SPEAKER_00 0:00

Have you ever had this idea too where you just dream of selling everything, simplifying your life, buying a camper, and living this RV lifestyle? That was me at the end of 2020. I was really, really serious about it. And if that happens to be you too, I know that we're not alone because when I went on this search and this had this idea, I joined all the Facebook groups. And there's thousands and thousands of people living this life and probably thousands and thousands more who you know are interested in it. So we're not alone. It was really interesting too because when I was getting into some of these groups, there were several single mom RV lifestyle groups where they talked about co-parenting and kind of shared custody when you're on the road, safety, different meetups with other single moms, how to stay safe and how to take care of your vehicle and maintain it and fix it. So it was it was really interesting. So even within that community, there's a whole other, there's all kinds of other niche communities. So it's really fun. But obviously, I'm here right now and I that idea did not come to uh fruition. But for my guest today, Laura Leaton, it absolutely did. And so I'm really excited to hear, selfishly, I'm excited to hear her share some of the behind the scenes of of what that process was like, kind of really jumping into the unknown, the uncertain. I mean, oh my gosh, um it sounds exciting, but when it really comes down to doing it, I can also see how scary it would be. And so she talked about that. And I think the big message here is that even if you don't also have a dream of living life on the road in an RV, that's okay, because the point of it is about listening to yourself, trusting yourself, even when you don't know what's around the corner, even if it's scary. And I know that all of us have some sort of crazy idea, some sort of pull on our on our hearts, tugs on our heart, um, that is a whisper in our ear that's telling us, oh, what you know, you could do this and it lights you up, but then it just also feels so scary because there's so much unknown and uncertainty around it. And I don't know, I'm not saying that we have to jump into every single one of those tugs or those ideas, but I do love hearing Laura's story because I think we can do a lot more of it. So you'll get to hear that in this upcoming interview. And then she has spent um almost two decades in different leadership and sales roles. So we get to tap into her expertise and wisdom a little bit inside this interview as well. And she's joining us as an Enneagram type two, three, or maybe seven. And so at the end, we get to talk through kind of the things that resonate with her. And what's interesting too is for her specifically, she has gone on this incredibly deep and intense self-discovery, self-awareness journey, right? It's kind of uh, you know, there's no way around it, probably life on the road, um, spending a lot of time by yourself, and having time to reflect and think and journal and just get out of the day-to-day, get off that default mode, and really start to be more intentional and aware. And so it was interesting because she had had such an intense year of this work, how the different types are showing up for her, and a lot of them are not the stereotypical um tendencies, traits, characteristics because of that. And and the more that you grow, the more that you um you know develop as a as a human being, the less like your type you will actually look. So that's why maybe she's had some difficulty. And if you are in a similar situation in a in a really intense growth period of your life, or maybe a really stressful season, both of those things will kind of your type will end up being expressed differently. And so sometimes it's hard to know, but always come back to that core motive. So you'll have to listen in um to the end of that conversation for um how Laura, what resonates uh about the different types and how she sees the Enneagram kind of you know playing into this self-awareness journey. So without further ado, I uh let's get into the interview. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and to help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gift and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Well, welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram MBA podcast. Today I am being joined by executive coach and leadership development trainer, Laura Leaton. We're gonna hear about her experience with leadership, um, just kind of getting into all of that, how she helps, what she does, trends, that kind of thing. But she's also joining us from The Road. She has a really interesting story we're gonna get into about corporate to camper. And then she's also joining us as a two, three, or type seven Enneagram. So we're gonna talk a little bit about that too. So welcome to the show, Laura. Thank you, Sarah. Good to see you again. It is, it is. I actually got to, and we'll have to put some pictures when we do the promotion for this, but I got to see her camper van that you guys will get to hear about here in just a second. So um, well, I guess let's let's talk about it now. Let's jump into this one. Okay, so tell us where you were maybe a year ago and and where you're at right now. Yeah, kind of working for corporate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yeah, yeah. So um actually it was about, so I started my own business about almost three years ago now, Sarah. Can you believe it? Oh my gosh. I know. So um, but I was in corporate for um almost 17 years. I worked for a big pharma and um I did sales and leadership, and then I eventually went into um executive coaching and leadership development training. So I ran that department for a company. And then I did that for a while and then realized, wow, you know, I really love this. And um I don't know, I just got this wild hair to jump out and start my own business doing it. And I've been fortunate enough through the connections that I have and the friendships that I've made in corporate that I do a lot of uh corporate leadership development and training still with a lot of the same companies um that I worked with and worked for. So it's been I've been blessed in that, in that sense with my own company.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Okay, so you were, yeah, safety security, and that's a really great role with this really great company. And then you were like, I'm just gonna step out and do this. What was that? What was that like? What was that decision like and what was that process like?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Um it was hard. It was it, I mean, I was constantly thinking, I am making such am I making a bad decision? I mean, look all the work I've put in, and you know, financially I was secure. Um I also had so many friends and colleagues that I had known for years that that was kind of my I don't know, I was insulated in in in such, you know, that I was um people cared for me, I knew they knew about me, they knew who I was. Um, and I was I was thinking about walking away from from all of that, you know. So I didn't know I was stepping into the unknown, um, but there was something in me that was unsettled. And I there was something in me that was unsettled, and when I finally narrowed it down, it was the idea that my identity and who I was was tied to a corporate title, a role. Um, and I just wasn't okay with that. Um, I I didn't know who I was, and as a result of that, I think it was affecting my relationships. Um and I was just kind of, I don't know. I just I was unsettled. I think that was the biggest thing. And I so I said, you know, let's I'm gonna go try starting my own business, which I never in my wildest dreams thought of myself as an entrepreneur. Never. Never. So it was definitely stepping out and it was a big stretch.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

So interesting that you wouldn't have, because I I mean I was like, oh, this is natural. Um, seems like a natural next step potentially. So there are others I know, especially after the year that we've had, like with COVID and just time to think and kind of slow down. And I have had a lot of conversations, um, and I fall into this category too, where people are making big decisions like this to um leave a um, you know, a steady job and to go out on their own, or maybe to start a new role, this kind of step step out into the unknown. What advice would you have for somebody who is where you were at the beginning of your journey three years ago?

