind of um when we need to step up and say something? Because there's times where we don't, it's we can hang back, but there are times we need to step up. How how are some ways that you would would recommend that we get into that space?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Here's a question I'll ask.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Well, maybe it won't be a question, but I'll just say this. Do you feel most confident when you're being your authentic self?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, and I I think that it's like understanding what that authentic self is, right? So there's the key to your voice.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

That's the key to your strength. And strength doesn't have to be loud and gregarious, strength can be quiet and still and sure footed and grounded. It can be loud and gregarious, it can be a mix of both, it can be playful and light. Whatever your personality is, strength is a feeling, strength is an energy. And so I think a lot of times, especially woman folk, we start to look outward, like, well, I gotta show up like this, I gotta take a power pose, I've got to do these sorts of things. Whereas I think those things are helpful. What I think is more helpful is you being completely confident in who you are and your gifting and the fact that you are worthy to stand in whatever room you're in. So, with that energy, it doesn't really matter what your personality is, it's I'm being true to my design. And when I'm true to my design, couple that with something that I care about, you will naturally speak up. I tell women that we advocate for our work, that's what we do. We don't sell, I advocate for my work, and think about that. No matter who you are, especially because I really deal with women, is what I deal with. I don't typically like every now and then somebody will come in, but it's 95% are women, and I'm just like, if you could just think about your natural ability to advocate, like if you have. A cat, a kid, a dog, something happens. You go into mama bear mode, and you could be the meekest, quietest, five introverted woman in the world. You will defend, you will stand up for, you will advocate for your child. Like that's going to happen. That's how I think about our ideas. That's how I think about our businesses. That's how I think about our purpose. So when you're the fullest version of yourself, you will advocate naturally. So when people ask me, how do I get more of that? I say, lean into more of who you are and what you care about. And it's a natural outpouring. Yes, and you know, you've heard, I forget who says it, even if your voice shakes speak. It's kind of that. When you really feel because we're talking about business and leadership now specifically, if you really believe in what you offer to the world, the product or the service, and the people who you do it alongside of, it will come more naturally. And yeah, we can practice speaking up, but I don't focus on that. I'm like, be more of who you are. You don't have to beg people. Like if you had a favorite sushi restaurant, Sarah, you'd be telling me all about it, and you tell me what I need to order, and your favorite waiter, and you wouldn't have to be like, okay, I'm getting ready to tell her about sushi. Let me make sure. Okay. No, you'd be like, oh yeah, the sushi place is right. Oh, so good. Because you're passionate about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what I would say. Oh, that's so good. And so I guess it is taking the time to understand who you are, like what that authentic self is, and understanding, yeah, what do are the things that get you going? Because sometimes I have found when talking with people, it's like, what do you want? It's like, gosh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna have to, I don't, I don't know. I'm gonna think about it. Um, and then I love what you're saying. Like when you have clarity on those things, it's like the rest just kind of happens by automatically. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

I want to I want to add something to that series.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah, I'd love that.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

So my brick and mortar business, I don't know if you know this or not, is I own two pole dance studios here in Chicago. That is what my brick and mortar businesses are. And one of the main things that we work on with women is expressing desire. So many women lack the ability to express what they want. People think about pole dancing, they think sexy and da-da-da-da-da. And that's a part of it, but it's such a small part of the work. We literally start out with helping women to reclaim and step in the power of their voice and their desires. Because if you cannot articulate what you want, there's a 90% chance you're not gonna get it. So speaking your desires is not uncommon for a woman to say, I don't know. Because a lot of times when you say what you want and people don't want to give it to you, you're punished for it. So every time that happens, it chinks away at your confidence, it chinks away at your at your ability to stand. And you gotta reclaim that. It doesn't matter what number you are, being able to speak that, this is what I want, is such a game changer for women. So when you said that, I know that's a rabbit hole, but I was just like, that is a thing that is part of my life work, is helping women to stand in the authority of their voice. It matters. Another part of the work that I do on the volunteer side is I work with sex trafficking organizations here in Chicago. And a lot of it is funding it, writing checks for it, but other parts of it is helping women to get the supplies and things they need. Um, we go to strip clubs from time to time to just kind of let women know that there is options out here and that sort of thing, and just to be an ear. And a lot of that work, almost every woman, kid you not, so yes, there's always somebody who's not in this boat, but 95% of the women that are in those situations had some type of abuse when they were younger. And so your voice when you're a little girl, I often think about my nieces are loud and gregarious, and I don't think they're all eights. I don't. But what they are are being raised around women who value voice. So you will be hard pressed to do something to one of my nieces and them not speak up. Voice matters. So I always tell women if you thought your voice was small, and if Lord forbid you found yourself in a situation where you were harmed, even more so, getting the power of your voice back so that the little girl that's watching you, whether it's your daughter, a niece, or neighbor, knows that it's okay for them to speak up. Voice is super important. So sorry. Sidebar.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

