SPEAKER_02 0:00

If you've heard this term, oh, you're inner genius or your superpower, get in touch with your superpower, and you've thought, that sounds like a great idea, but like, how do I find what my superpower is? Sometimes that is hard because a lot of times the thing that we are so great at that is a standout quality about ourselves comes so easily that it's hard to even realize that it's like a thing, that it is a thing that people need and want and love, and that we are so good at it and could use it in the work that we do because it just comes so natural. So today, my guest is CEO of Enlivened Studios, Shannon Hughes, and she's going to talk to us a little bit today about connecting with our inner genius and how to actually do that. She works with leaders, other CEOs, business owners, executive team members to help them also connect with their personal genius, and she helps them energize their own teams. And she does this in a really unique way. So she has a background in improv. So she has paired her love for improv with her love for training and facilitating, and then her background and experience in the corporate world and put that all together to create this really unique improv-inspiing, storytelling, kind of conversational workshopping. And she, the work that she does and how she does it is very intentional with creating this lasting impact that goes beyond just the workshop itself. And she really helps her clients and her workshop attendees create a shift that is long-lasting. And she also helps them kind of discover, uncover, start to use this yes and mindset that has been one of the key factors in her own success. And she talks to us a little bit about that and also the shadow side of that yes and statement as well, but more so the benefits of developing that kind of mindset. So we get into all kinds of things, including how she's kind of going through a questioning of her own Enneagram type. She historically had thought that she was a type 7. We get into some of the reasons why she felt so strongly about that. But just in the last 24 hours of us recording this episode, she had started learning more about the type three and now kind of questioning, oh, could it be this or that? So, really, the typing process can be such a journey. And I love it because regardless of us nailing her type in this exact moment or you nailing your type on this exact day, by continuing to explore and be open to it being something else, she continues to pull back the onion, learn more things about herself by asking questions, considering things about the other types, about another type that maybe she wouldn't have before. And so that applies to all of us on our own Enneagram typing journey, even if you feel like, oh, 100% this is me, I'm sure you're right. But still continuing to say, wow, that part about this other type does feel true for me, and continuing to build that self-awareness outside of just the siloed type. So without further ado, let's get into this conversation with Shannon Hughes. Welcome to the Enneagram MBA Podcast, a show for aspiring and growing entrepreneurs and unfulfilled employees who know they are capable of playing bigger. If you are wanting to identify your gifts, find your purpose, do work that matters, and create a ripple effect that goes beyond yourself, you're in the right place. Each week you'll get resources, strategies, and support to help you get to know yourself, to get to know and understand others, like your future clients, and to help you get known so that you can reach more people with your gifts and purpose. So grab your notebook or open up your notes app, and I will see you in class. Well, welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram MVA podcast. Today is, it's gonna be fun. They're always fun, and I always say this, but I have Shannon Hughes, who is the CEO of Enlivened Studios, and she helps uh leaders ignite their personal genius and then also help them energize their own teams, which she has some seven energy. We'll talk a little bit about that as well. And so just right off the bat, I'm already seeing some of the overlap right there. Um, but we'll talk more about that and then the work that she does with leaders and teams that is inspired by improv, which is so fun. I can't wait to get in. So welcome to the show, Shannon. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes, and what's so fun it too is that um I heard you on, I always like to share just a little bit because networking really is so fun and powerful and has so many benefits. Um, I heard you, I think it was the Sales Maman podcast um with Nikki. Was that it? Or was it story? Was it the Carol Cox podcast? I'm forgetting now.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

No, no worries. No, it was it was probably the Nikki Rash one where she had me on and we had like a little one-on-one coaching session around, yeah, putting together an online course.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yes. And I I heard what you were doing, and then we connected. That's it, right? And then we connected on her a QA call that she had. Yeah. And so there is just so many benefits to, you know, being a part of different groups, listening to podcasts, connecting with people in an authentic way. So I'm I'm grateful that I heard you on that podcast and that we're sitting here today having this conversation. Um, so I want to ask you right off the bat, when I was listening to that original podcast, thinking improv and how you use it in business was so interesting. So, would you just before we get into it, tell us a little bit about what you do with your work at Enliven Studios and then how improv plays into that?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Sure, sure. Yeah, so Enlivened Studios is an experiential facilitation practice. So I'm a facilitator and a trainer, um, and I work with um, I work one-on-one in kind of leadership coaching settings. Um, I also do uh small team and large kind of conference size engagements. And what I do with um with my work is, yeah, I like to say that I ignite the genius of people and their teams, and I do that through applied improv. That's one of kind of a toolbox of tools that I use to bolster collaboration, to um infuse connective and authentic communication into leadership, which God knows, I mean, if the last 18, 19, 24, whatever we are now months have shown us, is we need more humanity in the workplace because we lost sight of that. Um and so, how do we bring more humanity back into the workplace by um making sure people are communicating in ways that are values-based and true, that trust and belonging are you know front and center with how teams and leaders are running their cultures? And recently, what I've kind of been uh focusing a little bit more on is recognizing this need for whether they're exactly startups or companies who are agile and progressive and see the value of resources, putting the resources to their people. So, not necessarily startups, but companies who are sort of startup-like in that way in terms of agility and nimbleness, working with those types of companies because the growth happens so quickly, sometimes the people are forgotten or the onboarding isn't there, right? So people are like they're there for the passion, they're passionate about the product, they totally want to be in on the culture, they're they're they're they're hungry, they're excited. And then what? How do they how can we make sure that they say well, we have to use tools like improv and experiential facilitation practices to get them to get to know one another in a really connective way. So there's more of a fabric and an interdependence than like a siloed workplace, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