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Gosh, you know what's so interesting. The first thing that comes to mind, advice I want to give is the advice I still give myself today.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

And that is is trust yourself. Like we have more of the answers than we ever can imagine. Um I know that I didn't trust myself when I stepped out. I was constantly seeking externally for the answers, validation, all this stuff that that would I just wanted to hear, you're okay, you're on the right track, you know what you're doing. And in reality, I was. But I in retrospect, I didn't know that. So I would say if somebody is leaving the safety and safety and security, what is that? Right? There's no such thing. But anyway, if you think you're leaving the safety and security of a of one world to transition into something you feel would be better for you, right? Um, trust that you have the answers. Because you really do.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

That is so good. That is so good. It's hard. It, I mean, that is hard to do. Um, but you're right. Like only we are the expert on ourselves and um just trusting, taking, taking the unknown, and the unknown is scary. And you not only just jumped into the unknown three years ago from corporate career to your own business, but you also was it a year ago that you left your home and are now living on the road in a camper van. So tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, so um uh yeah, that was the next step. Natural next step. What's next? Um, so I did go through a little bit of a hardship. I did go through a divorce uh about a year and a half ago. That was um just it shifted my paradigm completely. And it was one of the hardest things I'd ever gone through in my life. So in in essence, doing what I did with the camper van, this is gonna sound weird, wasn't the hardest thing I've ever done. And I think I needed that contrast um to see what I was capable of, you know, the the the silver linings, the blessings and the hardships that we go through. So it wasn't until when I felt my world was falling apart and that paradigm shift that I really said, you know, I I I can't feel any worse. I can't be any more afraid and fearful and upset and sad and whatever else comes with that traumatic experience that I'm sure a lot of people have gone through. I'm not the only one. Um so I don't know, that kind of gave me the courage to step into some of the things I think I maybe wouldn't have done out of fear when I just needed that con. Sometimes we just need that contrast to go, okay, I can totally do this. So yeah, I I decided that I'm gonna, I've always had the, I always love to travel. I've always loved to watch the YouTube videos and the Instagram posts of these, you know, van lifers. And I would dream about it. But you know, that wasn't gonna be me. Um I said, you know what, what the heck? And and it just was synchronous in so many ways that just flowed perfectly. I found the van, I found someone to build it, and I decided to sell everything I own. I have a little five by five storage unit, which honestly, I don't know. If you guys have storage units, if it disappeared tomorrow or burned down, I'm sure I would be fine with it. Um but I sold everything and I and uh and just started venturing out, you know, small steps of visiting friends and family, going off the grid at times, going into campgrounds at times. But so just I'm learning the process right now. But yeah, it was it was the contrast of feeling as if um I hit rock bottom emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, yeah. And I hadn't really thought about it like that. But when you were saying um, like that's scary, but you've already gone through something that was really scary. So it's like, oh, okay, well then I I can do this. What something that has surprised you in a good way that's been really um, I don't know if it's like changed you or just been fun or just something on the positive side that has surprised you about this experience?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Oh, so many, so many. Um I think the biggest one is that I can I can be where my feet are planted, if that makes sense. So just the ability to be very present. Um I heard that quote and I wish I could give it credit, but it it was from a podcast a couple weeks ago. Be where be where my feet are. I thought, wow, that was pretty powerful. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of times when I'm on the road and I'll pull over to eat. I do have a little dog, her name's London, she's a little shih too. So she is my my travel buddy, so I'm not alone, but the whole idea that you know it's like I can be with myself. There's times when it's not as easy, but there's been more times where it's like, wow, this is pretty powerful to really just be with myself in nature on my own, you know, pulling off wherever I want to pull off. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, and I think too, the connections I've found. This is really interesting. It's counterintuitive. I'm going off alone, but I've been more connected with people than I was when I was in my world, and you know, so the people I've met are beautiful people that I've met on the road, and the connections have been much more um saturated, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah. What about the flip side of it? And I love that. I love what you just said. What about the flip side? What's something that's been harder about this than you maybe were expecting in the beginning?

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Um you know, interesting enough, it may be the same thing that's the most beautiful and fun, right? Is um being alone at times, like I really am in a place right now where I'm learning to love me and understand who I am and to be able to really create a better connection with my faith as well. And it can be a lonely place at times. But the cool part about it is that in the past when it was lonely, I think I I didn't realize that like these emotions are just fleeting, you know, they're gonna pass. So I'd always try to stay a step ahead of it. Where now it's it's been when I do have those moments of being lonely or being sad or poor me or victim or whatever it is that we go through. I those tend to be my emotions that I go through. Um I sit in it and I'm present with it, and it is painful at times. But I know that they're fleeting. So if I stay in it and sit with it, that it will pass. And so that's been the hardest part and the biggest learning I've had in being in this. I don't want to say this journey alone because I feel I feel less alone really. But it's uh yeah, I would say that would be the the toughest. Because I can, you know, when you're when I was in corporate, when I was living in an apartment, but I was around people all the time, easy distractions. Everything's distraction. I didn't even realize what my distractions were that were distractions. Oh, so interesting. You know, now I don't have those. It's kind of like there's an essence of self-love and I matter when everything's stripped away. You think it'd be the opposite, right? But sitting with myself alone on the road, you know, there's a there's a sense, there's a you really get a sense of what matters.