No, that was so that's so good. I mean, that's really the the point of all of this. Um, it's not just so that we can know ourselves and you know, know the ins and outs of our personality and do nothing with that. It's so that we can influence others, get a message out, share our voice, you know, whatever it is, and and honestly, you know, impact others, impact the world, kind of create that ripple effect. So that's I was very on topic, and I'm so glad that you shared that. Definitely not a rabbit hole. Um, I didn't know so. I didn't know that they were pole dancing studios. I used to live in Chicago and I go back all the time. What is it called?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Oh, we have two. Um, one is called Bombshell. It's on the South Side, it's in Beverly. So it's Chicago. It's in the Beverly area. And then four months ago, I opened a second brand called Smolder and it's in the South Loop.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Oh, okay. Yeah. South Loop. Okay. My I have a friend that lives in River North, so I usually stay with her. Yeah. Now that's a sidebar. But anybody else who might be interested. Um, so I want to get into the work that you do a little bit, specifically around sales and leadership. I love following you and taking in your content over on Instagram. And I know that you do so much more than just that. Um, but first I want to start with you say um embodied sales and leadership coach. What does that mean, what does that mean exactly?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah, great question. So embodied means literally being in your body. When we think about coaching, and I hate to use masculine and feminine, especially as an eight. That's probably why it bothers me because people be like, oh, you have these masculine traits. I'm like, oh no, I am a woman. There's nothing about me that aspires to be like a man. Nothing. Okay. So, but structured and more free-falling, right? So more structured ways of doing things are more cerebral. It's based off of logic. And can I, you know, draw the T and put the pros and the cons and goal setting, very linear, very structured. There's the goal, here are the steps to get to it. That is a very structured way that is very cerebral. It keeps you in your head a lot. Whereas, and our heads are liars. You can find evidence for anything. Um, you know, it's kind of like when you get a new car and suddenly you see that everybody has the new car, that same car as you, because your awareness has now been heightened around that car. You look for evidence to firm up what you believe and see and know. So your head can be a place if you just live and make decisions strictly from that place that can keep you frustrated. But your body never lies. Your body knows the truth. And we have to get more in touch with, and again, this is a societal thing for women. If you feel like you can't trust your body, there's a system that has been built up to make you doubt that. Oh, you're too emotional, Sarah. This isn't business, this isn't personal, it's business.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