It does. You know, I hope he doesn't mind me saying this. It he won't know. I don't think he listens to all of them. But my brother um is an incredible um business owner. He has a men's clothing boutique and he started it from a place of fashion, like a passion for fashion, is what he says. And um, you know, little by little he's kind of realized he can't do everything. He has to have help and delegate. But even I think it's been five years now, and even just this year, he had this aha moment exactly of what you were talking about, Shannon, where he was like um hiring a bunch of people at one time for the holidays. And they were doing all these things, quote unquote, wrong, but it was only because they didn't know what to do, because there was no onboarding process, there was no employee guidebook, which sounds like, oh my gosh, terrible. Like, what's he doing? But it, you know, it was just so focused on growing and exactly do serving the customers. And it was like, yeah, let's hire great people. But then there was that, um, well, how do we get them to stay great and to be great for us? So I love that, I love how you kind of said that. And that that's a niche that very much I can see needing needing some assistance in.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

I mean, oh God, I'm gonna write that down. Stay great. Something about that really resonates because that's so true. You bring these people in and they're rock stars, and you've got them in the right, presumably you've hired them into the right positions. They're set up for success, they're excited to be there. But the infrastructure needs to be there so that they can stay great and that they are set up to be, to continue to be gene to ignite their genius, right? Yes. And to otherwise, your folks that are, whether it's your, you know, folks that are small business owners and founders, they're gonna have a whole different problem on their hand, which is retention. And it's so expensive to get to get folks in the door. I mean, there's such a high price point to the recruiting costs and whatever advertising and marketing you're doing. And then if you do have a small team or a tiny team to onboard them, there's the cost of whatever that person's salary is. And then there's all the training that they might have in place, right? That that's all costly stuff. And it takes like six, six months for somebody to ramp. So how disappointing to go, oh God, we did all this work and now they're leaving.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Exactly. Yes, yes, yes. Um, okay, so I have a couple different questions, and um we'll just see kind of where this takes us because I I just I love so much of what you said on your website about you know leadership. I want to get into that, but first I want to start with this idea of igniting genius, because I have to tell you, Janet, this is something that I feel like I have struggled with. And as a type seven, like finding satisfaction and fulfillment, this totally makes sense. But like finding, like, oh my God, what is my genius? Like, like almost like not so much on a search, but like on a hunt. Like, what is this thing that I'm supposed to be doing? And what are the things that I'm good at? And sometimes that's hard. And I know that so I hear from so many other people who are like, I don't know what I'm good at. And sometimes it's like, well, it's this thing that's so easy that you don't even realize. Um, but how do you help or what are some ways that people can start to gain some clarity on what that genius is for them? And then how do they ignite it?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Love that, love that. And what comes to mind for me is what you just got through saying. And um, you know, there's a kind of a more, there's a term for it, which is um unconscious competence. So, yeah, so often our genius or our purpose or what it is that we're really meant to do is the thing that is the easiest for us, right? But and and I'm still learning about the Enneagram, so you're the expert here. But what I what I I know enough to be quote unquote dangerous in terms of what the seven and the three are, because I've been sort of laser focused on those. But it's um sometimes we have this notion that we have to don't, it has to be something that we work really hard at, and we need certifications and we need validation from other people, and we have to, you know, reach outside ourselves for these things that are that are, you know, kind of our sole purpose or why we're here, whether it's professionally or personally. And oftentimes, no. Like I, for example, take you know, my own personal experience facilitating sessions where people connect with each other and really have a good time and play and have these aha moments. Um, I mean, I wouldn't say they're easy. I spend a lot of time designing them, they're very intentional. And when I get in the room to do it, it's it's just my happy place. It's just what lights me up. And it's like it's almost I get into a state of flow. I don't feel like time has passed. Granted, I have to keep a very close eye on time as a facilitator. But so it's something I need to keep an eye on. But like it's that sense of yes, this is so easy and so free-flowing, and it's just so nourishing. So oftentimes, you know, igniting genius, I like to, I like to say that we are all innate geniuses and that we are all innate creatives. And what systems and families and society and culture tells us is that no, that that that those truths have to be overridden by the shoulds. Like, what does it look like to be to be at a certain level? When you're a certain age, you're supposed to have these three boxes checked because that's what the our culture tells us. When in fact, if we really look inside ourselves and do that work, we recognize, well, no, no, no, I've I've been this the whole time. I just kind of forgot for a while because I was I had this like sheath over me, kind of, you know, disguising what was meant to be. So it's um, I mean, like uh the reality of it is to it in my work, when I talk about igniting genius and discovering purpose, it's really bringing people into an shared experience together where and and um designing it with uh exercises, writing prompts, um, you know, uh tools that kind of generate self-awareness, but in community, so that people kind of have a sense of, wait, I'm having a realization. I just wrote something down, I never thought I would write down. And now I'm going to share it with someone in a very, I'm very um careful with building you know safe environments. I call them brave spaces rather than safe spaces, because there's something in being witnessed when you have those moments of I think this is happening for me, something is shifting. I just realized something because I said it out loud or I wrote it down or I played a game or whatever. And here I am in partnership with somebody or in in a collective group of people that are witnessing this moment. And that is so validating to and whether that ends up being your purpose or your thing, but just having a moment of self-awareness and learning something about yourself in community with other people is can be very, very powerful for somebody to say, I see you. This is happening. And here's a couple other questions that I can ask you to consider, to journal about, to think more about, so that you can continue to uncover and see whether that is what you think it is or whether it's a it's a stepping stone to something else.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Okay, I love what you're saying here because what it sounds like is that it's almost, I'm gonna say impossible, but it's much more difficult to get there when you're just doing it by yourself, like kind of like you can't see the label on your own jar. And so if you can have a guide to ask you the right questions, if you can be around your peers that might be reflecting things back to you or realizing, oh my God, they're struggling with this and or not enjoying it. But I am, I'm doing great and I'm loving it, just kind of having that contrast um can maybe help you see those things in yourself that is very difficult to do when you're just in your head. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