unknown 17:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah. Um, I would I'm just curious because I think a lot of people like have this on their vision board or like say, oh, it'd be so cool. And I'm even in those like RV RV live Facebook groups. Yeah, yeah. Um just I just want to ask like kind of like a logistics question for anybody else thinking about it. How did you, because you created, you have Wanda, your van that you bought and like remodeled. Like, what was the decision behind that versus like getting something that was already created? Or um like how did you know that's the way that you wanted to go?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Great question. Now, granted, I am a planner, so I did do a lot of research before this. It wasn't like a boom. However, there was a lot of like what feels right for me too, you know. So I did look at everything. I looked at the fabricated RVs, I looked at the, you know, the I forgot what you call them now, the uh it was a solace, I can't remember. But I looked at um uh ones that were already designed. I looked at some that were empty, and I've done, I did all the work. But when I finally got down to pulling the trigger, um I knew that I wanted a space that I was gonna be in that was gonna feel comfy, that was gonna feel like me, that I was going to really resonate with day in, day out. And it was it was one that was built out, you know, um, with a lot of character, um, working hand in hand with the with the guy who did it with me, which who was phenomenal. That's a story in and of itself and how I met him, but you know, that was that was synchronicity in its best. But yeah, so I really just wanted something that was mine. Like when you get in it, it's mine. It's not something that was already built out. So, because this was a journey that was really cathartic for me. So this was part of that too.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah. Yeah, and it is so cute. What is your favorite thing about it?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

My favorite thing about it. Well, like yesterday I was on a Zoom call and I went to a coffee shop. Okay. So I go in the coffee shop, I grab my coffee, and I went back into the van with my little dog because I had a Zoom call. So I went back there and I set up my computer and I have a little light, panel lights that go along the top of this wood. It's pine, the ceiling's pine. And I got all comfy with my pillows. I had a blanket over me, and I was sitting there on this conference call with some really beautiful people, a group of people that I that I'm working with in training. And I looked around and I just thought to myself, like, I like I'm so cozy right here on my computer in my cozy little van. I just think it's the aura of the of the space, and that I could be anywhere, and then I'm right outside the coffee shop that I just locked into. And I don't know, I love all of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah, yeah. What it what is it like working on the road? So the work that you do, right? Well, I guess let's start there. What are you doing right now, work-wise?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yep. So right now I do um executive leadership development training for for several big pharma companies, and I also do career change coaching for a company out of Pittsburgh. And my their career change coaching is all virtual um online coaching. So I basically have internet access in my van. I just pull over somewhere, go in the back, and hang out with with a client. So I love that. Um, the um the leadership development training is now hybrid. So if with COVID over the last year and a half, it's been all virtual. So basically, what I do is I'll go visit a friend or I'll go into a WeWorkspace. I find a really cool place I want to go to and I go into workspace and that way I can plug in and not have to worry about, you know, not getting internet or it going down or what have you. So that's basically what I what I do, and I schedule it out such that it gives me a buffer. So I never really do them back to back to back to back to back, which is kind of cool in the ability to just design how I want to work, which I haven't been able to do. But it's starting to come together now where I'm kind of feeling a cadence on maybe working. I work for about a week a month, and then I take off and I explore, and then I come back and I work a week a month. And that's really what it's looked like so far. But it's taken time, you know, it's not something that I just woke up to overnight. I mean, I literally scheduled too much and then was frantic and then learned the lesson there. I picked places where my internet went out, and then I was learned a lesson there. So this is all work in process, progress, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Um, what about because you have been in that corporate culture for so long? And one of the things that I know I struggled with, and I I've heard from other people is um like feeling like, oh, I should be sitting in front of my computer at 8 a.m. until eight hours later. And it just I feel like guilty if I'm do something different. Like, did that take you a while to get used to, or maybe because you had already had your own business, it wasn't such a thing? Because I love what you're doing. And I know sometimes those of there's some types of there's some personalities too. It just feels really weird not to be working all the time.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah. Um you know when you ask that question I must I must say I'm very proud of myself. I don't do that anymore. I think a little bit of it is that I don't have a home office that is just too easy to go sit in.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I have nature and hiking and all that other stuff. But you know one thing that I did do and I was very conscious about it over the last six months is I pulled things out of my schedule or projects or opportunities that I typically would have just said yes to. I don't really look forward to it. And so I've been very conscious of taking that off my plate. So all the work that I do right now is very focused. There was a lot of discernment in the work that I do now and it matches how I want to feel and what I want to be doing. I didn't do that before. Before it was anything and everything was important. Now I'm very clear about what I enjoy what I want to call work. And it's less about defining myself as what I do anymore. In fact I never really even ask people anymore what do you do? Because that is not who you are. And that's been the biggest shift for me. So I don't do a lot of do do do. It's I mean it takes work because I'm a doer but I don't do a whole lot of doing anymore. Right now it's just around it's about being yes oh that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Okay we're we'll probably come back to that when we get into the Enneagram types of clues. So but since you're here I want to I want to tap into some of your expertise and some of your experience around um both leadership and then the career transition work that you also do because I think that that that's really interesting. But okay so I have I I took notes for this and I I want to let me pull this up really quick. Okay so here are just here are some stats and I would love to know like um if if this is like just to you based on your experience and we'll go from there so I've done this article and I've seen similar stats over and over about you know 5% of CEOs among 3000 of the largest companies are women. The women uh the number of women on executive boards and C suite positions is continues to be fewer. One, let's see what was the other one that oh 33 women held the position of CEO at a Fortune 500 company. So um that's that's the picture and whether you know from year to year whatever that is that kind of seems to be some of the trends. So I would love to know what your experience has been with women in leadership and why do you feel like those stats are the way that they are wow that is a loaded question. I know I know that's a big question.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