You know, little, even little statements like that chip away at the armor, it chips away at your confidence, it chips away. So, my goal is to help women reconnect to their inner knowing, their intuition, their spirit, the thing that gives you a clean yes or a clean no. So, as opposed to coming up even like with something that's goal setting, we're at the end of the year, we're looking at our numbers. As a business owner who runs a business that's over a half a million dollars, I have to look at my numbers. That is a real thing. I have to, and it has to be a structured way. I have to forecast. We got to do all the things to make sure that the bills are paid and my people are taken care of. That has to happen. But how do I set my goals? Do I sit in the room and just look at the numbers and let them determine? Or do I actually look and stop and breathe inward and say, what type of impact do you want to have in the world next year? And how would you feel when you accomplish that? When you make that type of impact, how would you feel? Because a bunch of money in the bank account doesn't make you feel any better necessarily. Impact and purpose is what drives you. So even our approach to goal setting is an embodied one. It's not just my physical being, it's my spiritual being, it's my emotional being, it's a full body goal. And so many women come like, how do I make better decisions? My answer is beef up your intuition. We got to exercise that muscle. And your intuitive muscle, your inner knowing muscle is very similar to a bicep. If you do a curl, even without a weight, your bicep would get stronger. Because you're working that muscle. You have to work your spiritual muscles, you have to work your intuitive muscles in the same way so that you can trust yourself again. That's the work of embodiment.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Okay, and can I just say, and I know not everybody fits into a box, and the Enneagram isn't everything, but what a perfect like energy for you to have to be teaching this as a type eight, somebody who's like in their body with that intuition that kind of tends to lead with their gut instinct. And as you were talking, Leslie, I was thinking, oh, that's me. Because as a seven, I'm in my head. Our five, six, and sevens are in the head. We have a lot of fear, anxiety, doubt. And so I'm like, oh my gosh, I need, yes, Leslie, I need this. This is me. Um and again, it doesn't, you know, you don't have to be one of those types, but it, I love what you're saying because we have all, you know, emotions, um, thinking, our gut instinct, we have that, but it is just like you were saying, kind of tapping into that. And oh my gosh, thinking about goals, um instead of just like the list, because that's what I do, like and that's my work right now is like, how can I stop? I I need to get out of my head. I need to get so far out of my head, I get so into my head, it makes me dizzy because I just spin and spin and spin in my head. I just was actually talking to a friend two days ago, and I'm like, oh, I'm spiraling and I know it. Um, and so and just like that kind of like, what's the impact that you're trying to make? Not what's the right thing to do or what are you supposed to do, but it's like, how do you want to feel? What's that impact? Um, that's something I'm taking away with me. Um, I okay, so I wanted to go back to and ask, um you had mentioned that you have coached at this point over a hundred women.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