100%, 100%. And and I'll give you kind of a tangible um uh example of this. So that I I run an I run an exercise sometimes, and we're obviously in a virtual space. So let's use that as an example. And I'll pair people off. And the the prompt is, and I usually do this like, you know, halfway through the workshop because it's a little bit more vulnerable. I would never do this at the top of the hour. Okay. Just because it's you know, it can be a little vulnerable, and it depends on the context. And I wouldn't do this with all corporate leadership teams, right? But um, just to give you an example of what we're talking about. So I'll put two people, I'll pair people off. So two people are in each breakout room. And the prompt is for 60 seconds, just tell your partner what you're proud of. What are you proud of? And you know, I'll model this. I'll say, you know, well, I make a really good taco salad. Um, so it could be, you know, silly, or it can be, you know, the more you do it stream of consciousness, I make a really good taco salad. I'm actually a really good mom. I'm pretty patient. I'm a good writer, I'm very persistent with my work. So whatever it is, you just get somebody talking. Now, the prompt for the for the listener after that 60 seconds is up is they say three things back to the per the storyteller. What I heard, what I heard matters to you is dot dot dot. What I'm curious about is dot dot dot and what I want to honor in you. And I've had people come back to the room just like because we live, we you know, we we live so close, we we're so close up to our own lives that it's hard to see what it is that we're saying and doing and what sort of mannerisms we're using when we're gesturing and and all those things, but to be seen and then reflected back is such a powerful thing, especially when you have some kind of strategically designed prompts like that that might instill some sense of genius and purpose and curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

That is so good. And we could do that with anybody. So thank you for that. Um, can I ask you what your personal experience was? Maybe having, and you've probably had several ahas over the course of your life about like, oh, I'm really good at this, but especially with the with what you're doing now with your work um with improv and teens and leadership. What was the what were the things or the thing maybe that had you kind of be like, oh my gosh, I'm really good at running workshops? Or like this improv thing is so my jam and it it really works and I'm good at it. Like, how did all of that kind of come together? I'm just curious of that specific origin story.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah. So uh, well, I'm an only child, and the reason I bring that up at the forefront is because I spent a lot of time kind of keeping myself busy in creative ways. So there was, I'm sort of a, you know, I've taken some of these, these, these assessments and tests, and the Enneagram certainly ties into this, and you'll you'll hear why why I'm considering the three. I'm a performer, a performer. I just always have been. Being on, if I could just be on a stage with or without a microphone, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't need to be a big stage, it doesn't need to be a big, you know, 600, 700,000-person venue. I just being on stage or in front of a group of people is um is my happy place. And so when I was in corporate, which I was for many, many years, that wasn't a stage necessarily, but it was leading um strategy sessions with clients, um, delivering business pitches. Those are all forms of performance. And so I really loved that. And when I left my job in 2018 and decided to figure out what was next and improvise my way into figuring that out, I went back and took improv classes at a school in San Francisco. And um, and I'd done that in the past, and I just went back to that because I thought, God, I missed that. I miss that creativity and that performance. And I'll tell you what, I saw the, I saw the connections between improv and life and business almost immediately because the tenets of improv, people think improv is like highly unstructured, and people just get on a stage and make something up. When in fact, improv is highly, highly structured. There's a number of practices and tenets of improv that masterful improv. Supervisors need to really get a hold of in order to get to that place where they let go. So that there's a lot of practice there. So tenants like yes and and make your partner look good. See the offers as gifts, like those things I went, oh my God, that's not just on the on the stage, like that is in life and business and relationship. So those were like the the sparks were flying and the you know the angels were singing and all the all the light bulbs went off then. Um and so I just started to kind of figure out what would that mean and how might that take shape and what what what do I do with this information? And quickly discovered that there was actually an entire industry called the applied improv industry. There's a global network of people who do this for a living, whether it's in education or healthcare or business or working with people who deal with chronic PTSD. Um, I mean, there's even work going on right now where applied improvisers are using their work to get people to get police officers or people in authority and um civilians in underserved communities to talk to each other in a way that's actually meaningful and effective versus you know the opposite, which is clashing and and violence and all the things that we know are true. Uh I hope I'm answering your question, but I should. You are, yes. Okay, this is great. That was the light bulb moment. Um that was the light bulb moment, was that aha moment in in the theater when I was in San Francisco. And and then from there it was kind of figuring out, well, how are other people doing this? And oh my God, there's books about this. And what how does how does this take shape for me? And I'm obviously, you know, we are solopreneurs, so it's a work in progress. And I've got my dream boards for 2022, so we'll see how it goes. But though that was my light bulb moment, was when I recognized that I understand leadership because I've been in corporate for so long, and I understand performance and creativity and art and being an artist, and seeing that those two are can be inextricably linked if we if we facilitate it and nurture it in the right way.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yes. And I loved what you said about the kind of the benefits that transfer to corporate, the yes and mentality, and then like making your partner look good, or your boss, or your teammate, or whoever it is, um, look good. Was there something I missed? I was like, oh gosh, these are good. Was it what what would you can say are the other benefits that translate or transfer over to corporate?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah, another one. So um there's a there's a term called offers, and obviously we all know what offers are, but in the the improv context, an offer is anything that one performer or a group of performers are giving to each other in order to make the scene. So if you and I are on a stage together and we have no script, obviously, and um I walk over to you and say, you know, hey, hey, what's up, Janet? We are so late. We have to get, we've got to get to, you know, we're both late for work. I can't believe it. How did we we stayed out so late last night? I feel so embarrassed about, okay, so now that's an offer. I've just given you the offer that you are Janet. We are maybe roommates, we're friends, obviously. There might have been a party last night. And so, as my my co-pilot in this scene, you say yes to those offers and see them as gifts. Everything in the moment that I'm giving to you is a gift in terms of an endowment and how we use that information to progress our story together. And so I always say when I do my workshops, like offers are everywhere. Um, they are in the verbal and nonverbal cues that we might experience with our partners or our children. Offers are um in the way that the guy at the grocery store who's bagging your groceries interacts with you, or maybe looks glum and needs needs a little compliment or something about them so that you can help lift them up. Offers are are everywhere. So I like to talk about that too. And then there's a lot about just being in the moment. Because if you can imagine being an as an improviser, how in the world are you going to create a scene if you're checked out?