From my experience yes from your experience yeah from my experience I think that the stats as you state them are as they are because um I think that in working with a lot of women in my in my um over my career I think there's a lot of not trusting themselves. And I think that's a social construct that has come about um we all hear the stereotypes of um when a men when a man um is assertive or steps into a leadership position that they're powerful and productive. And when a woman steps in assertive into a leadership position she's you know overly critical overly emotional um trying to prove something right so there's that social construct it's a reality it's what our society has deemed as kind of the stereotypes of a male versus a female leader. And I hate using the stereotypes in the labels that's just not um but I also think that um I was very conscious when I was in a leadership position in corporate because I was a female to make sure that I was bringing other females along um and lifting them up and supporting them in those areas not only in the in the dynamics of leadership development in terms of um you know workshops and trainings and what have you but more so in the experience of you know how do they feel when they step into a leadership position why do they feel they can't speak up but really getting to the the nitty gritty of it. And I don't know if there's enough of that done and that's really stepping into the human element of the leader versus the title of the leader. How are you feeling? Why didn't you speak up what do you want to say? How do you feel when right those are the same questions you can ask men as well I'm not saying you can't um but I think those are the questions that really empower individuals and leaders to step into positions and to speak up right and have the to feel the confidence to bring others along with them. So I would say that that has a little bit to do it. Now there's been a lot of change in that area I've I've actually worked with so many more women in leadership now just from the training. So you're starting to see that come about but but when I get vulnerable during these trainings and talk about hey I remember when I was in your shoes and I felt this way and I felt that way then they start laying their guard down and you start seeing that wow they feel the same way right so or you can even talk about you know women that are you know they they get to the point where they're raising kids and it's a lot to do to juggle that and to be away um but then again there's women that are doing it and they're doing it great. So there's just learning how to have those um beautiful life experiences raising families having children and being able to actually bring their gifts into a corporate arena so they can lead people as well we just need to learn to do it differently and it's not the old traditional construct it's the it's the human element you know bringing that uh bringing your life to work and bringing your you know you can do that stuff I think there's a lot to say for that you know so I I don't know if if if that was clear what I even said um but I think society places labels on how women show up in leadership versus how men should show up in leadership and that's a it's stifling it could be limiting um and I also think you know tapping into the emotional compassionate human side of leaders will bring in a lot more women into leadership positions.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Yeah well and I like kind of how you broke that down into there's I mean there's things just about society and that's just kind of that's going to be a bigger ship to turn but then there's other things that you can do yourself. And you had shared a couple of questions um it was well and you know maybe you'll repeat them for us but like why am I not speaking up are there other things that you recommend and it can be any kind of leader male or female like you're saying for those who are maybe wanting to you know be either a title leader or just you know step into a leadership or maybe lead themselves in their own business, whatever it might be that you would recommend kind of like why yeah why don't you trust yourself or what's holding you back? Any other like questions or any other exercises that you've seen work really well?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

I think like I I like I said there's beliefs that we form early on that get in our way you know um I'm not smart enough um no one's gonna listen to me. I don't matter right and really being able to sit down with somebody and ask, you know, like what is that belief and where where when was that formed? You know why do you feel that way and how is that belief serving you today you know because we we form these beliefs as children that help us survive and then we bring them into adulthood and they just don't work. And I think bringing that concept into a leadership forum allows us to understand why how we show up as leaders you know why we don't speak up you know why why we don't feel that we're valued or that we matter right that comes from something a lot deeper than just an experience you had last year. You know what I mean? And I think pausing and slowing down long enough to really get to that crux is is I found valuable in some of the leadership training.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah. What do you what in your experience again just your opinion what are some key things that make a really great leader?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah yeah I would say um trusting yourself yeah trusting yourself because I think we're mirrors of each other so if I'm able to trust myself I can trust you and if I can trust you then you can grow into your potential and make not be fearful of making mistakes and going big right so I would say trust I would say um um humility right um I would say those two are probably the two core that feed into everything else yeah yeah that is so true um and because it's like oh some of the things it's like oh decision making or I'm trying to think of like just kind of like superficial things um that come up but they kind of all tie into that trust and they're all byproduct so right so yes be able to make a decision be able to say things to say and do the hard things right things the ability to um um uh yeah all that is a byproduct of being able to trust yourself you don't trust yourself you can't trust anybody else you can't step into the hard things you can't make tough decisions right communication we talk about you know good communication and that's what a great leader has good communication but without humility and without the ability to trust your thoughts and your feelings you can't communicate right so it's they really are core to to being that and you know I love the whole concept of compassionate leadership I feel like that is leadership now you get the most to get the most ROI out of your business right yeah you can use a compassionate leadership allows people to really step into them big selves and that's when you get the productivity yeah it's like that um people don't know that you what's the saying people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Is that it?

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah okay yeah yeah yeah what what um what qualities do you feel like you had to develop to step out and start your own business like is there anything else that you would add to this yeah well one trusting I had to be trusting um I had to be trusting I mean that is the that is the core I had to step into the unknown um you know one more that comes to mind too is I had to be really surrendered to expectation and I know to start your business you have to have goals and you have to have a business plan. I'm not saying that I had all that okay but I had to let go of like this hardcore this is what it's gonna look like because it was stifling. And it I was fearful to make decisions because what if it wasn't a decision that was going to look like that, right? So I had my goal but then I also knew that I had to like kind of let go of them and let things evolve and turn into what they were meant to turn into. And in doing that I was able to show up for my best in really creating this business and being a leader for others right because I'm gonna tell you one thing I've learned expectations kill you. They may they me personally my experience of expectation I'm not saying you know not setting goals. So I want to make sure that's clear it's I'm not saying not setting goals but from my experience whenever I set an expectation I I'm let down because it's not I'm constantly striving to get to that and I'm missing the complete journey whatsoever. You know and what if it goes left? Maybe it's supposed to go left right instead of forcing it back right.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah you know yeah it's like a mix of like allowing and being intentional and then just like allowing I guess what comes next. Yeah. What are some things and it and I know I'm putting you on the spot with some of these these are just kind of saying things but what what are some ways that we could practice trusting ourselves or how do we get better at that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Let us know call it call and let us know um well I'm um I do it every day. So I think it's it's it's first of all it's moment to moment. I think it can go any anywhere from making having to make a big decision and trusting yourself or just um a small thought a small task um what do I do? I literally am just sinking into every moment. I think in order to I I spoke a little bit early on about this whole self-love thing. We hear it all the time you have self-love right I'm 52 and I'm finally think I'm figuring out what that is but I can't have it unless I can't be unless I can be present. And so trusting that the present moment like right now where my feet are is exactly perfect and where I'm supposed to be because if I'm not here I'm in the future and completely anxious or I'm in the in history and it's depressing. Right? So if I'm not if when I'm right here there's a level of trust like then I become then it kicks on this conscious goes trust that you're here and you're supposed to be right here. And I literally do that minute to minute to minute to minute you know that's one thing I've realized is that life is just millions of experiences. So how do I practice that?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