What are, I'm just curious to know, like, what are some of the biggest, I don't know if you how you want to take this, but if it's the biggest lessons or a haws or like common common themes you see that you tend to focus on with your work. But after you've done um, you know, had those many connections and helped that many women, I would love to hear like a key takeaway, or if it's two or three key takeaways that we can maybe learn from your experience working with all of those women.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah. So most women come to me because of how I marketed myself. So they're responding to what I put out. Um, and so that's why I've changed it up a little bit, is because they want to increase their revenue. Selling is my jam. I love selling because I don't look at selling as selling, I look at it as advocating. I can't, I'm not a person who can sell water to a whale. That is not me. I have to believe very strongly in what I'm selling, and so part of that is I feel very in alignment with whatever I'm selling. So selling comes very natural to me. I'm also a natural storyteller. So I love telling stories. So I'm gonna actually tell a story about women who typically come to me. So one of my clients doing amazing, she's in her fifth year of business, revenue-wise, she's knocking it out the park. I mean, like when I look back to where I was at five years into business, I was nowhere near where this woman is. She's doing amazing stuff. But when she came to me, she was like, Yeah, and I I got some aggressive goals. I want to double my revenue. I want to get da-da-da-da-da. And I'm like, that's what's up. Yeah, you absolutely have the energy to do that. So, what stopped you? Why haven't we gotten there yet? And what we found out was that she had a tough time replicating herself. Now, she happens to be an eight as well. I do attract a lot of eight women, um, even if they don't know anything about the Enneagram. Like she knew nothing about the Enneagram. But in order to work with me, we have to type you. So yeah, we have to type you. It's a part of the process. So she had all this energy, and she's like, but every time I step away from my business, sales go down. Every time I step away from my business, something catastrophic happens in the business structure. My people can't seem to carry this business if I'm not there. So my favorite thing to say is, oh, well, you don't really have a sales problem. You don't need more sales strategy, you have a leadership problem. We've got some work to do around how you lead. You already know how to sell, you've made money. And most women who work with me, they're exhausted by their business, to be quite candid. She was burnt out because you can't be the visionary and the integrator. You can't be the visionary and do all the things. Now, when you're first starting out, you are you're the janitor to the CEO. Like you're all the things. But as once you start making $250,000 a year and up, if you're still playing all those roles, we've got a problem. And so she desperately, like many women, wanted to scale, but lacked the interpersonal and leadership skills to infuse her values into her space. So that's the first thing we work on is what are the things that you care about that make you so good at selling? It's not just because you're the person, because most people think you're the founder of this. You started the Enneagram MBA, no one knows it better than you. You birthed this, this is why you do so well at it. No, no, it's the value that it represents, it's what it stands for and the impact you want to make in the world. That is transferable. Yo, like that is transferable. You just need a system to transfer your values to your people. You can't transfer things that you don't know and can't communicate, which is where we started in the beginning. So the first part of it is the self-awareness and the self-discovery that the Enneagram so eloquently does. You get very acquainted with your genetically coded values and purpose. Then we take that and we say which of those values and purpose are appropriate for the business that I'm running? Because every value I have is appropriate for the container that you're holding in your business. What are those top three guiding values? Some people call them core values. I call them guiding values. Same difference, right? Now that we know those things and we know what they are, how do you get your team on board with those three to five guiding values? Meaning, how do you hire people who line up with those three to five values? Once you get them hired, how do you manage them to those three or five values? How do you reward people to those three and five values? So, how do you build a culture that flourishes? It's a mission-based culture. And then step three, now we can get to the bag, as the kids say. Now we can get to the money. Once you know who you are, you have a team that knows who they are and how they fit into the story so they know their story within the story, right? Because every brand has a story. But as a leader, you have to help your people find their story in the story. If it's going to be authentic, if it's going to be impactful. So now we've got a culture that's flourishing. Now let's get to the selling. And we sell in a way that attracts people that line up with guess what? Those three to five guiding values. So now you're serving people who want what you want. That's the beautiful thing. That's why there could be a hundred pole dance studios in Chicago. If we're all lined up with who we are, there's enough business for everybody. Where it becomes, you know, there's like, oh, blue ocean, I don't want to be in the red ocean, and da-da-da-da. I'm like, well, if you don't know who you are, you can never communicate who you are. And you can't communicate who you are if you don't have the vocabulary, which is where the Enneagram comes in, so that you really can operate in a space where there is no competition. So it goes from a, oh, there's no competition, Sarah, because no one can be you. Well, if you don't know who the hell you are and you can't communicate it, yeah, there can be a lot of Sarah's. There can be a lot of Leslie's. But when we are really rooted in who we are, then no. Because there's one God-given purpose for you, there's one thing that you were put here to do, and nobody else can do that, but you gotta find out what that is, and then you gotta be able to communicate and make it attractive to other people, you gotta advocate for that thing, so yeah, so that's that's the process. So that's kind of the three steps. Yeah, who are your people? How do we attract those people who want what you want? So get to know who you are, invest in your team, help them find their story in your story. And then third, let's take that story to the masses. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

You know, as you were talking up, my brother came to mind. He's a type eight, and um he he's been the only uh man on the podcast so far. He was on that type eight panel. Um, but he really struggled exactly with what you were saying. He um had a ton of passion, he had all this energy, he was um going far and fast, and he was starting to not not thinking about closing it down or anything like that, but he was definitely getting burnt out. And anytime that He would leave. Yeah, he felt like things would would fall. And um, he had a realization and had to get some support to help him learn to delegate and let go um and trust people. But I I I love what you're saying about helping your people find their story and your story to kind of buy in and like become part of that bigger story. I've never heard it put like that or have thought about it like that. And I think that's gold for any for any leader. Oh, so good. Um, okay, so as we start to wrap up, I I mean we could yeah, I feel like there's so many more things I want to ask. I got a whole notebook full of notes already. Um, but I'd love to just kind of end with oh, actually, I'm sorry, there's one question, one more um question that I want to ask you before we get into rapid fire. And that was something that you had shared recently on real wealth. And I loved, absolutely loved what you said. And I really feel passionate. I'm not a financial advisor, I'm not a money teacher or anything, but I do believe that you know, as women can build wealth, so many options, your options open, you have freedom, you have bigger platforms, and you're you have the ability to share your voice, to share your mission, to work on your projects, whatever it is. Money is a huge part of that. And like you were saying, you give to these organizations. So money is a very near and dear thing, um, concept um in kind of developing your voice. But I wanted to talk to you about like what did you mean by real wealth? Like, how do we get it wrong, maybe in thinking about wealth? And then what was your take on that?