unknown 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

If you're if you're or if you're focusing on me. Well, my next line is gonna be this funny thing that's just gonna light up the room, you know, and it's like, or not, my team, my partner, my partner might have a totally different, might say something that's about grief or a breakup or something that shifts the story in a way that I never would have expected. So I have to be really mindful and present so that I am listening to you and picking up on whatever it is you're giving to me.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

That's such a good one. Because how many times do we, you know, outside improv, any any relationship, any conversation, tend to be like, what am I gonna say next? In a coaching call with a client, in a conversation with your partner, a teammate, a kid, yeah, it's like, what am I gonna say next? So I love, I love that one. What would you say for you personally? And if it's one of these that's fine too, but if there's anything else to add that has been the most um like the biggest benefit for for you and your life or the work that you do picking up a like an improv practice or getting into that? Because that's something that I've thought about. So this is a selfish question, but I've thought about like, oh yeah, I hear so many people rave about their improv experiences. What what has it done for you? What has it allowed you to do?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Oh, so many things. Uh yeah, I mean, to be honest, yes and can kind of get me into trouble a little bit because because of being a three or a seven, sometimes it's like there are times to say no. There are times for boundaries, right? So I would say yes and has been hugely beneficial and helpful for me because it took me out of it it when I left corporate with really no plan, I just was like, yeah, yeah, I'll meet that person for coffee. Sure, I'll sign up for that course. Okay, I'll try this thing. Yeah, maybe I'll just build a website and see if people come. So it's and I I posted something on Instagram about this yesterday. To be an entrepreneur or to be a founder or anybody in a small business that is trying to establish what it is that they do, there's it it can't not be improvised because you have we have we as builders and makers and creators, we have to try things and we have to sort of do it unabashedly. And sometimes that means and and speaking from my experience, I have an accountability group, I have people who I check in with. Like there has to be that, you know, that net so that you don't we aren't doing this alone. Uh it's just so much of that yes and. I mean, think about how we market, how we, you know, podcasts. I mean, oh my goodness, you're just you just said yes to throwing a podcast together and and trying something you've probably never done before. And there's so much beauty and power in that. Um so yes and is a huge one. I don't think I would be where I am now if it wasn't if it wasn't for that. And then as far as mindfulness and and presence and listening, that is just a practice for life. Um none of this is stuff I've mastered, but it's definitely in my in my wheelhouse for things I've got top of mind for how to continue to be here.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah, and that's a for all works in progress. Um what I I would love to hear just a little bit about that transition or that jump leap from corporate to your own business. Like what was the thing that made you say, okay, I'm ready for this, or I'm doing it even if I don't feel ready? Uh, what was that experience like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

So um I worked for the same company for quite a number of years, like 15 years, which is pretty unheard of these days. Oh yes, yes. Um, and I so you know, during the that's a long time to be with one company. And so I, you know, I had a number of different roles. And um at the kind of the peak, I was um senior, I was a vice president of client um strategy. And it was great. It was great. It, you know, I I was able to quote unquote reform, I was building strategies, I was leading a team, I was traveling, all these things. And I had two small boys at the time. And I said to my boss at one point, I think it was in 2016, I sat with him and I said, I can't, I can't do this 60 hour work week, like taking phones, you know, taking phone calls to Asia Pacific on the sideline of a soccer game. Like this is not working for me. And he, I to this day, he's a good friend of mine, and he said, Don't leave, don't leave. I think I have another opportunity for you. And and I took it, and the opportunity, get ready, given everything I just told you about myself, was financial operations manager.