By trying to be where my feet are I think that's something yeah a lot of us can can can do and it's I mean it sounds really simple but I'm very much the same way um that you had talked about you you sometimes maybe are but we're in the past about living in the future so much um either in anxiety or just like oh what's next and not enjoying where I was um which is a lot of Enneagram type seven energy. And maybe we'll maybe we'll switch yours a little bit um and talk about the Enneagram and just kind of what has come up for you when you took the initial assessment and um just talk a little bit about this because what what came back for you is what type two first type three type seven is that right okay did you have a chance to to read anything about them okay tell me tell me just like off the bat like what what comes up I think we'll mess no no let me tell you that the first thing I thought about was I was kind of like yeah Laura you're you're on the you are on the right path and journey and I'll tell you why because I feel like I'm in a lot of transition and transformation right now.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

So when reading two, three and seven I noticed there was a little bit of shift in how how the percentage and when they show up for me because it wasn't it was different three years ago. And I also finding that there's a little bit of contradiction but I I'm not sure you can tell me I feel like the contradiction makes sense right now because I'm doing a lot of deep dive into who I am why I feel the way I do at times being present with the feelings why I get so driven what I'm driving for. That was the coolest part I'm driving still I'm goal setting still but they're not for the same things as three years ago. So that's kind of like the undercurrent is is still there but my where my focus is and what my intention is seems to have maybe shifted a little bit. Okay. Two and three two and three seem contradictory to me but I was like okay yeah yeah there's there's some transformation going on you know and seven two very clear that was what that was my highest percentage three or four years ago was that was 83% seven so it's still there I think you mentioned that it's always we'll be a part of you know but it's interesting that they're a little convoluted but that's okay because it makes sense right now to me.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah it it does and interestingly like they all have some connections to each other. And that's kind of the cool thing about the Enneagram is that it's so many people just it's fun or entertaining just to focus on the one single like what's my type but when you really get into it and want to use it for transformation and and you know really legit self-acceptance and understanding there's there's all kinds of connections. And so it it makes sense why different type energies would show up. And you know I would love and these are just going to be me being like curious hopefully you don't feel like oh judge or or anything. So so interestingly the two and the three um well let me ask you this first what did you feel like was most contradictory between the two the two and this and the type three yeah um if I now if I can remember this and you can say this one.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