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah. So that post is probably one of my most vulnerable posts, to be candid, um, as it shows my growth because the thing that an eight does not want to do, you have an eight brother, we don't want to rest. No, that is not something that we run and gravitate to. If given first option, rest is probably not in the top three when I'm not integrated, and so that's been one of the biggest growth points for me. And it also was birthed from working with these burnt-out women, financially wealthy, multiple six figures, well on their way to seven figures, financially wealthy, but emotionally bankrupt. Okay, and that is, I think, the biggest crisis in entrepreneurship right now, with women CEOs in particular, is everywhere you go, I call it the you know, the girl boss phenomenon phenomenon where everybody's bossing up, everybody's booked and busy, everybody's, you know, making all this money. Go get that bad girl. You got to do it, get up, wash your face, you know, kind of whatever, whatever adage you want to pull from it. But the problem is the pursuit of money is not satisfying. Money makes a terrible god, and the pursuit of that will rob you of so much more. So, yes, we do need money. The Bible also says money answers all things, like the kingdom needs money. That's the truth. So you do need to make money, however, you need rest. You can't rest, you can't rest when you are in a state of anxiety. You can't rest when and heal. Like, I remember things seriously, like here's a great example. I had been um, I had my gallbladder taken out, and I had a workshop at the studio like a week after, and I was determined that I was gonna go in there, do that workshop, and I literally almost passed out in the workshop because I wouldn't rest to let my body heal, like I wouldn't do it, and so I talk about the concept of sustained rest. So I'm not talking about taking a weekend, I'm not talking about, oh yeah, we went to Cabo for a week, but you checked your phone the entire time. You know, you were checking your emails, sneaking in the bathroom. Not talking about me. This is how I used to rest and will rest now. Be in the bathroom, checking email. That's not resting. When was the last time that you were able to completely unplug and just be present with yourself and whoever else you may be with? Because it may just be yourself. So sustain wealth, sustain rest is a true form of wealth. Really wealthy people have time. Yes. If you don't have time but have a lot of money, that is a surefire way to anxiety veal. So on Monday, I'm gonna have a hysterectomy. I'm gonna be unplugged for a month. I'm not gonna do anything I don't want to do. That is wealth. Can you go away for a month and know that you're still gonna have income? Are you able to have the peace of saying, I'm done and I'm checked out? That's real wealth. Because if you cannot do those things, we got some stuff we need to work on, and that's okay. Because someone had to work on it with me, right? To get to that point, and I still don't do it perfectly. Because when you love what you do, when you advocate for your work, you love it, it's easy to be consumed with it, but that's why we have to look for harmony in our lives. So when I talk about sustained rest, it's really can you unplug if you want to or if you need to? Can you do that? And unfortunately, for a lot of female entrepreneurs, they can't because when they step away, and thank you for bringing up your brother, it's not just a female thing. If the business is built off of you and your story, your business, your business can become a prison. And the thing that once gave you so much energy, so much passion, so much purpose, is now burning down everything around you. I told I told one of my class the other day, you ever seen little shop of horrors? And the plant is in there, it's like, feed me, Seymour. And every time he's feeding it, it's getting bigger and bigger until it's ready to eat him. That's what your business can be like. Always like, feed me, Seymour. There's more. I'm hungry. Feed me again until there's nothing left, and then it eats you. I'm not trying to live that life, and I don't want any woman who the Lord sends in my path to live that type of life. I want us to be wealthy health-wise. I want us to be wealthy money-wise, and I want us to be rich in relationships.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Oh gosh, what a great way to end this. Um, I love that I'm gonna quote that. Um, really, really good. And just kind of shifting our our um mindset on what is wealthy, what is rich, what is success. So I think you nailed it. Um, real quick before we jump off, because I know you got to head into a client call. There's a couple of questions I ask every um guest on here. I'm just gonna ask these rapid fire, let you answer. Um, Leslie, what is something that you are currently unlearning?