unknown 31:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Okay, all right. Which definitely allowed me for like lots of flexibility and I was able to work from home and all those things, and was a total soul-crushing job. I mean, I was like in spreadsheets day in and day out, and I was like chasing people for revenue, and I lived in Salesforce, and it was just like blah. And so anyway, it served me very well until it didn't. And it didn't. It like, it was like a it wasn't like a gradual didn't. It was like, what am I doing? I'm sitting at my kitchen counter, like we're you know, on my keyboard. She and it just it wasn't me. It wasn't me at all. So um, so I left. I, you know, I talked to my husband, of course, at great detail, and we looked at our finances and we tried to figure out what that was gonna look like and knew that there was risk there. And um, and my husband, thank God, is very um super, super uh supportive. And, you know, we discussed what that plan would look like if I left if I left the corporate world and tried my tried to go out on my own. And and when when people ask me this question, I'm very careful because I want to make sure that this doesn't come across as well. I I guess what I want to do is recognize my privilege. I want to recognize my privilege because it's important to do that. Not everybody can or should leave their job. There are ways to fulfill your passion and do what you are here to do without taking a drastic step like leaving your job, whether that's because it's just not the right thing for you or because it's not available to you. So I just want to take that, kind of make that note because it's an important one.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Well, and that's a great transition into my next question, in that um you I think we do sometimes romanticize, over-romanticize, working for ourselves, flexibility, having our own, being our own boss. And there's uh in my experience, um, there is also a lot of difficulty and like mind, it's a whole nother set of um just kind of uh roadblocks sometimes that we'll put in front of myself and and challenges too, just different, different kinds of challenges. Um and and there's so much good that it's not all you know unicorns and rainbows in my experience and from what I hear from others too. So for you, what has been one of the biggest challenges stepping out on your own and promoting and selling your own business?

SPEAKER_00 34:13

I it's such a relevant question because I I I yesterday I I gave my I um I took what I called a retreat day for my, but it was a day just at home. It was raining out, and I just spent the day loving up on my business. Yeah. So this is top of mind for me. Um a lot of it has to do with mindset. Uh, I think a big hurdle. So one of my goal or my biggest goal this year was to take my business from a hobby to a business. And it wasn't a hobby before, I was still a business, but I but just to really systematize and get serious about um tracking my income and you know, treating like a business, like acting like a CEO, be being a CEO of my business. And I did that in a lot of ways. Um, and you know, talking about price and value is hard. Um and uh it's been and continues to be kind of, you know, I had my I got my sticky notes around with all the things to remind me that I am that I am valued and that I am enough and that I have everything I need. When I go into a mode of doubt um or a mode of scarcity mindset, uh I grasp outside myself for validation. So um that's really been tripping me up this past year of when I get into panic mode. Um I go to books and experts and people whose, you know, my idea, my ideas must be in somebody else's brain. Like that must be where they are because they don't feel like they're here. Yes. And yeah, and that can just really bring me down and bum me out, and it makes me um ineffective and it it uh hampers my ability to show up as me, which is you know, which is ultimately what my clients are buying. They're not there's there's no company. I mean, there is in live in studios, but like for your for your listeners, I'm jokingly like looking behind myself around the room, like, hello, is anybody here? Okay, nope, it's just me, you know. Yeah, yeah. So that can be that can be empowering sometimes, and also like ugly, you know, there are there are definitely days to your point where it's it's it's it's more mindset, I would say, than it is actual realities of obstacles.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yes, that's I that's so spot on. I feel that, especially when you're talking about well, there must be something, an answer in a book or a course. I need to buy another course to figure this out. So it's like, why can't I just sit down and do it? Like, I yeah, I I very much have and still sometimes do catch myself like, oh, I need 10 books here to tell me what to do next. And it never is, the answer is never in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Or or can you relate to this? Because I just went through this recently. I look back through some journals and some like, you know, some think some thinking and planning that I'd done at the end of last year, just to see, like, well, oh, okay, how did I go into 2021? Got it. How am I going into 2022? And it's all the same mantras and the same value proposition and the same language and the same client descriptions, they're they're the same. Like I keep looking back thinking, oh, well, I might these things must have changed. No, it's the same because when I write from my heart in those quiet moments of who I am and why I'm doing what I'm doing and who I'm in service of, those things don't change. So we're kidding ourselves to to think that that that those like, and I'm not talking about the ways that we that we might do our maybe it's maybe it's coaching, maybe it's a course. I'm not talking about that like outside stuff of how it actually is executed. But the why, the why, uh every journal I I look back through and every like sticky note or every thought that I've had or conversation, it's the same. So it's it's just a it was a it was a it continues to be every year, every whatever, whenever I look back at that type of stuff, I'm like, what am I doing? I'm I'm doing the same thing. The purpose is the same. So going to a book or a course or a person is like, for what? Yeah. I mean, it's it's all important and it's it's important to learn. I'm not discounting, but but when it's in that like scarcity mind, that thing, that's what I'm talking about. That's that's the type of learning I'm talking about. I think you are too.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yes, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Nothing against learning. And like if somebody else can teach you how to do something quicker than what you can, but figuring it out for yourself, piecing it together, all for that. But you're right, I find it's like, why am I doing this? Is it because I I'm intentional and it's like I've decided this is what I need to learn to do this thing, or is it like, oh, I'm looking for something in here, I'm not sure what it is. So bubble up. Um, I wonder how many of us have had the same experience that you have had with your journals. That would be interesting because um I was like laughing inside because I was like, oh my gosh, I do that too. I've done that. And it's like, wow, it's so interesting. Why and it's like, well, that's not good. That's not that's not good enough. Yeah, there has to be more, has to be something else. And so it's like, gosh, how much could I have accomplished had I just like went all in on that idea or that thought or that mission or whatever? So that is a great reminder for myself. And I know it's gonna land on some others. Now you do some things that we were just talking um, that we are recording this early in the morning for you, and you have a morning routine ritual that kind of helps you maybe oh, not not spiral or spin, kind of ground you a little bit. Would you be willing to share yours, what that looks like for you?