But yeah but I think it was like I the contradictions that I was remember thinking when I was reading it was that um one leads from the heart one leads from the head and I am very I've been coined heady I am heady okay um and a lot of my work right now is sinking into my heart and and and gut like somatically even sinking in and getting out of my head right so I can feel that happening right so that's kind of a contradiction. Another was um um at first was the the driving and the striving and the goal setting but then I'm like no no I'm that's still part of me I'm just striving and goal setting in a more holistic way like it's more about my well-being and and my spirituality and my you know emotions and so it's still striving because my I used to be super super career driven and now I'm not as career driven. I'm basically just leaning into um what I love to do and what people see me as an expert in like I'm not striving to prove anything anymore. I just um doing what I love to do. So it's different I'm now more striving to find out really who I am and be present and authentic and transparent in the world I'm in right so that was a little different but the same. And there was one thing that stood out that really is kind of one of those like shadow things that you're kind of like I don't like it about myself but it's true. I do and this is one thing that I really I lost a lot of shame around honestly just by going there with it. But I I I seek attention And affection and love and that yearning to be wanted and loved and affection. And I understand where it comes from and everything from my past. I've done a nod to that. But I used to be ashamed to say that because it's just, you know, I'm a strong independent woman. What are you talking about? Like, you know? But now I've realized that no, I a lot of my actions and what I do and how I show up are to get that need, need met. And I'm okay with that. Um, but it's something that I'm working, definitely working through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I'm so glad you said that. Um, because that that is um, I mean, that that's thank you for being so vulnerable and honest. Um, because the the shadow things are the the cringy things. And it's like, oh gosh, I don't really want to see this, I don't want to talk about it. But um, you're so right in that there's there's insight and there's also goodness in those things. Um, either those that that behavior helped you get through a time or a period in your life. And so it, you know, or it's like continuing to help you in some way, even though it may also be sabotaging you or looks like it's sabotaging you. So um, I know sometimes the shadow sites get a bad rep, but we don't want to look at them. Um, typically our type is the one that we don't want to be the most. So I don't know if that gives you any clues. Um, but what's kind of what's kind of interesting, um, especially for somebody like you who is like you've I feel like you have always though done a lot of self-development and self-work and been very aware. And I know that like the last years, maybe especially year and a half, like that is something you have just dove headfirst into. And so it's interesting is that behavior-wise, the more that you grow as a person, the less like your type you actually look. And so that's why like understanding the motives behind, like you were saying, like kind of understanding like why do I need to feel wanted or loved, and understanding that is where like the meat is behind why you are what type. So could we could I read a couple of things or just share a couple of things about each of the type? Because I think it would be fun um for others to also hear like what resonates with you. Cause sometimes um the Enneagram is so one of the biggest benefits is just knowing you're not crazy and not the only one. You know what I mean? Yeah, good. So um, okay, so I'll I'm gonna run through just really quickly each of those three. And then I would love to hear like anything that jumps out at you as being super relatable. Um, so what's interesting about the type two and the type three is that both of them have a need or a want um to be worthy. But for a two, they go about getting it from what they do for others, whereas a three will go about it with doing being a human doing, like what they accomplish, the success that they have determines how worthy they are versus how much they do for others. So it is they actually, there's a lot of people have confusion. You're not the only one between that two and the three. So um a two does have that driver to be needed and and wanted and appreciated. Um, also, I think like each type has what they call like um a vice or a passion. It's like the seven deadly sins, but the Enneagram added two more. So we have nine. And sometimes that is also helpful to look at because then you can kind of see like you were talking about like the driver, like it's the driver behind some of your either current or past, you know, repeat behaviors. And so for a type two with their need to be wanted and love, they their vice, if you will, is they call it pride. And it's this um pride in that like it's important, they have a need to be important to others. Um and they kind of cycle between um like, oh, look at how much I'm doing for you. I'm so great. And then also the downside, like devaluing themselves. I don't matter, not doing enough. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then they also sometimes like that vice piece when it's showing up, um, they can kind of view themselves as the one who they're the ones who can help. So in a situation, it's like, I'm here to help. I got you. Yeah. Um, I'll and I'll just pause. Like, what from that, if anything, feels true? All of it. Okay. Okay, okay, okay, all of it. Okay. Um, and what's interesting about this one, Laura, specifically for you, is that so that there's the vice and then there's like the virtue. And so the virtue for the two when they're growing, when they're living their best life, is humility. And oh wow. Isn't that interesting? And so it's like knowing, um, just knowing how important you are or uh that you, you know, whoever, not you, but you in general are without feeling like you have to do something for others in order to have worth. Um, okay, and so the type three, their motive behind their behaviors is this drive to be seen as successful and accomplished. Um, but really what they want is to be loved and wanted and worthy regardless of what they accomplish. And that's really hard to type. Um, they're a very much a human doing. And I know you had kind of mentioned that earlier about yourself. And so titles and money and um promotions and like work is very important. Um, their vice, you'll have to let me know what resonates for you personally, is it they call it deceit, but but really it's self-deceit. And so threes um are also called like shape shifters or with the performer, and they feel like and they're really good at like reading a room and then seeing who they need to be in order to get along in that situation or to make connections or kind of get what they want, and they'll so they'll kind of shift. Um, and they tend to believe that they have to earn love by being worthy and worthy of like accomplishments, and then um they sometimes in this like deceit area can take on other people's ideas or desires of who they think that they should be and take them on as their own identity. So at the end of the day, sometimes threes are so busy shape-shifting and being who others want them to be or who they think others want them to be, that they get to a point, it's like, gosh, who am I really? Um what from that feels true or relevant? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

I think that's why I'm doing the work I'm doing and the transformation that I'm doing right now. Really the is is because of that. You know, I think about, you know, I ask myself that question a lot, you know, who am I? Because I feel like over time, um I've probably shifted into what I thought others um would want or expect from me, you know. So um I think that's the biggest shift right now. You know, I'm living in a van, I'm traveling across the US and corporate leadership development trainer. Yeah. So there's a a gap right now that I'm trying to navigate. Do I do I put on a persona as a leadership development trainer? Or am I authentically who I am and I just carry my experience to them? And it's been it's been fascinating to watch what I think, what what I thought they'd want me to show up as. And when I show up authentically who I am, it it's like it's richer, more connected, right? So I can see I can see that that's definitely an undercurrent for me. Two and three. Definitely. But I'm also wanting to, like you said, I want to not need the external to be worthy.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah, yeah. And and we all struggle with that regardless of of the type, right? But it's like sometimes um there's like repeat behaviors or like we're stuck, or it's like, why do we keep having the same fight or the same conversation? And it's really interesting, like how I've noticed just understanding your Enneagram type sometimes gives you clues into I like that word that you're using, the undercurrent. And it's like, oh, this is like a big theme, and this is like a big catalyst for some of those things and also um the growth um and the positive things. Okay, so let's let's look at type seven for you, and then also anybody who's listening who may also be kind of struggling with all three or some of these. Um, so the type seven um is after fulfillment and satisfaction and running away from painful feelings, discomfort, um, lack of options, lack of variety. So they're kind of like the ultimate FOMO, fear of missing out. Grass is greener. And um what's interesting too, Laura, is that um set so twos and threes are are in the heart center of intelligence, and then we have a gut center or body center, and then we have um sevens, five, six, seven, two are in the head center of intelligence, which means if you're in that, it's like your default um way of processing things is through your head or your heart. Um, but what actually gets a little tricky as a three, just to make it even more confusing for you, is that they are actually um repressed in feeling. And it doesn't mean that they don't feel, they have a lot of feelings. It means sometimes for some threes, they feel like feelings aren't productive. Um, they get in the way of the goal, they get in the way of the result. And so they will push their feelings and the feelings of others to the side because efficiency is extremely important to them. Um, checking off the list is very important. And so they'll come back to the feelings, but rarely do. So contrast that with type seven, who tends to be in their head. And rather than having like an initial feeling, they'll have to think about how do I feel about this? Which when I started to learn about this for myself, I was like, oh my gosh, yeah, I'm like, I don't know how I feel. I need to think about it. So um, that's just another interesting thing. That resonated. That resonated.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

No one said, How do you feel?