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Unlearning. Stop being so judgmental. That is a constant, have to keep that in front of me every day. I don't think I'm ever gonna arrive at that. Um, stop being so judgmental. I am constantly fostering curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Now we just you kind of nailed this one already. Um, if there's anything else you want to add to it, please do. And if you want to say refer to above, well, we can do that. But you we hear all this talk about living your best life, your fullest self, your highest self. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Being in alignment with your purpose. What is the thing? And here's another thing, too, because I work a lot around entrepreneurial energetics, is what I call it. Like, how do you keep the energy to keep the thing going? It is so frustrating for women, especially when you've built a business to feel like because I also work with women who are transitioning out, so they're trying to sell their business or they're transitioning it, or they're truly the CEO of the business. There's some type of transition in the scaling process of it, and they get so worried about what am I gonna do next? Here comes the frustration, here comes the anger, here comes the bitterness, and you can feel all of these things in your business, and a lot of women don't talk about this type of stuff, but in my containers, we do because it's real, and they're just like, How do I move on? If you could take this, your purpose is your purpose, your business is just a container. Wear the container loosely, wear the container loosely. If you become purpose-driven and purpose-focused, the container doesn't matter. And tell people this before I owned a pole dance studio, I was doing full-time ministry, was my last job. Okay, so I had been in sales, I've been in HR, I've I've done the corporate thing, but my last job was I left the corporate world to go and be a minister to girls and women at a mega church outside of Chicago. My purpose then was helping women stand in their power and reclaim their voice. I then started swinging around a pole. My purpose then, helping women stand in their power and reclaim their voice. Now I'm a sales and leadership coach. My purpose is helping women stand in their power and reclaim their voice. Three very different containers, same purpose. Such freedom in that, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Yes. So, and that is that causes so much anxiety. What's my purpose? I gotta find my purpose. But oh, I love how you said that. I feel like that's a story that we got to hear at some point, how you went from ministry to pole dancing. Um, if you haven't already posted about that or told that, well, I should. But usually okay, I'm gonna look for that. Um, and then last rapid fire question. We have a lot of um book enthusiasts. We love a good personal development book. What is a book that has transformed your life or had an impact on the way that you think?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Yeah, Dare to Lead, Brene Brown, Auntie Brene. Are we all waiting on Baited Breath for the Atlas book? Are we all like waiting?

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Is it I follow her on LinkedIn? I think, yeah, yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

But Dare to Lead, I love that book. I love that book. And again, see, here's somebody else, just even looking at someone famous, Brene. When Brene first came out, her thing was about shame, right? Like that was her thing, but her purpose was always about helping people reclaim their fullest self. That's a huge part of her work. So she's gone from being a shame researcher to someone who's an authority in leadership, to now she's getting ready to talk about relationships. Like, look at all the iterations that she's gone through by being true to the thing that she knows best. The container is different, and each of those containers were a different book, a different program. That woman's rich, you know, and so we all can be Brene.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

We got a lot of Brene found fans around here, so we're gonna love that. And then final, yeah, Auntie. I love it. I love it. And then final question, Leslie. Where can we find you? Where can we get connected with you? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

So LinkedIn, Instagram are the two places I hang out, and it's Leslie, L E S L I E, Diaz and David Lyons, L-Y-O-N-S.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Well, this has been so good. I've gotten so much out of it. I know when this comes out um next year, listeners are gonna get so much out of it. I appreciate you so much, Leslie, all that you shared. And uh I'm looking forward to staying connected with you over on the social media.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Well, Sarah, thank you. And thank you for all the work you're doing around helping people realize how the Enneagram can help them grow their business. Like we need more voices talking about that. We need female voices in the business space.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Absolutely, absolutely. Oh, and maybe maybe I'll get to meet you one day in person on one of my Chicago visits. Yes, in one of your studios. So I'm gonna put that on my wish list.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Well, you're doing worthy work, so thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

I appreciate that. And back at you, and uh, we'll see you soon. Thanks, Leslie.