unknown 40:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Uh it started, my morning practice started when I read um Julia Cameron's book. Um The Artist Way. Thank you. The Artist Way. That's when it started. That's so good. I know. In fact, it's kind of on my list of it might be something I embarked on again this year. Yes, yeah, reader. Yes, that one is a reader. Yes, yes. And in fact, wouldn't it be fun to do it in community with other women like our people? Yes. Anyway, side note.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Um idea, yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah, yeah. Uh so that's sort of what got me going because it's all about the morning pages and doing it before the day starts. Well, you know, you have small children too. So at the time, the day starts at six. So, you know, it's not like I had a leisurely morning of waking up at nine o'clock and doing it with my coffee. So that sort of started to ingrain in me, like waking up, waking up early. So, and I and I, I mean, obviously I miss days and I don't always do it on the weekends, but here's my routine. I set my alarm, but often I wake up now because it's just in my body. I wake up at 5:30. Um, I come downstairs um into my, I come downstairs into my office. And my office is is really my my happy place. It's um I I made it beautiful. I've got candles in here, it's got a nice view outside. Um, it's just laid out in very intentionally to generate creativity and um exploration. So I come in here and it's dark, and I light my candles, and I've got my incense and my nice little smells going, and I play some kind of yoga, zenny music, and I bring out my my journal. Um, and I journal, I still do my morning pages, three pages of just kind of stream of consciousness. Sometimes that ends up being a bulleted list of things I need to do. Sometimes it's just about, and sometimes it's really deep and dark, and it's stuff that I need to figure out. Uh always with coffee. Um and after I do that for about uh, I don't know, 40 minutes or so, I have a chair over here with a blanket and everything else, and I meditate for um, I don't know, 20, 25 minutes. Um, if I don't meditate in the morning like that, sometimes I can't get myself to do it in the afternoon. It just the days to, yeah, to see you nodding. It sounds like you can resonate with that. It just gets busy. And I and I do, because I really want to make sure I do meditate each day. So sometimes I'll I you know, if I if I can get it into my evening or my late afternoon, I will. Um yeah, and that's kind of it. I also love, I love people like Mark Nepo. Um, if you've read the past to the um Pack to Awakening, which is like a daily uh book where he has like a daily reflection. Um I love people like Rob Bell. Um sometimes I'll I'll tap into those guys and kind of read something from their books to generate some ideas or set me up for the day. I also have quite a few card decks, um, like a Carolyn Mace card deck that I pull from, um, or I have what's her name? Um Louise, Louise Hay. I have a Louise Hay. Yeah. So sometimes I'll pull pull those. So it's it's like a combination of self reflection, spirituality, and um creativity.

unknown 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah. It sets me up for the day often.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Gosh, I was just like zenning out so much hearing. And you know. it feels so good when you when you do something like that, when you kind of find that practice and that space or create the space that allows you to do that. Because I notice um when I when I do it, it's like the mindset things that you were talking about still come up, but it's not as loud and it's not as harsh or it's like I can bounce back really easily. Or like comparison or just feeling all over the place, like working on a million things but not being productive. But it's like when I am doing those things, I feel calm and productive and at peace. And so there is so many benefits. And then that hopefully spills over to clients and my community rather than like frazzle. So that is so great. You know, just since we're like kind of nerding out a little bit because everybody I love Robelle, Louise Hayes or yeah Hay, however you say her name, love her too. And then there is a book called Simple Abundance by Sarah Van Bretnock. And it's kind of I'm it's kind of a light here, but I got this from a friend and it's um she has a lot of um like kind of the artist way vibes, which is very like she's a writer and kind of old school a little bit like um you know I don't know I don't know how to describe it like it's just very like oh writing from a coffee shop in Paris or um it's kind of nostalgic a little bit. Yes. Thank you. That's the word yes and um just talking about yeah happiness and purpose and that's a good one too. I like I like those devotion ones. Okay I want to get into a little bit about the Enneagram now and it's going to be fun because I know you're kind of now exploring two different types. I would love just to hear a little bit about your experience and there's never any right or wrong answers here. It's about our own experience but initially you had been thinking oh my gosh I'm a type seven maybe wing six here which is what I am right now. Yes very much identify with the wing six it's like um I want to have fun but I want to be safe doing it I want to be careful but I'm here for the party but if but let's be careful about it. And so I just initially I would love to hear like what about the seven really jumped out at you as like oh my gosh I can really relate to this energy maybe both the strengths and some of the like the shadow parts yeah yeah it's it's that idea of of doing just constantly doing having my what's the cliche and my finger in all the pies right like I'm I oftentimes have I mean if you just look at my computer I've got all the browser windows open because I'm gonna I I will eventually get to reading all those things because they're all important.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