SPEAKER_00 55:41

I'm like, let me think about how I feel for a second. Oh, yeah. And you know, twos are very much feelers too, but they tend to have a focus on the feelings of others, like very in touch, like temperature check on the feelings of others, like reading people is their superpower. So it's just kind of interesting with you, how this is something that you're working on and how each of these kind of experience feelings in a different way, but it's not necessarily historically been feelings on themselves, and kind of that's what you're working on. So that's just interesting. Um, device for the the seven is what they call gluttony, and it's not necessarily what you eat or overeating. It has to do with like this, you know, we're constantly looking for satisfaction and excitement and adventure. And so it's like we're gluttony for experiences and we're a collector of experiences, more. We want more coffee, more chocolate, more like give me more trips, give me all this stuff. And so um, they have this like desire to want to sample everything in life without limitation. And they may jump from experience to experience. So they might be very impulsive, but interestingly enough, they also um live in the future and live in plans. So when you were saying like you love to plan out things, like that also is like, wow, gosh, that kind of resonates too. Um, because they plan, plan, plan, plan, plan. Um, so anything about the seven or what about the seven jumps out at you.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

I think I uh the whole idea of gluttony of experiences, like um this whole idea of going from experience, experience, experience, and how so much of my focus right now is really just being in the moment, you know, still wanting the experiences, but letting them like play out a little bit longer. Yeah, you know, not chasing a squirrel to the next one, but just kind of sitting in it, like if I'm gonna experience something, what does that mean? Like I've had to ask myself that too. Okay, we experience something, we use that as a cliche. But what what does it mean to experience something? Something, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

Yeah, and and what's also really interesting, Laura, something else that you had said earlier was um like the work that you're doing with living where your feet are planted or being where your feet are planted. Um threes, sevens, and also type eights are in this grouping or they call it a stance, and it's called the assertive, sometimes the aggressive stance, but those in the that stance don't like to be called aggressive. So the assertive stance where you are very future focused. Um each type, each grouping has a time orientation. Twos tend to be more present, but in that here's the problem in front of me, and I kind of forget how far I've come and all that I've accomplished. And I'm forgetting that there's possibilities and hope on the other side. I'm just kind of stuck here. So that's kind of what that looks like. But for threes and sevens, they're looking into the future, thinking like, what's next? And they want to go far and they want to go fast. So it is very much the work for those types to be more in the present. Yeah. Which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Yeah. It just really given me, honestly, it's given me some solace, even having this conversation, because just talking about how I've shown up in the Enneagram now has made me realize the progress I've made. And that the focus of my work right now, not work and you know, my title, but work, my personal work is actually it's I'm in it. It's it is working, it's showing up. You know what I mean? It's it's kind of nice to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Yeah, I know, and that's so cool to be in it. Um, and of course, no, we're not gonna be perfect and we're not gonna always be be it, but yeah, it is that's really cool to hear. Um, you know, another thing, and I know we won't get to the bottom of it necessarily today, and the beauty of this typing process is like asking yourself and thinking about questions that maybe you hadn't before or just in a different way. So we love to take a test and we want to get the answers back, but sometimes um Enneagram tests are not always, you know, 100% accurate. And there is um so much that can come from learning about the different types once you start to narrow it down. Um, and so the thing that I always recommend if somebody is still kind of like, am I this or am I that? Um, is looking at where you go to in stress and then where you go to like when you're really integrated and in a safe and secure spot. And why I think type seven is still very much on the table for you is um they go to a type five in safety and security. And that's the type that's really comfortable with silence and solitude and not necessarily needing a big adventure to be satisfied. And I feel like you're so much, um, whether this that ends up being your type or not, like I feel like there's like a lot of that energy in what you're doing right now. Yeah. Yeah. And um, they go to a in in stress, they go to a one, which tends to be um over controlling, which again is really interesting, just kind of how you were talking about like what you've the work that you've been doing and trying to release control and still have a plan or an intention, but not an expectation.

unknown 1:01:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

So that's kind of interesting. And then for the three, um, they go to a nine in stress, which nines they tend to be the peacemaker and the mediator, but in their unhealthy, I don't even like I gotta find a new word because who wants to be unhealthy? But in their like areas for development, potential for development, um, they will kind of veg out. They will take on kind of the sloth qualities of a type nine, which is not, they're not lazy. It's just like they're they're numb to their own feelings and opinions because they want to keep the peace so they don't bring up their own opinions. Um, and so they kind of take on some of that energy. But when they're growing, they go to the six where they're very collaborative and community, which I feel like you already kind of have a natural tendency toward. So I don't know that that's kind of just interesting to explore more, maybe for you and see um learning about those air, they call them like your arrows. Um and and that's always my recommendation is if you're like you're not sure what your type is, to start exploring like what stress looks like to you and what like growth looks like and kind of seeing which one relates more. I've heard a lot of people say once they started to learn that, they were like, oh my gosh, it couldn't be anything else.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Yeah, that would be very yeah, that would be clear. Uh yeah, I'm gonna take a look at that because when you start talking about the stressors well, how do you handle what do you do with stress now? Controlling, like hold on to the control it, try to, you know, um fix it, make it go the right way, you know. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, no, definitely not, definitely not sloth-like. I can't say that I that one resonates, but um but definitely like under stress, yeah. Yeah, control, control it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:46

Yeah, and with the sloth, just for the nines or anybody who is at three, it's more like I'm so stressed, I'm so burnt out that like I'm gonna do the opposite. Like I've been working, working, working, and then I'm gonna tune out. But yeah, I I'm with you. Like I get it's like, oh, I'm so fun and carefree until I'm stressed, and then I'm like, oh's joke, then I'm like, you know, trying to make a to-do list and cleaning the baseboards and like reorganizing the dishwasher and just doing stupid things, but I feel like I can control. You're right, right. Like it's an unproductive controlling, right? So yeah, that might be interesting um to look more into that one, the the seven, and then just understanding the one energy more and the five, because I feel like you're really taking on a lot of those. Um, but yeah, that that's always fun just to kind of talk about because it's so different, right? It's different than me reading a book or anybody reading a book, but to hear about somebody else's experience and what resonates and what doesn't, because we're human beings, right? We're not a number. Um, I know that that's going to be helpful to maybe somebody else who's exploring their type. Um, anything else that just like about what we've talked about with the Enneagram specifically before I start getting into my rapid fire questions that came up or any any questions?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