And at the same time I'm going to be working on three different projects for five different clients um and designing a workshop for you know my drop-in people and I have to do all my business development and I have to you know um sign up for these things and buy these things and see the art show in the city and make sure that my friends are all this and that. And I love it. Yeah I love it. Like some people would you know look at that and go oh my God like that just sound just drains me even thinking about it. I love it. And I love knowing a little bit about everything but not everything about everything. So you know you know I would be fairly decent in a game of trivial pursuit but if it is you know if someone asked me to give them you know a 30 minute diatribe on the you know the meaning of psych psychological safety for example I would I'd be like I know the highlights yeah right I know I know I know enough you know so I'm not and I I'm still learning but I I'm not like a five at all where I really get into one subject really deep. I just know enough about everything or not.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Yeah. Yeah do you so do you find yourself do you relate to the um sometimes it is like the busyness and the collection of experience for the joy of it and sometimes sevens can do those actions the same thing but it's a kind of like running away from anxiety or be busy so I don't feel hard things. Does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Yes yes and that that would be that darker side yeah yeah yeah something I've realized about myself in the last couple of years is uh because I've been doing work with myself and on myself which is something I had never done before and this is where I don't know about the seven and the three but what I've realized is that I don't have I don't really have an um a language around my emotions my my I have a mentor coach um who I work with and she'll tell you the story and she'll say how does that make you feel and it's almost like she's talking to me in a different language I don't and I'll tell her action words well you know I did this and that how does it make you feel well I mean you know this came of that and it's it's always action and doing but I don't have a word for and she'll say well it sounds like that makes you really sad it sounds like that is scary for you. It sounds like you're feeling shameful and when she says it yes that is what I'm feeling but it never dawns on me to use words like that because I just don't have a language around emotions. And so I think that's why I identify with the seven I think is there's so much running around and doing and showing up and being all lights and fun and party time. But when somebody asks me how I'm feeling I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Okay and this is why I love having these conversations and why I love the Enneagram so much because it it makes you feel less crazy. Because what you described is exactly my experience and I don't know if you're a three or a seven but it's just like wow somebody else feels this way. I actually got a dictionary of emotions a few years ago to be like okay well there's other words other than happy and sad. Like let's explore those like what are those? And I do the same thing and um my boyfriend he is a two and all up in the feelings and he's also a therapist. So like very good with understanding feelings and he'll you know ask well how you know how are you feeling right now about that or about a conflict we had or anything and I'm like I don't know I don't know how I'm feeling I'm gonna have to think about it. Or because I'm I my mind goes it goes through my mind and I'm like thinking how should I be feeling like what's the right feeling and um so that's really interesting that that's your experience too and that's that's very common for sevens very common.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

What about I I know recently you were thinking you were exploring with your coach and was kind of landed on like hmm there's also a lot about the three that's resonating what are the pieces of that that feel true for you so this actually just happened yesterday or just before yeah so it's very new and she said to me it was really interesting because we were talking about my kind of dreaming and I say dreaming and scheming right for 2022 and I was talking about that and she said to me she asked me really interesting questions she said why do you why do you want to continue to grow your business and at first I was like that's a silly question obviously it's because I've you know because it means something to me and I want to make an income from you know I had all these things that were and she was okay great she said let's write those down and I wrote down money and I wrote down and then and beyond I was like uh and she said well creativity is creativity like having a creative outlet yeah yeah yeah that's important she's okay write that down and she said performance does performance resonate with you and I said yeah she said because the way you show up for your clients it's kind of like performing right and then she said when I say to you Shannon that you might want to grow your business so that you can look successful how does that resonate with you and I was like oh my god you nailed it so anyway we started to play around with this idea of performing as a CEO playing the role of a businesswoman um what does that look like and am I am I am I messing with my capacity? Like do I have do I have the capacity to actually do and am I wearing myself down by living behind you know some sort of facade of being what successful might look like to me. Yeah and and I'm not there yet I don't know if that's like a hundred percent what I feel like but she definitely kind of tapped into something there. She gave a really here's a great example and um what resonated for me she said she said she and her boyfriend went to a show recently and there was a great band playing and she said one guy was a bassist. She said he was playing he was amazing very talented bassist but the way he was playing the bass was very performative. He like was trying to look like a bassist you know like he had the I don't know he I'm just imagining he probably had like a bluesy thing he was really like looking like he was playing the bass. And she and her boyfriend are both Enneagram people and I guess her boyfriend looked at her and goes he's obviously a three because he's performing as a bassist and he doesn't need to do that because he is a bassist. Like what's he doing? You don't have to perform like one you are one and that resonated with me. Yeah and I was like so she was saying to me you know as you go into 22 just be cautious that you're keeping an eye on your boundaries and your capacity because you don't need to perform like a CEO you're a CEO you got a business going just do it just do it and don't worry about making it into a performance.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Yeah like doing it in your own way what is your experience or relationship with failure like how do you decide if you're gonna try something new and then if it doesn't work out how does that affect you I'm okay with failure. I'm okay with failure I don't like the word failure so maybe I'm not as okay as that I mean yeah nobody's like oh god I love fail all day yeah yeah interesting yeah you know what what I it's um threes and sevens it is a common not mistyping but common kind of like so they have a lot of similarities and one of them is one of the biggest ones is the the assertive energy that they have with our type eights they're in a group that are very future focused kind of like what's next energy um I want to go far and I want to go fast and even though three specifically are in the feeling center of intelligence, they're the ones that tend to repress their feelings out of the two and the four. And so they can look a lot like the seven because of the feelings avoidant. But what I find so so helpful sometimes and and hopefully continues to be true for you is that just like your coach did kind of ask you some questions that you would have never asked yourself before and thought about some things and really reflected on like why you're doing something or hey like maybe I'll be aware of this. And so it's like whatever number you are or however long it takes you to to figure it out, it's like so much um so it can be so eye-opening and so helpful along the way. And um so that that's kind of that's kind of cool. And I like that you're like maybe I'm this um one thing that I always say can can be really helpful is understanding your stress arrow. Are you very familiar with those? A little bit my my stress arrow is two like I go to two or six is that right a seven um a seven actually goes to a one in stress where they are can be like all over the place and so free but then in a moment of stress it's like controlling everything that they that really doesn't matter but they feel like it feels good to be in control of. And so kind of exploring like how do you see that show up for you? Does that resonate? And then for a three they go to a nine in stress where they're they're human doings, they're workaholics and then when they exhaust the stress defense coping strategies for their type three they move and take on those of a nine which tend to be kind of checking out vegging out zoning out in front of Netflix or or you know whatever and kind of do the opposite of work work. It's they kind of numb out. So that's interesting to kind of explore too and I've I've heard from several typing clients that when they start to explore their stress arrow that gives so much clarity. So that might help you or it just might um uncover some new questions and reflections for your morning routine even. Yeah yeah that's awesome thank you I already I already have some like hmm yeah yeah it's fun just to like how how do I show up how do I see that so um listen I have some rapid fire questions for you I have so many more questions I had written down but we are already almost at an hour and I didn't mean to take this much time of your morning. So before we get into the last few rapid fire questions, tell our listeners where do you hang out? Where can we learn more from you and about the work that you do thank you thank you.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