Um I guess the biggest question I have is because I'm in the I'm in an area of transformation right now where there's a lot of thoughts, a lot of movements, a lot of me really um looking at some of those shadows that we talked about and stepping into them and really just embracing my whole self and not pushing those away, right? Really embracing all of it. Um is there a common, is there is there an Enneagram that's gonna show up you for you forever? Um and it just basically changes, like the the percentage of it changes, or can you through transformation and really doing a lot of work on yourself turn into a different Enneagram number?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Such a good question. That's such a good question. That's a that's a that's a great question, and it's a common question that a lot of people ask, um, especially people who are kind of in a a situation. Of you know, growth or thinking like, well, when I was 20, maybe I was a seven, but now I'm you know 50 and I'm a type three or whatever. Um and the answer is it it will not change. Your behaviors hopefully will change, which yours absolutely are, right? But um according to Enneagram theory and um really, you know, the whole nature versus nature kind of debate too. And so they say it's like you were you were born a certain way, and then based on whatever happened in your childhood, you learned how to feel safe and get your needs met in a in a certain way, and you have taken those coping mechanisms, defense mechanisms, whatever, to get you through that, even if it was a great childhood, right? We always have something. Um, but you have carried those tendencies and um yeah, I guess coping skills throughout your life. And they have created like this certain motive and these certain beliefs, um, patterns. And yes, you will grow out of them and look less like a seven or less like a three, whatever your type ends up being, um, and more like a whole person where you're intentionally tapping into all of these things. Cause really what the Enneagram shows you is um your unconscious. And that's why sometimes it is hard. The typing process is hard because it's really about your unconscious feelings, thoughts, behaviors. And so it's hard to right away sometimes know, like, oh yeah, I'm I'm I'm unconsciously doing this. Um someone like you who's done a lot of work and is like bringing some of the conscious to unconscious to the conscious, kind of waking up to yourself, um, you're going to be a little bit more aware and kind of know where those are, but it really shines light on those unconscious things about yourself. Um, and so when you obviously shine light on those, then you act differently, but the motive will still be there about why you're acting that way. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Yeah, it makes sense to why you said that you're typically the your Enneogram is typically what you don't want because it's your unconscious.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

Right. So that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. No, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So okay, so this is fun. Thank you. Thank you for that. And I I love to just kind of hearing about like the the leadership and your thoughts on that. So thank you for all that you shared. I know um the listeners are going to get so much from that. Now, before we get into the rapid fire questions, um, where can somebody connect with you? So whether they're just wanting to follow along with your camper life journey or somebody who, you know, depending on what you have available right now, um, hire you for a corporate training of some sort or hire you for their career change transition, um, where can we find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Yeah. So my company is called Anchored Elements Business Coaching and Training. Um, my email address is aecoaching at LauraLeaton.com. And you can always email me. That's probably the best way now since I'm traveling about. Um I am on Facebook under Laura Leaton, but I'm on Instagram under corporate decamper.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

I just love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

So if you go to corporate decamper, you'll be able to follow along with all my adventures with Wanda.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Yes, I love that you named it. Okay, so uh these rapid fire questions don't have to be rapid fire answers necessarily, but I'm gonna try to just keep them rapid fire questions and not say much. Um, what is something right now that you are learning? And I know we've talked a lot about this. If there's anything else you want to add to what we have talked about today, something new you're learning. It doesn't have to be work-related or self-growth, it can be somebody decided they're learning Italian. So it can literally be anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

Yeah, yeah. Um I'm learning to trust myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. What about what about something that you are unlearning? Intentionally unlearning.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

That is a great question because I'm unlearning so much. Yeah. Um I'm unlearning that I'm not worthy for the big, exciting, juicy stuff in life.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

That's a good one. Um, people talk about um kind of like living your best life and being your best self. What does that look like for you specifically?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Um really being true to myself, um doing and being what makes me feel good, um, really truly authentically connecting with other human beings.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

Um yeah, and I know that um this is gonna be hard because we were talking about your book collection before we started. But is there a book that you would recommend, or what book would you recommend to somebody who was maybe trying to either um develop leadership skills, trusting themselves, starting their own business? Is there been a book that you've read recently that's had an impact on you or a go-to favorite?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

Yeah, actually, there is a go-to favorite on leadership. Um it's called The Art of Possibility.

unknown 1:11:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:00

And it is a it's a story, so it's kind of fun to read. Um and uh yeah, it's great. A lot of lessons came out of that book for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

I love that. Okay, so good. Um, and just I mean, I don't know what type you are yet, but just letting you know, type seven has like they're all about the possibilities in life. Like they love to plan the possibilities. So I don't that could be another clue. Oh, it could be. Um, well, Laura, thank you so much for being here. And like I said, I I appreciate you sharing um and just being like so open and honest. And I we covered so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

We did.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

But is is there anything that I didn't ask you or we didn't get to talked about talk about today that you feel like you would want to share before we sign off to kind of feel like this interview is complete?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

No, this has been wonderful. You know, I I sat with you what three years ago and we we did something about three years ago. And I just sitting here with you now, I just feel there's just a I just feel like we're both different people today than we were before. And there's just something so exciting and hopeful about that. So thank you so much for always being so generous and and uh I love talking to you. We can sit and talk for hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

I know we really could, we really could. I know. So um, well, I I enjoyed selfishly getting to have this conversation with you, and then I'm so glad that I get to get to share it with the listeners. So I appreciate you, Laura, and we will see you out on the road. Yes, thank you.