So I'm at enlivenedstudios.com that's with an ED just in case I don't want to articulate that enlivenstudios.com and uh on LinkedIn it's pretty LinkedIn and Instagram is where I hang out and I have the same handle on both of them which is Shannon Dean Hughes. So my my um maiden name is in there Shannon Dean Hughes.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

And I also have a uh a free download um for your listeners it's called tips and tricks for how to enliven up your gatherings so there's some kind of um facilitation expertise in there a couple of exercises and just things to keep in mind when you're trying to bring together folks for um genius ignition uh and that is at enlivenstudios.com slash download okay all right we'll absolutely link that up too that sounds so good and then before we sign off I appreciate all that you shared you've been so open and just so much good stuff. I'll ask some rapid fire questions. They don't have to be rapid fire answers but I'll try not to respond. What is something right now that you are learning and it can be anything somebody said Italian the other day it doesn't have to be work related but can be anything new that you're learning.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Right now I am learning about the Enneagram actually and uh another thing is conscious leadership. There's a book called The 15 commitments of conscious leadership and it is chock full of amazing skills and practices for how to humanize business and to be here as a human. So I really want to dive into that in next year and practice what's in it because it's it's old.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

So good.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

What about something that you are unlearning I'm unlearning and I just finished a book called 4,000 weeks and it's about um time it's about time and I highly recommend it for you and your readers it's an easy read and it's great on audible what I'm trying to unlearn is to be a victim to time. Time doesn't owe me and I don't need to keep pointing at time and and blaming it for all the things. So I really want to be kind of the owner of my own time and recognize that I have what I need as far as time goes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:13

Oh my gosh that sounds so good. I'm gonna add that to my Amazon already long book list but that sounds like that sounds like one that I literally need legitimately need. And then last question Shannon what is so there's this concept of like your best life that we see a lot like live your best life or um why aren't you living to your fullest potential or how to live to your fullest potential what does that look like for you Shannon?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

What does your highest fullest potential look like my highest fullest potential uh my highest fullest potential looks like it's somewhere at the where where a couple things meet. It's at the junction of a couple things and one is creative I I I and this is another focus of mine for next year because I feel like I've left some of my practices behind but to be in my fullest potential means to show up as an innate creative so that I can do it for myself and model it for my community. My highest potential also looks like boundaries and making sure that I can simmer down and be quiet with my family and people that I love. And I guess the third thing that would go into my highest potential is just stand in my value, man, because and I hope this resonates for your listeners because we have to keep showing up for our work and whoever we're in service of because the world needs us and the only way to do that is to totally recognize our value stand in it embody it share it with other people and I'm not saying that as an expert I'm saying that because if I say it out loud I'm gonna live it and uh that's how we that's how we achieve and accomplish our fullest potential that I I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

Thank you. That's so so good. And thank you like I said for all that you share Channel this has been really really good. I selfishly I'm like oh I got so much from that but I know that our listeners did as well so I appreciate you being here um and I always I've been trying to ask before we sign off is there anything else that you would like to share that I haven't asked you or last words to make this interview feel complete.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

No I don't think so I think we've covered I think we've covered a lot come and join my community um I've got events coming up in the new year that some of them are drop in. I'm I do coaching I do all sorts of stuff so I would love for your listeners to check me out and connect with me. I'm an open book and I love meeting new people.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

Yes and I hope that they will as well connect with Shannon let her know what you got from this episode. And um with that Shannon we will be um this will be coming out in the beginning of the year. So um welcome to the 2022 and um I'm sure we'll be seeing you around thanks so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

Thank you thank you